Re: [tdf-discuss] phpbb for the official LO forums

[Jonathan Aquilina]

On 04/11/2011 23:46, Simos Xenitellis wrote:

On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 10:27 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
wrote:
It is the case that Stack Exchange is a challenge, although I don't recall
having all that much difficulty with it.

I concur completely about the desire for forums and the phpBB forums seem
to
work quite well (at least based on the experience with the OpenOffice.org
Community Forums).  It does indeed depend on the vigilance of volunteers,
moderators, and administrators.  But Forum governance can work very
smoothly
and it is a great outlet for peer support and the satisfaction of peer
supporters who advance into volunteer and other categories.

There is one value to Stack Exchange.  It is possible to set a search on
Stack
Exchange questions and watch for ones that are relevant to OO.o and LO.  I
have done so and I see about one per day.  (I have probably responded to at
most two of them.)

I suspect it is possible to also create a search that also finds asked and
answered or still unanswered questions about OO.o and LO.

More eyes on those, especially for those who are enamored of Stock
Exchange,
would be valuable.


I think the big benefit for StackExchange is the built-in mechanism for
rewarding contributors with points.
See for example http://askubuntu.com/ (the Ubuntu StackExchange).
1. As you help out people, your readers can upvote your answers and you
earn badges.
2. There are bronze and silver and possibly gold badges.
3. You also earn privileges as you get more points. For example, you can
earn the privilege to modify/fix the questions of users if you feel they
can become better.
4. The design of StackExchange is to move much of the moderation work
towards the users themselves, and get them trained to produce better
answers.
5. AFAIK, there are dedicated people who perform general moderation for
issues that are missed by the volunteers. This helps tremendously to create
a nice and cooperative environment on AskUbuntu.

StackExchange is complementary to a forum.

There is Shapado and there is StackExchange. Which to choose if we ever go
for such a service? I would prefer StackExchange as it is bigger and hosts
already many heavy sites such as StackOverflow.
I fear that Shapado does not have a big consumer yet.

To get a LibreOffice StackExchange, there is a process where StackExchange
users need to vote in favor of the proposed site.


Regarding the forum, I think it will need to have the karma feature, a way
to reward users who post often.
In addition to this, it would be good to have an option to Thank the author
of a specific post.
See for example http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=755389 (at
end of post, 3 people thanked the author).
Both http://forum.xda-developers.com/ (4m members) and
http://ubuntuforums.org/ (1.5m members) are based on vBulletin, a
proprietary forum software.
If phpBB can perform similar functionality to vBulletin, it should be fine.
phpBB supports mods (addons), so it's an issue to search and test the
appropriate addons that they work reliably.

Simos



  - Dennis E. Hamilton
   tools for document interoperability,
   dennis.hamil...@acm.org  gsm: +1-206-779-9430  @orcmid





-Original Message-
From: Italo Vignoli [mailto:italo.vign...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 13:19
To: discuss@documentfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] phpbb for the official LO forums

On 11/4/11 7:56 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote:


many users have made *very* clear to me several times that they want a
"real" forum they know, like phpBB. Otherwise, I would have simply gone
with Nabble, so I'm a bit hesitant...

I agree with Florian. Users want a forum, and this has been made very
clear by many people. After having been accused of ignoring user needs
because we didn't have a real forum, any other solution, at this stage,
would be perceived in a negative way.

Please remember that users are different from developers. As a user, I
find stackexchange simply unacceptable (would really like to know who
has had the idea).

Users do not want to study the solution. They want to write a question,
and get an answer. Simple problem, with a simple answer.

Stackexchange makes it complex, in a useless way. I have been on the
site for ten minutes, and I haven't been able to understand what I was
supposed to do. I am usually considered a power user (sometimes, even a
geek, at least in the marketing environment), and I don't see how
something like stackexchange can be considered a better alternative to
mailing lists and forums.

Best, Italo

--
Italo Vignoli
italo.vign...@gmail.com
mobile +39.348.5653829
VoIP +39.02.320621813
skype italovignoli

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All messa

Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Will win64 native build exist on 3.5.0 or at least 3.5.x releases?

[Jesús Corrius]

> I must admit I considered the option of answering you in catalá slang.
>
> It is a shame that this is the answer from a Deputy of the Board of
> Directors...

Sorry for my last message. It wasn't my intention to be offensive.

-- 
Jesús Corrius 
Deputy of the Board of Directors of the Document Foundation
Mobile: +34 661 11 38 26
Skype: jcorrius | Twitter: @jcorrius

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Re: [tdf-discuss] phpbb for the official LO forums

[Simos Xenitellis]

On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 10:27 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:

> It is the case that Stack Exchange is a challenge, although I don't recall
> having all that much difficulty with it.
>
> I concur completely about the desire for forums and the phpBB forums seem
> to
> work quite well (at least based on the experience with the OpenOffice.org
> Community Forums).  It does indeed depend on the vigilance of volunteers,
> moderators, and administrators.  But Forum governance can work very
> smoothly
> and it is a great outlet for peer support and the satisfaction of peer
> supporters who advance into volunteer and other categories.
>
> There is one value to Stack Exchange.  It is possible to set a search on
> Stack
> Exchange questions and watch for ones that are relevant to OO.o and LO.  I
> have done so and I see about one per day.  (I have probably responded to at
> most two of them.)
>
> I suspect it is possible to also create a search that also finds asked and
> answered or still unanswered questions about OO.o and LO.
>
> More eyes on those, especially for those who are enamored of Stock
> Exchange,
> would be valuable.
>

I think the big benefit for StackExchange is the built-in mechanism for
rewarding contributors with points.
See for example http://askubuntu.com/ (the Ubuntu StackExchange).
1. As you help out people, your readers can upvote your answers and you
earn badges.
2. There are bronze and silver and possibly gold badges.
3. You also earn privileges as you get more points. For example, you can
earn the privilege to modify/fix the questions of users if you feel they
can become better.
4. The design of StackExchange is to move much of the moderation work
towards the users themselves, and get them trained to produce better
answers.
5. AFAIK, there are dedicated people who perform general moderation for
issues that are missed by the volunteers. This helps tremendously to create
a nice and cooperative environment on AskUbuntu.

StackExchange is complementary to a forum.

There is Shapado and there is StackExchange. Which to choose if we ever go
for such a service? I would prefer StackExchange as it is bigger and hosts
already many heavy sites such as StackOverflow.
I fear that Shapado does not have a big consumer yet.

To get a LibreOffice StackExchange, there is a process where StackExchange
users need to vote in favor of the proposed site.


Regarding the forum, I think it will need to have the karma feature, a way
to reward users who post often.
In addition to this, it would be good to have an option to Thank the author
of a specific post.
See for example http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=755389 (at
end of post, 3 people thanked the author).
Both http://forum.xda-developers.com/ (4m members) and
http://ubuntuforums.org/ (1.5m members) are based on vBulletin, a
proprietary forum software.
If phpBB can perform similar functionality to vBulletin, it should be fine.
phpBB supports mods (addons), so it's an issue to search and test the
appropriate addons that they work reliably.

Simos


>
>  - Dennis E. Hamilton
>   tools for document interoperability,  
>   dennis.hamil...@acm.org  gsm: +1-206-779-9430  @orcmid
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Italo Vignoli [mailto:italo.vign...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 13:19
> To: discuss@documentfoundation.org
> Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] phpbb for the official LO forums
>
> On 11/4/11 7:56 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote:
>
> > many users have made *very* clear to me several times that they want a
> > "real" forum they know, like phpBB. Otherwise, I would have simply gone
> > with Nabble, so I'm a bit hesitant...
>
> I agree with Florian. Users want a forum, and this has been made very
> clear by many people. After having been accused of ignoring user needs
> because we didn't have a real forum, any other solution, at this stage,
> would be perceived in a negative way.
>
> Please remember that users are different from developers. As a user, I
> find stackexchange simply unacceptable (would really like to know who
> has had the idea).
>
> Users do not want to study the solution. They want to write a question,
> and get an answer. Simple problem, with a simple answer.
>
> Stackexchange makes it complex, in a useless way. I have been on the
> site for ten minutes, and I haven't been able to understand what I was
> supposed to do. I am usually considered a power user (sometimes, even a
> geek, at least in the marketing environment), and I don't see how
> something like stackexchange can be considered a better alternative to
> mailing lists and forums.
>
> Best, Italo
>
> --
> Italo Vignoli
> italo.vign...@gmail.com
> mobile +39.348.5653829
> VoIP +39.02.320621813
> skype italovignoli
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundati

[tdf-discuss] Re: Will win64 native build exist on 3.5.0 or at least 3.5.x releases?

[Pedro]

Jesús Corrius-2 wrote:
> 
> If a heavy document doesn't work with the current x86 builds, please
> open a bug report and attach the document to it. The more of them we
> collect, the more obvious would be that we have to migrate.
> 

I must admit I considered the option of answering you in catalá slang.

It is a shame that this is the answer from a Deputy of the Board of
Directors...

BTW I didn't mention the word migrate.

--
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http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Will-win64-native-build-exist-on-3-5-0-or-at-least-3-5-x-releases-tp3473463p3481470.html
Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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[tdf-discuss] Re: Replace "validate" in XML Filter dialog with "Open in Editor"

[Peter Jentsch]

Hi Alex, 
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 14:40:17 +0200, Alexander Thurgood wrote:

> Le 24/10/11 23:41, Peter Jentsch a écrit :
> 
> Hi Peter,
>> So I'd like to hear your opinions on that: is anyone using the
>> validation button or at least theoretically sees some practical value
>> to it, compared to offering to open the resulting XML in your favourite
>> editor?
>> 
>> 
> The problem I see with that approach is that :
> 
> - the favourite editor doesn't necessarily provide validation either, or
> maybe I'm just using the wrong ones ;-)
> 
> - it would become dependent on the implementation specifics of the
> editor, but maybe people can live with that, after all, editing XML is
> not everyone's cup of tea anyway !!
> 

You might use xml copy editor (http://xml-copy-editor.sourceforge.net/), 
which does validation and a bunch of other useful things, while being 
small simple and free. 


> My interest in "something that just works" is both personal and
> professional. In a professional capacity, I have to draft patent
> applications for online filing according to a internationally agreed
> standard :
> 
> http://www.wipo.int/standards/en/xml_material/st36/
> 
> At present, one of the organisations I work with, the EPO, makes
> available an XML-Form based application that enables users to create an
> patent application request, include content as part of the application
> by importing either XML files or via a Word document (which uses VBA
> macros to convert the structure of the Word document into valid XML),
> and then validate the whole thing against the relevant DTDs. The user in
> essence needs to know nothing about XML processing and validation, it is
> all transparently achieved for him/her.
> 
> I was hoping to find some way to do this with LibO, and the XSLT export
> feature looked like a potential candidate to me. I have also started
> looking at the potential use of XForms from within LibO to produce a
> valid XML document that would allow me to either create a valid XML
> document for processing with the online filing software, or simply some
> valid XML file that I could import into the PatXML application, without
> the need of having to go through Word.
> 
> I had hoped that the existing XSLT/XSD export/validation functionality
> within LibO could be used to that effect, but it would appear from your
> initial comment that this might actually be beyond LibO's current
> capabilities, hence the idea to farm this out to an external editor.
>
As long as the xml structure is not too complex, the XML filter might 
very well be used to do some XML / OpenDocument roundtrip editing. You 
might want to have a look at the docbook filters for inspiration.
 
> For my given situation, this validation could of course be carried out
> by PatXML, but unfortunately this is a Windows only solution, and I was
> hoping to be able to implement a platform independent one, hence the
> consideration of the LibO internal validation route.
>
The validation function in the XML filter editor dialog only aims at 
testing a new xml filter. The actual import/export doesn't do any 
validation currently. But in general, once you have your filter in good 
shape, you should be able to rely on it producing valid output. 
 
> I admit that this is probably a niche case, but nonetheless remains
> important for me. Unfortunately, I can not at present say whether the
> functionality within LibO would actually work for the scenario I am
> considering, so my comments may be completely moot.

+1 for interesting, moot or not.
> 
> 
> Alex

Cheers, 

Peter
 


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[tdf-discuss] Re: Just a question

[Ken Springer]

On 11/3/11 10:32 AM, Marc Paré wrote:

Hi Ken

Le 2011-11-02 18:27, Ken Springer a écrit :


Now that I know what a "mockup" is, that is way beyond my ability to
create, without an awful lot of work at my end. The best I could do
would be to provide an organizational chart of how I would arrange and
link pages, with some comments on the content of the pages. In
preparation for the other post I just wrote, I found a problem on the
Nabble related pages. I can be on Level B of the hierarchy, click a link
to go up to Level A, but then there's no link to get back down to Level
B. :-)




On the contrary, you comments have added to the discussion and brought
out some good points. Being able to do mockups is a bonus for people who
can throw one together along with their arguments, but words are still
quite useful for all of us. We are still reading your recommendations.


Thank you.  It's nice to know that comments are appreciated.  I read a 
lot of comments in the Mozilla groups where users wonder if anyone even 
cares what users think.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 7.0.1
Thunderbird 7.0.1
LibreOffice 3.3.4


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[tdf-discuss] Re: user forums ?

[Ken Springer]

Apologies for the double post, but the Gmane system is giving me 
fits...  Again!  :-(


I actually wrote and sent the second post before the first post even 
showed up for me.  Note the huge difference between the timestamps.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 7.0.1
Thunderbird 7.0.1
LibreOffice 3.3.4


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Re: [tdf-discuss] XAdES digital signature extension

[Uwe Altmann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi

Am 04.11.11 19:27, schrieb Davide Dozza:
> 
> There are some compatibility problems. With LibO 3.4.3 the
> extension can be installed but neither the custom bar nor the
> configuration item are displayed. Therefore it seems the extension
> code doesn't start.

So this is the point where I want to moot someting like an
"API-Taskforce".
It should be possible from my point of view that some devs take the
responsibility to check new code to avoid api-breaks. And put to the
conscience of all devs that it should be a top priority to avoid
breaking the API-compatibility (no matter if they are made in OOO or LO).
If we loose the extension compatibility we will loose a lot of good
reasons for OOo/LO in many scenarios an also a lot of good devs
working on Extensions.
- -- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Uwe Altmann
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAk60WyIACgkQOTVzivhNo0J4dwCg1xD2g5EUhjQZ5apyGWB5v+ZL
TnkAn23bup0aHiIWiS9yElEgrpXDTSYl
=7LRz
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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RE: [tdf-discuss] phpbb for the official LO forums

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

It is the case that Stack Exchange is a challenge, although I don't recall 
having all that much difficulty with it.

I concur completely about the desire for forums and the phpBB forums seem to 
work quite well (at least based on the experience with the OpenOffice.org 
Community Forums).  It does indeed depend on the vigilance of volunteers, 
moderators, and administrators.  But Forum governance can work very smoothly 
and it is a great outlet for peer support and the satisfaction of peer 
supporters who advance into volunteer and other categories.

There is one value to Stack Exchange.  It is possible to set a search on Stack 
Exchange questions and watch for ones that are relevant to OO.o and LO.  I 
have done so and I see about one per day.  (I have probably responded to at 
most two of them.)

I suspect it is possible to also create a search that also finds asked and 
answered or still unanswered questions about OO.o and LO.

More eyes on those, especially for those who are enamored of Stock Exchange, 
would be valuable.


 - Dennis E. Hamilton
   tools for document interoperability,  
   dennis.hamil...@acm.org  gsm: +1-206-779-9430  @orcmid





-Original Message-
From: Italo Vignoli [mailto:italo.vign...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 13:19
To: discuss@documentfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] phpbb for the official LO forums

On 11/4/11 7:56 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote:

> many users have made *very* clear to me several times that they want a
> "real" forum they know, like phpBB. Otherwise, I would have simply gone
> with Nabble, so I'm a bit hesitant...

I agree with Florian. Users want a forum, and this has been made very
clear by many people. After having been accused of ignoring user needs
because we didn't have a real forum, any other solution, at this stage,
would be perceived in a negative way.

Please remember that users are different from developers. As a user, I
find stackexchange simply unacceptable (would really like to know who
has had the idea).

Users do not want to study the solution. They want to write a question,
and get an answer. Simple problem, with a simple answer.

Stackexchange makes it complex, in a useless way. I have been on the
site for ten minutes, and I haven't been able to understand what I was
supposed to do. I am usually considered a power user (sometimes, even a
geek, at least in the marketing environment), and I don't see how
something like stackexchange can be considered a better alternative to
mailing lists and forums.

Best, Italo

-- 
Italo Vignoli
italo.vign...@gmail.com
mobile +39.348.5653829
VoIP +39.02.320621813
skype italovignoli

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Re: [tdf-discuss] phpbb for the official LO forums

[Italo Vignoli]

On 11/4/11 7:56 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote:

> many users have made *very* clear to me several times that they want a
> "real" forum they know, like phpBB. Otherwise, I would have simply gone
> with Nabble, so I'm a bit hesitant...

I agree with Florian. Users want a forum, and this has been made very
clear by many people. After having been accused of ignoring user needs
because we didn't have a real forum, any other solution, at this stage,
would be perceived in a negative way.

Please remember that users are different from developers. As a user, I
find stackexchange simply unacceptable (would really like to know who
has had the idea).

Users do not want to study the solution. They want to write a question,
and get an answer. Simple problem, with a simple answer.

Stackexchange makes it complex, in a useless way. I have been on the
site for ten minutes, and I haven't been able to understand what I was
supposed to do. I am usually considered a power user (sometimes, even a
geek, at least in the marketing environment), and I don't see how
something like stackexchange can be considered a better alternative to
mailing lists and forums.

Best, Italo

-- 
Italo Vignoli
italo.vign...@gmail.com
mobile +39.348.5653829
VoIP +39.02.320621813
skype italovignoli

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[board-discuss] No call tomorrow

[Florian Effenberger]

Hello,

just to avoid misunderstandings: There will be no BoD call tomorrow, since 
we're still voting on the new times. In case you (BoD and deputies) haven't 
voted yet, please do so, so we can announce the new times next week.

Enjoy your weekend,
Florian

*** This message has been sent from my tablet. Please excuse the possible 
briefness.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] XAdES digital signature extension

[Carlo Strata]

Il 04/11/2011 19:27, Davide Dozza ha scritto:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Il 03/11/2011 19:02, Simon Phipps ha scritto:

[...]


Contributors for extending and porting to LibO are welcome.

Thanks, Davide. What are the obstacles to it working with
LibreOffice as it exists now?

There are some compatibility problems.
With LibO 3.4.3 the extension can be installed but neither the custom
bar nor the configuration item are displayed.
Therefore it seems the extension code doesn't start.


Ciao Davide,

I use:
- linux, x86-64, OpenSuSE 11.2, updated, kernel 2.6.38-6-5-default (I 
know: it's time to update... ;-) );

- LibreOffice, x86-64, 3.4.3 vanilla and now 3.4.4-RC2.

I tested your extension some weeks ago (Libò 3.4.3) and now (3.4.4-RC2) 
in both cases:
- the custon bar appear (vertical, with only one icon, appear in the 
right side LibreOffice window border);
- all first extension controls are correctly performed (I mean: document 
not saved, read only document, smart card reader not present, ...);
- I haven't performed any other tests at the moment in this operating 
context.


I haven't tested yet, at all, the extension in Windows OSes, I'll do it 
asap with my father's Camera di Commercio's (Italian Trade Office) smart 
card and with usb reader (with which he usually signs financial document 
(in Pdf/A format)) and then I'll post the results. He uses Libò 3.3.2 
win32 on Windows XP, SP3, 32 bit, ita, daily updated. Have you 
interested in Libò 3.3.2 test or I update to the 3.4.4 Libò before testing?


Have a nice evening,

Carlo




Davide

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Re: [tdf-discuss] phpbb for the official LO forums

[Marc-André Laverdière]

I don't need to bet that it would help a looot!!!
Maybe we can put multiple links, one as "beta" or "experimental"?

Marc-André LAVERDIÈRE
"Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete,
not lacking anything." -James 1:4
http://asimplediscipleslife.blogspot.com/
mlaverd.theunixplace.com




On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 3:03 PM, drew  wrote:

> On Fri, 2011-11-04 at 14:23 -0400, Marc-André Laverdière wrote:
> > grrr forums...
>
> grrr? is it chilly where your at, *smile*?
>
> Well, the area51 site has been setup for a while at:
> http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/24564/libreoffice
>
> Also the site at
> http://libreoffice.shapado.com/
>
> Neither has really taken off - what do you think should happen that
> would let us see what users think of it?
>
> Is it just adding a link to the website?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> //drew
>
>
> Again, would it do better with a link - you bet it would.
>
> > can we please try the stack exchange way and see what users think of it?
> >
> > On 4 Nov 2011 11:05, "Jonathan Aquilina"  wrote:
> >
> > On 04/11/2011 15:56, drew wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, 2011-11-04 at 15:29 +0100, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> > >>
> > ...
> > One thing i did forget to mention. If nabble is goign to be kept we can
> > link hot topics in the forums to closed discussions on the mailing list
> > directly to their appropriate section of the forum as well.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Jonathan Aquilina
> >
> > Get a signature like this.  ..
> >
> > --
> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
> > Problems? http://www.lib...
> >
>
>
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] XAdES digital signature extension

[Italo Vignoli]

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Hash: SHA1

On 11/4/11 7:27 PM, Davide Dozza wrote:

>>> Contributors for extending and porting to LibO are welcome.

Davide, it is impossible to access the page since you have sent the
first message to the mailing list. There is a cached version, but the
extension cached is not the final one. I have tried with a Mac and a
Linux box, but the result is the same.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] phpbb for the official LO forums

[drew]

On Fri, 2011-11-04 at 14:23 -0400, Marc-André Laverdière wrote:
> grrr forums...

grrr? is it chilly where your at, *smile*?

Well, the area51 site has been setup for a while at:
http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/24564/libreoffice

Also the site at
http://libreoffice.shapado.com/

Neither has really taken off - what do you think should happen that
would let us see what users think of it?

Is it just adding a link to the website?

Best wishes,

//drew


Again, would it do better with a link - you bet it would.

> can we please try the stack exchange way and see what users think of it?
> 
> On 4 Nov 2011 11:05, "Jonathan Aquilina"  wrote:
> 
> On 04/11/2011 15:56, drew wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 2011-11-04 at 15:29 +0100, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> >>
> ...
> One thing i did forget to mention. If nabble is goign to be kept we can
> link hot topics in the forums to closed discussions on the mailing list
> directly to their appropriate section of the forum as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Jonathan Aquilina
> 
> Get a signature like this.  
> -- 
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
> Problems? http://www.lib...
> 



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Re: [tdf-discuss] phpbb for the official LO forums

[Florian Effenberger]

Hi,

Marc-André Laverdière wrote on 2011-11-04 19:23:

can we please try the stack exchange way and see what users think of it?


many users have made *very* clear to me several times that they want a 
"real" forum they know, like phpBB. Otherwise, I would have simply gone 
with Nabble, so I'm a bit hesitant...


Florian

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: user forums ?

[Florian Effenberger]

Hi,

Marc Paré wrote on 2011-11-04 18:06:


Once the forums is definitely OK'd and once the decision on whether it
will be an EN forums only (which is what I think you are talking about)
or multiple languages, we should just make a call for help on all lists.


I definitely plan, should we go with own forums, to have them 
multi-language, to serve all our users at one place. :-)



If we are talking about a multiple languages forums, then we should only
support those where the mailing lists are most busy. We could then
branch out to other languages once moderator support is available.


Sounds good.


I could also help out with moderating if need be.


Thanks a lot!
I am still waiting for some feedback from others, to see where we should 
be going.


Florian

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Re: [tdf-discuss] XAdES digital signature extension

[Davide Dozza]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Il 03/11/2011 19:02, Simon Phipps ha scritto:

[...]

>> Contributors for extending and porting to LibO are welcome.
> 
> Thanks, Davide. What are the obstacles to it working with
> LibreOffice as it exists now?

There are some compatibility problems.
With LibO 3.4.3 the extension can be installed but neither the custom
bar nor the configuration item are displayed.
Therefore it seems the extension code doesn't start.

Davide

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Re: [tdf-discuss] phpbb for the official LO forums

[Marc-André Laverdière]

grrr forums...
can we please try the stack exchange way and see what users think of it?

On 4 Nov 2011 11:05, "Jonathan Aquilina"  wrote:

On 04/11/2011 15:56, drew wrote:
>
> On Fri, 2011-11-04 at 15:29 +0100, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
>>
...
One thing i did forget to mention. If nabble is goign to be kept we can
link hot topics in the forums to closed discussions on the mailing list
directly to their appropriate section of the forum as well.



Regards

Jonathan Aquilina

Get a signature like this. 

[tdf-discuss] Re: user forums ?

[Marc Paré]

Hi Drew, Florian, ...

Le 2011-11-04 06:18, Florian Effenberger a écrit :



It would be great, in case we go with own forums, to have a handful of
moderators right from the beginning. If not, I would even be willing to
see how things develop and have the guts to just do it. In case the
forum gets just messy and has to be shut down, c'est la vie, but we at
least tried it.

Florian



I really don't think we will have problems getting moderators from our 
membership. Moderating is a forums job that is very trainable and I 
think that once we put a call out for moderators, we will have enough 
who volunteer to run a forums board with enough moderator support.


Once the forums is definitely OK'd and once the decision on whether it 
will be an EN forums only (which is what I think you are talking about) 
or multiple languages, we should just make a call for help on all lists.


If we are talking about a multiple languages forums, then we should only 
support those where the mailing lists are most busy. We could then 
branch out to other languages once moderator support is available.


I could also help out with moderating if need be.

Marc


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Re: [tdf-discuss] phpbb for the official LO forums

[drew]

On Fri, 2011-11-04 at 16:49 +0100, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> On 04/11/2011 16:45, drew wrote:
> > On Fri, 2011-11-04 at 16:00 +0100, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> >> On 04/11/2011 15:56, drew wrote:
> >>> On Fri, 2011-11-04 at 15:29 +0100, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
>  Hey guys I know there has been alot of chatter about user forums. Here
>  is my suggestion.
> 
>  I am setting up my own forums using phpbb and here are a few points that
>  i would like to make in regards to using it.
> 
>  1) Localization
> 
>  I only need one language, but localization administration seems quite
>  easy to do via the administrator control panel.
> 
>  2) Forum security.
> 
>  Forum security is a big issue especially against spammers and those who
>  break the forum rules. Image based captcha comes as part of phpbb and
>  one needs to ensure the appropriate required packages are installed for
>  it to work.
> 
>  Another issue is those people who break forum rules. Bans can be made
>  using a persons email address as well as ip address and vice versa to
>  ensure that a given person cannot re register.
> 
>  Forum permissions are easy to manage as well as everyone ends up in a
>  group, and those groups are given particular permissions depending on
>  the group.
> 


> >
> > This is, I think, a better time to continue this conversation not so
> > much from the view of a web form features - but a bit more to see how
> > much interest there is from folks willing to help answer questions that
> > way - looking at those numbers on the wiki again one specific number
> > that should not be overlooked is the number of un-answered topics on the
> > phpBB de language forum - even inside the domain it's not a slam dunk -
> > the key is less the package (phpBB/Joomla/Drupal) and much more who is
> > actively watching out for activity.
> >

> >
> >
> Is there a way for all moderators to be emailed when there is a new 
> thread or post to a thread with out requiring all posts to be approved 
> by moderators?
> 

Well, one does not need to be a moderator to have behavior, phpBB
specifically, and with all of the packages I know off, any registered
user can set a watch flag on a specific board(s) - though the BBS
software packages have evolved to use a notification pattern weighted to
be as un-obtrusive as possible.

What that means is that when someone watches a list (or group of lists)
a notification email is sent when the first update happens on (a new
topic or new post - no packages I know of trigger an email if the only
change is an edit to an existing post) that list - and does NOT send
additional notifications until you login to the site next _and_ read at
least one of the updates message threads. This can throw people at
first.

//drew


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Re: [tdf-discuss] phpbb for the official LO forums

[Jonathan Aquilina]

On 04/11/2011 16:45, drew wrote:

On Fri, 2011-11-04 at 16:00 +0100, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:

On 04/11/2011 15:56, drew wrote:

On Fri, 2011-11-04 at 15:29 +0100, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:

Hey guys I know there has been alot of chatter about user forums. Here
is my suggestion.

I am setting up my own forums using phpbb and here are a few points that
i would like to make in regards to using it.

1) Localization

I only need one language, but localization administration seems quite
easy to do via the administrator control panel.

2) Forum security.

Forum security is a big issue especially against spammers and those who
break the forum rules. Image based captcha comes as part of phpbb and
one needs to ensure the appropriate required packages are installed for
it to work.

Another issue is those people who break forum rules. Bans can be made
using a persons email address as well as ip address and vice versa to
ensure that a given person cannot re register.

Forum permissions are easy to manage as well as everyone ends up in a
group, and those groups are given particular permissions depending on
the group.

I am not sure if one already has an account on the wiki if phpbb can use
existing accounts in a particular database or someone would be required
to reregister again.

Another perk about using phpbb we can then customize it to have a TDF
look and feel.

Regards

Hi Jonathan

Cool - I think there are multiple persons here that would be interested
in working on and at a forum (and Q+A) site for sure.

Well, I was starting a reply to Florian's
- There are a couple of LibreOffice branded web forums up and running
already and then of course the mailing lists.

- it made sense to me to take a quick look at where things really are,
at the moment, to which end I've started pulling (maybe finished) some
numbers together here:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Drew/UserSupportTraffic




One thing i did forget to mention. If nabble is goign to be kept we can
link hot topics in the forums to closed discussions on the mailing list
directly to their appropriate section of the forum as well.

Right - well, actually one doesn't need Nabble for that at all - you can
link directly to an email in the TDF archive.

This is, I think, a better time to continue this conversation not so
much from the view of a web form features - but a bit more to see how
much interest there is from folks willing to help answer questions that
way - looking at those numbers on the wiki again one specific number
that should not be overlooked is the number of un-answered topics on the
phpBB de language forum - even inside the domain it's not a slam dunk -
the key is less the package (phpBB/Joomla/Drupal) and much more who is
actively watching out for activity.

//drew


Is there a way for all moderators to be emailed when there is a new 
thread or post to a thread with out requiring all posts to be approved 
by moderators?


Regards

Jonathan Aquilina

Get a signature like this. 
 
CLICK HERE. 
 



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Re: [tdf-discuss] phpbb for the official LO forums

[drew]

On Fri, 2011-11-04 at 16:00 +0100, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> On 04/11/2011 15:56, drew wrote:
> > On Fri, 2011-11-04 at 15:29 +0100, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> >> Hey guys I know there has been alot of chatter about user forums. Here
> >> is my suggestion.
> >>
> >> I am setting up my own forums using phpbb and here are a few points that
> >> i would like to make in regards to using it.
> >>
> >> 1) Localization
> >>
> >> I only need one language, but localization administration seems quite
> >> easy to do via the administrator control panel.
> >>
> >> 2) Forum security.
> >>
> >> Forum security is a big issue especially against spammers and those who
> >> break the forum rules. Image based captcha comes as part of phpbb and
> >> one needs to ensure the appropriate required packages are installed for
> >> it to work.
> >>
> >> Another issue is those people who break forum rules. Bans can be made
> >> using a persons email address as well as ip address and vice versa to
> >> ensure that a given person cannot re register.
> >>
> >> Forum permissions are easy to manage as well as everyone ends up in a
> >> group, and those groups are given particular permissions depending on
> >> the group.
> >>
> >> I am not sure if one already has an account on the wiki if phpbb can use
> >> existing accounts in a particular database or someone would be required
> >> to reregister again.
> >>
> >> Another perk about using phpbb we can then customize it to have a TDF
> >> look and feel.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> Hi Jonathan
> > Cool - I think there are multiple persons here that would be interested
> > in working on and at a forum (and Q+A) site for sure.
> >
> > Well, I was starting a reply to Florian's
> > - There are a couple of LibreOffice branded web forums up and running
> > already and then of course the mailing lists.
> >
> > - it made sense to me to take a quick look at where things really are,
> > at the moment, to which end I've started pulling (maybe finished) some
> > numbers together here:
> > https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Drew/UserSupportTraffic
> >


> >
> One thing i did forget to mention. If nabble is goign to be kept we can 
> link hot topics in the forums to closed discussions on the mailing list 
> directly to their appropriate section of the forum as well.

Right - well, actually one doesn't need Nabble for that at all - you can
link directly to an email in the TDF archive.

This is, I think, a better time to continue this conversation not so
much from the view of a web form features - but a bit more to see how
much interest there is from folks willing to help answer questions that
way - looking at those numbers on the wiki again one specific number
that should not be overlooked is the number of un-answered topics on the
phpBB de language forum - even inside the domain it's not a slam dunk -
the key is less the package (phpBB/Joomla/Drupal) and much more who is
actively watching out for activity.

//drew


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[tdf-discuss] Re: Show prominently on web site first page 64 bit problem.

[sjonnie]

merci jean-baptiste.

that is what it was all about.

by the way, nice clear website. 
i will be in bordeaux next week, and i will raise a glass in your honour.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Show prominently on web site first page 64 bit problem.

[Jean-Baptiste Faure]

Le 04/11/2011 15:55, Cor Nouws a écrit :
> Hi Sjonnie,
> 
> sjonnie wrote (04-11-11 15:39)
> 
>> back to my original point: i was only asking to put somewhere obvious
>> on the
>> website that there is a problem with JRE and 1.7.0.
> 
> Are you sure? I read " i think it is only fair to warn people with a 64
> bit OS that we do not function well on a 64 bit OS."

It is confusing but, on the FR site, I have put a warning about Java
which says : If you have a MS-Windows 64 bits, you still must install
Java 32 bits ...
I can't remember ATM from where comes this warning. I will search
reference this evening.

http://fr.libreoffice.org/telecharger/ -> Pré-requis Java

Best regards.
JBF

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[tdf-discuss] Re: Show prominently on web site first page 64 bit problem.

[sjonnie]

as i said: oh dear, oh dear.

now i have to mind my words.
whatever next.

and if this is not talking in a loud voice: 
"The solution is simple - DON'T USE JRE7.
I NEVER upgrade to the first (or second) version of a major upgrade to
ANYTHING. "
i do not know what is.

cheers, sjonnie.


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Re: [tdf-discuss] phpbb for the official LO forums

[Jonathan Aquilina]

On 04/11/2011 15:56, drew wrote:

On Fri, 2011-11-04 at 15:29 +0100, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:

Hey guys I know there has been alot of chatter about user forums. Here
is my suggestion.

I am setting up my own forums using phpbb and here are a few points that
i would like to make in regards to using it.

1) Localization

I only need one language, but localization administration seems quite
easy to do via the administrator control panel.

2) Forum security.

Forum security is a big issue especially against spammers and those who
break the forum rules. Image based captcha comes as part of phpbb and
one needs to ensure the appropriate required packages are installed for
it to work.

Another issue is those people who break forum rules. Bans can be made
using a persons email address as well as ip address and vice versa to
ensure that a given person cannot re register.

Forum permissions are easy to manage as well as everyone ends up in a
group, and those groups are given particular permissions depending on
the group.

I am not sure if one already has an account on the wiki if phpbb can use
existing accounts in a particular database or someone would be required
to reregister again.

Another perk about using phpbb we can then customize it to have a TDF
look and feel.

Regards

Hi Jonathan

Cool - I think there are multiple persons here that would be interested
in working on and at a forum (and Q+A) site for sure.

Well, I was starting a reply to Florian's
- There are a couple of LibreOffice branded web forums up and running
already and then of course the mailing lists.

- it made sense to me to take a quick look at where things really are,
at the moment, to which end I've started pulling (maybe finished) some
numbers together here:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Drew/UserSupportTraffic

Right now the libreoffice web forums are actually having a bit of a hard
time, IMO, getting a lot of traction. While the mailing lists are
performing fairly well I think, (it's all based on the size of the user
base, bottom line..right?)

Now the fact we don't link to any of those web properties directly (or
not liberally might be a better term) from the main project site(s) is
part of why the numbers are what they are, I believe.

So - I really would agree with where Florian is going when he says he
prefers the idea of - If a new site (forum), then lets do it within the
formal site structure..which I know you offered to setup/admin same on a
VM with the TDF infrastructure, I think that's a wonderful offer.

anyway - A few more thoughts as I can fit in later this morning.

Best wishes,

Drew Jensen





One thing i did forget to mention. If nabble is goign to be kept we can 
link hot topics in the forums to closed discussions on the mailing list 
directly to their appropriate section of the forum as well.


Regards

Jonathan Aquilina

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Re: [tdf-discuss] phpbb for the official LO forums

[drew]

On Fri, 2011-11-04 at 15:29 +0100, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> Hey guys I know there has been alot of chatter about user forums. Here 
> is my suggestion.
> 
> I am setting up my own forums using phpbb and here are a few points that 
> i would like to make in regards to using it.
> 
> 1) Localization
> 
> I only need one language, but localization administration seems quite 
> easy to do via the administrator control panel.
> 
> 2) Forum security.
> 
> Forum security is a big issue especially against spammers and those who 
> break the forum rules. Image based captcha comes as part of phpbb and 
> one needs to ensure the appropriate required packages are installed for 
> it to work.
> 
> Another issue is those people who break forum rules. Bans can be made 
> using a persons email address as well as ip address and vice versa to 
> ensure that a given person cannot re register.
> 
> Forum permissions are easy to manage as well as everyone ends up in a 
> group, and those groups are given particular permissions depending on 
> the group.
> 
> I am not sure if one already has an account on the wiki if phpbb can use 
> existing accounts in a particular database or someone would be required 
> to reregister again.
> 
> Another perk about using phpbb we can then customize it to have a TDF 
> look and feel.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Hi Jonathan

Cool - I think there are multiple persons here that would be interested
in working on and at a forum (and Q+A) site for sure. 

Well, I was starting a reply to Florian's 
- There are a couple of LibreOffice branded web forums up and running
already and then of course the mailing lists.

- it made sense to me to take a quick look at where things really are,
at the moment, to which end I've started pulling (maybe finished) some
numbers together here:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Drew/UserSupportTraffic

Right now the libreoffice web forums are actually having a bit of a hard
time, IMO, getting a lot of traction. While the mailing lists are
performing fairly well I think, (it's all based on the size of the user
base, bottom line..right?)

Now the fact we don't link to any of those web properties directly (or
not liberally might be a better term) from the main project site(s) is
part of why the numbers are what they are, I believe.

So - I really would agree with where Florian is going when he says he
prefers the idea of - If a new site (forum), then lets do it within the
formal site structure..which I know you offered to setup/admin same on a
VM with the TDF infrastructure, I think that's a wonderful offer.

anyway - A few more thoughts as I can fit in later this morning.

Best wishes,

Drew Jensen





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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Show prominently on web site first page 64 bit problem.

[Cor Nouws]

Hi Sjonnie,

sjonnie wrote (04-11-11 15:39)


back to my original point: i was only asking to put somewhere obvious on the
website that there is a problem with JRE and 1.7.0.


Are you sure? I read " i think it is only fair to warn people with a 64 
bit OS that we do not function well on a 64 bit OS."


We don't shout at you of course, but mind your words ;-)


anyway, have a good day you all.


Thanks, same for you and looking forward to meet.
Maybe T-Dose in Eindhoven?

Cheers,


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 - http://nl.libreoffice.org


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[tdf-discuss] Re: Good bye to all of the community members knowing my name...

[sjonnie]

thanks bernhard, for writing real interesting stuff, i learned a lot.

thanks again.

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[tdf-discuss] Re: Show prominently on web site first page 64 bit problem.

[sjonnie]

oh dear, oh dear.

i feel like standing in front of my father who also told me in a rather LOUD
voice that i am wasting my time with "this open source stuff".
and one of the fun things in life is for me to try new things and you know
what: i think i will continue.

back to my original point: i was only asking to put somewhere obvious on the
website that there is a problem with JRE and 1.7.0.
just to warn that group of people who go out and "aggressively" look for the
latest.
honest.
that was the only thing that i was asking for.

anyway, have a good day you all.

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[tdf-discuss] phpbb for the official LO forums

[Jonathan Aquilina]

Hey guys I know there has been alot of chatter about user forums. Here 
is my suggestion.


I am setting up my own forums using phpbb and here are a few points that 
i would like to make in regards to using it.


1) Localization

I only need one language, but localization administration seems quite 
easy to do via the administrator control panel.


2) Forum security.

Forum security is a big issue especially against spammers and those who 
break the forum rules. Image based captcha comes as part of phpbb and 
one needs to ensure the appropriate required packages are installed for 
it to work.


Another issue is those people who break forum rules. Bans can be made 
using a persons email address as well as ip address and vice versa to 
ensure that a given person cannot re register.


Forum permissions are easy to manage as well as everyone ends up in a 
group, and those groups are given particular permissions depending on 
the group.


I am not sure if one already has an account on the wiki if phpbb can use 
existing accounts in a particular database or someone would be required 
to reregister again.


Another perk about using phpbb we can then customize it to have a TDF 
look and feel.


Regards

Jonathan Aquilina

Get a signature like this. 
 
CLICK HERE. 
 



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[tdf-discuss] Re: Show prominently on web site first page 64 bit problem.

[Werner F. Bruhin]

On 11/04/2011 02:10 PM, sjonnie wrote:

problems with JRE.

if you look at  http://en.libreofficeforum.org/search/node/JRE this forum
search link you will see  they are not the only ones.
What I see on these links is that the problem is with Java 1.7 and IIRC 
official Java is still 1.6.


Maybe your friends were a bit "aggressive" in getting latest JAVA?

Werner


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Show prominently on web site first page 64 bit problem.

[Tanstaafl]

On 2011-11-04 9:29 AM, sjonnie  wrote:

OS is windows 7 ultimate sp1 with internet explo. completely locked up and
using firefox 7.

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39659  more talk about java
1.7.0


The solution is simple - DON'T USE JRE7.

This is a well known issue.

I NEVER upgrade to the first (or second) version of a major upgrade to 
ANYTHING. You're just asking for trouble.


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[tdf-discuss] Re: Show prominently on web site first page 64 bit problem.

[sjonnie]

more info:
both (they are brothers) tried to install  "LibO 3.4.4rc1 Win x86" that they
got via FileHippo.

OS is windows 7 ultimate sp1 with internet explo. completely locked up and
using firefox 7.

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39659 more talk about java
1.7.0 

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r26370595-Bug-LibreOffice-3.4.3-and-Java-v7.
and here as well 

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[tdf-discuss] Re: Show prominently on web site first page 64 bit problem.

[sjonnie]

problems with JRE.

if you look at  http://en.libreofficeforum.org/search/node/JRE this forum
search link you will see  they are not the only ones.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Show prominently on web site first page 64 bit problem.

[Tanstaafl]

On 2011-11-04 4:48 AM, sjonnie  wrote:

i think it is only fair to warn people with a 64 bit OS that we do not
function well on a 64 bit OS.

2 friends have asked for help since they bought a new laptop with a 64 bit
OS.

now they are pissed off because they were not told about this problem.


What problem? We are using LibO 3.4.3 32 bit on Windows 7 Pro 64 bit 
with zero issues...


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Show prominently on web site first page 64 bit problem.

[Jonathan Aquilina]

On 04/11/2011 09:48, sjonnie wrote:

i think it is only fair to warn people with a 64 bit OS that we do not
function well on a 64 bit OS.

2 friends have asked for help since they bought a new laptop with a 64 bit
OS.

now they are pissed off because they were not told about this problem.

not good for our reputation.

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64bit windows 7 still has a 32bit version of internet explorer. do they 
experience same issues using the 32bit internet explorer?


Regards

Jonathan Aquilina

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Associations around TDF

[Sophie Gautier]

Hi Jomar,

Sorry for the delay,

On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 7:14 PM, Jomar Silva  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I see an additional type of organization that could be considered her: 
> Liaisons.
>
> This type of association is something common inside standardization 
> organizations that have some area of common interest and where the work of 
> one organization can impact on the projects developed by the other ones (e.g. 
> OASIS and W3C and JTC1 SC 34).
>
> I volunteer to write more about that later, if you believe that this is 
> something useful for us.

Yes, thanks, I'm interested in reading you on this, that could be
really useful to have something documented on this type of
association.

Kind regards
Sophie
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Show prominently on web site first page 64 bit problem.

[Jesús Corrius]

> i think it is only fair to warn people with a 64 bit OS that we do not
> function well on a 64 bit OS.
>
> 2 friends have asked for help since they bought a new laptop with a 64 bit
> OS.
>
> now they are pissed off because they were not told about this problem.
>
> not good for our reputation.

You mean Windows 64 bits?

What kind of problems are they experiencing? Can you give us more
details about them?

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Will win64 native build exist on 3.5.0 or at least 3.5.x releases?

[Jesús Corrius]

> I also think that most of the LibreOffice Devs don't use the Office programs
> they are developing on a daily basis as a production tool. If they did, it
> would be obvious to them that an x64 build is needed to work on heavy
> documents.

If a heavy document doesn't work with the current x86 builds, please
open a bug report and attach the document to it. The more of them we
collect, the more obvious would be that we have to migrate.

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[tdf-discuss] Show prominently on web site first page 64 bit problem.

[sjonnie]

i think it is only fair to warn people with a 64 bit OS that we do not
function well on a 64 bit OS.

2 friends have asked for help since they bought a new laptop with a 64 bit
OS.

now they are pissed off because they were not told about this problem.

not good for our reputation.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: user forums ?

[Florian Effenberger]

Hi,

Christian Lohmaier wrote on 2011-11-03 16:17:


You cannot move threads to other topics, you cannot edit messages
afterwards, you cannot delete posts, you cannot mark posts as sticky
or "resolved", etc.


indeed, good points. However, I am not sure if this is what the majority 
of users would do anyways (althought it's agreeably a nice feature), but 
I think it's simply a "It doesn't look like a forum I know"-thing that 
keeps people from using it.


When people complained we have nothing like a forum, and I pointed them 
to Nabble, all I got was a "This is not a forum", without further 
explanation, which makes nailing down the problem a bit troublesome. ;-)



If LO is going to have an own forum, then there shall be a bunch of
moderators that are to ensure to keep the different topics organized,
ensure that a certain level of posting discipline is respected, make
sure that the repeated questions or spam-posts to just put an older
topic further up the list are kept to a minimum. Forum-Sheriffs if you
want to use a loaded term.


Yes, I agree. Moderators in forums are even more important than on 
mailing lists, because forums will attract more casual users to whom the 
term Netiquette does not ring any bell, usually. ;-)


It would be great, in case we go with own forums, to have a handful of 
moderators right from the beginning. If not, I would even be willing to 
see how things develop and have the guts to just do it. In case the 
forum gets just messy and has to be shut down, c'est la vie, but we at 
least tried it.


Florian

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