Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: x86_64 Windows build
On Sat, 2010-11-06 at 00:09 +, jonathon wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/04/2010 10:32 PM, Ian wrote: Ask how many 15 year olds have drafted an essay on their cell phone. The primary demographic that writes 携帯小説 (keitai shousetsu) is believed to be females between the age of sixteen and twenty six. OTOH, the first work to be described as 携帯小説 was written by a thirty year old male. On the gripping hand, 携帯小説 isn't really relevant to migrating an office suite to a mobile device, except as pointer to what people have already done. Exactly, and what is likely to happen is production of different form factors as more clone manufacturers realise there are new markets opening up for these technologies. I know at least one development company producing a device that will plug into Wifi, large screen and keyboard based on these technologies with a sub $50 target retail price. With any new way of working, by definition, it is innovators and early adopters that make it safe for the early and late majority to venture into the water. Perhaps its only usefulness is in showing why LibO requires a Japanese UI on any mobile platform it is ported to. Probably that too but first you have to decide the basic project is worth doing and then find the resources to do it. jonathon -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications A new approach to assessment for learning www.theINGOTs.org - 01827 305940 You have received this email from the following company: The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
[tdf-discuss] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: x86_64 Windows build
Forwarding, because my Desire has no idea what a reply-to address is :p -Damien Ellis (sent from my HTC Desire) - Reply message - From: thealmightyspace...@gmail.com thealmightyspace...@gmail.com Date: Fri, Nov 5, 2010 12:56 pm Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: x86_64 Windows build To: Ian ian.ly...@theingots.org I've written a thousand word essay (on digital convergence :) ) on my iPhone during a very long long long car trip, if that counts for anything. (also to prove a point to a teacher, about the very subject!). The battery life of mobile devices is amazing compared to that of laptops and the like - if you give users the experience they are looking for (a decent word processor), then you already have the portability, battery life and nearly always on handiness of said mobile device working for you. And if Regular Joe McJoeson downloads LibreOffice for Android, and thinks oh hey, this is pretty cool, and say if there was a non intrusive LibreOffice: for Windows, Linux and Mac screen in the loading process, they would be more interested in the desktop product. Getting a presence on the mobile platform could really get LibO out there, as mobile apps have a much lower effort level to install. Press a button and its done, unlike the desktop app, which is rather large and daunting to someone who just bumped into it. Just my 2 sporebucks. -Damien Ellis (sent from my HTC Desire) - Reply message - From: Ian ian.ly...@theingots.org Date: Fri, Nov 5, 2010 6:32 am Subject: [tdf-discuss] Re: x86_64 Windows build To: discuss@documentfoundation.org On Thu, 2010-11-04 at 16:20 -0400, Steven Shelton wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/4/2010 3:31 PM, e-letter wrote: In terms of priorities, making LO the default for mobile (e.g. android) is more important than windoze. Really? Because I can't recall the last time I drafted a legal brief on my cell phone. The legal profession is hardly a good precedent for technology innovation :-) Ask how many 15 year olds have drafted an essay on their cell phone. That would be a much more realistic test of the future. -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications A new approach to assessment for learning www.theINGOTs.org - 01827 305940 You have received this email from the following company: The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: x86_64 Windows build
Em 04-11-2010 17:31, e-letter escreveu: In terms of priorities, making LO the default for mobile (e.g. android) is more important than windoze. Wrong as of today. Windows counts of more than 95% of LO/OOo use. See download stats in OOo portal. Maybe in some future for mobiles. Much has been written in this thread, I make my point: Focus on what managers need(*). They need good spreadsheets and good presentations (Text document's are clerk's job). On mobiles: care to start make a ODP (presentation) and spreadsheet (ODS) viewers. Just in case you realy don't want to carry your laptop/netbook, because HDMI output is becoming standard on mobiles. (*) managers, sign checks and shout loud when things go wrong. -- Olivier Hallot Comitê Executivo The Document Foundation -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: x86_64 Windows build
Le 2010-11-05 05:10, Ian a écrit : On Fri, 2010-11-05 at 07:52 +, e-letter wrote: LO is never going to overcome m$ products on their own platform(s). Agreed, by the time there is any chance of this the world will have moved to a different platform. In one way it already has since ARM based mobile computer devices massively outnumber x86 now. The biggest market potential by far is mobile devices for ODF to become the default format. Yup. I don't agree totally with that statement. While Microsoft Works is likely to continue to be omnipresent, it is possible for LibreOffice to be a relatively important player on the Windows platform. For instance, Internet Explorer used to be the only browser on Windows computers; look at Firefox which is now a very important player, and Chrome which is making important inroads. As for becoming useful on the phone, I think the cell-phone platform limits a lot the editing functions available. One possibility would be to have a no-frills word processor that would remember all image and style information, yet allow the cell-phone user to write the text as is. This means that a lot of thought and work has to be done before porting it on the phone, and that a good compatible software needs to exist on real computers. One of the strengths of LibreOffice is document compatibility and UI compatibility between platforms. Within limits, the same has to be extended to the newer platforms, otherwise people might as well compose in their e-mail software. -- Michel Gagnon Montréal (Québec, Canada) -- http://mgagnon.net -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: x86_64 Windows build
On 2010-11-05 10:59 AM, Michel Gagnon wrote: As for becoming useful on the phone, I think the cell-phone platform limits a lot the editing functions available. One possibility would be to have a no-frills word processor that would remember all image and style information, yet allow the cell-phone user to write the text as is. This imo has the best chance of ever making it... 1. Create a simple viewer 2. Allow basic *content* editing, that perfectly preserves all else. Still a huge job, but not so much as simply converting LibO to run on mobile devices. -- Best regards, Charles -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: x86_64 Windows build
On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Charles Marcus cmar...@media-brokers.comwrote: On 2010-11-05 10:59 AM, Michel Gagnon wrote: As for becoming useful on the phone, I think the cell-phone platform limits a lot the editing functions available. One possibility would be to have a no-frills word processor that would remember all image and style information, yet allow the cell-phone user to write the text as is. This imo has the best chance of ever making it... 1. Create a simple viewer 2. Allow basic *content* editing, that perfectly preserves all else. Still a huge job, but not so much as simply converting LibO to run on mobile devices. Per mailing list etiquette, it's better to start a new thread to discuss mobile LibO. This thread is about what needs to be done to get native Win64 LibO, and how to find developers to join the effort. Simos -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: x86_64 Windows build
Quoting Simos Xenitellis: Per mailing list etiquette, it's better to start a new thread to discuss mobile LibO. This thread is about what needs to be done to get native Win64 LibO, and how to find developers to join the effort. It has beceom a thread on mobile LibO by default. We've been told that it's more important to cram it into a mobile device than to do a 64-bit Windows version. Developers can therefore concentrate on how to get people to do spreadsheets on a cell phone and forget about Win64. P. -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: x86_64 Windows build
Quoting Simos Xenitellis: Per mailing list etiquette, it's better to start a new thread to discuss mobile LibO. This thread is about what needs to be done to get native Win64 LibO, and how to find developers to join the effort. It has evolved into a thread on mobile LO by default. We've been told that it's more important to cram it into a mobile device than to do a 64-bit Windows version. Developers can therefore concentrate on how to get people to do spreadsheets on a cell phone and forget about Win64. P. -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: x86_64 Windows build
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/4/2010 3:31 PM, e-letter wrote: In terms of priorities, making LO the default for mobile (e.g. android) is more important than windoze. Really? Because I can't recall the last time I drafted a legal brief on my cell phone. - -- Steven Shelton -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFM0xWQXUonIzCvpdMRAnSCAJ4s3hGgdTtdAENyeudYKX/euYo26wCgpHa6 6MigCNNEtmMtVCvM0vxQDkA= =O91C -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: x86_64 Windows build
Quoting e-letter: In terms of priorities, making LO the default for mobile (e.g. android) is more important than windoze. That's certainly a novel approach: giving 90% of computer users lower priority so that 1% of users can prepare presentations on their cell phones. Bound to be a wild success. P. -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: x86_64 Windows build
In all fairness, Android tablets could become a large emerging market, but Windows is still by far the predominant market. On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 3:34 PM, Peter Rodwell pe...@intorg.org wrote: Quoting e-letter: In terms of priorities, making LO the default for mobile (e.g. android) is more important than windoze. That's certainly a novel approach: giving 90% of computer users lower priority so that 1% of users can prepare presentations on their cell phones. Bound to be a wild success. P. -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: x86_64 Windows build
Quoting T. J. Brumfield: In all fairness, Android tablets could become a large emerging market, but Windows is still by far the predominant market. But how many people will use them for heavy-duty word processing, spreadsheeting and presenting? LO/OO is a heavy-duty package for heavy-duty work, after all. I've tried typing on my stepson's iPad (on the couple of occasions when I've been able to prise it from his grip) and it's hopeless. OK for Web surfing, short e-mails, etc, but tablet ergonomics are completely unsuited for serious work. Even laptops are dubious (nasty keyboards, small screens, etc). P. -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: x86_64 Windows build
I'm agreeing with you that Windows is the dominant market and should be treated as such. However, in developing countries Android tablets may be the most accessible and affordable computing platform of the future. It shouldn't be ignored. I'd contend the priority should be on the primary platforms: Windows, Mac OS X and Linux. Next should be platforms of the future. On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Peter Rodwell pe...@intorg.org wrote: Quoting T. J. Brumfield: In all fairness, Android tablets could become a large emerging market, but Windows is still by far the predominant market. But how many people will use them for heavy-duty word processing, spreadsheeting and presenting? LO/OO is a heavy-duty package for heavy-duty work, after all. I've tried typing on my stepson's iPad (on the couple of occasions when I've been able to prise it from his grip) and it's hopeless. OK for Web surfing, short e-mails, etc, but tablet ergonomics are completely unsuited for serious work. Even laptops are dubious (nasty keyboards, small screens, etc). P. -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived *** -- I'm questioning my education Rewind and what does it show? Could be, the truth it becomes you I'm a seed, wondering why it grows -- Pearl Jam, Education -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: x86_64 Windows build
e-letter wrote: In terms of priorities, making LO the default for mobile (e.g. android) is more important than windoze. How quickly things change in the world of electronics. It wasn't that long ago, that phones were one thing, and computers quite another. -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: x86_64 Windows build
Robert Derman wrote: Peter Rodwell wrote: Quoting T. J. Brumfield: However, in developing countries Android tablets may be the most accessible and affordable computing platform of the future. It shouldn't be ignored. Agreed -- it certainly shouldn't be ignored, I just think that giving it priority over Windows is ridiculous, is all. Windows, Mac OS X and Linux. Next should be platforms of the future. Exactly! Oops! I deleted the letter I was going to reply to which was on the UI thread, but this thread is almost as on topic to what I intended to say so I will stick it onto this one.First thing, the font selector has been where it is for so long, that I think it would be a serious mistake to mess with it. From the very first WISIWIG word processors it has been at about that spot, and has worked about the way it does now. My first Windows WP was not MS Word, or even Word Perfect, it was a program that few people today even remember, WordStar.People just expect some of the most basic things in a WP program to be where they have always been, and it is unwise to change them without a truly compelling reason. I suspect that the actual typical user of OOo/LO is a home user, who uses it because they could not afford MS Word, or at least could not justify the cost of it for home use. Most of the documents created with Writer are probably not screenplays, legal pleadings, or technical manuals, but rather have file names like, Xmas Newsletr 10, or Letr to Aunt Joan, or Garagesalesign. The database is probably used most for things like keeping track of record or DVD collections, or membership lists for clubs or fraternal organizations. Little kids use Draw for a coloring book. Elementary school kids use Writer for their school papers, ones that have to be turned in as hard copy. If I had to guess, it would be that the single most common use for the spreadsheet is to do check registers for personal checking accounts. I would also guess that many of the businesses that use OOo/LO do so because someone in management used the program at home and liked it. Power user features and capabilities certainly lead to corporate and government use of the suite, but basic ease of use for simple things is what gets people to try it in the first place. I could be wrong about this, but what I suspect, is that nothing else could promote the popularity of LO more than having a good users manual in the download package. Despite the truth of the old saying When all else fails, read the manual. A lot of users like to read a good manual to find out what else they could do with a program that they aren't doing now. Also I would recommend formatting the manual for 8.5x11 rather than the usual 5x7 so that if the users want a hard copy it won't result in the usual horrible amount of paper waste that you get with 5x7 formats. For example being able to get the whole thing onto 60 pages rather than needing 100. Or perhaps format both ways, 5x7 for on screen, and 8.5x11 for printing. Help functions are OK as far as it goes, but many times you need a hard copy so that you can read how to do a thing while actually doing it. Many times I see the question, how can we be better than Microsoft, this is one place where this would be easy. In recent years MS has declined badly in user support, especially in the area of user manuals. They may do all right with the Fortune 500, but with small business, to say nothing of home users, frankly they suck! They have also gotten sloppy with little details about how their software works, one thing I have noticed, Win 7 files incorrectly, files with numeral titles, as an example, the following files 6, 6.5, 7, 7.5 end up filed in the following order 6.5, 6, 7.5, 7 We all know that this is idiotic and WRONG! My point is that it shouldn't be that hard to put out a product that people perceive as better than such junk. Time for me to get off of my soapbox now. Robert Derman Either my email program, or something along the way really messed up the formatting of this email, running all the paragraphs together. so I added several more C.R. between each paragraph and I will send it again and see if that fixes it. -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
