[OSGeo-Discuss] Open Education Content

2009-08-22 Thread Frans Thamura
hi all

i got new thing from canada like http://cmer.cis.uoguelph.ca/

and also JEDI from philipina http://www.jediproject.net

and i got also from blender guy http://www.gryllus.net/Blender/3D.html

can share this in GIS world

because we need that

thx


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Meruvian bukan hanya membuat anak SMK menjadi bisa tapi SAKTI, malah
saktinya SAKTI Mandraguna.


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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and Proprietary Algorithms [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

2009-08-22 Thread Cameron Shorter

Bruce,
For your information, I expect to be talking to Chris, from the National 
Archives Australia this coming week.


Apparently they store their data sets in Open formats, but don't know 
how to store GIS datasets in open formats. I'm hoping that we can help.


Bruce Bannerman wrote:

IMO:


Just another thought on this issue (though we do seem to be recycling arguments 
over the years...):


Assuming that I have a very large archive of spatial data, be it imagery or any 
other spatial format and that I store my data in a variety of proprietary 
formats:


In ten years from now, can I be sure that:

- the company that created, understands, and holds the IP in the 
  data format will still be around?


- there will still be software that runs on the then current
  operating environment, that can read and 'fully exploit' the data
  in the proprietary standard?

- that this future software will work seamlessly with my then current 
  spatial environment?


- if all of the above risks prove to eventuate, can I be sure that I'll
  be able to salvage my data into another format, retaining its complete 
  semantic context?



IMO, it is a high risk proposition to lock public (or private) archives away in 
proprietary data formats. It makes more sense to use open standards and formats 
that are publically available.



Bruce Bannerman



 

  

-Original Message-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org 
[mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Michael 
P. Gerlek

Sent: Friday, 21 August 2009 6:55 AM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and 
Proprietary Algorithms


Some clarifications:

 


- MrSID has both lossy and lossless modes

- MrSID is not fractal based; it uses wavelets (and 
arithmetic encoding)


- you can't copyright algorithms; the MrSID source code 
certainly is, however


- MrSID relies on a number of patents, not all of which are 
owned by LizardTech


- reading MrSID does not require any fees; we have libraries 
you can download, although they are not open source


 

That said, some editorial comments (although I'm now wishing 
I hadn't been so quick to rise to Landon's bait :-)


 

- Some of you know the history of trying to open source 
MrSID; I won't go into that here, except to say that 
LizardTech doesn't own all of the required IP needed to make 
that happen.


- If we are speaking of the NAIP data, then no, it is not 
exclusively available in MrSID format; it is also shipped as GeoTIFFs.


- JPEG 2000 is a very robust open standard alternative to 
MrSID, and a number of players already support it (including 
LizardTech), but not enough to make it viable for certain 
domains like NAIP.


- some of you also know the history on open JP2 support: 
there is today no open source implementation of JP2 that is 
suitable for geo work.  Alas.


 


-mpg

 

 

From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org 
[mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Eric Wolf

Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 2:15 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and 
Proprietary Algorithms


 

The MRSID format is a very special case - and perhaps an 
opportunity for a new FOSS file format. MRSID is a lossless, 
fractal-based, multi-scale raster compression format. 
LizardTech has the algorithms to encode and decode MRSID 
locked up in copyrights, and I believe, patents. Even 
companies like ESRI shell out big bucks to LizardTech to be 
able to read and write the MRSID format.


 

I guess I missed the context of the discussion. Is the 
government releasing certain data exclusively in this format? 
If so, I think the argument can be made against this 
practice. The different in compression between MRSID and 
gziped TIFFs isn't really that great in this day of cheap 
disks and fat pipes.


 


-Eric


-=--=---===---=--=-=--=---==---=--=-=-
Eric B. WolfNew! 720-334-7734
USGS Geographer
Center of Excellence in GIScience
PhD Student
CU-Boulder - Geography




 


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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File FormatsandProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

2009-08-22 Thread Lucena, Ivan
That is great. Thanks!

-isl


  ---Original Message---
  From: Michael P. Gerlek m...@lizardtech.com
  Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File   
 FormatsandProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
  Sent: Aug 21 '09 13:59
  
  Yes, JP2 supports signed and unsigned types of up to ~24 bits.  And lots of 
 channels (bands).  And alpha masking.  And arbitrary metadata blobs 
 (geospatial and otherwise).
  
  -mpg
  
  
  -Original Message-
  From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org 
 [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Lucena, Ivan
  Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 12:22 PM
  To: OSGeo Discussions; OSGeo Discussions
  Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File 
 FormatsandProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
  
  But you can't compress data types other than byte in JPG. Can you do that in 
 JP2K?
  
  
    ---Original Message---
    From: Landon Blake lbl...@ksninc.com
    Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File 
 FormatsandProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
    Sent: Aug 21 '09 12:42
    
    Paul,
    
    I was wondering the same thing.
    
    It seems a little like choosing to drive a Honda Accord, or a Ferrari.
    The Ferrari is a lot faster and comes with a better looking trophy wife
    (or husband), but the Honda is a lot easier to fix. (Try finding an
    affordable Ferrari mechanic in Stockton, California.)
    
    To tie this back into our original discussion, it seems like the
    government should be choosing to drive a Honda Accord when it can,
    instead of the Ferrari.
    
    I guess you'd really have to crunch the numbers and see if the savings
    in bandwidth/disk space costs were really worth the compression savings
    that result from a proprietary compression scheme (wavelet black
    magic).
    
    The problem with this is a lot of the benefits that come from the Honda
    Accord (open image format + open compression algorithm) aren't easily
    calculated in dollars and cents.
    
    Still, this speaks to an important truth I have discovered in open
    source development: Simple is better, even when it isn't necessarily
    faster and smaller.
    
    I'd rather have code that I can understand, or a file format that a
    programmer in 20 years will understand, than a Ferrari you can't drive
    unless you have a PHD and did a thesis on wavelet compression. :]
    
    Landon
    Office Phone Number: (209) 946-0268
    Cell Phone Number: (209) 992-0658
    
    
    
    -Original Message-
    From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
    [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Paul Ramsey
    Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 10:36 AM
    To: OSGeo Discussions
    Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File
    FormatsandProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
    
    So hung up on wavelets, we are.
    
    Internally tiled TIFF with JPEG compression and similarly formatted
    internal overviews can achieve 10:1 compression rates without
    noticeable image quality reductions, and as an added bonus can be
    decompressed a heck of a lot faster than wavelet-based formats. The
    wavelet stuff is k00l, in that there is no need for an overview
    pyramid (it's implicit in the compression math) and much higher
    compression rates can be achieved. But operationally, you can go a
    long way with the more primitive (open image format + open compression
    algorithm) approach.
    
    P.
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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File FormatsandProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

2009-08-22 Thread Lucena, Ivan
Hi Landon,

It has been an interesting discussion, algorithms copyrights, most used 
formats, limitations, internal details, etc. I definitely agree that it got out 
of control and we should end some place but I and going to give you a quick 
answer.

  What are the limitations of Geotiff/JPEG compared with the proprietary 
 alternatives?

- It is lossy (not that JPEG itself can't be lossless. you can search for 
libjpeg.doc for more info).

- It can't store NDVI, Temperature or any other calculated or remotely sensored 
data in decimal values.

My sincere best regards,

Ivan
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open Source Lurkers

2009-08-22 Thread Dave Patton

On 2009/08/21 11:55 AM, Landon Blake wrote:

I would like to get some comments on a phenomenon I have discovered
among the OpenJUMP community. I know for sure of one (1) company that
maintains a separate fork of OpenJUMP, but which monitors our mailing
list and likely grabs patches form our source code repository. They
never participate in the forums or make known their use of OpenJUMP in
any other public manner.



I couldn't for the life of me figure out why this company wouldn't take
a more active role in supporting the OpenJUMP community.


Some companies, governments, and institutions have policies
in place that prohibit or limit the ability of employees to
'participate' on forums or mailing lists. Lurking by reading
blogs, list archives, forum postings, etc. may be allowed, but
employees may not be permitted, during 'work hours' to participate.
For some people, if it's 'about the job' they won't then use
their own off-work time to participate, and even for those that
do, they may be prohibited from making any mention that they
work for company X, so you may have participation from one
or more people from company X, but not know it.

--
Dave Patton
CIS Canadian Information Systems
Victoria, B.C.

Degree Confluence Project:
Canadian Coordinator
Technical Coordinator
http://www.confluence.org/

Personal website:
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