Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGEO4W future
Done, thanks. Glad to see things are moving. I think before tackling the tech issues, we have a problem with governance here: once we have a PSC, we can go on deciding the way to go. Before that, we risk having discussions, duplications, and few packages. Glad to see we have a good response now. Thanks Frank. All the best. On 2013-09-21 04:20, Frank Warmerdam wrote: Paolo, As you know I am in support of establishing a PSC for the OSGeo4W project, and would be pleased to participate. I would encourage you to email osgeo4w-dev and lets get this under way. (unable to sleep at 3am in Notthingham) Best regards, Frank On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Paolo Cavallini wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi all. OSGEO4W is a crucial piece of our infrastructure, and is one of the main services we are giving for the spread of GFOSS. I think it does not get the attention it deserves. The active developer team is very small, many packages are obsolete, and their update is far from regular. Im not blaming everybody, I sincerely thank those who contribute; I just try to be objective. I think we should move forward quickly. I suggest to make a Steering Committee for OSGEO4W, so to have a clear roadmap, and give Windows (urgh!) users a predictable environment. I think some of our million users would be happy to support this effort, if they would know they contribute actively to something they need. My previous efforts to raise this question and to improve the situation have met with no success. I think time is now ripe to act. Im available to help. All the best, and thanks. - -- Paolo Cavallini - Faunalia www.faunalia.eu [1] Full contact details at www.faunalia.eu/pc [2] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ [3] iEYEARECAAYFAlI8kA0ACgkQ/NedwLUzIr6nYACfVOGRkOEVUCQH0dCO8ku9a5l6 7cUAnRR7nGRLcHZ1BnOlY9YHgy5orWeG =tOOt -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org [4] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss [5] -- ---+-- I set the clouds in motion - turn up | Frank Warmerdam, warmer...@pobox.com [7] light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam [8] and watch the world go round - Rush | Geospatial Software Developer Links: -- [1] http://www.faunalia.eu [2] http://www.faunalia.eu/pc [3] http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ [4] mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org [5] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss [6] mailto:cavall...@faunalia.it [7] mailto:warmer...@pobox.com [8] http://pobox.com/~warmerdam -- Paolo Cavallini - Faunalia www.faunalia.eu Full contact details at www.faunalia.eu/pc Nuovi corsi QGIS e PostGIS: http://www.faunalia.it/calendario ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] RE : Re: OSGEO4W future
> If you can come up with a way to do it on Windows I think many people > are listening. The nature of Windows and Visual Studio tends to be what > gets in the way of a more package management style system or build > environment that's easy to replicate. I see no reason there can't be a > shortcut in osgeo4w to setup source tree/libs for devs. > ... > Unlike OSGeoLive we can't supply VMs as that takes paid licenses for the > software in question. > I am no expert on Windows build tools but... If the goal is a *build script* to allow just pulling a new version from a repository and building dlls or exes, then it is possible to script builds using the compilers supplied with Visual Studio. Visual Studio supplies a shell with the appropriate environment variables and such set up. I've used cmake scripts that referenced Visual Studio (and had to hack cmake scripts that used obsolete VS build commands and obsolete VS versions). One does not need the full Visual Studio just for the compilers and build tools -- those are available with some of the free Visual Studio Express packages. http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/eng/products/visual-studio-express-products There are other compilers and build toolchains available for Windows -- e.g. MinGW -- but it seems (again, I'm not a Windows build expert...) one must use the same compiler / linker throughout, so it would likely be appropriate to pick one, and likely whichever is currently being used to build OSGEO4W executables. On the other hand, if the goal is a *development environment* that allows people to work on the code, and debug and test, then one might want an IDE. (I have not yet tried out Visual Studio Express as an IDE. I use both Eclipse and Netbeans on Windows, but have not tried building native Windows executables or libraries with them. I use them mainly for Java and Python). Does anyone have experience using Eclipse, Netbeans, or another FOSS IDE to build native Windows binaries? Do you use the Visual Studio (Express) compilers for that, or MinGW, or...? The issue with providing a VM image with a preconfigured development environment doesn't seem to hinge on whether the full, licensed, non-free Visual Studio could be included, but rather the fact that one would need a license for the guest Windows OS itself. If the developer or builder is running directly on Windows, then it's somewhat moot, so I'm guessing the VM suggestion is more for cross-compiling, or ease of installation...? -- Pat ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] RE : Re: OSGEO4W future
On 2013-09-21 03:01, Alex Mandel wrote: We can't give out Windows Virtual Machine(VM) images with Visual Studio I think standalone binaries are really the only way to go for the average Win user. Thanks for your thoughts. -- Paolo Cavallini - Faunalia www.faunalia.eu Full contact details at www.faunalia.eu/pc Nuovi corsi QGIS e PostGIS: http://www.faunalia.it/calendario ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGEO4W future
Paolo, As you know I am in support of establishing a PSC for the OSGeo4W project, and would be pleased to participate. I would encourage you to email osgeo4w-dev and lets get this under way. (unable to sleep at 3am in Notthingham) Best regards, Frank On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Paolo Cavallini wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi all. > OSGEO4W is a crucial piece of our infrastructure, and is one of the > main services we are giving for the spread of GFOSS. > I think it does not get the attention it deserves. The active > developer team is very small, many packages are obsolete, and their > update is far from regular. I'm not blaming everybody, I sincerely > thank those who contribute; I just try to be objective. I think we > should move forward quickly. I suggest to make a Steering Committee > for OSGEO4W, so to have a clear roadmap, and give Windows (urgh!) > users a predictable environment. I think some of our million users > would be happy to support this effort, if they would know they > contribute actively to something they need. > My previous efforts to raise this question and to improve the > situation have met with no success. I think time is now ripe to act. > I'm available to help. > All the best, and thanks. > - -- > Paolo Cavallini - Faunalia > www.faunalia.eu > Full contact details at www.faunalia.eu/pc > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ > > iEYEARECAAYFAlI8kA0ACgkQ/NedwLUzIr6nYACfVOGRkOEVUCQH0dCO8ku9a5l6 > 7cUAnRR7nGRLcHZ1BnOlY9YHgy5orWeG > =tOOt > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > ___ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@lists.osgeo.org > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > -- ---+-- I set the clouds in motion - turn up | Frank Warmerdam, warmer...@pobox.com light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam and watch the world go round - Rush| Geospatial Software Developer ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] RE : Re: OSGEO4W future
On 09/20/2013 05:33 PM, Dave Patton wrote: > On 2013/09/20 16:39, Alex Mandel wrote: > >> Unlike OSGeoLive we can't supply VMs as that takes paid licenses for >> the software in question. > > Alex - could you please clarify what you mean by this statement. > > Thanks > We can't give out Windows Virtual Machine(VM) images with Visual Studio already installed. The Licensing terms of Windows and Visual studio don't allow for that, even if the end user has a valid license its probably not legal. The only exception might be if we make a Windows Azure image that can be cloned on that platform, since I believe paying for an Azure instance automatically gives you the Windows License. Which is different from Ubuntu (what we build OSGeoLive on top of), free and open source software that is gratis too. We can build derivates all we want and hand them out. Were you thinking I meant something else? What we can do is create an installer or scripts that makes it easier to deploy a build environment on top of an already installed Windows, I defer this back to being a subcomponent of osgeo4w. Thanks, Alex ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Software Freedom Day - Today Saturday September 21, 2013
On 21 September 2013 00:58, Daniel Morissette wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I just found out that Today Saturday September 21, 2013 is Software Freedom > Day around the world. > > More info at http://www.softwarefreedomday.org/ Have a pint or three over there in Nottingham :) (_)? (_)? (_)? Best regards, -- Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net "Participation in this whole process is a form of torture" ~~ Szalony ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] RE : Re: OSGEO4W future
On 2013/09/20 16:39, Alex Mandel wrote: Unlike OSGeoLive we can't supply VMs as that takes paid licenses for the software in question. Alex - could you please clarify what you mean by this statement. Thanks -- Dave Patton Victoria, B.C. Degree Confluence Project: Canadian Coordinator Technical Coordinator http://www.confluence.org/ Personal website: http://members.shaw.ca/davepatton/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[OSGeo-Discuss] Software Freedom Day - Today Saturday September 21, 2013
Hi Everyone, I just found out that Today Saturday September 21, 2013 is Software Freedom Day around the world. More info at http://www.softwarefreedomday.org/ Nice timing with our closing day at FOSS4G. BTW, their events map even uses OSM, OpenLayers, and Mapnik. -- Daniel Morissette http://www.mapgears.com/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] RE : Re: OSGEO4W future
If you can come up with a way to do it on Windows I think many people are listening. The nature of Windows and Visual Studio tends to be what gets in the way of a more package management style system or build environment that's easy to replicate. I see no reason there can't be a shortcut in osgeo4w to setup source tree/libs for devs. I'll note most end users have no idea what we're even talking about so providing the binaries is still critically important. Unlike OSGeoLive we can't supply VMs as that takes paid licenses for the software in question. Thanks, Alex On 09/20/2013 04:18 PM, Gérald Fenoy wrote: > Dear all, > Despite I agree with you that providing the OSGeo softwares in a binary > distribution is a good idea, what do you think of providing something, which > may be IMO even better to the end users / developpers, let's call it a build > kit or a build environment already correctly setup for integration of new > versions of software or even the integration of this or that new software. I > really think that it make lot of sense to provide such a thing. > > This way, any new projects become able to provide a windows version (x64 or > i386, I'm not sure we should provide only x64 versions even it will be the > most used, but this is another question) of their software without having to > do all the work on their own as so many of us did /do already. > > Let suppose that you find a bug in this or that software but you get a patch > provided by the OSGeo community (whatever is the project name!), then this > patch can be easilly applied on the current build environment and user / devs > are able to try the result directly. > > Nevertheless, I understand that it is huge work, but cannot we plan to get > thz work done in a similar manner than the OSGeoLiveDVD was built. Let say by > asking for volonteers to handle a specific project. > > It was something I spoke about here and there (conferences mainly) as a key > missing thing, so I thought that as you put this discussion on table it was > perfect timming to share my thoughts on this. > > Waiting for your input and comments. > > If this sounds totally irrealisitic please let me say that it is not. > > Best regards. > > Gėrald Fenoy > http://www.osgeo.org > > > > Message d'origine > De : Alex Mandel > Date : 20/09/2013 22:52 (GMT+00:00) > A : Tamas Szekeres ,Paolo Cavallini > > Cc : OSGeo Discussions ,OSGeo-Board > > Objet : Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGEO4W future > > On 09/20/2013 02:45 PM, Tamas Szekeres wrote: >> 2013/9/20 Paolo Cavallini >> >>> I suggest to make a Steering Committee >>> for OSGEO4W, so to have a clear roadmap, and give Windows (urgh!) >>> users a predictable environment. I think some of our million users >>> would be happy to support this effort, if they would know they >>> contribute actively to something they need. >>> >> >> >> Hi Paolo, >> >> I agree with you entrirely, as we've already been talking about this today. >> Being committed to provide usable binaries on Windows, you can count me in. >> Setting up a build environment (probably a version of a Windows Server x64 >> edition with MSVC2010 for instance) providing to compile all the stuff at >> the same place would be a prerequisite. >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Tamas >> > > I'm actually already providing such an instance and was planning to > clone it to several instances as well as a testing instance. > Frank has the keys to drive it and has been using it for several months > already. > > It's part of my lab's participation in the ICA-OSGeo initiative. > http://geospatial.ucdavis.edu/resources/open-source > > Thanks, > Alex > ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[OSGeo-Discuss] RE : Re: OSGEO4W future
Dear all, Despite I agree with you that providing the OSGeo softwares in a binary distribution is a good idea, what do you think of providing something, which may be IMO even better to the end users / developpers, let's call it a build kit or a build environment already correctly setup for integration of new versions of software or even the integration of this or that new software. I really think that it make lot of sense to provide such a thing. This way, any new projects become able to provide a windows version (x64 or i386, I'm not sure we should provide only x64 versions even it will be the most used, but this is another question) of their software without having to do all the work on their own as so many of us did /do already. Let suppose that you find a bug in this or that software but you get a patch provided by the OSGeo community (whatever is the project name!), then this patch can be easilly applied on the current build environment and user / devs are able to try the result directly. Nevertheless, I understand that it is huge work, but cannot we plan to get thz work done in a similar manner than the OSGeoLiveDVD was built. Let say by asking for volonteers to handle a specific project. It was something I spoke about here and there (conferences mainly) as a key missing thing, so I thought that as you put this discussion on table it was perfect timming to share my thoughts on this. Waiting for your input and comments. If this sounds totally irrealisitic please let me say that it is not. Best regards. Gėrald Fenoy http://www.osgeo.org Message d'origine De : Alex Mandel Date : 20/09/2013 22:52 (GMT+00:00) A : Tamas Szekeres ,Paolo Cavallini Cc : OSGeo Discussions ,OSGeo-Board Objet : Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGEO4W future On 09/20/2013 02:45 PM, Tamas Szekeres wrote: > 2013/9/20 Paolo Cavallini > >> I suggest to make a Steering Committee >> for OSGEO4W, so to have a clear roadmap, and give Windows (urgh!) >> users a predictable environment. I think some of our million users >> would be happy to support this effort, if they would know they >> contribute actively to something they need. >> > > > Hi Paolo, > > I agree with you entrirely, as we've already been talking about this today. > Being committed to provide usable binaries on Windows, you can count me in. > Setting up a build environment (probably a version of a Windows Server x64 > edition with MSVC2010 for instance) providing to compile all the stuff at > the same place would be a prerequisite. > > > Best regards, > > Tamas > I'm actually already providing such an instance and was planning to clone it to several instances as well as a testing instance. Frank has the keys to drive it and has been using it for several months already. It's part of my lab's participation in the ICA-OSGeo initiative. http://geospatial.ucdavis.edu/resources/open-source Thanks, Alex ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGEO4W future
On 09/20/2013 02:45 PM, Tamas Szekeres wrote: > 2013/9/20 Paolo Cavallini > >> I suggest to make a Steering Committee >> for OSGEO4W, so to have a clear roadmap, and give Windows (urgh!) >> users a predictable environment. I think some of our million users >> would be happy to support this effort, if they would know they >> contribute actively to something they need. >> > > > Hi Paolo, > > I agree with you entrirely, as we've already been talking about this today. > Being committed to provide usable binaries on Windows, you can count me in. > Setting up a build environment (probably a version of a Windows Server x64 > edition with MSVC2010 for instance) providing to compile all the stuff at > the same place would be a prerequisite. > > > Best regards, > > Tamas > I'm actually already providing such an instance and was planning to clone it to several instances as well as a testing instance. Frank has the keys to drive it and has been using it for several months already. It's part of my lab's participation in the ICA-OSGeo initiative. http://geospatial.ucdavis.edu/resources/open-source Thanks, Alex ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGEO4W future
2013/9/20 Paolo Cavallini > I suggest to make a Steering Committee > for OSGEO4W, so to have a clear roadmap, and give Windows (urgh!) > users a predictable environment. I think some of our million users > would be happy to support this effort, if they would know they > contribute actively to something they need. > Hi Paolo, I agree with you entrirely, as we've already been talking about this today. Being committed to provide usable binaries on Windows, you can count me in. Setting up a build environment (probably a version of a Windows Server x64 edition with MSVC2010 for instance) providing to compile all the stuff at the same place would be a prerequisite. Best regards, Tamas ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[OSGeo-Discuss] OSGEO4W future
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi all. OSGEO4W is a crucial piece of our infrastructure, and is one of the main services we are giving for the spread of GFOSS. I think it does not get the attention it deserves. The active developer team is very small, many packages are obsolete, and their update is far from regular. I'm not blaming everybody, I sincerely thank those who contribute; I just try to be objective. I think we should move forward quickly. I suggest to make a Steering Committee for OSGEO4W, so to have a clear roadmap, and give Windows (urgh!) users a predictable environment. I think some of our million users would be happy to support this effort, if they would know they contribute actively to something they need. My previous efforts to raise this question and to improve the situation have met with no success. I think time is now ripe to act. I'm available to help. All the best, and thanks. - -- Paolo Cavallini - Faunalia www.faunalia.eu Full contact details at www.faunalia.eu/pc -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAlI8kA0ACgkQ/NedwLUzIr6nYACfVOGRkOEVUCQH0dCO8ku9a5l6 7cUAnRR7nGRLcHZ1BnOlY9YHgy5orWeG =tOOt -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGEO4W future
Some of us use OSGEO4W just because we have to, Windows is still, by far, the most widely used OS in the world. I think it's a great idea to give it some more attention, especially to the new experimental 64-bit version. I would be glad to contribute in any manner possible, but I need to learn how to contribute. I'm not a software guru, I've been using Linux (Mandriva, Fedora, Debian-based and Arch) for a long time but never learned more than average user. Under Windows, maybe a little more advanced. It could be useful to contact OSGEO4W team and find out what kind of help they can use. 2013/9/20 Paolo Cavallini > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi all. > OSGEO4W is a crucial piece of our infrastructure, and is one of the > main services we are giving for the spread of GFOSS. > I think it does not get the attention it deserves. The active > developer team is very small, many packages are obsolete, and their > update is far from regular. I'm not blaming everybody, I sincerely > thank those who contribute; I just try to be objective. I think we > should move forward quickly. I suggest to make a Steering Committee > for OSGEO4W, so to have a clear roadmap, and give Windows (urgh!) > users a predictable environment. I think some of our million users > would be happy to support this effort, if they would know they > contribute actively to something they need. > My previous efforts to raise this question and to improve the > situation have met with no success. I think time is now ripe to act. > I'm available to help. > All the best, and thanks. > - -- > Paolo Cavallini - Faunalia > www.faunalia.eu > Full contact details at www.faunalia.eu/pc > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ > > iEYEARECAAYFAlI8kA0ACgkQ/NedwLUzIr6nYACfVOGRkOEVUCQH0dCO8ku9a5l6 > 7cUAnRR7nGRLcHZ1BnOlY9YHgy5orWeG > =tOOt > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > ___ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@lists.osgeo.org > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > -- Saludos, Yasser ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
