Re: [Discuss] Post issue with bootable linux

[Jerry Feldman]

Since it is not my system, but I don't think that the system is UEFI. I
probably won't be going to that person's home in the near future since his
system is up and running.

I have an older atom-bssed netbook without UEFI, I'll try to reproduce.

What is really strange is that it does not recognize the F2 or F12.

I'm going to do some additional analysis because it may show up at an
installfest.


Sent from Galaxy S8 Android

Jerry Feldman 
Boston Linux and Unix
http://www.blu.org
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6B B6E7


On Fri, May 4, 2018, 8:35 AM Mike Small  wrote:

> Jerry Feldman  writes:
>
> > I have a guy with an older system
> > Core2 duo CPU
> > 4GB ddr2 scramble
> >
> > Dell motherboard
> > The problem is when I boot with a known good bootable Linux usb
>
> Known good bootable on BIOS only systems too, or would you have always
> UEFI booted this stick before?
>
> > Ubuntu, Fedora the system fails to post.
>
> Fails to post as in doesn't get past the POST? Any beeps? If it's really
> failing during or before POST that would rule out anything software
> related, from boot loader on down.
>
> > 1. Dell logo comes up
> > 2. Press F12 (boot) or F2 (setup) the light flashes on the usb and the
> > system is otherwise frozen.
> > 3. Neither the setup nor boot menu come up
> >
> > However, when I use a bootable gparted USB it comes up fine. When I go to
> > the boot menu and select the usb, it boots.
>
> This would contradict it being a POST or pre-POST failure unless it was
> by chance.
>
> I dunno, I've had an old laptop whose keyboard would fail unpredictably
> in ways that seemed to be related to total power draw. It wouldn't get
> far trying to run Windows 2000, but OpenBSD or Slackware with a
> lightweight wm would run for hours at a time with all or almost all the
> keys working. I supposed that some component or circuit had gotten where
> voltages were in some ambiguous area that was somehow a function of
> current or else heat was changing physical distances between parts in
> tricky little ways that started to matter over time.  Maybe your
> friend's machine has some kind of power budget issue that it's getting
> crankier about over time, and one of your USB sticks draws current a bit
> differently than the other.
>
> --
> Mike Small
> sma...@sdf.org
>
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Re: [Discuss] Post issue with bootable linux

[Mike Small]

Jerry Feldman  writes:

> I have a guy with an older system
> Core2 duo CPU
> 4GB ddr2 scramble
>
> Dell motherboard
> The problem is when I boot with a known good bootable Linux usb

Known good bootable on BIOS only systems too, or would you have always
UEFI booted this stick before?

> Ubuntu, Fedora the system fails to post.

Fails to post as in doesn't get past the POST? Any beeps? If it's really
failing during or before POST that would rule out anything software
related, from boot loader on down.

> 1. Dell logo comes up
> 2. Press F12 (boot) or F2 (setup) the light flashes on the usb and the
> system is otherwise frozen.
> 3. Neither the setup nor boot menu come up
>
> However, when I use a bootable gparted USB it comes up fine. When I go to
> the boot menu and select the usb, it boots.

This would contradict it being a POST or pre-POST failure unless it was
by chance.

I dunno, I've had an old laptop whose keyboard would fail unpredictably
in ways that seemed to be related to total power draw. It wouldn't get
far trying to run Windows 2000, but OpenBSD or Slackware with a
lightweight wm would run for hours at a time with all or almost all the
keys working. I supposed that some component or circuit had gotten where
voltages were in some ambiguous area that was somehow a function of
current or else heat was changing physical distances between parts in
tricky little ways that started to matter over time.  Maybe your
friend's machine has some kind of power budget issue that it's getting
crankier about over time, and one of your USB sticks draws current a bit
differently than the other.

-- 
Mike Small
sma...@sdf.org
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Re: [Discuss] Post issue with bootable linux

[Matthew Gillen]

On 5/1/2018 11:53 AM, Jerry Feldman wrote:
> I have a guy with an older system
> Core2 duo CPU
> 4GB ddr2 scramble
> 
> Dell motherboard
> The problem is when I boot with a known good bootable Linux usb
> Ubuntu, Fedora the system fails to post.
> 1. Dell logo comes up
> 2. Press F12 (boot) or F2 (setup) the light flashes on the usb and the
> system is otherwise frozen.
> 3. Neither the setup nor boot menu come up
> 
> However, when I use a bootable gparted USB it comes up fine. When I go to
> the boot menu and select the usb, it boots.
> 

I once had a system that had a strange incompatibility with most
kernels, but there was a command line option (maybe an iommu related
one?) that let me boot all kernels.  Figured it out by checking the
motherboard/chipsets and found a known issue with kernels at the time.

If I had to guess, I'd say gparted uses a kernel that isn't set up to
probe anything beyond the necessities (keyboard, disks, mouse and
display), where the end-user distros like Ubuntu and Fedora have a
kernel that is set up to probe for everything that might be available,
and you're hitting some chipset-specific issue.

Thanks,
Matt
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Re: [Discuss] Post issue with bootable linux

[Jerry Feldman]

That system predates secure boot. I did look through the bios before doing
anything. These days that is one of the first things I looked for. The
issue presents itself immediately before post.


Sent from Galaxy S8 Android

Jerry Feldman 
Boston Linux and Unix
http://www.blu.org
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6B B6E7


On Tue, May 1, 2018, 6:17 PM Derek Martin  wrote:

> On Tue, May 01, 2018 at 03:53:21PM +, Jerry Feldman wrote:
> > I have a guy with an older system
> > Core2 duo CPU
> > 4GB ddr2 scramble
> >
> > Dell motherboard
> > The problem is when I boot with a known good bootable Linux usb
> > Ubuntu, Fedora the system fails to post.
> > 1. Dell logo comes up
> > 2. Press F12 (boot) or F2 (setup) the light flashes on the usb and the
> > system is otherwise frozen.
> > 3. Neither the setup nor boot menu come up
> >
> > However, when I use a bootable gparted USB it comes up fine. When I go to
> > the boot menu and select the usb, it boots.
>
> I'm not sure but I think you may be having trouble with the
> combination of UEFI, secure boot, and GPT partitioning (vs. MBR). I
> have a vague notion that some combinations of those things don't play
> well together, but I can't recall the specifics.
>
> --
> Derek D. Martinhttp://www.pizzashack.org/   GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02
> -=-=-=-=-
> This message is posted from an invalid address.  Replying to it will
> result in
> undeliverable mail due to spam prevention.  Sorry for the inconvenience.
>
>
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Re: [Discuss] Post issue with bootable linux

[Derek Martin]

On Tue, May 01, 2018 at 03:53:21PM +, Jerry Feldman wrote:
> I have a guy with an older system
> Core2 duo CPU
> 4GB ddr2 scramble
> 
> Dell motherboard
> The problem is when I boot with a known good bootable Linux usb
> Ubuntu, Fedora the system fails to post.
> 1. Dell logo comes up
> 2. Press F12 (boot) or F2 (setup) the light flashes on the usb and the
> system is otherwise frozen.
> 3. Neither the setup nor boot menu come up
> 
> However, when I use a bootable gparted USB it comes up fine. When I go to
> the boot menu and select the usb, it boots.

I'm not sure but I think you may be having trouble with the
combination of UEFI, secure boot, and GPT partitioning (vs. MBR). I
have a vague notion that some combinations of those things don't play
well together, but I can't recall the specifics.

-- 
Derek D. Martinhttp://www.pizzashack.org/   GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02
-=-=-=-=-
This message is posted from an invalid address.  Replying to it will result in
undeliverable mail due to spam prevention.  Sorry for the inconvenience.

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Re: [Discuss] Post issue with bootable linux

[Bill Horne]

Jerry,

Open the box and remove the BIOS battery for a couple of minutes, and 
then replace it. If the behavior continues, you have a proprietary BIOS 
that I can't help with. If it comes back to "new computer" defaults, the 
problem is fixed: the machine had a CMOS-infector virus.


HTH.

Bill


On 5/1/2018 11:53 AM, Jerry Feldman wrote:

I have a guy with an older system
Core2 duo CPU
4GB ddr2 scramble

Dell motherboard
The problem is when I boot with a known good bootable Linux usb
Ubuntu, Fedora the system fails to post.
1. Dell logo comes up
2. Press F12 (boot) or F2 (setup) the light flashes on the usb and the
system is otherwise frozen.
3. Neither the setup nor boot menu come up

However, when I use a bootable gparted USB it comes up fine. When I go to
the boot menu and select the usb, it boots.


Sent from Galaxy S8 Android

Jerry Feldman 
Boston Linux and Unix
http://www.blu.org
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6B B6E7
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--
Bill Horne

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Re: [Discuss] Post issue with bootable linux

[Jerry Feldman]

The other problem is that he forgot his passwords and also the gui failed
so he was only connabd line
With gparted I was able to reset his passwords, and manually do an upgrade
to UBUNTU 16.04LTS.
So he is now up and running, but I'm still at a loss why the system fails
to pay into the setup or boot menus with the bootable usbs.


Sent from Galaxy S8 Android

Jerry Feldman 
Boston Linux and Unix
http://www.blu.org
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6B B6E7


On Tue, May 1, 2018, 11:53 AM Jerry Feldman  wrote:

> I have a guy with an older system
> Core2 duo CPU
> 4GB ddr2 scramble
>
> Dell motherboard
> The problem is when I boot with a known good bootable Linux usb
> Ubuntu, Fedora the system fails to post.
> 1. Dell logo comes up
> 2. Press F12 (boot) or F2 (setup) the light flashes on the usb and the
> system is otherwise frozen.
> 3. Neither the setup nor boot menu come up
>
> However, when I use a bootable gparted USB it comes up fine. When I go to
> the boot menu and select the usb, it boots.
>
>
> Sent from Galaxy S8 Android
>
> Jerry Feldman 
> Boston Linux and Unix
> http://www.blu.org
> PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
> PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6B B6E7
>
>
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[Discuss] Post issue with bootable linux

[Jerry Feldman]

I have a guy with an older system
Core2 duo CPU
4GB ddr2 scramble

Dell motherboard
The problem is when I boot with a known good bootable Linux usb
Ubuntu, Fedora the system fails to post.
1. Dell logo comes up
2. Press F12 (boot) or F2 (setup) the light flashes on the usb and the
system is otherwise frozen.
3. Neither the setup nor boot menu come up

However, when I use a bootable gparted USB it comes up fine. When I go to
the boot menu and select the usb, it boots.


Sent from Galaxy S8 Android

Jerry Feldman 
Boston Linux and Unix
http://www.blu.org
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6B B6E7
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