Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout at FOSS4G 2010?
On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 07:59:32 +1100, Cameron Shorter cameron.shor...@gmail.com wrote: Andrea, That looks like an excellent basis to start from. Were the results of the desktop comparison written up somewhere? While a feature comparison is valuable, the end user is also interested is other metrics which are harder to collect. Hi Cameron. Unfortunately we could not collect hard data about this, and frankly I think this would be very difficult to do - a desktop is much more subjective than a server. What is difficult for me can be easy for you, etc. Anyway, I think such a comparison is really necessary. Ideas welcome. All the best. -- http://faunalia.it/pc ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010?
Also keep in mind, unlike windows specific applications many foss4g apps rely on shared libraries like OGR and back end DB's. So the testing is not just of the application but also the libs and DB's. A feature comparison is a good start and many masters projects have already done that as well as xcompare them to closed source desktop apps. Cheers --Original Message-- From: Paolo Cavallini Sender: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org To: OSGeo Discussions ReplyTo: OSGeo Discussions Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010? Sent: Dec 20, 2009 5:15 AM On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 07:59:32 +1100, Cameron Shorter cameron.shor...@gmail.com wrote: Andrea, That looks like an excellent basis to start from. Were the results of the desktop comparison written up somewhere? While a feature comparison is valuable, the end user is also interested is other metrics which are harder to collect. Hi Cameron. Unfortunately we could not collect hard data about this, and frankly I think this would be very difficult to do - a desktop is much more subjective than a server. What is difficult for me can be easy for you, etc. Anyway, I think such a comparison is really necessary. Ideas welcome. All the best. -- http://faunalia.it/pc ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[OSGeo-Discuss] An interesting article about software licensing in the non-open source geospatial world
http://www.thestreet.com/story/10640248/1/tech-rights-give-companies-upper-h and.html -joel -- Joel D. Schlagel US Army Engineer Institute for Water Resources http://www.iwr.usace.army.mil/email: joel.d.schla...@us.army.mil ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010?
sampe...@gmail.com ha scritto: A feature comparison is a good start and many masters projects have already done that as well as xcompare them to closed source desktop apps. Hi. I only have seen a few, rather incomplete, comparisons: do you have links for more? Thanks. All the best. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010?
Interested in a different approach that is lower impact, but still interesting and entertaining? Have developers review a competing project and then present their findings, in the form of What I love about ___, what I hate about. Jody Garnett presents What I love about QGIS, what I hate about QGIS. Jorge Sanz presents What I love about uDig, what I hate about uDig. Tim Sutton presents What I love about gvSIG, what I hate about gvSIG. Not only do you get an unvarnished view, but you can have shorter presentations with a discussion segment at the end of each one. Works for almost any application category too. P On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Cameron Shorter cameron.shor...@gmail.com wrote: A couple of links to reviews of desktop clients at: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Case_Studies#Review_of_Open_Source_Desktop_Clients In particular Stefan's summary of clients is the best I've seen so far. http://www.spatialserver.net/osgis/ is quite comprehensive. The steps I see toward kicking off a Desktop comparison at FOSS4G are: 1. One person to step forward and offer to drive the comparison through to completion. (This can be a couple of people, but it usually starts with one). Effectively act as a project coordinator, setting up wiki pages, contacting potential parties, ensuring scope is capped. Paul Ramsey, Andrea Aime and Jeff McKenna seemed to be the driving people behind the WMS shootout. If you are reading this and think you might be able to fill this role, then please speak up. 2. The key projects need to be contacted, and at least one volunteer identified for each project. Ideally, there will be at least 3/4 of the projects represented. Within a year or two, any potential gis desktop user will start their search for clients by reviewing the results of the Desktop shootout, so projects represented in the shootout will become the dominant projects. (This is why it will be important for projects to get on board) 3. Between the volunteers, and led by the coordinator, a set of benchmark tests should be set up. This will probably include a core set of tests that everyone should do relatively easily, and optional tests that each project can do to show off their application. 4. Lots of hard work setting up environments, and running tests. Hence it is important to start early if we want to have a good showing at foss4g. 5. Just before foss4g: Pens down, collate results, present. Paolo Cavallini wrote: sampe...@gmail.com ha scritto: A feature comparison is a good start and many masters projects have already done that as well as xcompare them to closed source desktop apps. Hi. I only have seen a few, rather incomplete, comparisons: do you have links for more? Thanks. All the best. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Cameron Shorter Geospatial Systems Architect Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050 Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254 Think Globally, Fix Locally Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source http://www.lisasoft.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010?
Cameron Shorter ha scritto: A couple of links to reviews of desktop clients at: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Case_Studies#Review_of_Open_Source_Desktop_Clients In particular Stefan's summary of clients is the best I've seen so far. http://www.spatialserver.net/osgis/ is quite comprehensive. The steps I see toward kicking off a Desktop comparison at FOSS4G are: 1. One person to step forward and offer to drive the comparison through to completion. (This can be a couple of people, but it usually starts with one). Effectively act as a project coordinator, setting up wiki pages, contacting potential parties, ensuring scope is capped. Paul Ramsey, Andrea Aime and Jeff McKenna seemed to be the driving people behind the WMS shootout. If you are reading this and think you might be able to fill this role, then please speak up. ... 5. Just before foss4g: Pens down, collate results, present. I think I can do something for QGIS, if I'm not left alone ;) All the best. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010?
Hei all, thanks for Cameron on keeping me in the loop, and to Markus for remembering :) I am now subscribed to this list. I think Pauls idea sounds interesting - because this whole comparison thing is a) quite cumbersome when we have 10 desktop GIS (+ X), and b) neither really worth because desktop GIS are used for a multitude of tasks, while web map Servers or databases aren't that much - right? So as Paul is quoted on the osgeo wiki: one needs to set up use cases first (just wrote that today in a new article too, which contains a section on selecting free GIS software). And I also discovered that just most of the projects have a different focus during my evaluation. Which of course does not mean that such thing should not be presented - but it must be focussed in some way or the other to have a benefit. And as a side note, I am not sure if measuring processing times makes sense either, as GIS analysis feature sets are so different. However, I am in for testing with OpenJUMP. Two more notes: - my comparison tables are now already 2 years old now (from 2007), i.e. need some update (but the last pub in Ecological Informatics took into account newer developments too, but is superficial and focused towards the average GIS users). - I gave a talk about this at OGRS: http://www.ogrs2009.org/doku.php?id=keynotes pdf can be downloaded from there. cheers from Germany right now (Xmas) stefan PS: I know also of this comparison by T. Hengl et al. on Grass vs. SAGA for Geomorphologic Analysis http://www.igc.usp.br/pessoais/guano/downloads/Hengl_etal_2009_gmorph.pdf Paul Ramsey schrieb: Interested in a different approach that is lower impact, but still interesting and entertaining? Have developers review a competing project and then present their findings, in the form of What I love about ___, what I hate about. Jody Garnett presents What I love about QGIS, what I hate about QGIS. Jorge Sanz presents What I love about uDig, what I hate about uDig. Tim Sutton presents What I love about gvSIG, what I hate about gvSIG. Not only do you get an unvarnished view, but you can have shorter presentations with a discussion segment at the end of each one. Works for almost any application category too. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010?
I think a more interesting presentation would be why there are so many desktop GIS packages, the consequent pros/cons, and if/how efforts could be consolidated. On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Stefan Steiniger sst...@geo.uzh.chwrote: Hei all, thanks for Cameron on keeping me in the loop, and to Markus for remembering :) I am now subscribed to this list. I think Pauls idea sounds interesting - because this whole comparison thing is a) quite cumbersome when we have 10 desktop GIS (+ X), and b) neither really worth because desktop GIS are used for a multitude of tasks, while web map Servers or databases aren't that much - right? So as Paul is quoted on the osgeo wiki: one needs to set up use cases first (just wrote that today in a new article too, which contains a section on selecting free GIS software). And I also discovered that just most of the projects have a different focus during my evaluation. Which of course does not mean that such thing should not be presented - but it must be focussed in some way or the other to have a benefit. And as a side note, I am not sure if measuring processing times makes sense either, as GIS analysis feature sets are so different. However, I am in for testing with OpenJUMP. Two more notes: - my comparison tables are now already 2 years old now (from 2007), i.e. need some update (but the last pub in Ecological Informatics took into account newer developments too, but is superficial and focused towards the average GIS users). - I gave a talk about this at OGRS: http://www.ogrs2009.org/doku.php?id=keynotes pdf can be downloaded from there. cheers from Germany right now (Xmas) stefan PS: I know also of this comparison by T. Hengl et al. on Grass vs. SAGA for Geomorphologic Analysis http://www.igc.usp.br/pessoais/guano/downloads/Hengl_etal_2009_gmorph.pdf Paul Ramsey schrieb: Interested in a different approach that is lower impact, but still interesting and entertaining? Have developers review a competing project and then present their findings, in the form of What I love about ___, what I hate about. Jody Garnett presents What I love about QGIS, what I hate about QGIS. Jorge Sanz presents What I love about uDig, what I hate about uDig. Tim Sutton presents What I love about gvSIG, what I hate about gvSIG. Not only do you get an unvarnished view, but you can have shorter presentations with a discussion segment at the end of each one. Works for almost any application category too. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010?
mhm.. I like that idea (and also have some answers - that I got from the iGeoDesktop Crew and OrbisGIS, two pretty new Desktop GIS). but here the question: is it as valuable for the end user? or rather our thing. Brian Russo schrieb: I think a more interesting presentation would be why there are so many desktop GIS packages, the consequent pros/cons, and if/how efforts could be consolidated. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010?
I'll do that talk, if there's really interest in it, but it has nothing to do with technology or desktops, it's sociology and psychology. And no, efforts cannot be consolidated (active intervention) they may consolidate (natural progression). P. - Why? Because, we felt like it, and we knew better. - Pros and cons? Weighted in favor of the On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Brian Russo br...@beruna.org wrote: I think a more interesting presentation would be why there are so many desktop GIS packages, the consequent pros/cons, and if/how efforts could be consolidated. On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Stefan Steiniger sst...@geo.uzh.ch wrote: Hei all, thanks for Cameron on keeping me in the loop, and to Markus for remembering :) I am now subscribed to this list. I think Pauls idea sounds interesting - because this whole comparison thing is a) quite cumbersome when we have 10 desktop GIS (+ X), and b) neither really worth because desktop GIS are used for a multitude of tasks, while web map Servers or databases aren't that much - right? So as Paul is quoted on the osgeo wiki: one needs to set up use cases first (just wrote that today in a new article too, which contains a section on selecting free GIS software). And I also discovered that just most of the projects have a different focus during my evaluation. Which of course does not mean that such thing should not be presented - but it must be focussed in some way or the other to have a benefit. And as a side note, I am not sure if measuring processing times makes sense either, as GIS analysis feature sets are so different. However, I am in for testing with OpenJUMP. Two more notes: - my comparison tables are now already 2 years old now (from 2007), i.e. need some update (but the last pub in Ecological Informatics took into account newer developments too, but is superficial and focused towards the average GIS users). - I gave a talk about this at OGRS: http://www.ogrs2009.org/doku.php?id=keynotes pdf can be downloaded from there. cheers from Germany right now (Xmas) stefan PS: I know also of this comparison by T. Hengl et al. on Grass vs. SAGA for Geomorphologic Analysis http://www.igc.usp.br/pessoais/guano/downloads/Hengl_etal_2009_gmorph.pdf Paul Ramsey schrieb: Interested in a different approach that is lower impact, but still interesting and entertaining? Have developers review a competing project and then present their findings, in the form of What I love about ___, what I hate about. Jody Garnett presents What I love about QGIS, what I hate about QGIS. Jorge Sanz presents What I love about uDig, what I hate about uDig. Tim Sutton presents What I love about gvSIG, what I hate about gvSIG. Not only do you get an unvarnished view, but you can have shorter presentations with a discussion segment at the end of each one. Works for almost any application category too. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010?
You're absolutely right, pretend I said collaborate instead of consolidate. On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Paul Ramsey pram...@cleverelephant.cawrote: I'll do that talk, if there's really interest in it, but it has nothing to do with technology or desktops, it's sociology and psychology. And no, efforts cannot be consolidated (active intervention) they may consolidate (natural progression). P. - Why? Because, we felt like it, and we knew better. - Pros and cons? Weighted in favor of the On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Brian Russo br...@beruna.org wrote: I think a more interesting presentation would be why there are so many desktop GIS packages, the consequent pros/cons, and if/how efforts could be consolidated. On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Stefan Steiniger sst...@geo.uzh.ch wrote: Hei all, thanks for Cameron on keeping me in the loop, and to Markus for remembering :) I am now subscribed to this list. I think Pauls idea sounds interesting - because this whole comparison thing is a) quite cumbersome when we have 10 desktop GIS (+ X), and b) neither really worth because desktop GIS are used for a multitude of tasks, while web map Servers or databases aren't that much - right? So as Paul is quoted on the osgeo wiki: one needs to set up use cases first (just wrote that today in a new article too, which contains a section on selecting free GIS software). And I also discovered that just most of the projects have a different focus during my evaluation. Which of course does not mean that such thing should not be presented - but it must be focussed in some way or the other to have a benefit. And as a side note, I am not sure if measuring processing times makes sense either, as GIS analysis feature sets are so different. However, I am in for testing with OpenJUMP. Two more notes: - my comparison tables are now already 2 years old now (from 2007), i.e. need some update (but the last pub in Ecological Informatics took into account newer developments too, but is superficial and focused towards the average GIS users). - I gave a talk about this at OGRS: http://www.ogrs2009.org/doku.php?id=keynotes pdf can be downloaded from there. cheers from Germany right now (Xmas) stefan PS: I know also of this comparison by T. Hengl et al. on Grass vs. SAGA for Geomorphologic Analysis http://www.igc.usp.br/pessoais/guano/downloads/Hengl_etal_2009_gmorph.pdf Paul Ramsey schrieb: Interested in a different approach that is lower impact, but still interesting and entertaining? Have developers review a competing project and then present their findings, in the form of What I love about ___, what I hate about. Jody Garnett presents What I love about QGIS, what I hate about QGIS. Jorge Sanz presents What I love about uDig, what I hate about uDig. Tim Sutton presents What I love about gvSIG, what I hate about gvSIG. Not only do you get an unvarnished view, but you can have shorter presentations with a discussion segment at the end of each one. Works for almost any application category too. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010?
When I started organising the Italian Desktop comparison, I tried to involve both the community of developers and users. Regarding developers, you might remember an email asking the QGis and gvSig for a first meeting in Sydney to which I got no answer. So nothing happened from that side. Also as much as I find the idea of people getting users of different GIS cool, I think that might end in being too much efforth people would like to put in. Also note that all of the presenters came with the latest versions of their software, straight out of the svn or even not yet in svn :) So probably they all will want to show the latest thing they have on. Regarding the user community, I got a couple of requests, but they were more on what the GIS can do and not benchmarking or so. Most of the people that contacted me were from public administrations that had to think about migrating, so they would have loved to find a GIS that could fullfill all their ArcView requirements. It came up to things like: can I print A0?, can I do a table join? Andrea On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Stefan Steiniger sst...@geo.uzh.ch wrote: mhm.. I like that idea (and also have some answers - that I got from the iGeoDesktop Crew and OrbisGIS, two pretty new Desktop GIS). but here the question: is it as valuable for the end user? or rather our thing. Brian Russo schrieb: I think a more interesting presentation would be why there are so many desktop GIS packages, the consequent pros/cons, and if/how efforts could be consolidated. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010?
I agree with Stefan. I have found comparison tables of little use as the compiler has to summarize what is probably quite complex routines. They rarely give a potential user like myself the complete picture. My view has been that the only way to evaluate the usefulness of a program is to use it on actual data trying to do actual things. I have tried multiple OS GIS packages and they all do different things in different ways. Some useful some novel (to me). What really counts is if you can use one program to complete your normal workflow without needing to use other packages. I am not saying that someone should not use multiple packages during their normal work week only that you should be able to do your normal work without having to transfer data (and half the time actually convert data) between various packages to get what you need done. So from my point of view projects should not look at other projects, developers should not list functionality of their program or any other combination. Users should provide standard workflow tasks -- repetitive tasks sequences they complete regularly. Then be asked to complete those tasks on each of the programs being tested. Then the users rate ease of setup, ease of use, suitability of output, support, etc. The actual list of user experience ratings can be knocked up by an overview committee. This committee could also vet the users who put their hand up to ensure a good spectrum of users and tasks, from different sections of society (academic, commercial, newbie) are all represented and no bias exists. If developers think this might be too harsh (as users may not fully understand what is going on or how the program works), maybe a middle ground would be that the developers submit a solution to these workflow processes. The users follow these instructions and evaluate the outcome. This avoids users baulking at some quite eccentric GUI interfaces or program setup (solution must provide clear setup instructions for Windows and Linux). These solutions are tried and reviewed by the user. The workflows, results, comments and developer solutions can be collated onto one site (the OSGeo site seems appropriate) as a valuable resource for developers and user alike. Cheers Simon Simon Cropper Botanicus Australia Pty Ltd PO Box 160, Sunshine, Victoria 3020. P: 9311 5822. M: 041 830 3437. mailto: scrop...@botanicusaustralia.com.au web: www.botanicusaustralia.com.au Stefan Steiniger wrote: Hei all, thanks for Cameron on keeping me in the loop, and to Markus for remembering :) I am now subscribed to this list. I think Pauls idea sounds interesting - because this whole comparison thing is a) quite cumbersome when we have 10 desktop GIS (+ X), and b) neither really worth because desktop GIS are used for a multitude of tasks, while web map Servers or databases aren't that much - right? So as Paul is quoted on the osgeo wiki: one needs to set up use cases first (just wrote that today in a new article too, which contains a section on selecting free GIS software). And I also discovered that just most of the projects have a different focus during my evaluation. Which of course does not mean that such thing should not be presented - but it must be focussed in some way or the other to have a benefit. And as a side note, I am not sure if measuring processing times makes sense either, as GIS analysis feature sets are so different. However, I am in for testing with OpenJUMP. Two more notes: - my comparison tables are now already 2 years old now (from 2007), i.e. need some update (but the last pub in Ecological Informatics took into account newer developments too, but is superficial and focused towards the "average" GIS users). - I gave a talk about this at OGRS: http://www.ogrs2009.org/doku.php?id=keynotes pdf can be downloaded from there. cheers from Germany right now (Xmas) stefan PS: I know also of this comparison by T. Hengl et al. on Grass vs. SAGA for Geomorphologic Analysis http://www.igc.usp.br/pessoais/guano/downloads/Hengl_etal_2009_gmorph.pdf Paul Ramsey schrieb: Interested in a different approach that is lower impact, but still interesting and entertaining? Have developers review a "competing" project and then present their findings, in the form of "What I love about ___, what I hate about". Jody Garnett presents "What I love about QGIS, what I hate about QGIS." Jorge Sanz presents "What I love about uDig, what I hate about uDig." Tim Sutton presents "What I love about gvSIG, what I hate about gvSIG." Not only do you get an unvarnished view, but you can have shorter presentations with a discussion segment at the end of each one. Works for almost any application category too. ___ Discuss mailing list
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010?
Simon, I agree 99% with you, but why you left Mac out of the tests. AFAICT Grass, Qgis, Udig, OpenJump, OrbisGis, geoserver, mapserver and somehow gvSIG work on Mac. Agustin !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN html head meta content=text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type title/title /head body bgcolor=#ff text=#00 I agree with Stefan.br br I have found comparison tables of little use as the compiler has to summarize what is probably quite complex routines. They rarely give a potential user like myself the complete picture.br br My view has been that the only way to evaluate the usefulness of a program is to use it on actual data trying to do actual things.br br I have tried multiple OS GIS packages and they all do different things in different ways. Some useful some novel (to me).br br What really counts is if you can use one program to complete your normal workflow without needing to use other packages.br br I am not saying that someone should not use multiple packages during their normal work week only that you should be able to do your normal work without having to transfer data (and half the time actually convert data) between various packages to get what you need done.br br So from my point of view projects should not look at other projects, developers should not list functionality of their program or any other combination. Users should provide standard workflow tasks -- repetitive tasks sequences they complete regularly. Then be asked to complete those tasks on each of the programs being tested. Then the users rate ease of setup, ease of use, suitability of output, support, etc. The actual list of user experience ratings can be knocked up by an overview committee. This committee could also vet the users who put their hand up to ensure a good spectrum of users and tasks, from different sections of society (academic, commercial, newbie) are all represented and no bias exists.br br If developers think this might be too harsh (as users may not fully understand what is going on or how the program works), maybe a middle ground would be that the developers submit a solution to these workflow processes. The users follow these instructions and evaluate the outcome. This avoids users baulking at some quite eccentric GUI interfaces or program setup (solution must provide clear setup instructions for Windows and Linux). These solutions are tried and reviewed by the user. The workflows, results, comments and developer solutions can be collated onto one site (the OSGeo site seems appropriate) as a valuable resource for developers and user alike.br div class=moz-signature pCheers Simon/p p style=margin-left: 36pt; Simon Cropper br Botanicus Australia Pty Ltdbr PO Box 160, Sunshine, Victoria 3020.br P: 9311 5822. M: 041 830 3437.br a href=mailto:scrop...@botanicusaustralia.com.au;mailto: scrop...@botanicusaustralia.com.au/a br a href=http://www.botanicusaustralia.com.au;web: www.botanicusaustralia.com.au/a br /p /div br br Stefan Steiniger wrote: blockquote cite=mid:4b2e96f3.9090...@geo.uzh.ch type=citeHei all, br br thanks for Cameron on keeping me in the loop, and to Markus for br remembering :) I am now subscribed to this list. br br I think Pauls idea sounds interesting - because this whole comparison br thing is br a) quite cumbersome when we have 10 desktop GIS (+ X), and br b) neither really worth because desktop GIS are used for a multitude of br tasks, while web map Servers or databases aren't that much - right? br br So as Paul is quoted on the osgeo wiki: one needs to set up use cases br first (just wrote that today in a new article too, which contains a br section on selecting free GIS software). And I also discovered that just br most of the projects have a different focus during my evaluation. Which br of course does not mean that such thing should not be presented - but it br must be focussed in some way or the other to have a benefit. And as a br side note, I am not sure if measuring processing times makes sense br either, as GIS analysis feature sets are so different. br br However, I am in for testing with OpenJUMP. br br Two more notes: br - my comparison tables are now already 2 years old now (from 2007), i.e. br need some update (but the last pub in Ecological Informatics took into br account newer developments too, but is superficial and focused towards br the average GIS users). br - I gave a talk about this at OGRS: br a class=moz-txt-link-freetext href=http://www.ogrs2009.org/doku.php?id=keynotes;http://www.ogrs2009org/doku.php?id=keynotes/a br pdf can be downloaded from there. br br cheers from Germany right now (Xmas) br stefan br br PS: I know also of this comparison by T. Hengl et al. on Grass vs. SAGA br for Geomorphologic Analysis
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010?
Title: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010? Maxim, I looked at the webpage but could not find an outcome -- which system worked the best? Cheers Simon Simon Cropper Botanicus Australia Pty Ltd PO Box 160, Sunshine, Victoria 3020. P: 9311 5822. M: 041 830 3437. mailto: scrop...@botanicusaustralia.com.au web: www.botanicusaustralia.com.au Maxim Dubinin wrote: Sometime ago, we were also interested in why are there so many desktop open GIS packages. So what we did was the following, we created a model project with several groups of different type layers and recreated it with 10+ packages, opensource, proprietory, even some web-based ones. It is was quite interesting exercise, where a dozen of people participated and it was pretty clear in the end where opensource GIS are in comparison with proprietory and in between themselves. Of course this only covers simple project building and does not compare analysis etc. Moreover, the initial goal of this dataset was not comparison, but easy start with any common desktop GIS package + assistance to devs and education purposes, some ability to conclude which one was better was sort of a side-effect. You can check the results here, (originally in Russian): http://translate.google.com/translate?js=yprev=_thl=enie=UTF-8layout=1eotf=1u=http%3A%2F%2Fgis-lab.info%2Fqa%2Fgeosample.htmlsl=rutl=en Maxim ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] An interesting article about software licensing in the non-open source geospatial world
Frank Frank Warmerdam wrote: ... Building on software distributed under well understood and relatively unrestrictive open source licenses can help a great deal. Could you let me know what would the relatively unrestrictive open source licenses be. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010?
Title: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010? Simon, I was merely suggesting an approach. As I said, we didn't have a goal to inform other what Desktop GIS is the best, we just wanted to present a model dataset for many different packages, so that a person can try and choose by himself. However, there are some notes for each package at the bottom of the page. Personally, I have a favorite, of course, but I don't think this is appropriate to describe it here. That said, I think this will be relatively easy to construct a matrix based on our experience with missing bits for this particular task. We're currently going through updating software and this project and will discuss this among participants. Maxim 20 2009 ., 16:52:06: Maxim, I looked at the webpage but could not find an outcome -- which system worked the best? Cheers Simon Simon Cropper Botanicus Australia Pty Ltd PO Box 160, Sunshine, Victoria 3020. P: 9311 5822. M: 041 830 3437. mailto: scrop...@botanicusaustralia.com.au web: www.botanicusaustralia.com.au Maxim Dubinin wrote: Sometime ago, we were also interested in why are there so many desktop open GIS packages. So what we did was the following, we created a model project with several groups of different type layers and recreated it with 10+ packages, opensource, proprietory, even some web-based ones. It is was quite interesting exercise, where a dozen of people participated and it was pretty clear in the end where opensource GIS are in comparison with proprietory and in between themselves. Of course this only covers simple project building and does not compare analysis etc. Moreover, the initial goal of this dataset was not comparison, but easy start with any common desktop GIS package + assistance to devs and education purposes, some ability to conclude which one was better was sort of a side-effect. You can check the results here, (originally in Russian): http://translate.google.com/translate?js=yprev=_thl=enie=UTF-8layout=1eotf=1u=http%3A%2F%2Fgis-lab.info%2Fqa%2Fgeosample.htmlsl=rutl=en Maxim ___ Discuss mailing listDiscuss@lists.osgeo.orghttp://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
