Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Supporting new projects

2007-10-11 Thread Dave Patton

Paul Spencer wrote:
I'd like to open a discussion on how OSGeo is (or is not) supporting 
brand new projects.


While at the FOSS4G 2007 conference (awesome job Paul R. and gang), a 
number of new people (new to the conference and/or to me) approached me 
to demonstrate their particular projects and ask how to make them Open 
Source.



Our current incubation process favours established projects,


For folks already established in OS and OSGeo, we have established 
communities around ourselves that can be used to attract people to new 
projects that we are spawning - Fusion, for instance.  For others, 
though, there is no such place to launch a new project and to try to 
build the community of users and developers required to build a 
project.  They have no clue where to start.


What do others think about this?  Should OSGeo be in the business of 
helping new OSGeo projects get off the ground?


I was away after FOSS4G2007 ended, and have just now
read through all the responses in this thread.

If you read Paul's original email, or the above condensed
version, I think many of the responses make sense, including
the creation of the Labs wiki page.

However, I'm not sure the issue has been properly addressed.

They have no clue where to start.
That's in the same paragraph where 'community' is mentioned
more than once.

In a reply to Howard's email, Paul said:
What I am concerned with is people who have a great idea but
don't know what to do with it, or how one goes about establishing
a viable community. The people that I spoke with last week didn't
know how to get started.

I think the answer to someone who doesn't know where to start
should be Join the OSGeo community - here's how to do that

Maybe there should be a new wiki page that such people can be
pointed to. That page, and the existing Labs wiki page, should
both be in the same wiki Category. The new page could certainly
reference the Labs page, as some people may be part of a project
community that wants to move towards incubation, but I didn't get
the sense from Paul's original email that is necessarily where
some of the people he spoke to should be starting. They maybe
just need to join OSGeo, and this mailing list, introduce
themselves and their idea/project, and ask the existing community
what their next step(s) should be.

--
Dave Patton

Degree Confluence Project:
Canadian Coordinator
Technical Coordinator
http://www.confluence.org/

FOSS4G2007:
Workshop Committee
Conference Committee
http://www.foss4g2007.org/

Personal website:
Maps, GPS, etc.
http://members.shaw.ca/davepatton/
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Integration test bed

2007-10-11 Thread Dave Patton

Tim Bowden wrote:

I believe the integration test bed didn't go quite as well as planned.
Any thoughts as to why, and what could be done next time to improve the
experience?


First, a bit of background.
--
http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/FOSS4G2007_IntegrationShowcase

The original idea of the FOSS4G2007 Integration Showcase
was that Sponsors and Exhibitors would cooperate to build
a set of data and services, running on various platforms, that
would show the integration at work. Each Sponsor/Exhibitor
would have 'the Showcase Diagram' in their booth, but with
highlights showing where their products/services/data
fit into the overall Showcase.

Refractions bootstrapped this process by providing a
server, and, after some data was loaded and a PostGIS
database setup, making it available on the Internet.

The original plan was to use data from a variety of
sources, but due to some issues with licensing, it
was decided to go with the OSGeo Public Geospatial
Data Committee's idea and use only publicly available
geodata. Data from some Canadian sources was loaded
onto the Refractions server.
http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/Canadian_Geodata

There was a plan at one point for the Integration
Showcase data/services to be made available for use
by Workshop/Lab Instructors for use in their classes,
but that was dropped due to performance concerns.

As Tim noted, the Integration Showcase didn't move
much beyond the initial server/data.
--


The future.
==
Justin Deoliveira, of the Open Planning Project, was in charge
of the Integration Showcase, and he loaded the Canadian geodata
onto the Refractions server. During FOSS4G2007 I had a
discussion with Justin and Chris Holmes, about the Integration
Showcase. What came out of that was an idea of 'how to do it
better in the future'. I then had subsequent discussions with
some other people at the conference about this idea. Here is my
interpretation of the general outline of what was discussed.

The showcase consists of data and the products needed to
process that data and make it available in a variety of ways.

All OSGeo projects must contribute to the showcase, and keep
maintaining their portion of the showcase.

The showcase would initially be built using some known set
of data. Preparation before FOSS4G might include adapting
the showcase to use a set of 'local data'. OSGeo local
chapters might also produce sets of 'local data' for
use with the showcase.

The building of 'the showcase' should be done by OSGeo, not
as part of the preparation for a particular conference. There
may be multiple 'versions' of the showcase over time, but
there should be a stable version well in advance of FOSS4G.

Each FOSS4G conference should have a 'track' that consists of
starting with the data and working through the processing
of that data and installation  configuration of all the
showcase software. Because the showcase was already built
before the conference, this 'track' can be setup as a set
of distinct 'modules'. That provides the flexibility for
different students to attend different parts of the 'track',
as well as being able to start each module with a known
working setup.

Workshop/Lab Instructors, Presenters, Sponsors, and Exhibitors
would be encouraged to make use of the showcase's capabilities.

The showcase should be made available in various 'formats'.
That might include having a version always running on the
telascience servers, and having a LiveCD/DVD version
available for download.

A showcase such as this, along with some 'marketing materials',
could be used by OSGeo evangelists in their activities.
==

--
Dave Patton

Degree Confluence Project:
Canadian Coordinator
Technical Coordinator
http://www.confluence.org/

FOSS4G2007:
Workshop Committee
Conference Committee
http://www.foss4g2007.org/

Personal website:
Maps, GPS, etc.
http://members.shaw.ca/davepatton/
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Integration test bed

2007-10-11 Thread Frank Warmerdam

Dave Patton wrote:

All OSGeo projects must contribute to the showcase, and keep
maintaining their portion of the showcase.


Dave,

We try to avoid using the word must too often for projects!


The showcase would initially be built using some known set
of data. Preparation before FOSS4G might include adapting
the showcase to use a set of 'local data'. OSGeo local
chapters might also produce sets of 'local data' for
use with the showcase.

The building of 'the showcase' should be done by OSGeo, not
as part of the preparation for a particular conference. There
may be multiple 'versions' of the showcase over time, but
there should be a stable version well in advance of FOSS4G.


I love the idea of maintaining a suite of services as an integration showcase
on an ongoing basis rather than as just a conference work item.  This connects
to the concept of a demonstration stack that we never really followed up on
either.  Basically to have a bunch of packages installed on a few centrally
managed servers that demonstrate our packages, and also demonstrates how they
integrate.

If we set it up properly it should be practical to delivery a copy of the
demonstration stack to run on servers at the conference to avoid problems
with saturated links to the external network.

One obvious place to set up some of this demonstration stack / integration
showcase would be one or a couple of telascience blades.

Best regards,
--
---+--
I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
and watch the world go round - Rush| President OSGeo, http://osgeo.org

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[OSGeo-Discuss] Fwd: [Nosi-discussion] New FOSS Primer released

2007-10-11 Thread Tyler Mitchell

FYI...

Begin forwarded message:


...


Today, we're releasing the new version of the tried and true NOSI  
primer. Choosing and Using Free and Open Source Software: A Primer  
for Nonprofits is a no-nonsense, easy to read report that helps  
nonprofits understand what free and open source software (FOSS) is,  
what options are available for their organizations, and how they  
can access support for using FOSS.


The primer includes all of the basics, and also discusses how to  
look at TCO and strategic value in making decisions about FOSS.  
There are many case studies describing the use of various FOSS  
applications in the sector.


Fabulously, it also includes a live feed via API from Social Source  
Commons of a particular set of 5 FOSS toolboxes: software for the  
server, for the web, and for the three flavors of desktops,  
Windows, Mac and Linux.


Read it on the web, or download a PDF: http://nosi.net/projects/primer

We're looking forward to your feedback and contributions! Feel free  
to comment - you don't need to create an account on the NOSI site  
to comment on the primer.


Also, I'll be starting a discussion about NOSI's future in just a  
bit, on this very list, so stay tuned.


Peace,
Michelle
--
Michelle Murrain
Nonprofit Open Source Initiative

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Govt involvement in FOSS4G

2007-10-11 Thread Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo)


On 8-Oct-07, at 6:59 PM, Tim Bowden wrote:

In planning our bid for the '09 conf, the Aust-NZ chapter (in  
formation)

is looking at how we can maximise the value of the conf to Govt
attendees.  In talking to govt people here in Aust, and following
comments on this list in the past, it seems govt people have a harder
time than necessary getting to the conf.  I'd like suggestions as  
to how

we can maximise the value proposition for govt attendance at future
conf's.


If you have good contacts within the gov't, one way to help add value  
is to provide some sort of venue for them to hold a meeting.  If you  
have a conference centre available and can give them a room - it  
might be an attractive opportunity for a group (of spatial data  
managers, national spatial direction working groups, etc.) to meet  
face-to-face.  Thereby killing two birds with one stone: come and  
learn, and come to meet with peers/colleagues.


From my past experience there was always a need for dispersed  
employees to meet together, but travelling *only* for the sake of  
meeting wasn't always seen as valuable.  But toss in a great  
conference, some excellent workshops and help provide a venue for  
other gov't meetings to happen and the value becomes obvious.  If you  
really want to add more value, you could also have one session at the  
event that they help organise - they could show off their FOSS apps,  
or could explain particular challenges they have in general, they  
could even have an interactive session to elicit input/feedback from  
solution providers/FOSS user who may be there.  You get the idea...


Tyler

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Integration test bed

2007-10-11 Thread Justin Deoliveira
 
 The future.
 ==
 Justin Deoliveira, of the Open Planning Project, was in charge
 of the Integration Showcase, and he loaded the Canadian geodata
 onto the Refractions server. During FOSS4G2007 I had a
 discussion with Justin and Chris Holmes, about the Integration
 Showcase. What came out of that was an idea of 'how to do it
 better in the future'. I then had subsequent discussions with
 some other people at the conference about this idea. Here is my
 interpretation of the general outline of what was discussed.


Part of the problem was that I was not aggressive enough about making
sure people had demos in place. Everyone was so busy (understandably) as
the conference got near that it just fell off. And I am no exception :).
Also as Jody stated the other big issue was hardware availability. Some
interested parties just could not participate because they did not have
a machine to work with on site.

I think to pull this off next time around one will need to put something
a bit more formal in place. Perhaps having people sign up for a
machine to be used for the integration showcase well before hand (like
around the same time they submit workshops). An additional machine is
then rented for them (or perhaps one of the workshop machines is reused).

Having some sort of contract like this in place would be a bit more
binding and would force people to ensure things are set up before hand.
 Especially since a machine has been set aside for them. Organizers
could then treat showcase setup like workshop setup.

My 2c.

-Justin
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[OSGeo-Discuss] California Chapter

2007-10-11 Thread Landon Blake
Has there ever been any discussion of forming a California chapter of
the OSGeo? I would think with all the geo guys in the Bay Area that this
would have been done already.

 

I would be interested in helping out with this, although I don't know if
I want to run and administer things on my own. Are there any other
interested OSGeo members in California?

 

I was thinking we could form a chapter with one or two clear and simple
goals. This would help our group to be focused and have something to
actually work together on. I'm pretty flexible to what the goals might
be, although I have a particular interest in a couple of areas. :]

 

Any thoughts?

 

Landon Blake (A.K.A. - The Sunburned Surveyor)

 



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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] California Chapter

2007-10-11 Thread Allan Hollander
At FOSS4G I was chatting a bit with Tyler Mitchell about the possibility of 
starting a California chapter, so that makes at least two of us. I think 
there are several other folks here at UC Davis who would be interested as 
well. I am quite open to what the goals of such a group would be, though I 
would like to see it foster regional get-togethers.

Any other Californians here on this list?

-- Allan Hollander
Davis, California


On Thursday 11 October 2007 13:00, Landon Blake wrote:
 Has there ever been any discussion of forming a California chapter of
 the OSGeo? I would think with all the geo guys in the Bay Area that this
 would have been done already.



 I would be interested in helping out with this, although I don't know if
 I want to run and administer things on my own. Are there any other
 interested OSGeo members in California?



 I was thinking we could form a chapter with one or two clear and simple
 goals. This would help our group to be focused and have something to
 actually work together on. I'm pretty flexible to what the goals might
 be, although I have a particular interest in a couple of areas. :]



 Any thoughts?



 Landon Blake (A.K.A. - The Sunburned Surveyor)





 Warning:
 Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects
 including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the
 intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
 distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If
 you have received this information in error, please notify the sender
 immediately.
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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] California Chapter

2007-10-11 Thread Landon Blake
Thanks for the feedback Allan. Physical meetings can be tough with my
schedule, but David isn't too far from Stockton. :]

If we decide to get something going, I could put up a simple website and
mailing list. Still, I don't know if two people is enough to get things
moving.

While we are talking about goals, are there any pressing regional or
local GIS and/or open source needs that you can think of?

Landon

-Original Message-
From: Allan Hollander [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 2:21 PM
To: discuss@lists.osgeo.org
Cc: Landon Blake
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] California Chapter

At FOSS4G I was chatting a bit with Tyler Mitchell about the possibility
of 
starting a California chapter, so that makes at least two of us. I think

there are several other folks here at UC Davis who would be interested
as 
well. I am quite open to what the goals of such a group would be, though
I 
would like to see it foster regional get-togethers.

Any other Californians here on this list?

-- Allan Hollander
Davis, California


On Thursday 11 October 2007 13:00, Landon Blake wrote:
 Has there ever been any discussion of forming a California chapter of
 the OSGeo? I would think with all the geo guys in the Bay Area that
this
 would have been done already.



 I would be interested in helping out with this, although I don't know
if
 I want to run and administer things on my own. Are there any other
 interested OSGeo members in California?



 I was thinking we could form a chapter with one or two clear and
simple
 goals. This would help our group to be focused and have something to
 actually work together on. I'm pretty flexible to what the goals
might
 be, although I have a particular interest in a couple of areas. :]



 Any thoughts?



 Landon Blake (A.K.A. - The Sunburned Surveyor)





 Warning:
 Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against
defects
 including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not
the
 intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
 distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
If
 you have received this information in error, please notify the sender
 immediately.


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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] California Chapter

2007-10-11 Thread Allan Hollander
In terms of initial web presence Tyler suggested setting up a California page 
on the OSGeo wiki, to be linked from the local chapters page at 
http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/Local_Chapters. Also OSGeo hosts many of the 
local chapter mailing lists -- see http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo.

One good project might be to provide an OSGeo presence at the 2008 CalGIS 
conference (http://www.calgis.org/), which will be in April in Modesto. I've 
never been to one of their conferences but it has grown to be a big deal. 
(Unfortunately, I won't be able to make the 2008 meeting, already having made 
out-of-state travel plans for that date). Evidently at last year's meeting 
there was a good deal of interest in open source geospatial (e.g. 
http://base.bargc.org/?q=node/85): for one thing Paul Ramsey and the 
Refractions folks had an exhibit there -- see Paul's blog post at  
http://geotips.blogspot.com/2007/04/calgis-notes-day-1.html. If OSGeo were 
there in 2008 it might be very timely.

-- Allan

On Thursday 11 October 2007 15:08, Landon Blake wrote:
 Thanks for the feedback Allan. Physical meetings can be tough with my
 schedule, but David isn't too far from Stockton. :]

 If we decide to get something going, I could put up a simple website and
 mailing list. Still, I don't know if two people is enough to get things
 moving.

 While we are talking about goals, are there any pressing regional or
 local GIS and/or open source needs that you can think of?

 Landon

 -Original Message-
 From: Allan Hollander [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 2:21 PM
 To: discuss@lists.osgeo.org
 Cc: Landon Blake
 Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] California Chapter

 At FOSS4G I was chatting a bit with Tyler Mitchell about the possibility
 of
 starting a California chapter, so that makes at least two of us. I think

 there are several other folks here at UC Davis who would be interested
 as
 well. I am quite open to what the goals of such a group would be, though
 I
 would like to see it foster regional get-togethers.

 Any other Californians here on this list?

 -- Allan Hollander
 Davis, California

 On Thursday 11 October 2007 13:00, Landon Blake wrote:
  Has there ever been any discussion of forming a California chapter of
  the OSGeo? I would think with all the geo guys in the Bay Area that

 this

  would have been done already.
 
 
 
  I would be interested in helping out with this, although I don't know

 if

  I want to run and administer things on my own. Are there any other
  interested OSGeo members in California?
 
 
 
  I was thinking we could form a chapter with one or two clear and

 simple

  goals. This would help our group to be focused and have something to
  actually work together on. I'm pretty flexible to what the goals

 might

  be, although I have a particular interest in a couple of areas. :]
 
 
 
  Any thoughts?
 
 
 
  Landon Blake (A.K.A. - The Sunburned Surveyor)
 
 
 
 
 
  Warning:
  Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against

 defects

  including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not

 the

  intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
  distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.

 If

  you have received this information in error, please notify the sender
  immediately.

 Warning:
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[OSGeo-Discuss] BC Local Chapter

2007-10-11 Thread Jason Birch
It looks like FOSS4G has resulted in an increase in local interest, one of the 
very real benefits to hosting this great conference.  As a result, a group of 
folks here in BC are looking at putting together a local chapter.
 
If you're in British Columbia and interested in getting involved (heck, if 
you're just visiting, I'm sure we won't say no) have a look at our wiki page, 
and add your name to the list:
 
http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/British_Columbia_Chapter
 
We hope to have a mailing list set up soon; I'll add the details to the wiki 
once they're available.
 
Jason
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