[tdf-discuss] Accessibility: What's the story?
Hey all. A question I've been wondering, and that Orca users are wondering, and that the GNOME accessibility team is wondering is: What's the story with LibreOffice accessibility? In particular: * Is the fork so complete that fixes made in OOo will not even be seen -- or incorporated into LibreOffice even if they are seen? Or * Are things from OOo still being cherry picked for inclusion in LibreOffice -- or would be if they were pointed out via bugzilla? Also: * Is there an active a11y team and/or developers focused on a11y issues in LibreOffice? And, yeah, I know: It's open source. And getting and building the code is a zillion times easier than is the case with OOo (for which I'm truly grateful). So I should just submit patches. :-) Let's pretend we've already had that discussion with the conclusion being that I sincerely promise to contribute as soon as I get caught up on my DayJob, Orca work, GNOME 3 issues, etc., etc. In meantime What's the story w.r.t. the questions above? Oh, and yes, I already inquired on the accessibility list a couple of months ago. No one there seems to know and the only advice I got was to file bugs in both issue trackers. Thus if any of y'all can shed light on the situation it would be super. Thanks in advance! --joanie Orca project lead GNOME accessibility team -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[tdf-discuss] Oracle Contributor Agreement and LibreOffice contributions
Hi, I have a question about licences and copyright. As many of you know, contributing code to the core of OpenOffice.org requires that one signs the Oracle Contributor Agreement [1] (which is identical to the Sun Contributor Agreement). Extensions are exempt from this [2]. 1. Now imagine that I contribute code to LibreOffice and the contribution is accepted. Is it then still acceptable (from a copyright point of view) to sign the Oracle Contributor Agreement and submit the same code to OpenOffice.org? 2. Conversely, if I sign the Oracle Contributor Agreement and submit code (and it gets accepted, otherwise the copyright reverts to me), can I then still submit the same code to LibreOffice or would that cause problems for LibreOffice (because Oracle now shares copyright of the code I submitted)? 2.b. Can I contribute the code to LibreOffice while the acceptance of my patch to OpenOffice.org is still pending? These are important questions for developers who don't want to take sides for or against OpenOffice.org or LibreOffice. If this has already been clarified in a wiki somewhere, please let me know. (I have searched the web but I haven't found any info on this.) [1] http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Oracle_Contributor_Agreement [2] http://www.openoffice.org/FAQs/faq-licensing.html#usinglicenses: Licensing FAQ: Contributing Works Best regards, Christophe PS: As long as this issue has not been clarified, certain contributions will be published as an extension instead of a submission to the core. -- Christophe Strobbe K.U.Leuven - Dept. of Electrical Engineering - SCD Research Group on Document Architectures Kasteelpark Arenberg 10 bus 2442 B-3001 Leuven-Heverlee BELGIUM tel: +32 16 32 85 51 http://www.docarch.be/ Twitter: @RabelaisA11y --- Better products and services through end-user empowerment www.usem-net.eu - www.stand4all.eu --- Please don't invite me to Facebook, Quechup or other social networks. You may have agreed to their privacy policy, but I haven't. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Oracle Contributor Agreement and LibreOffice contributions
Hi Christophe, On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 3:28 PM, Christophe Strobbe christophe.stro...@esat.kuleuven.be wrote: 1. Now imagine that I contribute code to LibreOffice and the contribution is accepted. Is it then still acceptable (from a copyright point of view) to sign the Oracle Contributor Agreement and submit the same code to OpenOffice.org? Sure - also the other way round is possible, first contribute to OOo and then commit the same code to LO - with the joint copyright assignment you don't loose your own rights, you are free to submit your code under whatever licence terms you please. 2. Conversely, if I sign the Oracle Contributor Agreement and submit code (and it gets accepted, otherwise the copyright reverts to me), You never loose the copyright, you just assign the same rights you have on your code to Oracle as well, additionally. ciao Christian -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[tdf-discuss] Und schon wieder eine Frage zu Übersetzungen
Hallo, ich stoße in den englischen Texten ab und zu auf Schlagworte wie dispatch framework. Gibt es eine Stelle, an der ich nachsehen kann, wie dieser Terminus technicus zu übersetzen ist, wenn überhaupt. Ich denke dabei insbesondere an eine Konsistenz zwischen Dokumentation, Onlinehilfe und Hilfe. Gruß Karl-Heinz -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Oracle Contributor Agreement and LibreOffice contributions
Hello Christophe, Le Wed, 16 Feb 2011 15:28:43 +0100, Christophe Strobbe christophe.stro...@esat.kuleuven.be a écrit : Hi, I have a question about licences and copyright. As many of you know, contributing code to the core of OpenOffice.org requires that one signs the Oracle Contributor Agreement [1] (which is identical to the Sun Contributor Agreement). Extensions are exempt from this [2]. So, IANAL, I'm not Oracle, this is not a TDF official statement, don't put your cat in the microwave, etc, etc 1. Now imagine that I contribute code to LibreOffice and the contribution is accepted. Is it then still acceptable (from a copyright point of view) to sign the Oracle Contributor Agreement and submit the same code to OpenOffice.org? Yes. 2. Conversely, if I sign the Oracle Contributor Agreement and submit code (and it gets accepted, otherwise the copyright reverts to me), can I then still submit the same code to LibreOffice or would that cause problems for LibreOffice (because Oracle now shares copyright of the code I submitted)? Yes. Actually that's what we do when we pull the OOo codebase over to us. 2.b. Can I contribute the code to LibreOffice while the acceptance of my patch to OpenOffice.org is still pending? Yes. Best, Charles. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Accessibility: What's the story?
Hi, These are important questions that I also wanted to ask, especially in the light of IBM's contribution of an IAccessible2 implementation to OpenOffice.org, which would significantly improve accessibility on Windows. After describing what I know about OOo accessibility on Windows on the LibO accessibility mailing list [1], one of the questions that I am interested in is whether that IAccessible2 implementation would also become available in LibreOffice or whether it would have to be redeveloped from scratch for LibreOffice (due to copyright / IP reasons, because I can't think of anything else). [1] http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/accessibility/msg00034.html Best regards, Christophe At 21:55 15/02/2011, Joanmarie Diggs wrote: Hey all. A question I've been wondering, and that Orca users are wondering, and that the GNOME accessibility team is wondering is: What's the story with LibreOffice accessibility? In particular: * Is the fork so complete that fixes made in OOo will not even be seen -- or incorporated into LibreOffice even if they are seen? Or * Are things from OOo still being cherry picked for inclusion in LibreOffice -- or would be if they were pointed out via bugzilla? Also: * Is there an active a11y team and/or developers focused on a11y issues in LibreOffice? And, yeah, I know: It's open source. And getting and building the code is a zillion times easier than is the case with OOo (for which I'm truly grateful). So I should just submit patches. :-) Let's pretend we've already had that discussion with the conclusion being that I sincerely promise to contribute as soon as I get caught up on my DayJob, Orca work, GNOME 3 issues, etc., etc. In meantime What's the story w.r.t. the questions above? Oh, and yes, I already inquired on the accessibility list a couple of months ago. No one there seems to know and the only advice I got was to file bugs in both issue trackers. Thus if any of y'all can shed light on the situation it would be super. Thanks in advance! --joanie Orca project lead GNOME accessibility team -- Christophe Strobbe K.U.Leuven - Dept. of Electrical Engineering - SCD Research Group on Document Architectures Kasteelpark Arenberg 10 bus 2442 B-3001 Leuven-Heverlee BELGIUM tel: +32 16 32 85 51 http://www.docarch.be/ Twitter: @RabelaisA11y --- Better products and services through end-user empowerment www.usem-net.eu - www.stand4all.eu --- Please don't invite me to Facebook, Quechup or other social networks. You may have agreed to their privacy policy, but I haven't. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Sorry wrong list Re: [tdf-discuss] Und schon wieder eine Frage zu Übersetzungen
Am 16.02.2011 15:38, schrieb Karl-Heinz Gödderz: Hallo, ich stoße in den englischen Texten ab und zu auf Schlagworte wie dispatch framework. Gibt es eine Stelle, an der ich nachsehen kann, wie dieser Terminus technicus zu übersetzen ist, wenn überhaupt. Ich denke dabei insbesondere an eine Konsistenz zwischen Dokumentation, Onlinehilfe und Hilfe. Gruß Karl-Heinz -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Und schon wieder eine Frage zu Übersetzungen
Hi Karl-Heinz, I guess, this was the wron list, so I'm sending to german list as well. (Follow ups should be sent only there ;) Original-Nachricht Datum: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 15:38:08 +0100 Von: Karl-Heinz Gödderz libreoff...@gukk-online.de An: LibO-global-discuss discuss@documentfoundation.org Betreff: [tdf-discuss] Und schon wieder eine Frage zu Übersetzungen Hallo, ich stoße in den englischen Texten ab und zu auf Schlagworte wie dispatch framework. Gibt es eine Stelle, an der ich nachsehen kann, wie dieser Terminus technicus zu übersetzen ist, wenn überhaupt. Ich denke dabei insbesondere an eine Konsistenz zwischen Dokumentation, Onlinehilfe und Hilfe. Ich hatte angefangen, die Terminologie in Pootle zu pflegen [1]. Allerdings enthält diese bisher nur extrem wenige Begriffe, da ich zunächst nur das ertfasst habe, wo es bei den Letzten Übersetzungen Probleme bzw. Rückfragen gab. Vorschlag: Sende fragliche Passagen (möglichst mit Referenz auf einen kompletten Absatz) an die de-discuss liste. Dort können wir uns dann einigen und die formulierung in die Pootle terminologie aufnehmen. Gruß, André [1]: http://translations.documentfoundation.org/de/terminology/ -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[tdf-discuss] Re: Oracle Contributor Agreement and LibreOffice contributions
Le 16/02/11 15:28, Christophe Strobbe a écrit : Hi Christophe, 1. Now imagine that I contribute code to LibreOffice and the contribution is accepted. Is it then still acceptable (from a copyright point of view) to sign the Oracle Contributor Agreement and submit the same code to OpenOffice.org? Yes. 2. Conversely, if I sign the Oracle Contributor Agreement and submit code (and it gets accepted, otherwise the copyright reverts to me), can I then still submit the same code to LibreOffice or would that cause problems for LibreOffice (because Oracle now shares copyright of the code I submitted)? 2.b. Can I contribute the code to LibreOffice while the acceptance of my patch to OpenOffice.org is still pending? Yes. Articles 2 and 4 of the OCA (see below for extracts) specifically allow this kind of situation. The assignment provides for joint ownership, or, in the worst case scenario, a non-exclusive, worldwide, perpetual licence. You are allowed to do what you like with the copyrights you retain as initial author. You agree that each of us can do all things in relation to your contribution as if each of us were the sole owners, and if one of us makes a derivative work of your contribution, the one who makes the derivative work (or has it made) will be the sole owner of that derivative work you agree that neither of us has any duty to consult with, obtain the consent of, pay or render an accounting to the other for any use or distribution of your contribution. Alex -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Accessibility: What's the story?
Hi Joanie, Joanmarie Diggs wrote (15-02-11 21:55) A question I've been wondering, and that Orca users are wondering, and that the GNOME accessibility team is wondering is: What's the story with LibreOffice accessibility? In particular: * Is the fork so complete that fixes made in OOo will not even be seen -- or incorporated into LibreOffice even if they are seen? Or * Are things from OOo still being cherry picked for inclusion in LibreOffice -- or would be if they were pointed out via bugzilla? In general, yes. Also: * Is there an active a11y team and/or developers focused on a11y issues in LibreOffice? Sure there are people with a focus on this. I am not sure if we actually can speak of 'a team'. Regards, Cor -- - giving openoffice.org its foundation :: The Document Foundation - -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Accessibility: What's the story?
On 16/02/11 16:24, Cor Nouws wrote: Hi Joanie, Joanmarie Diggs wrote (15-02-11 21:55) A question I've been wondering, and that Orca users are wondering, and that the GNOME accessibility team is wondering is: What's the story with LibreOffice accessibility? In particular: * Is the fork so complete that fixes made in OOo will not even be seen -- or incorporated into LibreOffice even if they are seen? Or * Are things from OOo still being cherry picked for inclusion in LibreOffice -- or would be if they were pointed out via bugzilla? In general, yes. Also: * Is there an active a11y team and/or developers focused on a11y issues in LibreOffice? Sure there are people with a focus on this. I am not sure if we actually can speak of 'a team'. Regards, Cor Well, I haven't had the time to reinstall my mate's computer with Orca and GNOME yet, but I'll get there. Once that's done, it should be possible to extract useful data for LibO. Sincerely, Olav Dahlum -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[tdf-discuss] REVIEW ARTICLE: VITAL reading for LibreOffice developers, users, supporters
Almost VITAL reading for LibreOffice developers, users, and supporters: http://www.infoworld.com/d/applications/open-office-dilemma-openofficeorg-vs-libreoffice-716?page=0,0source=IFWNLE_nlt_daily_2011-02-16 PLEASE... might recommended that one pay particular attention to what is/are found as weaknesses in BOTH OpenOffice and LibreOffice. The reasoning is that these weakness areas MUST be addressed and SOON, as the weakness seen will almost assuredly turn off many potential users and LibreOffice adopters, even those the same basic weakness described also afflict OpenOffice as well. These include compatibility with MS Office XML and 2010 files, Presentation having limited PowerPoint features, and a few others that the article mentions. Hope that this reading of the article brings many fruits to LibreOffice, perhaps in 3.3.1 or the next release and Update. Joe Rotello WindowGroup / Knoxville, TN / USA -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[tdf-discuss] Re: REVIEW ARTICLE: VITAL reading for LibreOffice developers, users, supporters
Le 2011-02-16 11:45, Joe Rotello a écrit : Almost VITAL reading for LibreOffice developers, users, and supporters: http://www.infoworld.com/d/applications/open-office-dilemma-openofficeorg-vs-libreoffice-716?page=0,0source=IFWNLE_nlt_daily_2011-02-16 PLEASE... might recommended that one pay particular attention to what is/are found as weaknesses in BOTH OpenOffice and LibreOffice. The reasoning is that these weakness areas MUST be addressed and SOON, as the weakness seen will almost assuredly turn off many potential users and LibreOffice adopters, even those the same basic weakness described also afflict OpenOffice as well. These include compatibility with MS Office XML and 2010 files, Presentation having limited PowerPoint features, and a few others that the article mentions. Hope that this reading of the article brings many fruits to LibreOffice, perhaps in 3.3.1 or the next release and Update. Joe Rotello WindowGroup / Knoxville, TN / USA Thanks for the article Joe. Good reading. I am sure the devs will have a look at this too. I have added this into our LibreOffice in the Press wiki page[1] Cheers Marc [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice_In_The_Press -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] REVIEW ARTICLE: VITAL reading for LibreOffice developers, users, supporters
John, I'm not with you with this interpretation of the compatibility issues These include compatibility with MS Office XML and 2010 files, Presentation having limited PowerPoint features, and a few others that the article mentions. the problem is keeping the standards or not. this is a mission impossible being compatible with closed MS formats, as you might know well MS doesn't even keep it's own standard bought from ISO In this point, I suggest we have to show some toughness and we should show up a bit about MS indolent if not malicious behavior. Laszlo -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Accessibility: What's the story?
Hi Joanie, On Wed, 2011-02-16 at 16:24 +0100, Cor Nouws wrote: * Is there an active a11y team and/or developers focused on a11y issues in LibreOffice? Sure there are people with a focus on this. I am not sure if we actually can speak of 'a team'. Quite - whether there is a team at OO.o is a similar question ;-) there are people who can help fix problems. From ORCA's perspective, I created the design, prototype, and ~50% of the existing atk bridge in vcl; so I wouldn't fret that we are skill-less in this area :-) Furthermore, it is far easier to work on LibreOffice process-wise to get fixes in, so I anticipate (over time) a better accessibility experience; and of course we welcome patches (on the dev list). All the best, Michael. -- michael.me...@novell.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Oracle Contributor Agreement and LibreOffice contributions
Hi Christophe, This question prolly belongs best on the dev list. On Wed, 2011-02-16 at 15:28 +0100, Christophe Strobbe wrote: 1. Now imagine that I contribute code to LibreOffice and the contribution is accepted. Is it then still acceptable (from a copyright point of view) to sign the Oracle Contributor Agreement and submit the same code to OpenOffice.org? Yes - on the other hand, this creates more work for LibreOffice, and (of course) lots of work for you submitting code to OO.o - signing and faxing a form, CWS creation, etc. etc. That's fine of course by me, but when it comes to merging (the inevitably different) changes from OO.o it just makes even more work when we merge that stuff in. So this practise is essentially not recommended. 2.b. Can I contribute the code to LibreOffice while the acceptance of my patch to OpenOffice.org is still pending? So - if it is licensed under LGPLv3+/MPL we are happy to accept it - please post it to the dev list, we're eager to see it :-) if Oracle owns the copyright[1], but you can license it to us under LGPLv3+/MPL, I (for one) don't much mind who owns it :-) But again, you consume LibreOffice engineering resource doing merging changes, and our life is easier if you don't do that in most cases :-) ATB, Michael. [1] - and their assignment-cum-license is a pretty thorough way of giving away your rights. -- michael.me...@novell.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Help with telling the story Re: [tdf-discuss] Accessibility: What's the story?
On Wed, 2011-02-16 at 17:30 +, Michael Meeks wrote: Hi Joanie, On Wed, 2011-02-16 at 16:24 +0100, Cor Nouws wrote: * Is there an active a11y team and/or developers focused on a11y issues in LibreOffice? Sure there are people with a focus on this. I am not sure if we actually can speak of 'a team'. Quite - whether there is a team at OO.o is a similar question ;-) there are people who can help fix problems. From ORCA's perspective, I created the design, prototype, and ~50% of the existing atk bridge in vcl; so I wouldn't fret that we are skill-less in this area :-) Furthermore, it is far easier to work on LibreOffice process-wise to get fixes in, so I anticipate (over time) a better accessibility experience; and of course we welcome patches (on the dev list). Hi, If I may change the subject here for a moment. When lasted I noted any comment on the OO.o lists with regard to the IAccessibilty code coming from IBM, IIRC, the comment was that it was 'not yet integrated' - I don't know if that is still true. From LibreOffice stand point, I am not sure I have heard what the plan is, would that integration be merged here? (if the answer is still don't know till we see it - that's a valid answer) I remember watching the session on accessibility at the last OOoConn and I know there was a MS rep there, as I remember you had some small interaction. I'm don't know then if your (the dev teams) thoughts are to look for the integration coming via OO.o/IBM or if you are looking at going a different route. Please don't feel you need to respond directly - if there are some references already (other emails, blogs) it would be great if anyone could point in the direction of those. This next period there are number of shows in the US and the question of accessibility is treated quite directly in this area. I was thinking of trying to create a small reference piece for the booth staff at the shows with some information on this subject (within this next 2 weeks - to make the first show): LIbreOffice support for accessibility technologies (current and future) [or something similar] I'm starting with the assumption that anything relating to OO.o 3.3 would be correct also for Libo 3.3 - correct assumption? Beyond that - I'm not asking for a direct response here to this email, but if that assumption is not correct, or there are actual plans for a different direction for integration it would be much appreciated if anyone could direct some links my way, I will read and assemble a smaller flyer type piece, then ask folks to review it. Thanks for your time, Drew -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[tdf-discuss] FOSDEM LibreOffice talk now available as video
Hi, I have not seen any notice about it on this list, so just in case you are not already aware of it: The great talk Liberating Open Office Development from Michael Meeks presented at this years FOSDEM is available as a video on http://video.fosdem.org/2011/maintracks/ Regards, Michael -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice Community starts 50, 000 Euro challenge for setting-up its foundation
Il 16/02/2011 13:18, Florian Effenberger ha scritto: LibreOffice Community starts 50,000 Euro challenge for setting-up its foundation just donated :-) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice Community starts 50, 000 Euro challenge for setting-up its foundation
Thanks a lot for your support! yahoo-pier_andreit wrote on 2011-02-16 21.18: just donated:-) -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
