[OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo in Paris
posted to two lists... some will get this twice. Friends, I have been invited to a workshop in Paris on common use licensing of scientific data products. The workshop is jointly organized by CODATA, GBIF, and Science Commons, and will be held at the Sorbonne on Sep 24, 25. I am writing this email for three reasons -- 1. I will be, as usual, representing OSGeo interests as well, so any feedforward you have for me on licensing of geospatial data inasmuch as they are scientific data, please send it to me. 2. While most of the open geospatial world will be enjoying the beautiful environs of Victoria BC on Sep 24, 25, in the slim chance that some of our OSGeo-philes are in and around Paris at that time, I would love to meet with you. 3. Since I have never been to Paris before (a walk between Gare de l'est and Gare du Nord doesn't count), I am trying to stay over for a couple of days extra bookending the workshop. That coupled with the $ - € exchange rate and the location where I want to stay (walking distance of the Sorbonne) is making for a rather unaffordable trip. I am looking for accomodation suggestions from locals as it is not always the easiest trying to do these things over the internet. For now, I have a room reserved from Sep 23-27 at € 116 a night, which, while is rather inexpensive by Paris standards, is still rather expensive by my standards. Ideally, I am looking for a place in the € 60-80 range from Sep 22-27. Many thanks for any and all responses to the above. -- Puneet Kishor http://punkish.eidesis.org/ Nelson Institute for Environmental Studies http://www.nelson.wisc.edu/ Open Source Geospatial Foundation (OSGeo) http://www.osgeo.org/ Summer 2007 ST Policy Fellow, The National Academies http://www.nas.edu/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is there an Open Source software application thatwill draw a graticule on a map?
Markus, Many thanks for the info. What I'm looking for is a relatively simple GUI mapping application I can recommend to casual cartographers (in this case geologists), and I think Grass may be too big in this case. I see that the development of the [more native] Windows port of Grass 6.3 is moving along; I'll have to keep my eye on that... Thanks! Brent Fraser GeoAnalytic Inc. Calgary, Alberta - Original Message - From: Markus Neteler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: OSGeo Discussions discuss@lists.osgeo.org Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 11:23 PM Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is there an Open Source software application that will draw a graticule on a map? Hi Brent, with GRASS' ps.map you can do that rather easily: - define the raster and vector map names - define (optionally) legend stuff - activate geogrid to overlay a geographic grid onto the output map - define paper size It generated a Postscript file (use ps2pdf to make PDF) which can be printed then. See http://grass.itc.it/gdp/html_grass63/ps.map.html Example screenshot (a bit low-res, sorry): http://www.gdf-hannover.de/lit_html/grass60_v1.2/img35.png Code for that map: http://www.gdf-hannover.de/lit_html/grass60_v1.2_en/node78.html Markus On 9/6/07, Brent Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I've been looking for an Open Source desktop application that will: 1. Combine raster and vector spatial data, and (re)project them 2. Render a graticule (lines and labels showing latitude and longitude) (and no, I don't want to create a shapefile to do that) 3. Print to a large format plotter (paper 24 inches wide or greater) So far I've looked at uDig, Quantum GIS, and gvSig. As far as I can tell, none of them can do Step 2, and only gvSig does Step 3 successfully. Any pointers would be appreciated! Brent Fraser GeoAnalytic Inc. Calgary, Alberta ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org/ http://osgeo.org/grass ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[OSGeo-Discuss] Links For Scribus, Inkscape, and Sample OpenJUMP Maps
I should have included these links in my earlier post. http://www.inkscape.org/ http://www.scribus.net/ http://openjump.org/wiki/show/Printing+in+high-resolution http://wikitravel.org/en/Wikitravel:How_to_draw_a_map Landon Warning: Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately.___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is there an Open Source softwareapplicationthatwill draw a graticule on a map?
Landon, It's an interesting problem. From my perspective, a map without a graticule, scale bar, and projection statement (with parameter values!) is just a diagram (kind of like a tiff without geotiff tags or shapefile without a .prj file). It can be useful, but don't try to integrate any spatial data or measure any coordinates. A graticule straddles the spatial (GIS/drawing programs) and graphic (page layout) domains. Traditionally (on paper topographic maps) the graticule labels have been shown outside the mapped area and most GIS applications can't handle this unless they implement some kind of page layout functionality. And forget about the generic page layout programs placing a graticule as they have no world coordinate system functionality (without a plugin). So perhaps your solution is the answer: create open source mappping plugins for the page layout projects you've listed (and stop expecting GIS programs to layout and print a map). I'll have to look into that... And for you MapServer implementers, a homework assignment: create margins on your map with inline polygons to blank out the map data and emphasize your GRID labels (see attached map, er I mean diagram). Thanks! Brent Fraser GeoAnalytic Inc. Calgary, Alberta - Original Message - From: Landon Blake [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: OSGeo Discussions discuss@lists.osgeo.org Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 11:46 AM Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is there an Open Source softwareapplicationthatwill draw a graticule on a map? I've given this issue a lot of thought. It seems to me that cartographic map production really involves two (2) separate functions: [1] The ability to draw graphics and annotations. [2] The ability to layout graphical elements on a page or sheet. I think it is easy to underestimate the complexity of these two (2) functions. A GIS program will be a lot simpler and easier to maintain if it doesn't tackle these two (2) functions at all, but instead focuses on the management of spatial data. Really the display of this spatial data on a computer screen is just part of the user interface that helps the user manage the data. I think it is a lot smarter to leave the drawing to the drawing programs and the page layout to the page layout programs. For example, there is some limited support for printing and page layout in OpenJUMP via plug-ins, but it isn't anything terribly sophisticated. I think the best solution for the open source geospatial community is to export spatial data from our programs in an open format for graphics like SVG, and then enhance those graphics in an open source drawing program like Inkscape and layout map sheets in an open source desktop publishing application like Scribus. Imagine what we could accomplish as a community if we all used Inkscape and Scribus for cartographic map production instead of designing our own map production functionality. Imagine what could be accomplished if we took that time we would invest in implementing the drawing and page layout functionality that already existed in some high-quality applications and invested it instead in the other functions of our applications, or even better, in the drawing and page layout applications that we would use as replacements. I've contacted the Inkscape development team to ask about contributing. I have plans on helping out with the lib2geom library that will be integrated into Inkscape, although it means I need to learn C++, which gives me a serious headache. I haven't had time to get involved like I would want, but it is still an eventual goal of mine. I really encourage the open source geospatial community to take close look at Scribus and Inkscape as options for cartographic map production. OpenJUMP can export SVG, and some of our users have made beautiful maps with the two programs. I really don't think there is much you couldn't do in the realm of 2D maps with the two programs. There is even the potential here to share standard map sheet templates for Scribus and SVG graphics for things like north arrows and scale bars for Inkscape. Landon Blake (The Sunburned Surveyor) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brent Fraser Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 10:18 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; OSGeo Discussions Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is there an Open Source software applicationthatwill draw a graticule on a map? Puneet, I'm hoping that (someday?) high quality cartography WILL be point-and-click. The three apps I looked at come pretty close: uDig- sophisticated, complicated GUI; focus on GIS not cartography QGIS- simple GUI, a print composer, but features (e.g. a real graticule) missing gvSIG - look and feel of ArcView 3.x (the good and the bad), but no graticule I think Paul Ramsey said it best in the Directions Mag interview (http://www.directionsmag.com/article.php?article_id=2517tr v=1): The first project to produce a stable
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is there an Open Source software application thatwill draw a graticule on a map?
Brent, I am not sure ArcView or its open source replacement can produce the kind of stuff Markus has been producing (maybe it can, just that I haven't seen any). Most, really, really good cartographic output, the kind you can print at 1500 dpi on a Scitex printer at 8 feet by 20 feet requires a helluva lot of work, and lots of planning. If you pick up ESRI's map book, almost none of that stuff is produced with ArcView and home laser printer. It is likely, however, that when you say high quality cartography, you are not referring to this kind of stuff. Markus Neteler's stuff seemed to me of such beauty (raster software does make for wonderful output) that it is something worth trying to recreate. I am sure though that it is not point and click. Best is to let Markus opine on this. On 9/7/07, Brent Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Puneet, I'm hoping that (someday?) high quality cartography WILL be point-and-click. The three apps I looked at come pretty close: uDig- sophisticated, complicated GUI; focus on GIS not cartography QGIS- simple GUI, a print composer, but features (e.g. a real graticule) missing gvSIG - look and feel of ArcView 3.x (the good and the bad), but no graticule I think Paul Ramsey said it best in the Directions Mag interview (http://www.directionsmag.com/article.php?article_id=2517tr v=1): The first project to produce a stable and complete ArcView 3 replacement will gobble up a huge user share, and become the default application for building the high end analysis and cartography functionality. Brent Fraser GeoAnalytic Inc. Calgary, Alberta - Original Message - From: P Kishor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: OSGeo Discussions discuss@lists.osgeo.org Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 6:24 AM Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is there an Open Source software application thatwill draw a graticule on a map? On 9/6/07, Brent Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ,, Yikes! Is National-Topographic-Series quality cartography dead? Am I destined to print only pastel polygon diagrams on letter size paper if I adopt Open Source? ;) Write an emai to Markus Neteler and ask him for samples of stuff he has produced with Grass, a real GIS. The quality will blow you away. Granted, I have not seen that stuff on a large piece of paper, but even on the screen, it looks gorgeous. It is probably not easy to produce that kind of stuff, but good quality stuff never is point and click. (MapServer is not a GIS... it says so on the box it comes in). ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Puneet Kishor http://punkish.eidesis.org/ Nelson Institute for Environmental Studies http://www.nelson.wisc.edu/ Open Source Geospatial Foundation (OSGeo) http://www.osgeo.org/ Summer 2007 ST Policy Fellow, The National Academies http://www.nas.edu/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is there an Open Source software application thatwill draw a graticule on a map?
On 9/7/07, P Kishor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brent, I am not sure ArcView or its open source replacement can produce the kind of stuff Markus has been producing (maybe it can, just that I haven't seen any). Most, really, really good cartographic output, the kind you can print at 1500 dpi on a Scitex printer at 8 feet by 20 feet requires a helluva lot of work, and lots of planning. If you pick up ESRI's map book, almost none of that stuff is produced with ArcView and home laser printer. It is likely, however, that when you say high quality cartography, you are not referring to this kind of stuff. Markus Neteler's stuff seemed to me of such beauty (raster software does make for wonderful output) that it is something worth trying to recreate. I am sure though that it is not point and click. Best is to let Markus opine on this. I have a nice (complex) paper map done with ps.map by Municipality of Trento (Italy) on my office desk. About A1 or A0 size. I will try to make a photograph of it on Monday so that you get an impression. What you can do with GRASS/ps.map: - raster maps - vector maps, with all line thinkness, (rotated) labels, even optionally with optimized placement etc. - grids, graticules - symbols (EPS etc, incl rotation) - hatching - legends, titles, frame, etc - right res output as PostScript permits What's missing: - graphical point-and-click interface What's expected: - graphical point-and-click interface :) We are having it on the agenda to be developed for the Municipality of Trento. They are funding a series of GRASS improvements (financing from 2005-2009). It will be most likely done as part of the new Python based GRASS GUI which is available from GRASS-SVN. Certainly: the more people contribute the faster it goes. Cheers Markus ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is there an Open Source software applicationthatwill draw a graticule on a map?
Puneet, You're right; my goal is the 600dpi, 36 inch wide paper cartography. Basically, the kind of map you can produce in an hour or two (with the appropriate software and a $5000 HP plotter). This I think should be within the scope of Open Source GIS, while the pre-press/mass production/film writer stuff is not (not enough demand?). So to focus my investigation I started the week with a question: Using the Canadian federal government CanVec topographic vectors, how close to creating a printed National Topographic Map could I get using an Open Source GUI-based desktop GIS application? The answers: From a programmer:Pretty close. Look, the contours are brown! From a cartographer: Not close at all. Where's the graticule?! (no offense meant to programmers or cartographers!) Ahh, so much work to do... Brent Fraser GeoAnalytic Inc. Calgary, Alberta - Original Message - From: P Kishor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: OSGeo Discussions discuss@lists.osgeo.org Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is there an Open Source software applicationthatwill draw a graticule on a map? Brent, I am not sure ArcView or its open source replacement can produce the kind of stuff Markus has been producing (maybe it can, just that I haven't seen any). Most, really, really good cartographic output, the kind you can print at 1500 dpi on a Scitex printer at 8 feet by 20 feet requires a helluva lot of work, and lots of planning. If you pick up ESRI's map book, almost none of that stuff is produced with ArcView and home laser printer. It is likely, however, that when you say high quality cartography, you are not referring to this kind of stuff. Markus Neteler's stuff seemed to me of such beauty (raster software does make for wonderful output) that it is something worth trying to recreate. I am sure though that it is not point and click. Best is to let Markus opine on this. On 9/7/07, Brent Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Puneet, I'm hoping that (someday?) high quality cartography WILL be point-and-click. The three apps I looked at come pretty close: uDig- sophisticated, complicated GUI; focus on GIS not cartography QGIS- simple GUI, a print composer, but features (e.g. a real graticule) missing gvSIG - look and feel of ArcView 3.x (the good and the bad), but no graticule I think Paul Ramsey said it best in the Directions Mag interview (http://www.directionsmag.com/article.php?article_id=2517tr v=1): The first project to produce a stable and complete ArcView 3 replacement will gobble up a huge user share, and become the default application for building the high end analysis and cartography functionality. Brent Fraser GeoAnalytic Inc. Calgary, Alberta - Original Message - From: P Kishor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: OSGeo Discussions discuss@lists.osgeo.org Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 6:24 AM Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is there an Open Source software application thatwill draw a graticule on a map? On 9/6/07, Brent Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ,, Yikes! Is National-Topographic-Series quality cartography dead? Am I destined to print only pastel polygon diagrams on letter size paper if I adopt Open Source? ;) Write an emai to Markus Neteler and ask him for samples of stuff he has produced with Grass, a real GIS. The quality will blow you away. Granted, I have not seen that stuff on a large piece of paper, but even on the screen, it looks gorgeous. It is probably not easy to produce that kind of stuff, but good quality stuff never is point and click. (MapServer is not a GIS... it says so on the box it comes in). ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Puneet Kishor http://punkish.eidesis.org/ Nelson Institute for Environmental Studies http://www.nelson.wisc.edu/ Open Source Geospatial Foundation (OSGeo) http://www.osgeo.org/ Summer 2007 ST Policy Fellow, The National Academies http://www.nas.edu/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is there an Open Source software applicationthatwill draw a graticule on a map?
Brent Fraser wrote: So to focus my investigation I started the week with a question: Using the Canadian federal government CanVec topographic vectors, how close to creating a printed National Topographic Map could I get using an Open Source GUI-based desktop GIS application? The answers: From a programmer:Pretty close. Look, the contours are brown! From a cartographer: Not close at all. Where's the graticule?! (no offense meant to programmers or cartographers!) If you want to focus other people on your problem, why not point them to some free public data that illustrates the issues? Pick a Canadian NTS mapsheet, and give them the URIs to: - the CanMatrix product (a raster image made by scanning the front of the paper Canadian topo maps) - the CanVec Canadian National Topographic Database data that you want to use to produce 'the same' map P.S. You and I both know that the result of using that CanVec data won't exactly be the same as the CanMatrix product, but at least it will be a concrete example that people can use to 'get their hands dirty'. If people think they have a solution, they can even buy the actual paper map, and print their map made from the vector data, at the same size, and compare. -- Dave Patton Degree Confluence Project: Canadian Coordinator Technical Coordinator http://www.confluence.org/ FOSS4G2007: Workshop Committee Conference Committee http://www.foss4g2007.org/ Personal website: Maps, GPS, etc. http://members.shaw.ca/davepatton/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is there an Open Source softwareapplicationthatwill draw a graticule on a map?
Dave, Good point. My intent was to see if anyone else was interested Topo map style output and to gather any easily-transfered knowledge (and I got some great pointers, thank you everone!) about the Open Source projects out there. The lack of graticule implementation is just a curious hole in Open Source GUI GIS space, and it prevents me from un-installing ArcView 3.1. Sad, but not really a problem. I hope I didn't mislead anyone... Implementers, Please don't fire up the debuggers on my account, but if you've got some spare time and an interest in cartography, you can download Canadian topo data from the Geogratis site(http://geogratis.cgdi.gc.ca/), Here are links to my favorite topo, 082H04, Waterton Lakes, in a few formats: Shape: http://ftp2.cits.rncan.gc.ca/pub/canvec/50k_shp/082/h/canvec_082h04_shp.zip GML: http://ftp2.cits.rncan.gc.ca/pub/canvec/50k_gml/082/h/canvec_082h04_gml.zip and the scanned paper, GeoTiff: http://ftp2.cits.rncan.gc.ca/pub/canmatrix/50k_300dpi/082/h/canmatrix_082h04_tif.zip And FYI, as Dave points out, it's not possible to exactly replicate printed Topo map from the vectors (mostly due to annotation?), but it's fun to try. They even have rotation angles as an attribute in the buildings point layer! Thanks to all... Brent Fraser GeoAnalytic Inc. Calgary, Alberta - Original Message - From: Dave Patton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: OSGeo Discussions discuss@lists.osgeo.org Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 2:48 PM Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is there an Open Source softwareapplicationthatwill draw a graticule on a map? Brent Fraser wrote: So to focus my investigation I started the week with a question: Using the Canadian federal government CanVec topographic vectors, how close to creating a printed National Topographic Map could I get using an Open Source GUI-based desktop GIS application? The answers: From a programmer:Pretty close. Look, the contours are brown! From a cartographer: Not close at all. Where's the graticule?! (no offense meant to programmers or cartographers!) If you want to focus other people on your problem, why not point them to some free public data that illustrates the issues? Pick a Canadian NTS mapsheet, and give them the URIs to: - the CanMatrix product (a raster image made by scanning the front of the paper Canadian topo maps) - the CanVec Canadian National Topographic Database data that you want to use to produce 'the same' map P.S. You and I both know that the result of using that CanVec data won't exactly be the same as the CanMatrix product, but at least it will be a concrete example that people can use to 'get their hands dirty'. If people think they have a solution, they can even buy the actual paper map, and print their map made from the vector data, at the same size, and compare. -- Dave Patton Degree Confluence Project: Canadian Coordinator Technical Coordinator http://www.confluence.org/ FOSS4G2007: Workshop Committee Conference Committee http://www.foss4g2007.org/ Personal website: Maps, GPS, etc. http://members.shaw.ca/davepatton/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
