Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums - A Different Question
On 05/04/2011 12:46 PM, Augustine Souza wrote: Resources? Stop with the dehumanizing. They are human beings @ user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum and totally helpful. Don't be silly. Of course I meant the forums themselves when I said resources, not the people on them. Hence my also referring to the hypothetical forums that LibreOffice doesn't provide as resources. -- Isaac Hummel is...@daedaleus.com http://daedaleus.isaachummel.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums - A Different Question
On 05/03/2011 05:35 AM, Pieter E. Zanstra wrote: Om the basis of the discussions going on at this list, I do share your analysis as expressed in: http://daedaleus.isaachummel.com/2011/05/01/whither-openoffice/ But I wonder/doubt if the view the LibreOffice community is mired in excessive open source zeal and geek elitism also applies to the developers who do the real work. Fair enough. I put LibreOffice on my mother's Windows 7 laptop and she has nothing but praise for it. -- Isaac Hummel is...@daedaleus.com http://daedaleus.isaachummel.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice Math: There is no
On 05/03/2011 03:26 PM, Olivier Hallot wrote: Hi Does anybody knows if in LO Math there si a way to represent the mathematical symbol for There is no, which is a barred flipped E? Is it difficult to add it to the Elements windows? If a bug is already open, and one of you knows it, can I get the number to track it? Thanks in advance. This seems like something that fits much better in the LibreOffice-Users mailing list (which is designed for questions like this). Maybe you'd get a quicker response there. http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/#users -- Isaac Hummel is...@daedaleus.com http://daedaleus.isaachummel.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums - A Different Question
On 05/03/2011 10:17 PM, NoOp wrote: True. But again, that justifies continuing to use Oracle resources how? LibreOffice is a branch from OOo just as go-oo and associated linux distributions that used the go-oo packages were. A continued issue on the OOo user list was determining if a linux user was using a standard OOo, or if they were using linux distribution variant. A great deal of OOo list user time was determining if the poster was using a go-oo variant, and then redirecting them to their linux specific support facilities (ex: launchpad for Ubuntu OOo). LibreOffice (IMO) should 'man up' and either provide resources for their own forums, or as an interim just state that currently there are no such LO forums available. Or support: http://libreofficeforum.org/ or similar. I absolutely, 100% support LO setting up its own forum, or at least throwing support behind the unofficial LibreOffice forum you mention. But linking to the community-driven official OpenOffice forum is better than doing nothing. Going to an Oracle-sponsored site does not make one ceremonially unclean, nor does linking to it. Not linking to the resources that are out there while declining to provide resources of ones own is more embarrassing than linking to the community-run Oracle OpenOffice forums. -- Isaac Hummel is...@daedaleus.com http://daedaleus.isaachummel.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again
On 04/29/2011 11:33 AM, e-letter wrote: Not sure that a web forum suddenly makes the use of LO more appealing to non-geeks What's wrong with reading mailing list messages in digest mode and going to the searchable archive as and when appropriate. Has the been a poll on mailing list against forum? Regardless of the result, non-geeks should be encouraged to understand the benefits of a mailing list, similarly to explaining LO compared to m$o... I don't know of any scientific studies on the matter, unfortunately. Speaking from anecdotal evidence, though, mailing lists tend to be attached to open source and other techie projects, or to niche groups that are too small to justify setting up a web forum. Otherwise web forums dominate. Larger open source projects tend to have both forums (for the general userbase) and mailing lists (for the more technically oriented crowd of users and for those working directly on the project), bearing out my (admittedly unscientific) observation. I think this is because mailing lists have a higher barrier to entry. You need to subscribe to them to experience them the way they ought to be experienced. The archives are very bare bones and don't thread the conversations (which is also why I don't like digest mode; I want messages grouped according to subject, not the day they were sent, and I prefer it done three-dimensionally like Thunderbird's threading does). Okay, the Mail-archive.com ones do do threading, but they still only display only one message at a time (unlike a web forum) and you have to use the mouse to go forward and back, unlike in Thunderbird where you can navigate with the keyboard very adroitly. I much prefer my mailing list setup to any forum, but that's part of the problem: it's my setup. A user's experience with a mailing list depends heavily on what that user brings to the table. With a web forum, it'll be the same for everyone who isn't using an ancient browser. Making the general office software-using populace learn to love mailing lists in order to discuss and get help with LibreOffice problems seems to be a totally unnecessary increase in LibreOffice's barrier to entry. -- Isaac Hummel is...@daedaleus.com http://daedaleus.isaachummel.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again
On 04/29/2011 05:54 PM, Robert Holtzman wrote: I don't know what lists you have seen but I've seen quite a number of looong threads with highly involved posts and equally involved replies. IMO forums, texting, and twitter appeal to younger users with their shorter attention spans. Also, the quality of the answers/help is usually greater on lists than in forums. Did it ever occur to you that this 25(?) year old technology is good enough to have survived that long? The reason that you get long threads and highly involved posts in mailing lists is that mailing lists attract more savvy users. The hoi polloi usually don't use them, except to complain about how difficult it is to unsubscribe (see the LibreOffice-Users list). Ditto for why answers are often better. You get a better signal-to-noise ratio and the people asking the questions are on average better at it, which is always an aid to getting better help. If LibreOffice merely wants to be a little niche project for open source purists, then mailing list-only makes sense. If they want to replace OpenOffice.org, then that won't do. You need both. -- Isaac Hummel is...@daedaleus.com http://daedaleus.isaachummel.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again
On 04/18/2011 03:11 PM, RGB ES wrote: Well, even if I'd said that the ancient forums vs mailing lists war was not the point but *what people use*, the forums vs. mailing lists useless fight came again... At first I was tempted to refer how the English forums have near 200 new message each day and talk about the madness it would be to receive near 200 mails each day. I was tempted to talk about how I'm giving on-line support to users since a long time (I started using computers more than 25 years ago) and justify the fact that I know quite well the advantages and disadvantages of every possible communication system in use for the last 20 years... Many things... But I'm giving up. Have a nice day! And don't worry to answer me, I'm unsubscribing from the mailing list. I do agree that, whatever their limitations, forums are the discussion platform of the masses and LibreOffice needs to form a community that includes the non-geek populace if it is to become the premier version of OpenOffice/Star Office. However, in this day and age 200 mails a day is hardly madness. Not when all major free email accounts have gigabytes of storage and the ability to filter mailing lists into their own label/folder, and when Thunderbird is able to handle a folder of 15000+ messages without breaking a sweat even on an antiquated machine like mine (Pentium 4 with 640 megs of ram). -- Isaac Hummel is...@daedaleus.com http://daedaleus.isaachummel.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
