[OSGeo-Discuss] Documenting GIS Data Models (Again): Using DXF

2009-09-09 Thread Landon Blake
I posted a few weeks back I posted about possible ways to document and
share GIS data models. I decided to move forward with a graphical
approach. 

 

I started building diagrams to document my GIS data model for the Public
Land Survey System in the United States. I am drawing these diagrams in
a CAD program. When I get things ironed out I hope to release the
following items to the GIS community:

 

-  My completed GIS data model in DXF format that can be used as
an example or template for other models.

-  A set of CAD blocks that can be used to build similar
diagrams.

 

If I like how things come together with the diagrams, I might try
converting the diagrams to SVG. The diagrams would be much prettier in
SVG, but I am quicker with CAD than I am with Inkscape, and I want to
get a prototype completed quickly.

 

This will make a lot more sense when you get to see the example
diagrams.

 

I welcome any collaboration on this effort. If there is interest, I
could move this discussion to the Standards mailing list. It would be
great to get input from interested parties now, while the diagrams are
still taking shape.

 

Landon

 



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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Documenting GIS Data Models (Again): Using DXF

2009-09-09 Thread Craig Miller
Landon,

 

I missed your previous post.  I'm not sure if you are modeling GIS Objects
or a relational database but am guessing you are modeling GIS objects.
Since I missed the earlier post(s). Is there a reason why traditional OO
diagrams such as UML Class diagrams won't work for the GIS data you are
modeling?

 

Craig

 

 

From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Landon Blake
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 12:48 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Documenting GIS Data Models (Again): Using DXF

 

I posted a few weeks back I posted about possible ways to document and share
GIS data models. I decided to move forward with a graphical approach. 

 

I started building diagrams to document my GIS data model for the Public
Land Survey System in the United States. I am drawing these diagrams in a
CAD program. When I get things ironed out I hope to release the following
items to the GIS community:

 

- My completed GIS data model in DXF format that can be used as an
example or template for other models.

- A set of CAD blocks that can be used to build similar diagrams.

 

If I like how things come together with the diagrams, I might try converting
the diagrams to SVG. The diagrams would be much prettier in SVG, but I am
quicker with CAD than I am with Inkscape, and I want to get a prototype
completed quickly.

 

This will make a lot more sense when you get to see the example diagrams.

 

I welcome any collaboration on this effort. If there is interest, I could
move this discussion to the Standards mailing list. It would be great to get
input from interested parties now, while the diagrams are still taking
shape.

 

Landon

 

 

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including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you
have received this information in error, please notify the sender
immediately.

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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Documenting GIS Data Models (Again): Using DXF

2009-09-09 Thread Landon Blake
Craig,

 

Because I am working with simple features, the entities I'm modeling are
more like tables in a database than they are objects from
object-oriented software architecture.

 

My basic set-up is looking something like this:

 

A sheet for each simple feature type in the data model. This sheet
contains the following elements:

 

-  A table describing the features attributes.

-  A table describing limitations or restrictions on the
attribute values.

-  A table describing any attribute value domains used in the
simple feature.

-  A brief description of the simple feature type.

-  Notes explaining the creation/extraction, modification, and
destruction policies for the simple feature type.

 

I'm thinking there may be two (2) additional sheets for each simple
feature type. One of these sheets will contain:

-  Topology restrictions for this simple feature type.

-  Data on the spatial relationships this simple feature type
participates in.

-  Data on the temporal relationships this simple feature type
participates in.

-  Data on the relationship with non-spatial entities (tables)
that this simple feature type participates in.

 

The second sheet will contain the metadata policy and information on
dataset-level and feature-level metadata that should be created and
maintained for the simple feature type.

 

I believe there will be similar sheets for the temporal events and
non-spatial features in the GIS data model.

 

Some of this is still taking shape in my head. In the end, it is
probably going to look and function like a set of civil engineering
plans. :]

 

I've just started work on the first sheet I described in this message,
which documents the attributes for a simple feature type.

 

Landon

Office Phone Number: (209) 946-0268

Cell Phone Number: (209) 992-0658

 

 



From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Craig Miller
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 12:58 PM
To: 'OSGeo Discussions'
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Documenting GIS Data Models (Again): Using
DXF

 

Landon,

 

I missed your previous post.  I'm not sure if you are modeling GIS
Objects or a relational database but am guessing you are modeling GIS
objects.  Since I missed the earlier post(s)... Is there a reason why
traditional OO diagrams such as UML Class diagrams won't work for the
GIS data you are modeling?

 

Craig

 

 

From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Landon Blake
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 12:48 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Documenting GIS Data Models (Again): Using DXF

 

I posted a few weeks back I posted about possible ways to document and
share GIS data models. I decided to move forward with a graphical
approach. 

 

I started building diagrams to document my GIS data model for the Public
Land Survey System in the United States. I am drawing these diagrams in
a CAD program. When I get things ironed out I hope to release the
following items to the GIS community:

 

-   My completed GIS data model in DXF format that can be used as an
example or template for other models.

-   A set of CAD blocks that can be used to build similar
diagrams.

 

If I like how things come together with the diagrams, I might try
converting the diagrams to SVG. The diagrams would be much prettier in
SVG, but I am quicker with CAD than I am with Inkscape, and I want to
get a prototype completed quickly.

 

This will make a lot more sense when you get to see the example
diagrams.

 

I welcome any collaboration on this effort. If there is interest, I
could move this discussion to the Standards mailing list. It would be
great to get input from interested parties now, while the diagrams are
still taking shape.

 

Landon

 

 

Warning:
Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against
defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is
not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please
notify the sender immediately.

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Documenting GIS Data Models (Again): Using DXF

2009-09-09 Thread Brian Russo
I think it's an interesting problem to solve (Sharing gis models/processes),
but...

* Way too heavyweight for us, I don't have time/interest to build 
maintain sheets of DXFs manually
* Of little practical use for us since our processes typically grow pretty
organically with small meetings and whiteboards/stickies, eventually we are
going to stop maintaining these 'heavy' model diagrams.
* Probably more useful for very large teams defining massive workflows with
well-defined requirements/outputs, but I don't really work on those types of
problems often (nor personally know many that really do anymore - and they'd
probably already have some dialect of UML or ERM)
* Can't easily convert those DXFs into GDB/DB schemas or into the processes
themselves, etc, so hence little use at the tech level

It might be more useful to define a simple standardized set of symbols that
handles 80% of what we do, and then for more complex processes just lets you
name it, treat them like blackboxes and just annotate them or something.
Personally I would just probably use simple data flow  entity-relationship
diagrams. If there was a simple system that modelled common spatial analysis
processes via symbols then I might be interested in that.

I'm skeptical on the real world utility of building/maintaining large sets
of diagrams that A) Don't fit into the business process generation/capture
processes and B) Don't easily convert into the actual code/schemas
underlying.

Perhaps figure out what the problem you're really trying to solve is. I.e.
What am I trying to achieve via sharing models?

- bri

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Landon Blake lbl...@ksninc.com wrote:

  I posted a few weeks back I posted about possible ways to document and
 share GIS data models. I decided to move forward with a graphical approach.



 I started building diagrams to document my GIS data model for the Public
 Land Survey System in the United States. I am drawing these diagrams in a
 CAD program. When I get things ironed out I hope to release the following
 items to the GIS community:



 -  My completed GIS data model in DXF format that can be used as
 an example or template for other models.

 -  A set of CAD “blocks” that can be used to build similar
 diagrams.



 If I like how things come together with the diagrams, I might try
 converting the diagrams to SVG. The diagrams would be much prettier in SVG,
 but I am quicker with CAD than I am with Inkscape, and I want to get a
 prototype completed quickly.



 This will make a lot more sense when you get to see the example diagrams.



 I welcome any collaboration on this effort. If there is interest, I could
 move this discussion to the Standards mailing list. It would be great to get
 input from interested parties now, while the diagrams are still taking
 shape.



 Landon




 *Warning:
 *Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against
 defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is
 not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
 distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you
 have received this information in error, please notify the sender
 immediately.

 ___
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 Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
 http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Documenting GIS Data Models (Again): Using DXF

2009-09-09 Thread Craig Miller
Rupert Essinger designed a visual GIS workflow language in 1991.
http://www.ncgia.ucsb.edu/Publications/Tech_Reports/91/91-6.pdf  

Max Egenhofer designed an entire Direct manipulation UI around Map Algebra.
http://www.spatial.maine.edu/~max/MapAlgebraSurvey.pdf

Both might be inspiring to someone wishing to have a formal framework for
documenting GIS workflow in a simple and intuitive way.

 

I'm still unclear on what type of GIS data models the original poster wants
to document as Smallworld, ArcGIS, GRASS, and others all have quite
different approaches to modeling.

 

If it's OO data, etc then UML class diagrams work great and don't need to be
heavy.  In software dev there are many tools that keep the data models in
sync with the code, there is no reason why the same thing couldn't be
created for GIS data modeling.  The diagrams could be GIS independent, with
underlying drivers to read/write data models for particular GIS packages.

 

If it is a data model, then there are already tools for keeping an
Entity-Relationship Model (ERM) in sync with the data table.  Geometry is
just another data type in the Simple Features view of the world.

 

Craig

Geospatial Software Architect

Spatial Minds, LLC http://spatialminds.com/ 

 

From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Brian Russo
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 2:49 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Documenting GIS Data Models (Again): Using DXF

 

I think it's an interesting problem to solve (Sharing gis models/processes),
but...

 

* Way too heavyweight for us, I don't have time/interest to build  maintain
sheets of DXFs manually

* Of little practical use for us since our processes typically grow pretty
organically with small meetings and whiteboards/stickies, eventually we are
going to stop maintaining these 'heavy' model diagrams.

* Probably more useful for very large teams defining massive workflows with
well-defined requirements/outputs, but I don't really work on those types of
problems often (nor personally know many that really do anymore - and they'd
probably already have some dialect of UML or ERM)

* Can't easily convert those DXFs into GDB/DB schemas or into the processes
themselves, etc, so hence little use at the tech level

 

It might be more useful to define a simple standardized set of symbols that
handles 80% of what we do, and then for more complex processes just lets you
name it, treat them like blackboxes and just annotate them or something.

Personally I would just probably use simple data flow  entity-relationship
diagrams. If there was a simple system that modelled common spatial analysis
processes via symbols then I might be interested in that.

 

I'm skeptical on the real world utility of building/maintaining large sets
of diagrams that A) Don't fit into the business process generation/capture
processes and B) Don't easily convert into the actual code/schemas
underlying.

 

Perhaps figure out what the problem you're really trying to solve is. I.e.
What am I trying to achieve via sharing models?

 

- bri

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Landon Blake lbl...@ksninc.com wrote:

I posted a few weeks back I posted about possible ways to document and share
GIS data models. I decided to move forward with a graphical approach. 

 

I started building diagrams to document my GIS data model for the Public
Land Survey System in the United States. I am drawing these diagrams in a
CAD program. When I get things ironed out I hope to release the following
items to the GIS community:

 

-  My completed GIS data model in DXF format that can be used as an
example or template for other models.

-  A set of CAD blocks that can be used to build similar diagrams.

 

If I like how things come together with the diagrams, I might try converting
the diagrams to SVG. The diagrams would be much prettier in SVG, but I am
quicker with CAD than I am with Inkscape, and I want to get a prototype
completed quickly.

 

This will make a lot more sense when you get to see the example diagrams.

 

I welcome any collaboration on this effort. If there is interest, I could
move this discussion to the Standards mailing list. It would be great to get
input from interested parties now, while the diagrams are still taking
shape.

 

Landon

 

 

Warning:
Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects
including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you
have received this information in error, please notify the sender
immediately.


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[OSGeo-Discuss] RE: Documenting GIS Data Models (Again): Using DXF [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

2009-09-09 Thread Bruce Bannerman
IMO:

Hi Landon,

Data models with DXF? You're making life difficult for yourself...


You may wish to have a look at the HollowWorld [1] developed by Australia's 
CSIRO.

It will help you model your data using UML to generate standards compliant GML 
application schemas. 



[1] https://www.seegrid.csiro.au/twiki/bin/view/AppSchemas/HollowWorld


Bruce Bannerman



 

 -Original Message-
 From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org 
 [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Landon Blake
 Sent: Thursday, 10 September 2009 5:48 AM
 To: OSGeo Discussions
 Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Documenting GIS Data Models (Again): 
 Using DXF
 
 I posted a few weeks back I posted about possible ways to 
 document and share GIS data models. I decided to move forward 
 with a graphical approach. 
 
  
 
 I started building diagrams to document my GIS data model for 
 the Public Land Survey System in the United States. I am 
 drawing these diagrams in a CAD program. When I get things 
 ironed out I hope to release the following items to the GIS community:
 
  
 
 -  My completed GIS data model in DXF format that can 
 be used as an example or template for other models.
 
 -  A set of CAD blocks that can be used to build 
 similar diagrams.
 
  
 
 If I like how things come together with the diagrams, I might 
 try converting the diagrams to SVG. The diagrams would be 
 much prettier in SVG, but I am quicker with CAD than I am 
 with Inkscape, and I want to get a prototype completed quickly.
 
  
 
 This will make a lot more sense when you get to see the 
 example diagrams.
 
  
 
 I welcome any collaboration on this effort. If there is 
 interest, I could move this discussion to the Standards 
 mailing list. It would be great to get input from interested 
 parties now, while the diagrams are still taking shape.
 
  
 
 Landon
 
  
 
 
 
 Warning:
 Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed 
 against defects including translation and transmission 
 errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are 
 hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or 
 copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you 
 have received this information in error, please notify the 
 sender immediately.
 
 ___
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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] RE: Documenting GIS Data Models (Again): Using DXF [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

2009-09-09 Thread Landon Blake
Obviously DXF isn't a big hit with this community. :]

Thanks for the comments Bruce and Craig. I will consider them carefully.
I may write a short article or blog post outlining my goals and my
decisions for choosing the format I did.

Things are still up in the air, so the feedback is appreciated and will
make a difference.

Landon
Office Phone Number: (209) 946-0268
Cell Phone Number: (209) 992-0658
 
 
-Original Message-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Bruce Bannerman
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 4:48 PM
To: 'OSGeo Discussions'
Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] RE: Documenting GIS Data Models (Again): Using
DXF [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

IMO:

Hi Landon,

Data models with DXF? You're making life difficult for yourself...


You may wish to have a look at the HollowWorld [1] developed by
Australia's CSIRO.

It will help you model your data using UML to generate standards
compliant GML application schemas. 



[1] https://www.seegrid.csiro.au/twiki/bin/view/AppSchemas/HollowWorld


Bruce Bannerman



 

 -Original Message-
 From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org 
 [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Landon Blake
 Sent: Thursday, 10 September 2009 5:48 AM
 To: OSGeo Discussions
 Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Documenting GIS Data Models (Again): 
 Using DXF
 
 I posted a few weeks back I posted about possible ways to 
 document and share GIS data models. I decided to move forward 
 with a graphical approach. 
 
  
 
 I started building diagrams to document my GIS data model for 
 the Public Land Survey System in the United States. I am 
 drawing these diagrams in a CAD program. When I get things 
 ironed out I hope to release the following items to the GIS community:
 
  
 
 -  My completed GIS data model in DXF format that can 
 be used as an example or template for other models.
 
 -  A set of CAD blocks that can be used to build 
 similar diagrams.
 
  
 
 If I like how things come together with the diagrams, I might 
 try converting the diagrams to SVG. The diagrams would be 
 much prettier in SVG, but I am quicker with CAD than I am 
 with Inkscape, and I want to get a prototype completed quickly.
 
  
 
 This will make a lot more sense when you get to see the 
 example diagrams.
 
  
 
 I welcome any collaboration on this effort. If there is 
 interest, I could move this discussion to the Standards 
 mailing list. It would be great to get input from interested 
 parties now, while the diagrams are still taking shape.
 
  
 
 Landon
 
  
 
 
 
 Warning:
 Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed 
 against defects including translation and transmission 
 errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are 
 hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or 
 copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you 
 have received this information in error, please notify the 
 sender immediately.
 
 ___
Discuss mailing list
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have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately.
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