Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open Technology Group, Inc. announces PostGIS & UMN MapServer Training

2008-01-20 Thread Erik Uzureau
Having read through this thread, I think Dave's suggestion is spot on.
This Service Providers Directory (SPD) is an excellent resource, but
what it is missing is the ability to send updates or news...

It seems pretty clear that there are people here who are [at least
mildly] offended by seeing advertisements on this list. I would bet,
however, that there are also many people on this list who are [at
least mildly] interested in receiving this sort of update.

The idea to create a new list specifically for this sort of posting
cleanly solves this problem. It delivers pertinent information to
those who are interested and bothers not the rest.

--e

On 1/18/08, Dave Patton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Arnulf Christl wrote:
>
> [snip a bunch of really good stuff - thanks Arnulf]
>
> > Does this mean that all businesses providing this kind of service should
> > now spam this list with their latest announcements?
>
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo
> OSGeo-Announce:
> OSGeo Announcements and News
>
> OSGeo-Discuss:
> OSGeo Discussions
>
> Therefore, how about adding something like
> OSGeo-SPD-News:
> Announcements, News, and Press Releases from
> members of the OSGeo Service Provider Directory
>
> Having such a list would then preclude sending
> those types of materials on OSGeo-Discuss.
>
> --
> Dave Patton
>
> System Developer
> National Forest Inventory
> Pacific Forestry Centre
> Natural Resources Canada
>
> Degree Confluence Project:
> Canadian Coordinator
> Technical Coordinator
> http://www.confluence.org/
>
> OSGeo FOSS4G2007 conference:
> Workshop Committee Chair
> Conference Committee member
> http://www.foss4g2007.org/
>
> Personal website:
> Maps, GPS, etc.
> http://members.shaw.ca/davepatton/
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] 2008 Events on your calendar

2008-01-20 Thread H . S . Rai
On Jan 10, 2008 3:45 AM, Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> http://www.osgeo.org/event/2008/01/10/list/all/all

> If you have an event that you think is important to OSGeo members to
> know about, attend or that open source will be presented at, please
> drop me a note with details and I'll add them to the site.

Though it is now over, but keeping in calandar will be nice for record purpose.

http://www.gndec.ac.in/gis/

With regards,

-- 
H.S.Rai
http://hs.raiandrai.com/
___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open Technology Group, Inc. announces PostGIS & UMN MapServer Training

2008-01-20 Thread Cameron Shorter

Arnulf,
Excellent soap box speech. I'd love you to put it on a web page 
somewhere so that I can reference it next time this topic comes up. A 
wiki might be good so that we can collectively tweak it (as you suggest).


Arnulf Christl wrote:

Howard Butler wrote:


On Jan 17, 2008, at 1:34 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote:
If you were to lead the development of this material and put it into 
the Open Source (with your name attached) this would give you extra 
credibility and marketing reach.


Why?  Why must OTG put their hard earned training materials in the 
public domain and give them away for free for "extra credibility"?  
What would then be the incentive for someone to pay $$$ to go to an 
intensive training session?  


Entrepreneurs, we have thoroughly analyzed this aspect over the past 
years and come to the conclusion that publishing course material 
openly is not detrimental to earning money. Quite the contrary it even 
helps us making more business. The added value is generated at several 
levels including both hard cash and marketing (find out details 
below). As active FOSSGIS software contributors we are happy to foster 
and promote the projects that we are involved with. In some cases (for 
example MapServer and PostGIS) this is the only way that we can give 
back our 2Ct contribution.
To better understand the involved factors we have studied uses cases 
in detail. First we have grouped our clients into three distinct 
categories who *use* our course material, these are: * Experts

* Students
* Professionals

Then we have identified three distinct groups who *profit* from having 
course material released under an open and free license. These are: * 
Clients (~users, as categorized  above) * Creators (for example the 
WhereGroup or Chandler OTG who produce "Intellectual Property") * the 
FOSSGIS project and communities that are in the focus of the training 
material (here MapServer and PostGIS).


A multidimensional matrix would probably make this transparent but 
unfortunately I am too dumb to create it and will need to use words to 
explain the dependencies.
1. Real Experts (hackers, nerds, freaks). They would never pay for our 
courses because they are too damn smart. They wont offer courses 
themselves (which would be detrimental to our business) because it 
would bore them to death. But they still profit from having access to 
material because it will speed up understanding the corresponding 
FOSSGIS project. This will make them choose this project one over 
another one because good developers are also lazy. This is good for 
the FOSSGIS project and community because those people listen to what 
those real experts have to say, recommend, etc. Hard to measure - but 
unquestionably there.
2. Students. They will not be able to pay our rates anyway, so we do 
not loose anything if we give them the material for free. Quite the 
contrary, when those students leave school and come into a position 
where they have to decide where to go - who you'r gonna ask - 
Ghostbusters. This is a long term strategy that only market leaders 
can follow. Corporations Besides that students can potentially also 
enhance the course material, keep it up to date, etc. But only if it 
is available under a FOSS license, etc. This currently does not happen 
because universities and educational personnel are still in the late 
sixties wrt their knowledge about Open Source but so what. We have to 
be patient. Eventually the old farts who don't get it will be replaced 
by those that we have helped educate with our freely available course 
material and Bingo! If you lock your training material away and treat 
it as "Intellectual Property" you will be the only idiot who invests 
keeping it up to date. Why not exploit those who are prepared to give 
(FOSS4G 08, Keynote by Damian Conway)?


3. Professionals: Those are the ones that pay us money. They have a 
problem on their hand, a budget to solve it and limited time. These 
are the ones we love, we live off them. They would never bother to try 
and learn by themselves with freely available material because they 
have the resources to do it professionally and get somebody to explain 
it to them. They don't have the time to learn it by themselves. If 
they don't have the budget, they are not interesting to us anyway.
All folks from these three groups will see who created the course 
material and will memorize them as the experts on the topic. The GNU 
FDL license has a clause where invariant sections can be defined, 
typically this could be the front page and back cover, there you can 
find the authors, company logo and web site links or the creators' 
individual address, contacts. Link to the repository where the 
document is maintained, mailing list or whatever you want to advertise 
as important for this publication.
Therefore our competitors who offer the same training courses with our 
material (Outrageous! My "Property") always advertise us as the real 
real experts. Who're