Re: [board-discuss] LibreOffice no longer in Apple store ?

[Italo Vignoli]

Hi Alex, some people see LibreOffice in the Apple Store, and some don't 
see it (I don't see it, and I see different things from you). We are 
investigating with Apple. The new version 7.4.4 was approved, and has 
been uploaded without issues as the previous one, so the behaviour is 
indeed strange.


On 1/13/23 09:34, Alexander Thurgood wrote:

Hello all,

A general question to the Board : has a decision been taken to remove 
LibreOffice from the Apple store (whether voluntarily or forced 
removal by Apple) ?


I ask because whilst searching today (13/01/2023) via the search bar 
of the store, there is only 1 LibreOffice specific result, and that is 
LibreOffice Viewer, being sold for 3,49 EUR, and figuring somewhere in 
the bottom quarter of all the results displayed.


Otherwise, sorting by relevance, the first occurrence of anything 
derived from OOo technology is NeoOffice (4th place), and Collabora 
Office (35th place).


The first 3 results, in order, are MS Word, MS Excel, MS Powerpoint.

Tried searching also with :

"Libre Office"

"libre office"

"libreoffice"

to no better effect (in fact, even worse, as NeoOffice gets shunted 
even further down).



Anyone on the board with knowledge of what is going on ?


Alex




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[board-discuss] Marketing/Community Budgets for 2023

[Italo Vignoli]

Let's do awesome things! Get support for your projects and ideas from 
TDF budget


Want to organise a local LibreOffice event? Need some merchandise to 
boost your project or community? Then we can help you!


The Document Foundation, the non-profit behind LibreOffice, is backed by 
contributions from ecosystem members and volunteers, as well as 
donations from end-users. This helps us to maintain TDF, but we can do a 
lot more too. And next year, we want to do a lot of projects again!


Each year, we set a budget that LibreOffice projects and communities can 
use for financial support. Some examples:


* Booking a location, and travel refunds for a local event (eg a 
translation sprint)

* Merchandise for community members, to use at events and conferences
* Infrastructure to start a new project (or help an existing one)

So if you have some ideas for a meetup, project or activity that could 
benefit from financial help, let us know! We can also assist you in 
other ways: our team members are there to help you, and enable you to do 
exciting and interesting things.


You don't need to work out all the technical details right now - the 
main thing is that we have an overview. To help us with planning, we 
kindly ask you to send your ideas by January 6, 2023, as we try to 
prepare the 2023 annual budget in January.


You can send your proposal (with estimated costs) to 
treasu...@documentfoundation.org and me...@documentfoundation.org, and 
we'll take a look. Of course, can't guarantee that everything will be 
considered and approved, but we'd love to hear your ideas!


Further reading:

Travel: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/Policies/Travel
Refunding: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/Policies/Refunding
Community Refunding: 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/Policies/Community_Refunds




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Re: [tdf-discuss] Official supported and still maintained Python package

[Italo Vignoli]

The Document Foundation is one of the main sponsors of the ODF (Open 
Document Format), and LibreOffice is the main implementation of ODF. We 
do not officially represent ODF, which is owned and maintained by OASIS, 
although we are probably the main ODF advocates. The Python packages you 
mention have not been developed within the ODF main project, and as such 
are not supported by OASIS. While I agree about the noise created by 
those packages, issues should be directed to their respective owners 
(developers).


On 11/28/22 11:42, c.bu...@posteo.jp wrote:

Hello,

I'm not sure if this is the correct list for my question. But don't 
you represent the OpenDocument format?


Looking around in the web I can find a lot of Python packages for 
reading and writing files in OpenDocument format. Based on the last 
commit date and the count of Issues and RPs, all of them seem 
unmaintained and out-dated.


Are you aware of an active project offering a Python package to write 
and read OpenDocument format files?

Do you officially support such a project?

Are you aware of the problem with lot of orphaned Python packages? 
IMHO this violates the intention of OpenDocument. The packages are 
outdated buggy etc. It is better to have none of that packages instead 
of having buggy ones. All the projects should be "collected" and 
validated by the foundation.


Kind
Christian


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[board-discuss] Proposal of Basic Lobby Activity on Behalf of TDF

[Italo Vignoli]

Following a request made on this list, which I filter (so, I won't read 
messages which are sent just to this list), this is the email I have 
sent to the Board of Directors.


---

In Milan it has been mentioned several times the need of increasing the 
presence of the LibreOffice community at EU level, to get more 
information about legislative activities, increase our profile and 
leverage the potential opportunities. I would like to start a structured 
activity based on the following actions:


1. Attend OFE (Open Forum Europe) meetings, both virtual and in person, 
to establish or reinforce the relationships with the other stakeholders, 
and get involved in activities targeted to the EU (at large). In 2022 
OFE has had two in person events (Brussels and Barcelona), and monthly 
online meetings.


2. Attend DIGIT and DG Connect events and workshops in Brussels, to 
reinforce the relationship with these structures, and make our voice 
heard on subjects such as FOSS, open standards and digital sovereignty.


3. Work with other stakeholders - FOSS related organizations such as 
OSBA and companies such a Murena, which have shown their commitment - at 
the creation and development of a lobbying activity in the common interest.


4. Of course, pursue other opportunities which are unforeseen at the 
moment (but could arise as an effect of the structured activities).


In term of budget, I forecast a yearly figure of € 6,000 maximum (based 
on 12 events during the year, which at the moment - missing a schedule - 
is a best guess).


I would manage the activities within my current relationship with TDF, 
and regularly report to the BoD on a regular basis in writing, and at 
least once per month in person during the BoD meeting to answer questions.


The first event to attend would be the DIGIT/DG Connect workshop in 
Brussels, scheduled on December 2 (expenses for this meeting, if 
approved, could be easily covered by 2022 marketing budget).


I therefore ask the BoD to approve/not to approve the activity ASAP, in 
order to organize the participation at the december workshop in due time.


---

Best regards.

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[board-discuss] Re: LibreOffice in app stores free, paid or both?

[Italo Vignoli]

We provide a free version to all users on our website, which can be 
installed with a negligible effort on Windows (to disable the block) and 
macOS (to allow software from third parties), so the version available 
from app stores should have a cost (not only to cover the additional 
effort and expenses, but also to educate users to make the small effort 
requested to install the free version, which is often THE excuse for not 
switching to free software).


On 7/11/22 15:52, Paolo Vecchi wrote:

Hi all,

I just wanted to ask the community how they think LibreOffice should 
be published in the various app stores.


Should it be:

a. available at a cost
b. free
c. both

As this is one of the items that will be discussed during tonight's 
board meeting, it would be great to have comments in writing and also 
having you in the meeting to share your point of view.


Ciao

Paolo


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[board-discuss] IMPORTANT UPDATE LibreOffice Conference

[Italo Vignoli]

We apologize for being silent about LibreOffice Conference 2022, but we 
have had significant but unforeseeable logistic issues in Bolzano when 
we have looked for available hotel rooms.


Even the local tourism authority has not been able to find more than a 
handful of rooms available for the last week of September, definitely 
not enough for the number of attendees we are expecting.


Luckily, there are other beautiful cities in Italy. To avoid similar 
issues, we have decided to explore Milan, as the number of conference 
venues and hotel rooms is so large that chances of finding somethig 
suitable was definitely higher.


In fact, we have found a beautiful conference space right behind Piazza 
del Duomo at Fondazione Culturale San Fedele, right in the center of the 
city, and rooms in hotels close to the metro (which reaches Piazza del 
Duomo). The conference will represent an opportunity to visit Milan, 
which is one of Italy's most beautiful cities.


We will share all logistic details before July 15. Together with the 
logistic details, we will share infos about places to see, and food & 
drinks to enjoy.


The dates of the conference have not changed: we will start on September 
28 with community meetings, while the conference will be on September 29 
and 30 (full day), and will close in the morning of October 1st.


People who want to attend the event can start looking at flights to one 
of Milan's three airports: Milan Linate (LIN), Milan Malpensa (MXP) and 
Bergamo Orio al Serio (BGY). Milan can be reached by high-speed train 
from Paris, and with long-distance trains from most of Europe.


As soon as we share logistic details, we also suggest people to look for 
hotel rooms based on the list of affordable hotels close to the metro we 
are putting together. Most of the hotels will be rather small, as large 
hotels are usually quite expensive.


Milan has a rather large metro network, and public transport which get 
almost everywhere. To get around the city with public transport, we use 
the Moovit smartphone app, which is quite helpful. Taxis are extremely 
expensive, and should be used only for emergencies (NEVER from and to 
airports, as there are cheap bus services).


Looking forward to meeting the community in Milan, nine years after 2013 
LibOCon hosted by the University of Milan.


Best regards, Italo

NOTE - Please share this message with your native language community


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Re: [board-discuss] Work On Update LOOL (was Re: LOOL is about to be archived)

[Italo Vignoli]

Replying from the smartphone.

The LibreOffice Technology umbrella brand has been developed to group all 
products based on the LibreOffice transactional engine, independently from 
their origin and from details which are irrelevant for the end user such as 
file's headers.

Prohibiting its use would be against the spirit and the objectives of the 
marketing plan, and would kill it forever (the label Community has already 
killed half of it, by providing a wrong message to the project stakeholders).

Best regards, Italo

25 Jun 2022 15:41:03 Paolo Vecchi :

> Hi Laszlo,
> 
> thanks for your engagement. Just a few notes as I've been directly involved 
> in proposing to get the community to be more involved with LOOL and to enjoy 
> it's use while trying to agree with the major code contributor a mutually 
> beneficial way to do it.
> 
> On 24/06/2022 17:27, laszlo.nem...@documentfoundation.org wrote:
>> 
>> We need not only a security warning, but clear information that the
>> recommended versions of LOOL are still CODE and Collabora Online 
>> (LibreOffice Technology (TM)).
> 
> I respectfully disagree.
> 
> We can surely promote the fact that there are members of the ecosystem that 
> provide support and other services that TDF does not provide for LibreOffice 
> Community on the desktop but then that's it.
> 
> As we are not, yet, delivering to our community LOOL Community we don't have 
> a supported edition to recommend. CODE and Collabora Online are just other 
> products from a member of the ecosystem that at present have no TDF's hosted 
> community version to refer to.
> 
> So at the end we cannot recommend an enterprise version of something we do 
> not publish.
> 
>> 
>> A few months ago my corporate client wasted time and money because they 
>> didn't notice on the
>> TDF site that LOOL is not actively developed.
> 
> It was a very unfortunate outcome and but it's a long time that we promote 
> the fact that corporate clients should seek adequate support services.
> 
> LOOL has been frozen, by a split board vote, due to the unilateral decision 
> of the major code contributor to fork and not contribute back.
> 
> You will find in the board-discuss archives several threads that try to 
> explain how hard the board worked to provide more support to members of the 
> ecosystem and to find a mutually beneficial agreement but once we made good 
> our side the agreement the other side just walked out.
> 
>> Thanks to the helpfulness of employees of
>> Collabora Productivity, now they can test its fork with an up-to-date 
>> LibreOffice in their intranet, and
>> started to contribute back to CODE (they have already been one of the 
>> biggest contributors
>> of LibreOffice Desktop).
> 
> It is good that your corporate client can enjoy the benefits of the combined 
> efforts in terms of code and lots of contributions from TDF and the wider 
> community.
> 
> Your corporate client made anyway the right choice as, unless they have a 
> very capable team able to fix bugs and contribute back to a community project 
> as LOOL was, then they should get support from other parties.
> 
>> 
>> Why do we need to emphasize that CODE/Collabora Online are the recommended 
>> versions (by TDF, too:
>> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/LibreOffice_Online#Current_Status)?
> 
> Thank you for pointing to that page that has been heavily edited since last 
> time I looked at it.
> 
> It now seems to be an advertising page for products for which TDF doesn't 
> have a community counterpart so I wonder if those changes shouldn't be 
> reverted.
> 
> 
>> Not only because LOOL was the idea and for the most part, product of 
>> Collabora Productivity,
>> but because the original core LOOL developers still work for Collabora in 
>> the spirit of the
>> free software: CODE is the only actively developed version of LOOL, and this 
>> is the only maintained
>> version which contributes back to LibreOffice actively.
> 
> LOOL has been "temporarily" frozen for a long time so or we take a decision 
> to bring it back to life, following suggestions that arrived in the past few 
> days, or there is no LOOL and as a consequence no alternatives to point to.
> 
> OSSII seems to show that it is possible to have both a commercial and a 
> community version, a bit of a shame that we couldn't find an agreement with a 
> major contributor of LOOL. If it will be possible to create clear rules for 
> cooperation, which might also include synergies to improve CJK handling, then 
> that could be a commercial offering available for enterprise users. Needs 
> more investigation.
> 
> Andreas options also requires investigation as it seems to involve 
> backporting of an Open Source project managed by a commercial provider. It 
> would be great to see if that commercial provider is also willing to 
> cooperate under clear rules so that we can refer back to their products for 
> enterprise users.
> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> If after 12 months we don't 

[board-discuss] IMPORTANT LibreOffice Conference

[Italo Vignoli]

We have been silent about the LibreOffice Conference because we are 
experiencing a few unexpected logistic issues. We are working hard to 
solve them as soon as possible, but in the meantime we ask you to wait 
before confirming your travel programs, or to get in touch with us if 
you have already booked your flights.


The objective is to keep the dates of the conference, but the location 
may change to another city. We will communicate the details in the next 
couple of weeks.


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[board-discuss] LibreOffice Conference 2022

[Italo Vignoli]

The LibreOffice Conference 2022 will be a hybrid event (in presence + 
remote) from September 28 (community day) to October 1st, with opening 
session on September 29 at 9:30AM and closing session on October 1st at 1PM.


The venue is NOI Tech Park in Bolzano/Bozen/Bulsan (trilingual area) in 
South Tyrol (Northern Italy), a very well known location for FOSS and 
the home of the SFScon (South Tyrol FOSS Conference).


We will publish the official announcement on the blog and social media, 
including the sponsorship packages for the ecosystem companies, later 
this week.


Best regards, Italo

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[board-discuss] The Document Foundation suspends RusBITech from its Advisory Board

[Italo Vignoli]

We have just published the following statement on TDF blog:

Following a short exchange of opinions with several community members, 
as of Saturday 26th of February 2022, TDF has suspended RusBITech’s 
membership in the Advisory Board.


While TDF does not get involved in politics in any way, the apparent 
involvement of RusBITech with the Russian Federation’s military complex 
creates a serious moral concern in the current situation.


We have reached out to RusBITech to explain why suspending – and 
possibly cancelling – their membership is a necessary step, based on the 
information we have been able to gather from their website and other 
trusted online sources. In the past, we have worked constructively with 
RusBITech’s representatives, and the decision is in no way related to 
the people themselves and our cooperation around free open source software.


The Document Foundation asks all FOSS advocates and supporters, and all 
LibreOffice community members, contributors and users across the world 
to work for peace in these challenging times, and hopes sincerely that 
the current crisis will soon be over. We will reassess our decision 
after that.


Further updates will be published when more information will be made 
available.


The Board of The Document Foundation

https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2022/02/28/the-document-foundation-suspends-rusbitech-from-its-advisory-board/
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Re: [board-discuss] Re: Enable TDF to contribute more code to LibreOffice with in-house developers to address our donors specific needs

[Italo Vignoli]

On 2/10/22 17:27, Jan Holesovsky wrote:


Yes, but it looks like the discussion is blocked one step before
reaching a consensus on this very simple point. If the discussion
stays
as such, I have to say that I don't feel I am represented - as a TDF
Member - by any member of the just elected board of directors (of
course, those who have expressed their opinions).



This is very sad to hear :-(  I am afraid this is a product of the
unilateral & vigorous presentation of hiring developers as the only way
forward, regardless of what the ecosystem companies have to say.


I disagree. This is the result of BoD members pointing fingers to each 
other without even trying to start a discussion and reach consensus.


I would have applauded a reaction to the message that has opened this 
thread which was integrating the proposal with some additional thoughts 
and suggestions, to specify which could be the areas where a developer 
hired by TDF could work for the common benefit of the project.


Sorry, but I haven't seen anything like this so far.
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Re: [board-discuss] Re: Enable TDF to contribute more code to LibreOffice with in-house developers to address our donors specific needs

[Italo Vignoli]

On 2/10/22 17:53, Michael Meeks wrote:

 It would be deeply unfortunate if the above was read as questioning 
the legitimacy and composition of the new board - and that before they 
have been seated and/or taken a single decision. It would be good to 
clarify that reading.


I am not questioning the legitimacy and composition of the board, I am 
questioning the behaviour of its members.

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Re: [board-discuss] Enable TDF to contribute more code to LibreOffice with in-house developers to address our donors specific needs

[Italo Vignoli]

On 2/10/22 14:56, Jan Holesovsky wrote:


Comes to my mind - as you deal with the donors daily, and particularly
ask them why do they want to stop their recurring donations (in case
they do), I wonder if there is an aggregated data available somewhere?


The majority of recurring donations is stopped immediately after the 
first donation by the donor, when he gets the receipt and realizes that 
he has triggered a recurring donation instead of a one off.


Then there is a number of donors who ask to stop the recurring donation. 
Some of them provide a reason, which in some cases is that he wanted to 
donate once and not on a recurring basis, in some cases lack of money, 
and in some other because they don't use the software anymore (no bug or 
other technical reason provided).


A small number of donors block donations because the software doesn't 
fit their needs or is too difficult to use (again, without providing any 
technical reason or a bug).


You should always consider the fact that only a very small number of 
users is capable of spotting bugs, as for them the software always works 
as intended. It took me several years to get a marginal understanding of 
bugs, and I have been working in technology environments since 1982. The 
majority of users is technically dumb, including people who are supposed 
to be competent, and this is just a fact.



Also, in case it is a concrete problem that stops them donating any
longer, please do you have an opportunity to file bugzilla tickets for
such cases?


Since 2013, not a single user has related stopping donations with bugs, 
while some donors have related their donation to solving bugs.


Best regards, Italo
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[board-discuss] Vote about Certification Updates

[Italo Vignoli]

As agreed during the last BoD call (July 2nd), I would like the BoD to 
approve the following:


1. Develop a training for certification (attached), which allows to 
access the "LibreOffice Certified" entry level (without specification 
about migrations and training), after the usual certification review. 
Once the training for certification has been approved, it will be 
transformed into a series of online training classes provided through 
Udemy (which seems to be almost a standard for certification training, 
as it is used by Microsoft, Oracle and Cisco, plus others).


2. Keep the current "Migration Professional" and "Professional Trainer" 
as main level certification for people who have a hands-on experience in 
migrations or training (exactly as in the past). People with LibreOffice 
Certification could apply for Professional Certification after 12 months 
from the first certification, based on a migration/training project with 
extensive documentation (a detailed report of the migration project, or 
a detailed evaluation of the training project). Only people with full 
pre-requisites compliance can directly access Professional Certification 
without going through LibreOffice Certification.


3. Create the certification training for single applications: 
"LibreOffice Writer/Calc/Impress/Draw/Base Certified Trainer", which is 
simple and uncontroversial.


4. Create a "Senior Migration Professional" and a "Senior Professional 
Trainer" certifications, only for certified professionals who have been 
active in the project for a while and contribute as volunteers in some area.


5. Update all certification related documents to reflect all the above.

Thanks, Italo

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Description: application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.presentation

[tdf-discuss] Re: Reach out for ad space

[Italo Vignoli]

Hi, we are not accepting any kind of advertising on our web properties, 
independently from the topic. Best regards.


On 6/2/21 3:03 PM, jason...@elorbita.com wrote:

"Hello,

  We are interested in advertising. We want to advertise guest article 
on your site planet.documentfoundation.org. Our article will be written 
according to your site theme and will include a link to a betting site.


  What is the rate for this?

  IMPORTANT: If you are not accepting links to gambling site we might be 
still interested, Please mention the rate for regular links as well


  Skype: shanker2020
  Telegram 9966160005
  WhatsApp number: 9966160005

  Thank you"




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[board-discuss] Re: Reach out for ad space

[Italo Vignoli]

Hi, we are not accepting any kind of advertising on our web properties, 
independently from the topic. Best regards.


On 6/2/21 3:03 PM, jason...@elorbita.com wrote:

"Hello,

  We are interested in advertising. We want to advertise guest article 
on your site planet.documentfoundation.org. Our article will be written 
according to your site theme and will include a link to a betting site.


  What is the rate for this?

  IMPORTANT: If you are not accepting links to gambling site we might be 
still interested, Please mention the rate for regular links as well


  Skype: shanker2020
  Telegram 9966160005
  WhatsApp number: 9966160005

  Thank you"




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[tdf-discuss] Re: Mirror Review Magazine Invites LibreOffice as one of "The 10 Renowned Document Management Companies, 2021."

[Italo Vignoli]

Hi Jacob,

LibreOffice main focus is personal productivity, or document creation 
and sharing, which is quite different from document management. Also, we 
are supported by donations, which are focused on the development of the 
software and the community. We do not have any marketing budget for 
advertising. So, we are not interested.


Thanks and best regards, Italo

On 5/25/21 6:49 PM, Jacob Eddy wrote:

Hi Italo,

I am Jacob From *Mirror Review Magazine* 
<https://www.mirrorreview.com/magazines/>and I would like to invite 
*LibreOffice *toget featured in our latest magazine issue, */“The 10 
/Renowned /Document Management Companies, 2021.”/*


As industrialization is picking its pace, we can observe that the 
intensity of competition in the market has spiked. Today, every other 
company relies on data as its main source of information. The 
involvement of data can’t be ignored in today’s time, especially when 
everything is digital. Management of data is an art and requires years 
of experience and skill to master it. This is the reason why companies 
like yours have been so successful in assisting clients. We as a leading 
business magazine understand the importance and relevance of data in 
today’s time. This has motivated us to work towards our latest issue, 
*/“/**/The 10 /**Renowned **/Document Management Companies, 2021.”/*


**

In this magazine issue, we will focus on various unique 
solutions/services offered by the company to its clientele. Alongside, 
we will emphasize the entrepreneurial journey of the featured leader. 
This will help several other aspiring entrepreneurs to derive motivation 
from the inspiring journey. Moreover, our unique business storytelling 
style has received constant praise from the featured companies and 
leaders. Our well-established platform will help you to increase your 
reach to a wide range of clientele.


To increase your visibility among the peers, we will be providing you 
the following benefits with this opportunity:


 1. A 2 full-page *Article*, unfolding your company’s story,
highlighting the services you provide and achievements of your company.
 2. A 2 full-pages *CXO Article* (an article on any industry topic by
the concerned person) that can be used in any of our upcoming magazines.
 3. A full-page *Advertisement *of your company (upcoming product line,
events etc.) which can be placed in any of our upcoming magazine (of
the same year).
 4. A print-ready *HD PDF* of your article with reprint rights.
 5. *Press Releases* that you can post on various media channels.
 6. The *Logo of Listing* and online company profile links that can be
used on your website, media, press release, etc.
 7. A *soft copy of the certificate* by Mirror Review, attributing you
as one of/*“*/*/The 10 /**Renowned **/Document Management Companies,
2021/**/.”/*
 8. A* backlink* to your company’s website which remains on our archives
permanently.

Please note that this suite of branding and marketing practices comes 
with a sponsorship cost of *USD 500.*


**

*Process *: Once you confirm your participation, we will send you a 
contract form for your signature. Following that, we will send you an 
interview questionnaire, which will be referred to write your magazine 
profile. Our editorial team will pen down a creative story, which will 
be sent to you for your approval.


If you have any queries or need any information regarding this 
opportunity, please let us know.


Looking forward to have a word with you soon.

Thanks and Regards,

Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: 
cid:image001.jpg@01D6EF6C.C834FAB0




*Jacob Eddy*

*Business Development Manager *| *Mirror Review*

Tel: +1(740) 521-9306

Mail: ja...@mirrorreview.com <mailto:ja...@mirrorreview.com>

Web: www.mirrorreview.com <http://www.mirrorreview.com/>

Description: cid:image002.png@01D73517.F5793400 
<https://www.facebook.com/mirrorreviewofficial/>Description: 
cid:image003.png@01D73517.F5793400 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/13446144/>Description: 
cid:image004.png@01D73517.F5793400 
<https://twitter.com/MirrorReview1>Description: 
cid:image005.png@01D73517.F5793400 <https://www.instagram.com/mirrorreview>


//


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Re: [board-discuss] TDF Advisory Board Members

[Italo Vignoli]

OSI statement: https://opensource.org/OSI_Response

On 3/23/21 6:46 PM, Simon Phipps wrote:
I'll be more direct than Andreas in this matter. Given the FSF Board has 
demonstrated[1] that it is aware that reappointing RMS would be regarded 
as bad judgement by everyone at LibrePlanet, and given other 
organisations[2] are choosing to disconnect FSF from their governance, 
TDF's Board should also consider removal of FSF from their advisory 
board, at least temporarily until it has achieved representative 
governance.


S.


[1] https://twitter.com/fsf/status/1374399897558917128?s=20 
<https://twitter.com/fsf/status/1374399897558917128?s=20>
[2] https://www.outreachy.org/blog/2021-03-23/fsf-participation-barred/ 
<https://www.outreachy.org/blog/2021-03-23/fsf-participation-barred/>


On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 10:08 AM Andreas Mantke <mailto:ma...@gmx.de>> wrote:


Hi,

I read about the change in the board of the FSF, a member of the TDF
Advisory Board:


https://www.zdnet.com/article/richard-m-stallman-returns-to-the-free-software-foundation-board-of-directors/

<https://www.zdnet.com/article/richard-m-stallman-returns-to-the-free-software-foundation-board-of-directors/>

There are a lot of contributors in the Free Software business, which are
seeing this change toxic for this business.

What's the position of TDF board on this topic? And how to proceed with
the Advisory Board membership?

Regards,
Andreas



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Re: [board-discuss] LibreOffice 7.1 marketing plan and label ("tag")

[Italo Vignoli]

On 12/15/20 6:41 PM, Thorsten Behrens wrote:

> I personally like 'Rolling' a lot, it just appears we can't pull it
> off for 7.1.

But the label is "community", which is really impossible to associate
with the idea of anything "rolling", which means that the label will not
help here.

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[board-discuss] LibreOffice 7.1 marketing plan and label ("tag")

[Italo Vignoli]

On 12/15/20 2:38 AM, Brett Cornwall wrote:

> Of note is that all of this has not been soliciting the feedback of the
> target audience. We need to know what works with the target audience -
> the so-called "freeloaders", the entire point of this change - to
> measure the effectiveness of such a change. Anything less results in
> wild speculation with an unknown result until the change is pushed and
> is "tested in production".

Actually, a panel representing the target audience was solicited, and
the answer was "personal". That proposal, which was considered as BS by
several people, was done for free by a friend of mine - a Senior VP of
Interbrand, the leading branding agency worldwide - on their panel of
naming experts.

Of course, as they did it for free on a friendly basis (it usually costs
from 50K US dollars up), we didn't get the usual report they produce for
similar naming projects. But for a bottle of Sagrantino and some salami
from Norcia (both from my birthplace) we couldn't expect it.

> While it's admirable that the contributing community was consulted we're
> only collecting data from a specific group of nerds, not the "real
> world". That "rolling" made it to final votes is a testament to that
> fact...

While "rolling" is a term associated to software releases only by nerds,
the "rolling" concept can easily be associated with something moving
forward by normal people.

So, if you de-couple "rolling" from "release", and couple it with "idea"
or "object" you get the feeling of what could be the positioning if the
choice was "rolling" (very similar to "advance").

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Re: [board-discuss] [DECISION] LibreOffice Online - repository and translations

[Italo Vignoli]

Page has been updated, apologies

On 12/2/20 3:02 PM, Lionel Élie Mamane wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 02, 2020 at 12:23:22PM +0100, Florian Effenberger wrote:
> 
> 
>> As the vote is a tied vote, § 9 IV of the statutes come to
>> effect. The Chairperson has the deciding vote, and voted +1 to the
>> proposal.
> 
> Interestingly, https://www.documentfoundation.org/governance/board/
> doesn't say who the chair is :)
> 

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Re: [tdf-members] [board-discuss] Re: Personal: and software freedom.

[Italo Vignoli]

On 11/25/20 12:30 PM, Edmund Laugasson wrote:

> Does this mean also separate software development, files to download and
> LibreOffice functionality in different versions listed below? If so,
> then I don't approve this. Imagine separate software packages with
> different functionality to download for each of LibreOffice version in
> that list. This will fragment LibreOffice and makes it copy proprietary
> software approach and basically means commercialization. Certainly we
> need engage more people, organizations, enteprises, etc but with
> different kind of services (nowadays remotely appreciated). If it is so,
> then it's fine.

A change of license, features, and development strategy has never been
under discussion. The discussion is about labels to be used to improve
targeting of the marketing strategy.

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[board-discuss] REMINDER Discussion about Marketing Plan

[Italo Vignoli]

Please do remind that the next discussion about the marketing plan is
scheduled for tomorrow, Wednesday, November 11, at 3PM CET (Berlin time)
/ 2PM UTC in this room: https://jitsi.documentfoundation.org/plan.

Of course, this is not intended to replace the discussion on the
marketing mailing list, which is open until November 15.

Focusing on action items, the discussion is open on the following:

1. Product Label for the community supported version provided by TDF
(i.e. Personal or Community or other proposals)
1.1 Proposals and discussion on the public marketing list by November 15
1.2 If necessary, vote for decision only by TDF Members by November 25
1.3 Final board decision during one of the December meetings, before
string freeze for 7.1 (due end of January early February)
TOPICS TO DISCUSS
1. Label (no label is not an option)
2. Where to position the label: title bar, about box, start center

2. LibreOffice Technology ingredient brand
2.1 Marketing will collect ideas and suggestions about the use of the
ingredient brand by November 10, and then will summarize them in a guide
2.2 Board will comment, update and approve the guide by November 25
TOPICS TO DISCUSS
1. LibreOffice Technology ingredient brand
2. Who should use it and where (i.e. just on products, products and
marketing materials, other places)

3. LibreOffice Enterprise label
2.1 Marketing will collect ideas and suggestions about the use of the
ingredient brand by November 10, and then will summarize them in a guide
2.2 Board will comment, update and approve the guide by November 25
TOPICS TO DISCUSS
1. LibreOffice Enterprise label
2. Who should use it and where (i.e. just on products, products and
marketing materials, other places)

4. LibreOffice Certification
Discussion will happen on the certification mailing list after LibOCon,
for decision by November 25 and BoD approval by December for deployment
in 2021

5. LibreOffice Online
For the time being, this discussion is on hold until a formal statement
from the BoD will clarify the situation WRT the development at TDF.

Looking forward to the discussion on the global marketing list (for
those not subscribed, the address is market...@global.libreoffice.org).

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[board-discuss] Community/Marketing Budgets 2021

[Italo Vignoli]

Dear members of LibreOffice native language communities,
We are going through challenging times, for reasons which have nothing
to do with free open source software. The pandemic is hitting hard every
geography, and as a consequence all activities are slowed down or delayed.

In 2020, we were supposed to organize events and other face-to-face
meetings, and this was reflected by approved budget requests. Because of
the situation, the majority of the budget has not been spent.

On the other hand, we want to support your community and marketing
activities under the new conditions, where the majority of countries is
under partial or total lockdowns, or – in the best of cases – with
constrained mobility.

The situation is not going to change for the foreseeable future, so for
the first six months of 2021, if not for the entire year.

So, we have to schedule in advance marketing/community activities, to
approve the budget as soon as possible – hopefully before the end of
2020 or very early in 2021 – and have the time to get organized.

We are therefore asking native language communities to provide the
following:

1. A list of objectives you would like to pursue in 2021. Please avoid
wishful thinking, and stick to achievable objectives. A few examples:
organize a virtual meeting with public administrations to educate them
about LibreOffice and ODF; organize a local Virtual LibreOffice
Conference; support local groups organizing activities – from remote –
in schools and universities; etc.

2. For each objective, provide a rationale and a sensible amount of
money. Again, we are spending donations money, and we must be extremely
cautious both with requests and with approvals. Requests missing a
rationale or spending details (easy to understand) will not be approved.

3. For requests equal or exceeding 1,000 euro, you must provide the
outline of a project, because a large amount of money is probably
covering different expense chapters (infrastructure, suppliers, OOP
money) and budget approvers should be allowed to have a clear picture of
what they approve.

Examples of activities which TDF will provide a budget for:

1. virtual community events (aimed at getting face-time for contributors)

2. marketing activities (aimed at representing the project to the
outside world)

3. community events in presence (only if possible according to the local
law)

4. targeted projects (for instance, promoting LibreOffice in schools)

In addition, we ask you to provide a list, if any, of infrastructure
related requests, such as - for example - additional computing power or
new services for your native language community.

The idea is to have a good plan for 2021 as soon as possible, while
keeping the administrative overhead low, and have two authorizers
responsible for the final approval of the budget.

TDF BoD will provide a budget bucket for marketing and a budget bucket
for community. Budget requests will be associated to the relevant
budget, and then approved by budget approvers (according to the
availability of funds).

##

Before sending any budget request, please read carefully TDF
reimbursement policies:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/Policies/Community_Refunds.

Deadline for the submission is November 30, 2020. Submission should be
sent to treasu...@documentfoundation.org, with copy to
so...@libreoffice.org, flo...@documentfoundation.org and
it...@libreoffice.org.

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[board-discuss] IMPORTANT Discussion about Marketing Plan

[Italo Vignoli]

To facilitate discussion about the marketing plan, I will be available
in the following Jitsi room https://jitsi.documentfoundation.org/plan
between 3PM and 4:30PM CET (Berlin time) on Wednesday November 4 and
Wednesday November 11.

If you cannot attend because you are busy, please suggest a different
schedule between 9AM and midnight Berlin time (CET or UTC+1), and I will
try to organize my agenda to be available at the desired day and time.

Of course, this is not intended to replace the discussion on the
marketing mailing list, which is open until November 15.

Focusing on action items, the discussion is open on the following:

1. Product Label for the community supported version provided by TDF
(i.e. Personal or Community or other proposals)
1.1 Proposals and discussion on the public marketing list by November 15
1.2 If necessary, vote for decision only by TDF Members by November 25
1.3 Final board decision during one of the December meetings, before
string freeze for 7.1 (due end of January early February)
TOPICS TO DISCUSS
1. Label (no label is not an option)
2. Where to position the label: title bar, about box, start center

2. LibreOffice Technology ingredient brand
2.1 Marketing will collect ideas and suggestions about the use of the
ingredient brand by November 10, and then will summarize them in a guide
2.2 Board will comment, update and approve the guide by November 25
TOPICS TO DISCUSS
1. LibreOffice Technology ingredient brand
2. Who should use it and where (i.e. just on products, products and
marketing materials, other places)

3. LibreOffice Enterprise label
2.1 Marketing will collect ideas and suggestions about the use of the
ingredient brand by November 10, and then will summarize them in a guide
2.2 Board will comment, update and approve the guide by November 25
TOPICS TO DISCUSS
1. LibreOffice Enterprise label
2. Who should use it and where (i.e. just on products, products and
marketing materials, other places)

4. LibreOffice Certification
Discussion will happen on the certification mailing list after LibOCon,
for decision by November 25 and BoD approval by December for deployment
in 2021

5. LibreOffice Online
For the time being, this discussion is on hold until a formal statement
from the BoD will clarify the situation WRT the development at TDF.

Looking forward to the discussion on the global marketing list (for
those not subscribed, the address is market...@global.libreoffice.org).

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[board-discuss] Discussion about Marketing Plan

[Italo Vignoli]

1. Discussions abut the marketing plan happening here will be ignored,
as clearly stated in the message where we asked for contributions only
on the marketing mailing list

2. Opinions of people who decided that contributing to the discussion
could include insults to other people (such as, what you are saying is
utter bullshit) will be ignored, because they have not behaved as good
community citizens (so, refrain from writing on the marketing list, as
your opinion will not be considered in any case)

3. Sorry, but "no label is not an option" is rather clear as a
statement, this is backed by the BoD because the rationale is rather
clear, and if we want to have a comprehensive marketing plan where all
ecosystem members are involved we need a label (so, again, no label is
not an option)

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Re: [board-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] The Edition Matter

[Italo Vignoli]

 other editions to confirm they too are approved by
>>> TDF.
>>>
>>> The term "Community Edition" is very commonly used to differentiate
>>> feature-limited versions so if I had to choose, I would rather our
>>> version
>>> was considered strong because we use an "Official Edition" tag rather
>>> than
>>> the software produced by others being considered stronger because we
>>> use a
>>> "Community Edition" tag.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Simon
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 3:16 PM Nigel Verity 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Doesn't this imply there are some unofficial and, thereby,
>>>> untrustworthy
>>>> editions in circulation?
>>>>
>>>> Nige
>>>>
>>>>> On 23 Oct 2020, at 06:44, Simon Phipps  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Taking on board all the concerns about not giving the impression of a
>>>>> weaker version, and if "no label" is really not an option, how about
>>>>> calling TDF's package "official edition"?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
> 
> 

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Re: [board-discuss] Agenda for TDF board meeting on Friday, September 25th at 1300 Berlin time (UTC+2)

[Italo Vignoli]

Constructive discussions and inputs collected from all channels were reflected 
in the second iteration of the marketing plan, which in fact is substantially 
different from the first one.

[board-discuss] Re: [tdf-members] Agenda for TDF board meeting on Friday, September 25th at 1300 Berlin time (UTC+2)

[Italo Vignoli]

On 9/23/20 11:32 AM, Florian Effenberger wrote:

>  a) LibreOffice 7.0/7.1 marketing plan
>     URL: https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/issues/3206
>     Status: Paolo, Franklin, Michael, Thorsten, Mike, Italo continue
> working on this, Follow-on meeting was done, information/what is
> uncontroversial and could be decided to be done now

Redmine ticket has been updated with a link to the third iteration of
the strategic marcom plan.

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Re: [board-discuss] MCC questions ..

[Italo Vignoli]

On 9/9/20 11:29 PM, Cor Nouws wrote:

> This is a very interesting point. 4k people in Weblate, so that would be
> 350 persons or so on average for every language that LibreOffice supports?

Although I have a degree in humanities, I am still capable of handling
basic operations: 4000 divided by 140 active language projects gives as
a result 28.6, quite a smaller figure. Even if we consider only the 119
available languages, the figure is 33.6.

>> I think that a solution to this issue is to reach out to native language
>> communities, especially outside Europe, where the relationship with the
>> core group is less strong.

> I think we have to recognize that the number of 4k people there is very
> high. Even if say 10% would contribute (...) it is unrealistic to expect
> that their membership will help with a balanced, strong governance of
> the foundation.

According to the statutes, if they contribute they can become TDF
members. Statutes do not mention at all the way their membership can
help a balanced and strong governance of the foundation. And in any
case, how each TDF member helps a balanced and strong governance falls
under the personal judgement, and here each one may have a completely
different point of view.

> Yet, having them on our side showing support, spreading the word, is
> important. And the same applies in the area of e.g. marketing and
> design. We do want to value the support also from people that help on a
> booth or do a local presentation 2, 3 times a year and have them engaged.
> Is it necessary to try to make them all member? Growing membership is
> not a goal of the community.

My opinion is completely different here, and I think there are several
other people who share my point of view. Actually, several people asked
about ideas to grow the membership by involving more contributors.

> More important is that the board of
> trustees is composed in a way, that this supports that people who
> are doing the hard and essential work of development will also be
> leading their own work. We cannot afford that the meritocracy
> disappears; this is undesired.

Sorry, but I completely disagree here. Having a board of trustees based
only on developers would be as bad as having a board of trustees without
developers, and would kill meritocracy in both cases.

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Re: [board-discuss] MCC questions ..

[Italo Vignoli]

On 9/4/20 4:26 PM, Michael Meeks wrote:

>   Sorry for that. The essence of the question is simple - if you
> want to grow the membership there are at least these two approaches:

>   + encourage more people to contribute more to meet
> the criteria
> or
>   + lower the criteria for membership

There is a third solution: convince more contributors to apply for
membership, as many of them do not even know that it is possible to
become TDF members by contributing to LibreOffice.

For instance, we have over 4K people registered on weblate, or 20 times
as many TDF members. Of course, many of them would not qualify as their
contribution is marginal, but many would.

I think that a solution to this issue is to reach out to native language
communities, especially outside Europe, where the relationship with the
core group is less strong.

>   I would hope that:

> "* How do you believe we can improve the existing election
>system - assuming the statutes can be tweaked ?"

>   Is a legitimate question for the MC candidates ?

I think the question is legitimate if you take away the last portion:
"assuming the statutes can be tweaked". I do not see how the statutes
can be tweaked, but I think that they can be applied with some added
flexibility ("flexible" is different from "tweaked").

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Re: [board-discuss] New Version of Strategic Marcom Plan

[Italo Vignoli]

On 7/16/20 11:36 PM, Uwe Altmann wrote:

> Slide 28
> What is the surplus of the sum of "volonteers" and "ecosystem" to form the 
> "community"? Users? Takers?

That is a visual representation of the relationships between volunteers
and ecosystem inside the community, and has no relation with the size of
the constituents. So outside community and ecosystem there is nothing,
but an oval which contains both smaller ovals to show that they are part
of the same community has some extra space as a consequence of the oval
shape (if I has used circles, the extra space would have been bigger).

> And my "ceterum censeo..."
> Slide 49/50
> This is why I and some others propose "" set as TDB - so we get "LibreOffice" 
> and "LibreOffice Enterprise,[brought to you by XYZ]" as a result. This avoids 
> all of the possible negative connotations each of the proposed "additions" to 
> the build distributed by TDF brings. And allows the intended discrimination 
> as well:
> Basically we say there is a "LibreOffice" (vanilla) and "LibreOffice with 
> benefits" (Enterprise,...) - and that's exactly what we want to tell the 
> people, isn't it?

We have to find a solution where there is consensus by all parties, and
it looks that consensus is partially missing on the one you suggest.

I may or may not agree with the proposed solutions (there will be a day
when I will write a lengthy blog post where I will tell in a transparent
way what I think about this story and the people involved, but this is
not the right time), so the objective is to reach consensus with an
acceptable compromise.

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Re: [board-discuss] New Version of Strategic Marcom Plan

[Italo Vignoli]

On 7/15/20 6:36 PM, Kev M wrote:

> I still don't like slide 46: "...focused on needs of individual users" -
> Why can't it say only "you are using the volunteer supported version of
> LibreOffice" - or "you are using the volunteer supported version of
> LibreOffice, this version does for enterprise/professional support
> services please see [URL to Enterprise page]"

That has still to be discussed.

> Slides 49 & 50:
> I think the board will have to vote on this. Italo's perspective is the
> opposite of some of the other engaged users on this issue. Based on the
> slides, he sees Personal as implying no restrictions, while Community
> does. Others, see it from the perspective that Community implies no
> restrictions, while Personal does. Aside from doing a randomized market
> research survey of 1,000 respondents there will be no empirically
> researched right answer.

Actually, the name Personal has been suggested by a branding specialist,
based on a knowledge database of thousands of names (he is a friend and
a former colleague, so I paid him with rigatoni alla gricia and a good
bottle of red wine, but he is usually far more expensive).

> Slide 55:
> .business is and improvement to .biz (at least in North America), but
> why not Libreoffice.com for the commercial version, and Libreoffice.org
> for the Community, etc. version?

Because libreoffice.com is owned by TDF, and we cannot promote an
enterprise product on a TDF web property, as otherwise we would risk to
lose our charitable status. So, we need a compromise.

> 62: Strongly suggest not adding a Start Screen to LibreOffice online for
> UX reasons. There's no need to create a barrier to accessing documents
> online when none of the other providers have this layer.

The document just confirms that the start screen is missing, and does
not even hint to add one.

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Re: [board-discuss] New Version of Strategic Marcom Plan

[Italo Vignoli]

On 7/15/20 6:36 PM, Kev M wrote:

> I don't know what the acronym USP means.

Unique Selling Proposition

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[board-discuss] New Version of Strategic Marcom Plan

[Italo Vignoli]

A new version of the strategic marcom plan has been uploaded to
Nextcloud: https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/4pLtn9xn76BkxFK

Please refer to this version for your comment, as it clarifies some
specific points which were raised during the discussion, although not
mentioned at all in the previous slide deck.

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Re: [board-discuss] Some problems.

[Italo Vignoli]

On 7/13/20 12:01 PM, Uwe Altmann wrote:

> Therefor look for advice from marketing experts (NOT of sales or PR or 
> communication or the like professionals who call themselves "marketing 
> expert"!) (sorry Italo, you are undoubtedly a highly qualified communications 
> professional, but you're not doing marketing in my sense).

Thanks for the appreciation as communications professional. By the way
during my career I have been Vice President Marketing for Honeywell IS,
which at the time was second only to IBM in the computer business, then
- as a consultant - Marketing Manager Europe for Adobe, in charge of all
activities for PDF and Photoshop (both products were not doing so bad)
from 1989 to 1999, when I was hired by Macromedia to launch the Internet
product suite (Dreamweaver and all the associated products, but that was
indeed a less successful experience), and then I moved - always as a
consultant - to Dell in Italy until 2004.

I have been in marketing roles from 1981 to 2004, or 23 years, although
for quite some time I have had a different "formal" role as the company
I was working for was not focused on marketing specific consultancy.

I have attended a master training course about B2B Marketing at General
Electric Management School in Crotonville (NY) when I was at Honeywell,
and I have a BA in Marketing Management at ISTUD in Italy.

Of course, I respect your opinion about my limited marketing skills, so
this is just for your info.

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Re: [board-discuss] LibreOffice Personal & TDF's statutes & purpose

[Italo Vignoli]

On 7/9/20 6:35 PM, Aravind Palla wrote:

> - that there will be no change of license;

Based on what you assume there can be a change of license, the marketing
plan says exactly the opposite, i.e. we do stay loyal to the copyleft
license, which is one of the pillars of the project.

> - that there will be no 'exclusive' features for the proposed enterprise 
> edition other than dedicated support like priority bug-fixing, help, etc.;

Same as above.

> - that the LibreOffice Community Edition will function as effectively as the 
> proposed LibreOffice Enterprise Edition without any restrictions;

Same as above.

> - that the intention of the board is not to commercialize the office suite 
> which creates commotion among the great community that has been supporting 
> LibreOffice since years;

Same as above.

> - that the board respects the principles of freedom (libre) software.

Same as above.

Sorry, but speculating on topics which are not even mentioned by the
marketing plan does not help at all. Using the word personal, as in
personal computer, does not imply anything of the above.

Yes, the word "personal" can be misunderstood by community members, as
only one person - a Fedora contributor - got it right, but it was chosen
also to avoid the potential issues of the word "community", which is
used by many open core projects for the free and feature limited version
(a quick search provides the following: Alfresco, Bacula, Bonita Studio,
FengOffice, GitLab, Knowage, Liferay, MySQL, NXLog, Odoo, OnlyOffice,
OpenClinica, OpenKM, OpenProject, OpenVPN, Shopware, SonarQube, SugarCRM
and Visual Paradigm).

Best regards.

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Re: [board-discuss] UPDATED Draft Marketing Plan 2020-2025

[Italo Vignoli]

All community members should look regularly at the dashboard, is a very
useful tool which provides a good overview of activities.

On 7/9/20 5:21 PM, Paolo Vecchi wrote:
> Thanks Italo.
> 
> I still need to learn a lot of stuff ;-)
> 
> Paolo
> 
> On 09/07/2020 17:18, Italo Vignoli wrote:
>> Just a quick note.
>>
>> On 7/9/20 5:11 PM, Paolo Vecchi wrote:
>>
>>>> Slide 15 and 16
>>>> These two are a slap into the face of many of the community members. It is 
>>>> made clear that only contributions to the source code are counted - but 
>>>> outlined as "Community the last two years - community by numbers". Perhaps 
>>>> the authors should rehearse the regulations of membership of the TDF and 
>>>> what is considered as contribution there - and correct their metrics then 
>>>> accordingly in a hurry. For instance, I never contributed one line of code 
>>>> into the repository - so I'm not contributing? In that metrics surely not. 
>>>> With Italo or Mike S., I'm not that sure  .
>>> The title of the slides should probably state that they talk about code
>>> contributions.
>> The two slides are extracted from the dashboard, and they are about all
>> contributions to the project which are parsed by the different tools, so
>> they are rather inclusive although they do not include all localizations
>> and all email threads. If you look at the dashboard, the page is called
>> "community". Code contributions are a subset.
>>
> 

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Re: [board-discuss] UPDATED Draft Marketing Plan 2020-2025

[Italo Vignoli]

Just a quick note.

On 7/9/20 5:11 PM, Paolo Vecchi wrote:

>> Slide 15 and 16
>> These two are a slap into the face of many of the community members. It is 
>> made clear that only contributions to the source code are counted - but 
>> outlined as "Community the last two years - community by numbers". Perhaps 
>> the authors should rehearse the regulations of membership of the TDF and 
>> what is considered as contribution there - and correct their metrics then 
>> accordingly in a hurry. For instance, I never contributed one line of code 
>> into the repository - so I'm not contributing? In that metrics surely not. 
>> With Italo or Mike S., I'm not that sure  .
> The title of the slides should probably state that they talk about code
> contributions.

The two slides are extracted from the dashboard, and they are about all
contributions to the project which are parsed by the different tools, so
they are rather inclusive although they do not include all localizations
and all email threads. If you look at the dashboard, the page is called
"community". Code contributions are a subset.

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Re: [board-discuss] UPDATED Draft Marketing Plan 2020-2025

[Italo Vignoli]

On 6/18/20 4:17 PM, Mike Saunders wrote:
> On 18/06/2020 15:45, Sam Tuke wrote:>
>> Slide 36: .biz domains lack credibility in my view, even compared to
>> some newer unknown domains. Personally I associate them with
>> unscrupulous salesmen, probably because of how "biz" is often used as an
>> abbreviation in american English. Consider alternatives like .pro,
>> .enterprises, .services.

> I agree with Sam here -- ".biz" still has a strong connotation of scam
> websites and cheap rip-offs to me. Maybe things have changed in recent
> years, but "libreoffice.biz" still makes me feel awkward.

> .enterprise, .business or .inbusiness would be better IMO.

I consider this a detail of the wider concept to have a website
associated to LibreOffice Enterprise. I have not done any research into
each domain viability, and I have used BIZ as this was the easiest one
to find on registrar's websites, so every improvement is welcome.

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[board-discuss] UPDATED Draft Marketing Plan 2020-2025

[Italo Vignoli]

After 10 years, LibreOffice is a different software in a different
market environment. We are quickly approaching the milestone release of
LibreOffice 7.0, which, for the first time in over 10 years, will offer
a new updated open standard format for office document: ODF 1.3.

LibreOffice is now available on the desktop, online and on mobile, in
different flavours, and with different names according to the ecosystem
company releasing the product.

It is therefore the time to update our marketing strategy, based on the
current situation and the market outlook for the next 5 years.

The approach has been already discussed in private by a small group of
people and has reached a first level of consensus. It will be discussed
in public during next BoD call, on Friday, June 19, at 1PM CEST.

The draft presentation is available online on TDF Nextcloud:
https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/jzryGw7XDkJadmo

Please focus on the overall strategy and not on specific details, as
details can be tweaked to reach a wider consensus.

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[board-discuss] Draft Marketing Plan 2020-2025

[Italo Vignoli]

After 10 years, LibreOffice is a different software in a different
market environment. We are quickly approaching the milestone release of
LibreOffice 7.0, which, for the first time in over 10 years, will offer
a new updated open standard format for office document: ODF 1.3.

LibreOffice is now available on the desktop, online and on mobile, in
different flavours, and with different names according to the ecosystem
company releasing the product.

It is therefore the time to update our marketing strategy, based on the
current situation and the market outlook for the next 5 years.

The approach has been already discussed in private by a small group of
people and has reached a first level of consensus. It will be discussed
in public during next BoD call, on Friday, June 19, at 1PM CEST.

The draft presentation is available online at the following address:
https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/y7SXTdamdB28GGG

Please focus on the overall strategy and not on specific details, as
details can be tweaked to reach a wider consensus.

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Re: [board-discuss] Resigning from MC - Rücktritt vom MC

[Italo Vignoli]

Website updated. Adding hostmaster for mailing lists and other services.

On 05/10/2019 11:52, GPS di Gabriele Ponzo wrote:
> Could please someone remove K-J from the Web Page [1] and move Ilmari
> among full members?
> Then K-J should be removed from MC's ML, Gerrit and Git groups, if it
> isn't been already done.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> ---
> Gabriele Ponzo
> GPS - Terni
> 
> [1] https://www.documentfoundation.org/governance/mc/
> 
> 
> Il giorno mer 25 set 2019 alle ore 10:10 Ilmari Lauhakangas
>  <mailto:ilmari.lauhakan...@libreoffice.org>> ha scritto:
> 
> Florian Effenberger kirjoitti 25.9.2019 klo 10.57:
> > Hello,
> >
> > as per § 12 II of our statutes [1], the deputy that follows next in
> > order of preference will become a full member of the membership
> committee.
> >
> > Based on the last elections [2], Ilmari Lauhakangas is the next
> elected
> > deputy.
> >
> > I therefore ask you, Ilmari Lauhakangas, do you want to accept
> your new
> > role and want to serve in The Document Foundation's membership
> committee
> > as a full member?
> >
> > Florian
> >
> >
> > [1] https://www.documentfoundation.org/satzung.pdf (binding
> version) and
> > https://www.documentfoundation.org/statutes.pdf (non-binding
> translation)
> >
> > [2]
> https://elections.documentfoundation.org/results.php?election_id=10
> >
> 
> I accept the role of a full member of the membership committee.
> 
> Ilmari Lauhakangas


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Re: [tdf-discuss] outdated LibreOffice Portable (MS Windows)

[Italo Vignoli]

When in the past it was suggested by several people to get in touch with
them to explore a closer collaboration, this was always refused because
it would have "offended" John Haller (and they were linked only by the
Italian community).

So, I do not see why they should link to our infrastructure when they
have been ignored (if not considered as second class citizens because of
their geographical origins). In fact, they are doing a better job than
John Haller, who is clearly not able of keeping up with our release
schedule, and they do this without our help.

I think that people can judge by themselves who is doing a better job of
supporting LibreOffice with the regular availability of the last version
of the software, and download what is more useful for their needs.

On 25/03/2019 14:30, Andreas Mantke wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I had a further and closer look onto the portableapps website and had to
> amend: both download links go to the TDF infrastructure.
> 
> And the webpage contains a prominent link to the TDF donation page.
> 
> I don't see something similar on the winpenpack website.
> 
> Regards,
> Andreas
> 
> Am 25.03.19 um 12:11 schrieb Andreas Mantke:
>> Hello,
>>
>> instead of the winpenpack project the portableapps project has links to
>> the TDF infrastructure. They have a download link to:
>> http://download.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/portable/
>>
>> I think the downloads from that URL will be counted in the TDF stats. I
>> don't know, if TDF got also the stats from the other download URL of
>> portableapps. Maybe the TDF admin team could ask John T. Haller about
>> such stats, if they are not already in TDF's hands.
>>
>> And for the question about current versions: it needs always voluteers
>> that do the work and get some positive feedback and support in return.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Andreas
>>
>> Am 25.03.19 um 11:21 schrieb Italo Vignoli:
>>> On 25/03/2019 07:08, Edmund Laugasson wrote:
>>>
>>>> What can we do to improve this situation?
>>> There is an alternative developed in Italy:
>>>
>>> http://www.winpenpack.com/en/index.php
>>>
>>> They provide both LibreOffice 6.2.1:
>>>
>>> http://www.winpenpack.com/en/download.php?view.1384
>>>
>>> And LibreOffice 6.1.5:
>>>
>>> http://www.winpenpack.com/en/download.php?view.1354
>>>
>>> They usually release just a few days after TDF.
>>>
>>> They have many positive reviews.
>>>
>>
> 
> 


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Re: [tdf-discuss] outdated LibreOffice Portable (MS Windows)

[Italo Vignoli]

WinPenPack is open source, and - according to many users - is better
than Portable Apps. It is also maintained by volunteers, who seem to be
more active and more caring about LibreOffice than John Haller as they
have not missed a single release since we launched in 2011. I do not
think that it would be a problem to host it on LibreOffice servers to be
included in the stats. I would be happy to get in touch with them, and I
suppose they would be happy to be considered by TDF (something which has
not happened in the past).

On 25/03/2019 12:11, Andreas Mantke wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> instead of the winpenpack project the portableapps project has links to
> the TDF infrastructure. They have a download link to:
> http://download.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/portable/
> 
> I think the downloads from that URL will be counted in the TDF stats. I
> don't know, if TDF got also the stats from the other download URL of
> portableapps. Maybe the TDF admin team could ask John T. Haller about
> such stats, if they are not already in TDF's hands.
> 
> And for the question about current versions: it needs always voluteers
> that do the work and get some positive feedback and support in return.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Andreas
> 
> Am 25.03.19 um 11:21 schrieb Italo Vignoli:
>> On 25/03/2019 07:08, Edmund Laugasson wrote:
>>
>>> What can we do to improve this situation?
>> There is an alternative developed in Italy:
>>
>> http://www.winpenpack.com/en/index.php
>>
>> They provide both LibreOffice 6.2.1:
>>
>> http://www.winpenpack.com/en/download.php?view.1384
>>
>> And LibreOffice 6.1.5:
>>
>> http://www.winpenpack.com/en/download.php?view.1354
>>
>> They usually release just a few days after TDF.
>>
>> They have many positive reviews.
>>
> 
> 


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Re: [tdf-discuss] outdated LibreOffice Portable (MS Windows)

[Italo Vignoli]

On 25/03/2019 07:08, Edmund Laugasson wrote:

> What can we do to improve this situation?

There is an alternative developed in Italy:

http://www.winpenpack.com/en/index.php

They provide both LibreOffice 6.2.1:

http://www.winpenpack.com/en/download.php?view.1384

And LibreOffice 6.1.5:

http://www.winpenpack.com/en/download.php?view.1354

They usually release just a few days after TDF.

They have many positive reviews.

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Re: [board-discuss] Public agenda for TDF BoD web meeting on Friday, January 18th at 1400 Berlin time

[Italo Vignoli]

On 13/01/2019 23:00, Marina Latini wrote:
> Dear Community,
> the board will meet again
> 
>  on Friday, January 18th at 1400 Berlin time
> 
> We'll meet using our own Jitsi instance at
>  https://jitsi.documentfoundation.org/TDFBoard
> or at
>  https://meet.jit.si/TDFBoard **ONLY** as fallback.
> 
> 
> 
> Public Part
> 
>  FOSDEM updates
> 
> 
> 
> If you have something to discuss with the board, please, reply to this
> message and join us during the meeting.

I can join to answer questions about the FOSDEM schedule

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Re: [board-discuss] Public agenda for TDF board web meeting on Friday, November 23rd, at 1400, Berlin time

[Italo Vignoli]

I strongly support the request for a TDF specific logo/icon, while I
don't think we should reopen the mascot topic because of the comments we
have received during the last Reddit AMA, which clearly show that there
would be flames from a group not involved in the community but vocal
enough to disrupt our process.

On 19/11/2018 10:14, Heiko Tietze wrote:
> I'd like to ask again for a decision regarding the MIME icon. Question was if 
> we can find a more appearing icon for LibreOffice or create something more 
> special for TDF (the brand is too close to the product). And I received a 
> request to restart the mascot topic. Belongs to the same topic, somehow.

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Re: [board-discuss] limited ability to contribute for some time

[Italo Vignoli]

Hi Cor, best wishes for a fast recover, and for the new house and
office. See you soon stronger than before. Ciao, Italo

On 20/06/2018 12:44, Cor Nouws wrote:

> Some already know, but repeating for others to know: 10 day's ago I've
> broken the elbow of my right arm, the one that is leading, so I'm in a
> phase where I have to be careful and am limited in what I can and not.
> This in the situation where we just moved home (and office) to a new
> house, with lots to do.

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Re: [board-discuss] Re: [tdf-membership] New Membership Committee member

[Italo Vignoli]

Will update the website ASAP

On 22/08/2017 09:06, Stephan Bergmann wrote:
> On 08/13/2017 11:54 AM, Cor Nouws wrote:
>> The Membership Committee voted for Stephan Bergman to be the new member,
>> so that we are again with five full members.
>> Welcome Stephan!
> 
> I, Stephan Bergmann, elected members of the Membership Committee of The
> Document Foundation, hereby accept this position within the Stiftung
> bürgerlichen Rechts "The Document Foundation". My term will start August
> 13, 2017.
> 
> Signed: Stephan Bergmann
> 
> Ich, Stephan Bergmann, gewähltes Mitglied des Memerbership Committes der
> The Document Foundation, nehme mein Amt innerhalb der Stiftung
> bürgerlichen Rechts "The Document Foundation" an. Meine Amtszeit beginnt
> am 13. August 2017.
> 
> Signed: Stephan Bergmann
> 


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[board-discuss] Travel Request

[Italo Vignoli]

I will fly to Tirana in early June (9 to 12 of June) for a two day
workshop, to go through the migration and the training protocols with
the local team, and train them on LibreOffice and ODF. I will also try
to understand if there are people willing to start contributing on the
source code, to provide local support.

Maximum total cost is around 300 Euro (200 Euro flight + 100 Euro
lodging). I kindly ask other budget approvers to express their opinion
(as I abstain).

Best, Italo

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[board-discuss] COSCUP Taiwan

[Italo Vignoli]

COSCUP is the largest open source event in Taiwan, and is planned for
August 5/6 in Taipei. The schedule will be based on tracks, which will
be organized and managed by open source communities. Based on Franklin
Weng suggestion, we will file a proposal for an ODF community track to
educate the government about the advantages of switching to the ODF
standard document format to foster interoperability, with sessions in
English and Chinese.

The Taiwanese community has invited me to talk about open standards and
educate about ODF within the migration to LibreOffice, expanding what I
have already presented at LibreOffice Conferences and in speeches in
Italy to the Ministry of Defence.

Based on the travel schedule, Franklin Weng will also try to organize a
meeting with the local authorities just before or after the event, to
strengthen the relationship with TDF.

Unfortunately, travel cost to Taiwan are not negligible. At the moment
the combination between flight ticket and accommodation is around 1,400
Euro. Based on these figures, I ask for approval of the expense (being
myself a budget approver, I abstain).

Thanks, Italo

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Re: [tdf-discuss] New Tutorials website

[Italo Vignoli]

On 16/03/2017 23:28, Dave Barton wrote:

> While my contribution disappears into insignificance against that of
> Italo, I can claim to have personally introduced somewhere between
> two and three thousand individuals and several SMEs to become users
> of LibreOffice.

Hei Dave, thanks for the unexpected mention. I don't think I have done
more than any other LibreOffice advocate, apart from targeting the
public with the largest audience (journalists).

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Re: [board-discuss] Harassment and lack of code of conduct

[Italo Vignoli]

Hi Bubli, thanks for raising the issue.

On 12/01/2017 12:24, Katarina Behrens wrote:

> At the very least, in the absence of "real" code of conduct, a clear and 
> concise public statement (in what particular form, I don't quite care) should 
> be made by TDF that such behaviour ( = harassment, stalking, etc.) is not 
> going to be tolerated and the offenders are not going to get away with it.

I think we should have a real code of conduct. The community has grown
outside the traditional boundaries of FLOSS (where you might find only
nice people, although I am not sure at all), and as any sizeable
community extending the reach to social media should have a real code of
conduct (by the way, we usually have on for conferences, so it should
not be an issue to extend it to the community).

> Related to that, there is no plan of action (or not one that I'd know of) how 
> to deal with incidents and what steps to take (on mailing lists, IRC, social 
> networks etc.) when things go wrong. Sure, it's perfectly clear to me that 
> those plans don't work most of the time and every case has to be dealt with 
> individually (sometimes e.g. hangout featuring both affected parties and a 
> mediator is a good solution, sometimes it's the worst thing you can possibly 
> think of), ...

Finding a single policy is indeed almost impossible.

> But again, some public statement by TDF that incidents are going to be dealt 
> with, we're prepared to act and people are going to be helped when needed 
> should be made. It'd make people feel more safe. 

Let's work on a real code of conduct. There are many around which can
fit our needs, and we can use as a basis for ours.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Flatpak is a Red Hat product?

[Italo Vignoli]

The text of the announcement has been extensively reviewed by a large 
number of people, with different backgrounds (including, but but not 
limited to, Red Hat) and has been approved as such. Flatpak release has 
been backed by Red Hat, and the Flatpak packaging has been managed by Red 
Hat. Behind Flatpak there are many full time Red Hat employees. These are 
just facts about the project as of today.



Il 7 Agosto 2016 9:16:23 PM Hugo Alejandro  ha scritto:


Hello everyone. I think there has been an error in the reference made
in the article of Flatpak in the announcement of LibreOffice 5.2
(https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2016/08/03/libreoffice-5-2-fresh-released-for-windows-mac-os-and-gnulinux/)
As they mentioned that Flatpak is a product of Red Hat when it is not.

I have followed closely the development of Flatpak (formally xdg-app)
and began as a project of Alexander Larsson under the support of the
GNOME project.

Compared with Snap by Canonical, iscommercial project as much
difference (copyright, marketing, full-time employees, etc).

See: http://flatpak.org/faq.html

Hugo

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Re: [tdf-discuss] ODF compatibility [was "Why Microsoft...]

[Italo Vignoli]

Apologies for top posting, but I am writing from mobile. That article is 
totally inaccurate, as there wasn't any court case between Microsoft and 
the UK government. Microsoft announced a "best effort" support of ODF (as 
well as Google) based on the UK government decision for ODF, but the 
technical limitations of the office applications does not allow for 100% 
fidelity, as Word redlining is totally incompatible with the standard and 
Excel leap year bug does not allow to support date representation according 
to the standard calendar (so called Gregorian). Issues with OOXML are so 
many that perfect ODF compatibility will never be achieved by Microsoft Office.


Writing to members of UK parliament - who are not competent about document 
formats (the decision was inspired by a technical committee of 
international experts I was involved in, although I do not see myself as an 
expert) - or OASIS ODF technical committee (they look after ODF technical 
issues and not OOXML compatibility problems, which are a case of 
competitive marketing) will never trigger an answer.


I personally think that the discussion is relevant for LibreOffice 
advocates, because LibreOffice is ODF reference implementation and 
LibreOffice advocates should know how to position the software against 
other office suites. The case is not technical, as the document format is 
the most important lock in strategies for proprietary office suites.


Best, Italo


Il 8 Luglio 2016 07:26:55 Edmund Laugasson  ha 
scritto:



Dear all,

There was also court case between Microsoft and UK government -
http://www.itproportal.com/2015/03/30/microsoft-will-adopt-open-document-standards-following-government-battle/

But it seems that Microsoft does not respect the results of that court case
- still the incompatibilities exist - how to solve this? Does anybody in
this list know more about that court case and possibly people who are
behind that? I would like to investigate that case a bit more. I tried to
contact with British parliament member but they did not respond even I used
all honour titles respectfully.

Thank you,
Edmund Laugasson

2016-07-07 17:22 GMT+03:00 Joel Madero :



> Is this the official statement of the OD-foundation or only yours?
>
> You know the GPL? This is a 100%-thing, too. You have to do it 100% or
> your are not allowed.
Well considering you're asking on a LibreOffice email list and not on
the OASIS email list - obviously I'm not speaking for OASIS
("OD-foundation"). Feel free to email them with your questions as this
seems like the wrong place for this discussion anyways.


Best,
Joel

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Re: [tdf-discuss] OOXML ECMA-376, transitionnal and strict

[Italo Vignoli]

On 28/04/2016 09:15, mjollni...@laposte.net wrote:

> The question is, how do we enforce the rules with the greatest 
> efficiency possible.

Unfortunately, interoperability is strictly related to the user
behaviour, and should become a topic for students in schools. Users
should learn how to create interoperable documents, not only related to
fonts but also to other document elements.

> In my opinion, an automatic reply of the administration ingoing email
> platform would be the best solution. It would reply automatically to
> anyone who sends an email with a transitionnal OOXML attached. This
> email would be written very carefully whith information about IGR v2,
> about the 2 versions of OOXML and about what are the best practices
> to communicate with a french administration (ODF).

This could educate users, over the very long term (as most users will
completely ignore the remark).

> Therefore is the following question : What is the easiest way to know
> wether a file is written in strict OOXML or not ?

I am investigating the issue myself, as I will talk to an audience of
public administration employees in Italy in two weeks, and I will have
to cover the topic.

> Or maybe just checking if a single file exists or not would tell us 
> if the file is strict or transitionnal ?

For sure, MS Office 2013 used to have huge problems in handling OOXML
Strict: http://www.italovignoli.org/2014/02/redmond-we-have-a-problem/.

Microsoft answer on the topic is that I did something wrong as a user,
because I created some content before saving the OOXML Strict, while MS
Office defaults to OOXML Transitional when you enter contents (so, you
cannot save as OOXML Strict a document with contents).

By the way, this was scrutinized by the UK Cabinet Office.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] OOXML ECMA-376, transitionnal and strict

[Italo Vignoli]

On 27/04/2016 22:55, Simon Phipps wrote:

> In fact it makes me wonder if these could be the default equivalents for
> the C-fonts in LibreOffice?

In fact, they are provided as equivalents, although the software is not
configured to handle them as equivalents.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] OOXML ECMA-376, transitionnal and strict

[Italo Vignoli]

Yes, the fonts come with Windows, but not with other operating systems.
On MacOS, they are legally available with MS Office installed. On Linux,
they are not available at all.

C-Fonts cannot be legally embedded, although they can be mechanically
embedded (and no one warns you about the legal risks). If you receive a
document which embeds a C-Font, the font may end up being installed on
your system (even if you are not allowed to use it because you do not
own a license). Microsoft can legally pursue the owner of the C-Font
license.

By using C-Fonts, you are therefore producing documents with limited
interoperability, even if you are legally allowed to use them (as you
own a Windows license).

C-Fonts are not interoperable also in technical terms, as they have a
peculiar metric size, which is difficult to emulate. This means that a
document where a C-Font is replaced with another font will be visually
different, to the point that many users will believe that contents are
not the same.

I hope this helps.

On 27/04/2016 20:43, Mike Hall wrote:
> On 27/04/2016 13:42, Italo Vignoli wrote:
>> Several people at TDF have been involved in the decision process and
>> have contributed specific evidence about ODF and OOXML
> I zapped your last message, but I wondered whether it was necessary to
> have an MSO licence to use Calibri etc. This windows PC, originally Win
> 7, now Win 10 has all the MS fonts but has never had MSO installed,
> which seems to imply it's Windows rather than Office that brings in the
> fonts?

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Re: [tdf-discuss] OOXML ECMA-376, transitionnal and strict

[Italo Vignoli]

On 26/04/2016 12:46, mjollni...@laposte.net wrote:

> Is it correct to say that the Transitionnal OOXML format is not
> compliant with any international standard or norm ? Neither ECMA, nor
> ISO, nor anything but MS$ itself.

OOXML Transitional is not the standard format, but a tweaked version of
OOXML integrating bynary blobs and other non standard components, which
was supposed to help the transition from the legacy file formats to
OOXML Strict (which is the only standard file format).

> If so, Does this means that NO version of MS$ office (from 2010 to
> the actual) writes BY DEFAULT in a standardized or normalised format.
>  (cf.
> https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc179191%28v=office.16%29.aspx
> for default formats)

Yes. Every Microsoft Office version since 2007 defaults to OOXML
Transitional, implementing a slightly different version of the OOXML
Transitional non standard file format.

Only MS Office 2013 and MS Office 2016 implement OOXML Strict, with a
process that makes it virtually impossible for any normal user to get a
real OOXML Strict file format (the user should save the document using
the OOXML Strict option - listed as last of the "save as" options -
before writing a single character).

Because of this behaviour which intentionally prevents the creation of
OOXML Strict files, the number of OOXML Strict files available is close
to zero.

In addition, Microsoft fonts used as default by MS Office since 2007 -
known as C-Fonts or Calibri, Cambria, Candara, Consolas, Constantia and
Corbel) - can only be used by MS Office licensed customers, as they are
included in MS Office EULA, to add another level of incompatibility.

> Is anyone confident enough in his knowledge of OOXML to acknowledge
> this ? Maybe this place is not the best one to ask the question ? If
> so, would please somebody advice me the best place to post the
> question ?

I am confident enough to answer most questions about OOXML issues.

Please do note that after the UK decision on July 22, 2014, not even
Microsoft has dared to define OOXML as standard in public, because it is
perfectly clear that the file format is not standard and will never be a
standard (after nine years and four different implementations of OOXML
Transitional, which was supposed to last a maximum of two MS Office
versions).

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Re: [tdf-discuss] OOXML ECMA-376, transitionnal and strict

[Italo Vignoli]

On 27/04/2016 10:12, pasqual milvaques wrote:

> In the sake of documenting this, the UK Cabinet Office decision can be
> found here:
> https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/open-standards-for-government/sharing-or-collaborating-with-government-documents

Several people at TDF have been involved in the decision process and
have contributed specific evidence about ODF and OOXML - not being a
standard - to UK Cabinet Office.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] OOXML ECMA-376, transitionnal and strict

[Italo Vignoli]

On 26/04/2016 15:09, pasqual milvaques wrote:

> The 'transitional' variant of ooxml is specified in Part 4 of ISO/IEC
> 29500 so it's standard, it's supposed that the features of the
> transitional variant ease the transition from older formats, I'm not
> sure if there is a plan for making the strict variant the default in MS
> Office, in Office 2016 it's not yet

OOXML Transitional is definitely not recognized as a standard, and is
specified in Part 4 of ISO/IEC 29500 exactly because is not a standard
(to make it clear how it differs from the standard). OOXML Transitional
was accepted to ease the transition to the standard, and as such should
have lasted only a few years, while it has been used by Microsoft as the
default OOXML format since forever. In addition, OOXML Transitional is
different for each version of MS Office, and the differences are not
documented (only the first OOXML Transitional was documented).

In addition, OOXML Strict - which is the ONLY accepted standard - is
almost impossible to obtain by normal users, as the process is far from
the usual one, as in order to have an OOXML Strict you must save the
document before performing ANY action (as otherwise the format switches
to OOXML Transitional, which is not a standard).

UK Cabinet Office has clearly documented the reasons why OOXML is not a
standard file format.

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Re: [board-discuss] Re: OSCAL Tirana

[Italo Vignoli]

On 25/03/2016 17:09, Marc Paré wrote:

> Could you give us details of the conference and link? We will put it up
> on our events calendar.

http://oscal.openlabs.cc/

OSCAL (Open Source Conference Albania) is the first annual conference in
Albania organized to promote software freedom, open source software,
free culture and open knowledge. The Conference will take place at 14th
and 15th May 2016 in Tirana.

I will attend the entire conference, and there will be a LibreOffice
booth staffed by myself with the help of local volunteers.

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[board-discuss] OSCAL Tirana

[Italo Vignoli]

I have proposed a speech at OSCAL Tirana (May 14/15), which has been
accepted. Travel expenses will be around 500 euro (flight plus hotel). I
ask for approval of the expense from the marketing/community budget.

I will talk about migrations to LibreOffice, focusing on the Italian
Defence project.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Is the "Office Open XML" option strict?

[Italo Vignoli]

Yes, LibreOffice targets Strict in addition to Transitional (because Strict 
does not exist, as the process to save Strict with MS Office  is not limited to 
choosing Strict but also to the user behaviour, in a way that makes Strict 
almost impossible to obtain).

MS Office will create a Strict file only if the user saves the Document as 
Strict before doing ANY other thing (for instance, adding a single letter or a 
simple space), as otherwise MS Office creates a Transitional file.

In addition, MS Office opens Strict files as Transitional (the default format), 
so that the user must save it as Strict each time. If someone hits Ctrl-S, the 
file becomes Transitional and will NEVER revert to Strict.

You can try yourself. This is why I am repeating that a Strict file does not 
exist (by the way, Office for Mac does not support Strict, so if you have a 
single Mac user, Strict is gone). I have made several tests, and Strict is 
close to impossible to obtain when exchanging files.

I hope this explains the situation.

Italo Vignoli
Sent from Mobile

> Il giorno 24 dic 2015, alle ore 22:59, Advrk Aplmrkt <avkapl...@gmail.com> ha 
> scritto:
> 
> Agreed. AFAIK Microsoft Office does not save Strict OOXML by default.
> However, starting with Microsoft Office 2013, Strict OOXML can be
> selected when saving files. Also, starting with Microsoft Office 2010,
> Strict OOXML files can always be read.
> 
> I whole heartedly agree that ODF should be pushed more than OOXML
> (strict or not).
> 
> That said, that still leaves my original very specific question unanswered:
> 
> When saving to the "Office Open XML" format in LibreOffice's save
> dialog, does that target the published *strict* OOXML format? Thanks!
> 
>> On 23/12/2015, Italo Vignoli <it...@libreoffice.org> wrote:
>> The issue is that MS Office does not support Strict OOXML as default, and
>> creating Strict OOXML with MS Office is close to impossible.
>> 
>> Il 23 dicembre 2015 9:31:58 PM avamk <avkapl...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>> Thanks krackedpress for your thoughts. I'm glad to hear that you have
>>> been able to complete migrate away from Microsoft Office, and that it
>>> has worked out well for you.
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately, regardless of which Microsoft Office format I save in -
>>> the old Office 2003 (.doc), Office 2007+ (.docx), or Office Open XML
>>> (OOXML .docx) - there are always countless problems when others open
>>> my documents. This gets even worse for spreadsheets or presentations.
>>> LibreOffice produced .pptx files are literally reported as corrupted
>>> by Microsoft Office 2010 and do not even open (I've reported this
>>> bug).
>>> 
>>> And no, I am not in a position to make everyone around me switch to
>>> LibreOffice. I have already annoyed many colleagues by sending them
>>> .docx/.xlsx/.pptx files saved by LibreOffice, because no one can open
>>> them without serious trouble. This is especially true when my
>>> colleagues include my boss.
>>> 
>>> Recent versions of Microsoft Office (2013 and 2016) at least claims to
>>> support the strict OOXML format, and that's why I asked my original
>>> question: Does LibreOffice target strict OOXML when I choose the
>>> "Office Open XML" format when saving a file??? Is this documented
>>> somewhere? Is someone managing this?
>>> 
>>> Assuming LibreOffice will continue to improve export to STRICT OOXML,
>>> then there is a chance that Office 2013/2016 might be able to open
>>> those files from LibreOffice one day.
>>> 
>>> On 11/12/2015, krackedpress [via Document Foundation Mail Archive]
>>> <ml-node+s969070n4169036...@n3.nabble.com> wrote:
>>>> On 12/10/2015 12:23 PM, avamk wrote:
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I was just reading yesterday that starting with Microsoft Office 2010,
>>>>> Microsoft Office programs like Word and PowerPoint are able to read
>>>>> files
>>>>> saved in the Office Open XML (OOXML) "strict" format. In fact as far as
>>>>> I
>>>>> can tell Office 2013 or later natively supports reading and writing to
>>>>> the
>>>>> strict format.
>>>>> 
>>>>> When saving in LibreOffice, I'm presented with the option to save my
>>>>> file
>>>>> in
>>>>> the "Office Open XML" format. My questions are:
>>>>> 
>>>>> (1) Does LibreOffice also save it in the "strict" OOXML format? Is
>>>>> strict

Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice PPA

[Italo Vignoli]

PPAs are provided by the Ubuntu community. TDF provides the basic DEB package, 
which is the source for any distribution specific variant (such as the PPA). 
You cannot expect TDF to provide such a package (unless someone volunteers, but 
it will never be official from TDF).

Italo Vignoli
Sent from Mobile

> Il giorno 24 dic 2015, alle ore 07:58, Edmund Laugasson 
> <edmund.laugas...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> Would like to ask about up-to-date LibreOffice PPA - would be there any?
> Even Y-PPA could not find any.
> 
> The https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/ubuntu/ppa seems to be 
> outdated.
> 
> Is there any TDF official LibreOffice PPA planned?
> 
> Best Regards,
> Edmund
> 
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Is the "Office Open XML" option strict?

[Italo Vignoli]

The issue is that MS Office does not support Strict OOXML as default, and 
creating Strict OOXML with MS Office is close to impossible.



Il 23 dicembre 2015 9:31:58 PM avamk  ha scritto:


Thanks krackedpress for your thoughts. I'm glad to hear that you have
been able to complete migrate away from Microsoft Office, and that it
has worked out well for you.

Unfortunately, regardless of which Microsoft Office format I save in -
the old Office 2003 (.doc), Office 2007+ (.docx), or Office Open XML
(OOXML .docx) - there are always countless problems when others open
my documents. This gets even worse for spreadsheets or presentations.
LibreOffice produced .pptx files are literally reported as corrupted
by Microsoft Office 2010 and do not even open (I've reported this
bug).

And no, I am not in a position to make everyone around me switch to
LibreOffice. I have already annoyed many colleagues by sending them
.docx/.xlsx/.pptx files saved by LibreOffice, because no one can open
them without serious trouble. This is especially true when my
colleagues include my boss.

Recent versions of Microsoft Office (2013 and 2016) at least claims to
support the strict OOXML format, and that's why I asked my original
question: Does LibreOffice target strict OOXML when I choose the
"Office Open XML" format when saving a file??? Is this documented
somewhere? Is someone managing this?

Assuming LibreOffice will continue to improve export to STRICT OOXML,
then there is a chance that Office 2013/2016 might be able to open
those files from LibreOffice one day.

On 11/12/2015, krackedpress [via Document Foundation Mail Archive]
 wrote:

On 12/10/2015 12:23 PM, avamk wrote:

Hello,

I was just reading yesterday that starting with Microsoft Office 2010,
Microsoft Office programs like Word and PowerPoint are able to read files
saved in the Office Open XML (OOXML) "strict" format. In fact as far as I
can tell Office 2013 or later natively supports reading and writing to
the
strict format.

When saving in LibreOffice, I'm presented with the option to save my file
in
the "Office Open XML" format. My questions are:

(1) Does LibreOffice also save it in the "strict" OOXML format? Is strict
OOXML fully implemented in LibreOffice?

(2) Is it better to save using the "Office Open XML" format, or the
formats
named like "Microsoft Word/Excel/Powerpoint 2007-2013 XML"?

Yes, for software freedom purposes I prefer saving in the Open Document
Format, but I would get endless complaints from colleagues saying I'm
sending them weird and "corrupted" files... :( In fact even if I save in
the
OOXML format I still get complaints, but at least I get less...


The problem with OOXML is the fact that each updated version of MS
Office seems to use a different version of OOXML.

My solution for Word users is to use .doc instead of .docx.  It works
well for me and the people I have to work with that do not use LibreOffice.

If you must use OOXML, do not use the generic Office Open XML.  That may
be the generic ISO standard that MS wanted but never used properly [IMO]
after ODF became the defacto International Standard. I would use the one
that states it is for MS Office 2007 / 2010 / 2013.

To be honest, I no longer use MS Office and stopped getting MSO with
2003 version. I have used later version, but always removed them after
a few weeks.





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[board-discuss] Budget Approval for LibreItalia Conference

[Italo Vignoli]

Associazione LibreItalia asked a grant to cover travel expenses for
LibreItalia Conference on November 28, but the BoD prefers to handle the
reimbursement within the marketing budget.

Charles, can you please approve the expense, which is specified in the
attachment?

Thanks, Italo

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libreitalia-grantrequest.odt
Description: application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text

[board-discuss] Marketing Budget Approval for FUEL GILT 2015

[Italo Vignoli]

FUEL GILT is one of the largest conferences focused on localization
issues, and is organized by a number of TDF community members in India
(those who have attended the conference in Aarhus). They have invited
Sophie and myself to attend the conference, and the idea is the I attend
2015 and Sophie attends 2016, to foster the connection with the Indian
NLP and promote LibreOffice and ODF in the Indian market.

The conference happens in Chennai (Madras) on November 20-22, and I will
present a paper on LibreOffice localization (edited with Sophie's
precious help) and one on the ODF document standard (and associated
issues, such as free fonts for interoperability).

Travel expenses will be lower than 1,000 Euro (flight is around 600
Euro, hotel is less than 75 Euro per night, and other expenses are low
in comparison with Europe).

For more information on FUEL: http://fuelproject.org/gilt2015/index.

I ask Charles to approve the expense from the marketing budget.

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[board-discuss] Pre Approval of Travel Reimbursement

[Italo Vignoli]

I would like to ask a pre-approval of travel reimbursements from the
marketing budget for the following tasks:

1. OSCON Europe, happening in Amsterdam from October 26 to October 28,
where I will travel to support the local community at the booth and to
meet European journalists (forecasted expense: transportation + hotel =
euro 800).

2. Meetings with Italian Government bodies in Rome, where we - myself
and Sonia Montegiove - will be introduced by the Ministry of Defense as
a part of the agreement signed by Associazione LibreItalia (forecasted
expense for two people: transportation + hotel when necessary = euro 1,200).

Both forecasts include some flexibility. The final amount should be
lower than the total forecasted.

Sonia Montegiove has already traveled to Verona for the first meeting,
while the other meetings will happen from mid October till the end of
November.

Being a budget approver for marketing, I abstain.

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Re: [board-discuss] Publication of ledgers

[Italo Vignoli]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 05/09/2015 00:50, Thorsten Behrens wrote:
> I'll probably not announce every monthly update here (unless people
> explicitely find this useful); instead interested parties are
> encouraged to add the wiki page to their watch list for timely update
> emails.

I can add a link to the ledgers to the monthly newsletter. I will start
working on the August one tomorrow.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] a question about renaming LO version from 4.5 to 5.0

[Italo Vignoli]

On 04/04/15 15:59, Lera Goncharuk wrote:

 Could anybody explain, what is the reason for renaming LO version from 4.5 to 
 5.0, to me please?

The change has been discussed in the private marketing list, and is
purely marketing based. It is going to be explained in detail with a
messaging backgrounder I am currently drafting, and will be ready mid
next week.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Incomplete Coverity scan chart

[Italo Vignoli]

Data from the published report refet to LibreOffice 4.3, but the scan is
always referring to the latest version. You should access the data from
this link: https://scan.coverity.com/projects/211?tab=overview.

On 18/01/15 17:16, Mateusz Zasuwik wrote:

 https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.4#Coverity

 The chart doesn't include date for LO 4.3. Why and who can repair it? I
 also download Coverity report from their website and it turned out to be
 report for old (4.3) version. Not for the new one just incoming.

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[board-discuss] Speaking at Conferences in Italy

[Italo Vignoli]

I have been invited to present LibreOffice in Foligno on Saturday,
December 13. I will also lecture about document standards on Friday,
December 12, to the members of Perugia Linux User Group. Both events are
organized within the migration to LibreOffice of Regione Umbria. Travel
expenses are limited to train tickets (euro 95,40), as I will stay at my
sister's in Assisi.

I have also been invited to present LibreOffice in Cagliari on Saturday,
December 20, at a Free Software Conference organized by the local
university to remember Giulio Concas, a professor and open source
advocate who died in September at age 50. Giulio was a friend of every
Italian open source advocate, although we were used to meet only at
conferences. I will have to leave on Friday, December 19, and spend the
night in Cagliari, as flights are not available on Saturday morning. I
anticipate that the cost will not be higher than 250 euro.

I ask Charles to approve the expense from the marketing budget.

As usual, being a marketing budget approver myself, this happens on the
public mailing list for the sake of transparency.

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Re: [board-discuss] Travel Expense Approval

[Italo Vignoli]

On 10/11/14 07:18, Michael Meeks wrote:

   Seems obviously sensible to me =) isn't there a marketing budget for
 easy approval of such things ? seems too obvious to need a board vote /
 distraction to me.

I was not asking for a vote, but for a simple approval on a public
mailing list. Of course, it belongs to the marketing budget, but - being
myself an approver - I did not want to handle it privately between
myself and Charles.

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[board-discuss] Travel Expense Approval

[Italo Vignoli]

I will represent the project at the upcoming SFScon in Bolzano, on
November 14. This year, we will have a 2 hours long workshop in the
afternoon, focused on migrations and certification, in addition to a
booth (staffed by local TDF members).

I will have to travel by car to bring booth materials with me, and
therefore I am asking to cover travel expenses (fuel plus tolls: Euro 90
+ Euro 41.20) and lodging for two nights (Euro 40 + Euro 55).

Thanks and best regards, Italo

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Better PDF import?

[Italo Vignoli]

On 21/06/14 11:07, Mateusz Zasuwik wrote:

 I noticed you guys heavily work over many dead formats. But did anyone
 think about better PDF Import? I lost my data lately and I had open some
 old PDF files which turn out to be normal PDF (not hybrid PDF/ODT). I
 opened it via LO but document was rendered within Draw, not Writer or
 Impress as it should be done. You also should take account of fact that MS
 Office opens every PDF file and easily convert it on its native format what
 makes this software more useful for normal users. Hybrid PDF is cool
 feature, but probably it won't become major file format for long time. The
 market is dominated by normal PDF and in this area LireOffice just suck. So
 maybe someone who assigns aims for future (TDF Board?) should regroup
 thoughts once again and concentrates for features needed on a daily basis?

The right behaviour is to open PDFs in Draw.

Have you ever used MS Office 2013 to open a PDF? It sucks at least as
much as any other software.

PDF is based on PostScript, which is a page description language, and as
such is extremely difficult to convert into an editable document.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Start 2014 with Freedom, Adopt LibreOffice in your life!

[Italo Vignoli]

 Do you call the absolute dependence on developers' powertrips and their
 uncontestable decisions 'freedom'? I have bad news for you then.

 In my opinion they have not done anything new, better, more elegant,
 than rebuilding things that already exist, and even doing so was not
 always a success.
 (seeing the more than 59000 bugs here:
 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=59030list_id=321771 )

I do not see how you both contribute to the discussion here. If you are
so unhappy with TDF and LibreOffice, the easiest solution is to find a
house somewhere else.

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Re: [board-discuss] daylight savings and board call time

[Italo Vignoli]

On 10/20/2013 07:22 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote:

 My preference is moving to 1600 UTC, keeping effective time the same.

I agree.

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[board-discuss] Travel Approval

[Italo Vignoli]

I have been able to get a last minute speaking opportunity at the Debian 
Ubuntu Community Conference in Italy (DUCC-IT), to speak about 
LibreOffice and opportunities for collaboration for Italian volunteers.


I will travel using my train points (so, for free) up to Fermo, but I 
will spend around 100 euros for a room in a BB (two nights) and around 
20 euros to reach my house in Assisi, from where I will travel to Rome 
for another meeting at Agenzia per l'Italia Digitale (the second part 
from Assisi will be covered by the already approved budget).


I will leave tomorrow afternoon and get back on Tuesday.

I ask the BoD to approve an amount of 140 euro (more than I will spend, 
just in case) to charge on the marketing budget.


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Re: [board-discuss] Reminder: BoD call tomorrow

[Italo Vignoli]

Il 28/05/2013 19:42, Florian Effenberger ha scritto:


Right now, there are now agenda items listed. If anyone has a topic to
discuss, please add it in time - otherwise I propose we adjourn the call
and meet two weeks later.


Will add certification for migrations, training and support. I will also 
circulate a message on this subject tonight.


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Re: [board-discuss] dialling in via Google Hangouts

[Italo Vignoli]

Il 15/05/2013 15:56, Florian Effenberger ha scritto:


Hear you in an hour,


Might be a couple of minute late, but I will join for sure.

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Re: [board-discuss] Board Strategy Meeting

[Italo Vignoli]

On 05/10/2013 06:41 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote:

 Can all board members give me feedback on when is best (or when it
 doesn't work out at all), so I can send out a Doodle poll soon?

OK the following weekends
June 8/9 and 22/23
July 13/14 and 20/21
August 24/25 and 31
September 1 and 7/8 and 14/15

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Re: [board-discuss] board meeting on Wednesday

[Italo Vignoli]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 04/27/2013 03:01 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote:

 There would be a regular board meeting scheduled on Wednesday, May
 1st. This is a public holiday here in Germany, and probably also in
 other countries.

In Italy, too.

 As probably neither Thorsten, nor Andreas, nor I are home that day,
 and there's nothing urgent on the agenda, I propose to skip that
 meeting.

I will be at home, but I agree about skipping the meeting.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Tool Bar Icons...

[Italo Vignoli]

On 4/25/13 10:13 AM, Angela wrote:
 I've just recently upgraded LibreOffice on the EeePC 900 to LibreOffice 3.4.4
 OOO340m1 (Build:402).

The mailing list where you can find other users willing to help you is
the us...@global.libreoffice.org mailing list. This mailing list if for
discussion of general topics, but you would not find many users here.

In addition, LibreOffice 3.4.4 is two years old, as we are at
LibreOffice 4.0.2. You should upgrade to the last, or close to the last
as 3.6.6, version in order to check if there are issues. The version you
have installed is way too old.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

[Italo Vignoli]

On 4/22/13 4:28 PM, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
 Italo are you planning on taking advantage of other means besides social
 networks such as google plus facebook twitter etc are you planning an
 advertisement campaing through google adwords?

We can probably enhance our Google AdWords by including terms related to
MS Office end-of-life support, although we should make some research to
get the right wording. Especially when you target this kind of long
descriptions, Google AdWords become tricky, as you might completely miss
your target by choosing the wrong association.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

[Italo Vignoli]

On 4/22/13 6:28 PM, Immanuel Giulea wrote:

 The original intent of my message (sorry if I used the wrong mailing list)
 was to make a blog post to say that we as a community are aware of the
 end-of-life for MSO 2003 that is less than a year away, and here are some
 reasons why you should make the switch.

Don't worry, the mailing list is OK, although this might also be
interesting for marketing people. Let's elaborate the idea, because a
simple blog post is probably not enough. We should target magazines and
websites covering e-government issues, because IT people might be
reading these media. Unfortunately, politicians - who usually take the
decisions - are not reading media but are prone to MS lobby efforts.

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Re: [board-discuss] new BoD call time due to daylight saving time

[Italo Vignoli]

On 03/29/2013 01:53 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote:


in many countries, this Sunday daylight saving time will start again. In
order to keep the effective time of the board calls constant, I'd hereby
like to have a quick vote. My request is to change the call time from
1600 UTC to 1500 UTC.


+1

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Bulletted list and space between the list items

[Italo Vignoli]

Il 06/03/2013 03:51, Marc Paré ha scritto:


I would like the list with less space between the lines ...


Once you have the list, you can configure the distance between the items 
using the Format  Paragraph window, where you can set the space before 
and after, and the line height.


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Re: [board-discuss] Request for auxiliary travel budget Dresden Impress Sprint

[Italo Vignoli]

Thorsten Behrens wrote on 2013-03-01 14:44:

Our host has a budget for accomodation and travel, and with current
registrations it appears we will not exceed that. Still, to not have
participants being deterred for lack of money, I'd like the board to
approve an extra € 1,000.00 for travel bursaries, only to be used when
host budget has run dry.


+1

(unfortunately, there won't be pasta hacking this time)

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Re: [tdf-discuss] How did AOO figure it was worth $21 Million dollars a day or $7 billion per year?

[Italo Vignoli]

On 2/19/13 7:59 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:

 There are two base figures: (1) the average number of AOO full-install
 downloads per day and (2) an estimated average price for a permanent
 Microsoft Office desktop license.  Rob used $150 US which is the price for
 Office 2013 Home and Student.  That includes service packs, etc., but not
 upgrades to later versions of Microsoft Office.

No, I have just bought a license of Office 2013 Home and Student for 79
Euro (I can send you a scan of the invoice). The regular price is lower
by 30% (at least).

In addition, people who were already using OOo (most of AOO user base)
did not switch at all from MS Office, and therefore did not save any money.

All migrations from MS Office during the last 12 months are to
LibreOffice, and this is something that AOO people know very well.
Instead of spreading false information (in a press release, which is
even worse), AOO should provide numbers about the migrations from MS
Office to AOO, if available.

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Re: [board-discuss] LibreOffice presence for DFD 2013

[Italo Vignoli]

On 2/19/13 3:32 PM, Daniel A. Rodriguez wrote:
 Please consider using some funds to accentuate the overall positioning of
 LibreOffice taking advantage from this year's DFD. A TV spot maybe.

A TV spot is way beyond any available budget. We are planning an
announcement for the DFD, but is still to be confirmed.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] How did AOO figure it was worth $21 Million dollars a day or $7 billion per year?

[Italo Vignoli]

On 2/19/13 6:20 PM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:

 I suspect they multiply the standard package price of MS Office and
 multiply that by their numbers of stated downloads, then divide it by
 365. At least that's how I would do it.

Average number of downloads per day, multiplied by 150 dollars (which is
the inflated average price of MS Office Home, as the price is less than
80 dollars now).

By the way, they claim 236 countries and territories while their
language versions are around 10% than that. Huge FUD by the master of
IBM FUD, Mister Robert Weir.

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [tdf-discuss] How did AOO figure it was worth $21 Million dollars a day or $7 billion per year?

[Italo Vignoli]

On 2/19/13 7:59 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
 SourceForge reports downloads by country.  It appears that the number of
 languages supported does not limit the locations where the downloads happen
 (although destination country is necessarily an estimate, just as it is on
 the ClustrMap of visitors to my web sites).  

Do you really believe that a Mongolian who was used to use OOo in
Mongolian is happy to use AOO in English? This is just an example, but
the concept is exactly the same for another 80 languages, which might be
minor for someone speaking only English but are not minor for the people
speaking that language.

The update mechanism suggests the Mongolian to download the new version,
but I really wonder that the new version in English will be used at all.
Of course, the concept is difficult to explain to someone speaking only
English, and willing to spread false information.

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Re: [board-discuss] Travel Expenses

[Italo Vignoli]

On 2/13/13 5:37 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote:

 I assume you are talking about the decision # 20121220-01 from
 https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/BoD_Decisions, right? (budget
 of 2,000 € for Italo Vignoli's trip to POSSCON and LibrePlanet)

Yes.

 So, for the Oman trip there has been no budget approved at all so far,
 it is only for POSSCON and LibrePlanet, as far as I can so. For the ease
 of voting, I propose to:

OMAN should be mostly covered, although I have discovered by digging
into the country website that I might be asked to pay for the enry VISA
(around 40 Euro, but this is not clear), plus I will have to cover taxi
transfers and meals, and I do not know - because I did not get answers
to my questions - to which extent the organization covers them (might be
all covered, but I will discover it once there).

The US trip could prove more expensive than planned because of taxes on
lodging, which are difficult to understand as they are not shown on the
hotel rates, and other possible extras. I have booked hotels different
from the event suggested ones, as I have found cheaper options (but
unfortunately not so cheap).

I hope to spend the lowest figure, of course, but I prefer to ask in
advance than to create a problem afterwards.

 1. Vote on having a budget of 2.500 € in total for your trips to
 POSSCON, LibrePlanet and FOSSC Oman,

 2. thereby revoking decision # 20121220-01

 Did I get this right, does this make sense, or did I miss some requests?
 Please confirm, then we can start voting. ;)

I confirm, and I will abstain from the vote for obvious reasons.

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Re: [board-discuss] budget for business cards

[Italo Vignoli]

On 2/12/13 11:32 AM, Florian Effenberger wrote:

 Italo Vignoli has kindly produced business cards for the whole board, to
 hand out during events and other official occasions. The total costs for
 all cards is 657,60 €.

 I'd like the board to approve this sum for the production.

I prefer to abstain, for obvious reasons.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Huge problems with big documents

[Italo Vignoli]

On 2/7/13 9:07 AM, Giorgio Migliaccio wrote:

 Please find attached the concerning (main) document.

Mailing lists do not accept attachments. You should file a bug on
Bugzilla, where you can describe the issue and attach the document.

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Re: [board-discuss] 2013 budget as of today

[Italo Vignoli]

On 1/29/13 12:06 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote:

 For SPI, who kindly provide travel funding for many of our events, it
 seems that after lots of payments, there are still 31.000 USD in the
 bank. (Note: This money does not directly belong to TDF and is spent at
 the sole discretion of SPI for the LibreOffice community.)

Don't worry, I will spend a lot of money by traveling on behalf of TDF...

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Re: [board-discuss] additional FOSDEM budget

[Italo Vignoli]

+1

On 1/29/13 2:19 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote:
 +1 from my side, of course as well
 
 Florian Effenberger wrote on 2013-01-28 12:43:
 Hello,

 the board has previously approved [1] 2.000 € for FOSDEM collaterals.
 Because we would like to opt for higher quality t-shirts, plus produce
 some stickers in addition, I'd like to ask the board to approve an
 additional 600 € for collaterals.

 Although the amount sounds rather high, we try to give away t-shirts at
 FOSDEM for donations to get some return money, plus t-shirts not sold
 will be taken to other trade shows.

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Re: [board-discuss] [VOTE] Ask for additional employement budget

[Italo Vignoli]

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Hash: SHA1

On 1/24/13 7:31 PM, Thorsten Behrens wrote:

 Barring any other changes to taxes and social security dues over
 the year, I'd therefore ask the board to approve € 600.00 on top of
 the already-approved budget for employment, thus totalling an
 annual sum of
 
 € 37.307,40 + € 600.00 = € 37.907,40

+1

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