[OSGeo-Discuss] This Thread is Dead (was Re: Comparison between MapServer/OpenLayers and ESRI ArcIMS)
Message subjects, like diapers, need to be changed once in a while. Usually for the same reasons, too. Traian Stanev wrote: However, they (the US govt.) don’t even need a specific legal provision to spy on data that is hosted outside the US, and they’ve been doing that since forever… ;-) *From:* discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] *On Behalf Of *Richard Desrochers *Sent:* Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:34 PM *To:* rkgeo...@cadmaps.com; OSGeo Discussions *Subject:* Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Comparison between MapServer/OpenLayers and ESRI ArcIMS One thing to consider using a cloud approach with Amazon is the license agreement concerning your data. Under the Patriot Act in the US all data hosted in the US could be made available to the US government. Not all corporations are ready to live with that. Richard 2009/5/30 Randy George rkgeo...@cadmaps.com mailto:rkgeo...@cadmaps.com Cloud options are looking interesting. http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/ Windows, Linux, Solaris options I imagine ESRI license entanglement with virtual servers could be a problem. But no problem at all with Open Source GIS stacks. No license to get tangled with load balancing and auto scaling where servers come and go as needed. Mostly I've seen small business interest since they tend to take overhead costs more seriously. It might be useful to include a Cloud based server solution addendum, because that would be less optimal for an ESRI vendor and could look good compared to in-house hardware. Unfortunately, medium and large organizations seem to have budget allocations already in place for the big ticket approach. But then in this economy even that could be changing. AWS now includes Load Balancing and Auto Scaling options as well as S3 Backup, multiple offsite elastic block store duplication, edge cache, and elastic IP. http://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2009/05/17/monitoring-auto-scaling-elastic-load-balancing/ And for the real bleeding edge http://aws.amazon.com/elasticmapreduce/ (Not a selling point to small, medium, or large organizations, unless academically oriented :-) rkgeorge -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Jason Birch Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 5:49 PM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Comparision between MapServer/OpenLayers and ESRI ArcIMS I think that it's generally less fear of the unknown or job security than it is the cost of adding complexity to what is often an already over-extended support load. In many cases it just makes sense to spend $1000 for a server OS that doesn't require additional training, is easy to get qualified techs for, and just works with the existing systems. It doesn't matter how easy Linux is; it's one more thing to keep track of and one more thing to go wrong. If you want to win the open source battle at small organisations that don't already have OS operating system tendencies, focus on the application level where you can make a strong business case on a feature-by-feature level, and with additional arguments about truly open data being more sustainable and less risky. Personally I think that an open source or bust attitude is not very pragmatic. Sell open source software where it is the best tool for the job, but pick your battles. Jason -Original Message- From: Alex Mandel Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 4:25 PM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Comparision between MapServer/OpenLayers and ESRI ArcIMS That would be fear of the unknown(non gui) and job security at work. Wouldn't want someone else in the org who knows more about running servers. Maybe you can get them to throw a bone to demo something on a virtual machine hosted elsewhere(Amazon) just to show how easy it is. Welcome to the land of small to medium government agencies, etc. The best thing here is showing examples from equivalent groups, of which there are plenty online now. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Richard Desrochers ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] This Thread is Dead (was Re: Comparison between MapServer/OpenLayers and ESRI ArcIMS)
All, This THREAD will never be dead, only the subject will change (I'm afraid.) :c) bobb Bill Thoen wrote: Message subjects, like diapers, need to be changed once in a while. Usually for the same reasons, too. Traian Stanev wrote: However, they (the US govt.) don’t even need a specific legal provision to spy on data that is hosted outside the US, and they’ve been doing that since forever… ;-) *From:* discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] *On Behalf Of *Richard Desrochers *Sent:* Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:34 PM *To:* rkgeo...@cadmaps.com; OSGeo Discussions *Subject:* Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Comparison between MapServer/OpenLayers and ESRI ArcIMS One thing to consider using a cloud approach with Amazon is the license agreement concerning your data. Under the Patriot Act in the US all data hosted in the US could be made available to the US government. Not all corporations are ready to live with that. Richard 2009/5/30 Randy George rkgeo...@cadmaps.com mailto:rkgeo...@cadmaps.com Cloud options are looking interesting. http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/ Windows, Linux, Solaris options I imagine ESRI license entanglement with virtual servers could be a problem. But no problem at all with Open Source GIS stacks. No license to get tangled with load balancing and auto scaling where servers come and go as needed. Mostly I've seen small business interest since they tend to take overhead costs more seriously. It might be useful to include a Cloud based server solution addendum, because that would be less optimal for an ESRI vendor and could look good compared to in-house hardware. Unfortunately, medium and large organizations seem to have budget allocations already in place for the big ticket approach. But then in this economy even that could be changing. AWS now includes Load Balancing and Auto Scaling options as well as S3 Backup, multiple offsite elastic block store duplication, edge cache, and elastic IP. http://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2009/05/17/monitoring-auto-scaling-elastic-load-balancing/ And for the real bleeding edge http://aws.amazon.com/elasticmapreduce/ (Not a selling point to small, medium, or large organizations, unless academically oriented :-) rkgeorge -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Jason Birch Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 5:49 PM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Comparision between MapServer/OpenLayers and ESRI ArcIMS I think that it's generally less fear of the unknown or job security than it is the cost of adding complexity to what is often an already over-extended support load. In many cases it just makes sense to spend $1000 for a server OS that doesn't require additional training, is easy to get qualified techs for, and just works with the existing systems. It doesn't matter how easy Linux is; it's one more thing to keep track of and one more thing to go wrong. If you want to win the open source battle at small organisations that don't already have OS operating system tendencies, focus on the application level where you can make a strong business case on a feature-by-feature level, and with additional arguments about truly open data being more sustainable and less risky. Personally I think that an open source or bust attitude is not very pragmatic. Sell open source software where it is the best tool for the job, but pick your battles. Jason -Original Message- From: Alex Mandel Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 4:25 PM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Comparision between MapServer/OpenLayers and ESRI ArcIMS That would be fear of the unknown(non gui) and job security at work. Wouldn't want someone else in the org who knows more about running servers. Maybe you can get them to throw a bone to demo something on a virtual machine hosted elsewhere(Amazon) just to show how easy it is. Welcome to the land of small to medium government agencies, etc. The best thing here is showing examples from equivalent groups, of which there are plenty online now. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Richard Desrochers ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] OGC geospatial rights mgt. summit
Doesn't the USGS already release a ton of data in the public domain? I also thought an organization interested in standards for geospatial data might be interested in geospatial data licensing. They seem like parallel tracks. Landon Office Phone Number: (209) 946-0268 Cell Phone Number: (209) 992-0658 -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Ian Turton Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 1:53 PM To: OSGeo Discussions Cc: punk...@eidesis.org Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OGC geospatial rights mgt. summit On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Landon Blake lbl...@ksninc.com wrote: How about OGC support for the Science Commons work on a public domain or creative commons type license for geospatial data. That's not going to happen. OGC has many national mapping agencies as members and USGS and OS are never going to allow this. Plus it isn't any of the OGC's business as to what sort of licenses are used on data. Ian ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Warning: Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OGC geospatial rights mgt. summit
On Jun 1, 2009, at 12:20 PM, Landon Blake wrote: Doesn't the USGS already release a ton of data in the public domain? I also thought an organization interested in standards for geospatial data might be interested in geospatial data licensing. They seem like parallel tracks. OSGeo, OGC, GSDI, and probably other organizations all present different views into dealing with data. Aligning with any of these has its pluses and minuses. I think it boils down to where the inertia is. If there seems to be a current lack of intensity, then one interpretation is that there hasn't been enough critical mass in any one place to achieve the intensity. Depending on the organization, some of the energy put into moving the topic forward may have to be used to counter other interests within that organization. Thus, one approach is to assess where to best apply positive energy without having to counter lots of resistance. Maybe that place is within Science Commons itself. Allan Landon Office Phone Number: (209) 946-0268 Cell Phone Number: (209) 992-0658 -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Ian Turton Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 1:53 PM To: OSGeo Discussions Cc: punk...@eidesis.org Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OGC geospatial rights mgt. summit On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Landon Blake lbl...@ksninc.com wrote: How about OGC support for the Science Commons work on a public domain or creative commons type license for geospatial data. That's not going to happen. OGC has many national mapping agencies as members and USGS and OS are never going to allow this. Plus it isn't any of the OGC's business as to what sort of licenses are used on data. Ian ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Warning: Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Allan Doyle Director of Technology MIT Museum | http://web.mit.edu/museum | +1.617.452.2111 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
