[OSGeo-Discuss] Open Education Content
hi all i got new thing from canada like http://cmer.cis.uoguelph.ca/ and also JEDI from philipina http://www.jediproject.net and i got also from blender guy http://www.gryllus.net/Blender/3D.html can share this in GIS world because we need that thx -- Frans Thamura Meruvian. Experiential Tempation of Java and Enterprise OpenSource Meruvian bukan hanya membuat anak SMK menjadi bisa tapi SAKTI, malah saktinya SAKTI Mandraguna. Mobile: +62 855 7888 699 Blog Profile: http://frans.thamura.info We provide services to migrate your apps to Java (web), in amazing fast and reliable. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and Proprietary Algorithms [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Bruce, For your information, I expect to be talking to Chris, from the National Archives Australia this coming week. Apparently they store their data sets in Open formats, but don't know how to store GIS datasets in open formats. I'm hoping that we can help. Bruce Bannerman wrote: IMO: Just another thought on this issue (though we do seem to be recycling arguments over the years...): Assuming that I have a very large archive of spatial data, be it imagery or any other spatial format and that I store my data in a variety of proprietary formats: In ten years from now, can I be sure that: - the company that created, understands, and holds the IP in the data format will still be around? - there will still be software that runs on the then current operating environment, that can read and 'fully exploit' the data in the proprietary standard? - that this future software will work seamlessly with my then current spatial environment? - if all of the above risks prove to eventuate, can I be sure that I'll be able to salvage my data into another format, retaining its complete semantic context? IMO, it is a high risk proposition to lock public (or private) archives away in proprietary data formats. It makes more sense to use open standards and formats that are publically available. Bruce Bannerman -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Michael P. Gerlek Sent: Friday, 21 August 2009 6:55 AM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and Proprietary Algorithms Some clarifications: - MrSID has both lossy and lossless modes - MrSID is not fractal based; it uses wavelets (and arithmetic encoding) - you can't copyright algorithms; the MrSID source code certainly is, however - MrSID relies on a number of patents, not all of which are owned by LizardTech - reading MrSID does not require any fees; we have libraries you can download, although they are not open source That said, some editorial comments (although I'm now wishing I hadn't been so quick to rise to Landon's bait :-) - Some of you know the history of trying to open source MrSID; I won't go into that here, except to say that LizardTech doesn't own all of the required IP needed to make that happen. - If we are speaking of the NAIP data, then no, it is not exclusively available in MrSID format; it is also shipped as GeoTIFFs. - JPEG 2000 is a very robust open standard alternative to MrSID, and a number of players already support it (including LizardTech), but not enough to make it viable for certain domains like NAIP. - some of you also know the history on open JP2 support: there is today no open source implementation of JP2 that is suitable for geo work. Alas. -mpg From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Eric Wolf Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 2:15 PM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and Proprietary Algorithms The MRSID format is a very special case - and perhaps an opportunity for a new FOSS file format. MRSID is a lossless, fractal-based, multi-scale raster compression format. LizardTech has the algorithms to encode and decode MRSID locked up in copyrights, and I believe, patents. Even companies like ESRI shell out big bucks to LizardTech to be able to read and write the MRSID format. I guess I missed the context of the discussion. Is the government releasing certain data exclusively in this format? If so, I think the argument can be made against this practice. The different in compression between MRSID and gziped TIFFs isn't really that great in this day of cheap disks and fat pipes. -Eric -=--=---===---=--=-=--=---==---=--=-=- Eric B. WolfNew! 720-334-7734 USGS Geographer Center of Excellence in GIScience PhD Student CU-Boulder - Geography ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Cameron Shorter Geospatial Systems Architect Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050 Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254 Think Globally, Fix Locally Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source http://www.lisasoft.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File FormatsandProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
That is great. Thanks! -isl ---Original Message--- From: Michael P. Gerlek m...@lizardtech.com Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File FormatsandProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] Sent: Aug 21 '09 13:59 Yes, JP2 supports signed and unsigned types of up to ~24 bits. And lots of channels (bands). And alpha masking. And arbitrary metadata blobs (geospatial and otherwise). -mpg -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Lucena, Ivan Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 12:22 PM To: OSGeo Discussions; OSGeo Discussions Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File FormatsandProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] But you can't compress data types other than byte in JPG. Can you do that in JP2K? ---Original Message--- From: Landon Blake lbl...@ksninc.com Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File FormatsandProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] Sent: Aug 21 '09 12:42 Paul, I was wondering the same thing. It seems a little like choosing to drive a Honda Accord, or a Ferrari. The Ferrari is a lot faster and comes with a better looking trophy wife (or husband), but the Honda is a lot easier to fix. (Try finding an affordable Ferrari mechanic in Stockton, California.) To tie this back into our original discussion, it seems like the government should be choosing to drive a Honda Accord when it can, instead of the Ferrari. I guess you'd really have to crunch the numbers and see if the savings in bandwidth/disk space costs were really worth the compression savings that result from a proprietary compression scheme (wavelet black magic). The problem with this is a lot of the benefits that come from the Honda Accord (open image format + open compression algorithm) aren't easily calculated in dollars and cents. Still, this speaks to an important truth I have discovered in open source development: Simple is better, even when it isn't necessarily faster and smaller. I'd rather have code that I can understand, or a file format that a programmer in 20 years will understand, than a Ferrari you can't drive unless you have a PHD and did a thesis on wavelet compression. :] Landon Office Phone Number: (209) 946-0268 Cell Phone Number: (209) 992-0658 -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Paul Ramsey Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 10:36 AM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File FormatsandProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] So hung up on wavelets, we are. Internally tiled TIFF with JPEG compression and similarly formatted internal overviews can achieve 10:1 compression rates without noticeable image quality reductions, and as an added bonus can be decompressed a heck of a lot faster than wavelet-based formats. The wavelet stuff is k00l, in that there is no need for an overview pyramid (it's implicit in the compression math) and much higher compression rates can be achieved. But operationally, you can go a long way with the more primitive (open image format + open compression algorithm) approach. P. ___ Discuss mailing list disc...@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Warning: Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately. ___ Discuss mailing list disc...@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File FormatsandProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Hi Landon, It has been an interesting discussion, algorithms copyrights, most used formats, limitations, internal details, etc. I definitely agree that it got out of control and we should end some place but I and going to give you a quick answer. What are the limitations of Geotiff/JPEG compared with the proprietary alternatives? - It is lossy (not that JPEG itself can't be lossless. you can search for libjpeg.doc for more info). - It can't store NDVI, Temperature or any other calculated or remotely sensored data in decimal values. My sincere best regards, Ivan ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open Source Lurkers
On 2009/08/21 11:55 AM, Landon Blake wrote: I would like to get some comments on a phenomenon I have discovered among the OpenJUMP community. I know for sure of one (1) company that maintains a separate fork of OpenJUMP, but which monitors our mailing list and likely grabs patches form our source code repository. They never participate in the forums or make known their use of OpenJUMP in any other public manner. I couldn't for the life of me figure out why this company wouldn't take a more active role in supporting the OpenJUMP community. Some companies, governments, and institutions have policies in place that prohibit or limit the ability of employees to 'participate' on forums or mailing lists. Lurking by reading blogs, list archives, forum postings, etc. may be allowed, but employees may not be permitted, during 'work hours' to participate. For some people, if it's 'about the job' they won't then use their own off-work time to participate, and even for those that do, they may be prohibited from making any mention that they work for company X, so you may have participation from one or more people from company X, but not know it. -- Dave Patton CIS Canadian Information Systems Victoria, B.C. Degree Confluence Project: Canadian Coordinator Technical Coordinator http://www.confluence.org/ Personal website: Maps, GPS, etc. http://members.shaw.ca/davepatton/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
