Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Detect and define the coordinate system of gis data with no projection information automatically

[manf...@egger-gis.at]

Are there other members of this discussion list who want to talk about the 
special topic described in Aarons mail (look below)?

If there are more than two it would make sense to start a separate group. 

Best regards,

Manfred

-Original Message-
From: "Aaron Racicot" 
Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 2:20pm
To: "Even Rouault" 
Cc: discuss@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Detect and define the coordinate system of gis 
data with no projection information automatically

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discussYes... this conversation has 
kind of morphed.

The projfinder.com idea started as a side project in collaboration with the
cugos.org group.  The idea is simple...

Given a dataset with an unknown projection:

1) Have the end user give a "rough estimate" of the geo-location of the
dataset by centering a map on that location
2) Have the user give one X,Y pair of coordinates from the dataset

From this information we can try to "guess" the projection of the data.  I
presented this idea at FOSS4G NA 2013 and the slides are located here:

http://media.reprojected.com/presentations/Presentations/foss4g-na-2013/projfinder.pdf

Manfred has taken this concept and created a desktop tool with a similar
goal... help people determine the projection of existing data using some
spatial context given by the user.

It is true that this idea requires a spatial database of projections (and
bounding boxes of projection validity).

The test server that this old (circa 2013) projfinder service is running on
is small and not meant to be a production system.  It is based on EPSG data
loaded into postgis to do the processing.

For clarity it seems to me we have multiple conversations going (and
probably can migrate them someplace other than the general OSGeo Discuss
list):

1) Discussion of open and authoritative projection databases
2) Discussion of services built around these databases
3) A more narrow conversation on the validity of a service like
projfinder.com and its future (where it is served, etc).

Anyway, I have not really chimed in as I am not so involved in #1 and #2...
but if people want to take a conversation about #3 elsewhere... I am happy
to follow.

Aaron





On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:50 AM, Even Rouault 
wrote:

> Foks,
>
> I read through the emails of this thread and I'm still not sure to
> understand
> what the exact focus would be. It seems it might go beyond the title of
> this
> email thread.
>
> Is it about documentation about projections ? If so, I guess improving
> proj.4
> documentation could be appreciated. There has been a new commit just last
> night ( http://lists.maptools.org/pipermail/proj/2016-September/
> 007480.html )
> to add the chart of each projection :
> http://proj4.org/projections/index.html . There are only images extracted
> from
> ftp://ftp.remotesensing.org/proj/OF90-284.pdf for now but that would be
> great
> to extend them with formulas, etc...
>
> Is it about having a catalog of spatial reference systems (and all related
> information: projections, projection parameters, ellipsoids, datums, prime
> meridians, area of use, transformations, etc...) ? Then there are different
> projects already tackling that. For example GDAL starts with the EPSG
> catalog
> + some algorithms to detect one of the many datum shifts to WGS84 (this
> part
> is controversial and could/should be improved), and that is the source from
> which the proj.4 'espg' catalog (the whole process is documented at
> https://svn.osgeo.org/metacrs/geotiff/trunk/libgeotiff/csv/README). This
> process
> is a bit cumbersome and we had some discussions last year about perhaps
> adopting a SQLite3 database instead (see thread starting at
> https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/metacrs/2015-August/000846.html) : this
> hasn't made progress yet.
> GDAL has also a few extra catalogs from (somewhat old) ESRI definitions,
> and
> other vendors. There are also catalogs for SRS of other planets :
> https://trac.osgeo.org/gdal/ticket/6623 (interestingly Peter Baumann
> mentionned that the EPSG service might host this catalog in the future)
> A tricky part about all this catalogs is the intellectual property behind
> as
> there are often not completely "free" in the meaning we generally give to
> that
> term for software (redistribution is OK, but most often modifying
> definitions
> is not allowed). But beyond that, as raised by Carl Reed, adding new
> spatial
> reference system definitions, or editing existing ones, is something that
> needs
> some form of validation at some point (unless you decide that anyone can
> modify anything, but that opens the door to voluntary or unvoluntary
> mess). It
> is similar to when someone submits a patch/pull request for code: someone
> needs to make a decision if it is appropriate or not.
>
> You've also identified spatialreference.org (now somewhat abandonned due
> to
> l

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Detect and define the coordinate system of gis data with no projection information automatically

[Luí­s de Sousa]

Dear all, thank you for the many contributions to this discussion. Some 
background:

If you have not done so, please watch the address by Calvin Metcalf on Proj 
[0]. From his reflections and the discussion that ensued it became apparent to 
me that presently there is no CRS/projection registry in the public domain 
under maintenance. Take the EPSG registry for instance: not exactly open and 
does not provide essential information, particular on projections. I myself 
have struggled recently to find information in the public domain on recent 
projections such as Eckart's or Snyder's. Digging into scientific publications 
is pretty much the only way to go (something not every one can do). The 
original message by Manfred was just a catalyst to this idea of an OSGeo 
sponsored/sanctioned registry.

My idea is to use GitHub and its pull request mechanism as way to force human 
verification of contributions. Contrary to other registries, this would be a 
completely transparent process. The end result would be a structure of MD files 
hooked up with ReadTheDocs. It just happens the Proj4 documentation that Even 
linked to [1] is already a step in this direction.

I agree that any new initiative should not overlap with ongoing projects - in 
particular since Proj4 is an OSGeo project. Therefore the route action right 
now would be to contribute to the Proj4 documentation, as Even suggests.

There is though a major issue to solve, the Proj4 handles. They are ambiguous 
in some cases (as Calvin reports) and do not cover all projections out there. 
So, there is some hard rock to break.

Regards,

Luís


[0] 
http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/misc/openstreetmap/FOSS4G-2016/foss4g-2016-1163-nobody_cares_about_your_datum_or_the_kleinstaaterei_of_spatial_reference_systems-hd.webm

[1] http://proj4.org/projections/index.html___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Detect and define the coordinate system of gis data with no projection information automatically

[Julien Moquet]

Thank you Even,

It's true I was just about to contribute to http://proj4.org/projections/
index.html !


"Is it about having a catalog of spatial reference systems (and all related
information: projections, projection parameters, ellipsoids, datums, prime
meridians, area of use, transformations, etc...) "

Yes. And it's true that many other projects made a catalog on their own.
But all of them need a human being to get hacked.


We will get back on metacrs or spatialreference mailing list.
But it was needed to act the project need to be, on a wider part of the
community.


Regards,
Julien.




2016-09-02 9:50 GMT+02:00 Even Rouault :

> Foks,
>
> I read through the emails of this thread and I'm still not sure to
> understand
> what the exact focus would be. It seems it might go beyond the title of
> this
> email thread.
>
> Is it about documentation about projections ? If so, I guess improving
> proj.4
> documentation could be appreciated. There has been a new commit just last
> night ( http://lists.maptools.org/pipermail/proj/2016-September/
> 007480.html )
> to add the chart of each projection :
> http://proj4.org/projections/index.html . There are only images extracted
> from
> ftp://ftp.remotesensing.org/proj/OF90-284.pdf for now but that would be
> great
> to extend them with formulas, etc...
>
> Is it about having a catalog of spatial reference systems (and all related
> information: projections, projection parameters, ellipsoids, datums, prime
> meridians, area of use, transformations, etc...) ? Then there are different
> projects already tackling that. For example GDAL starts with the EPSG
> catalog
> + some algorithms to detect one of the many datum shifts to WGS84 (this
> part
> is controversial and could/should be improved), and that is the source from
> which the proj.4 'espg' catalog (the whole process is documented at
> https://svn.osgeo.org/metacrs/geotiff/trunk/libgeotiff/csv/README). This
> process
> is a bit cumbersome and we had some discussions last year about perhaps
> adopting a SQLite3 database instead (see thread starting at
> https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/metacrs/2015-August/000846.html) : this
> hasn't made progress yet.
> GDAL has also a few extra catalogs from (somewhat old) ESRI definitions,
> and
> other vendors. There are also catalogs for SRS of other planets :
> https://trac.osgeo.org/gdal/ticket/6623 (interestingly Peter Baumann
> mentionned that the EPSG service might host this catalog in the future)
> A tricky part about all this catalogs is the intellectual property behind
> as
> there are often not completely "free" in the meaning we generally give to
> that
> term for software (redistribution is OK, but most often modifying
> definitions
> is not allowed). But beyond that, as raised by Carl Reed, adding new
> spatial
> reference system definitions, or editing existing ones, is something that
> needs
> some form of validation at some point (unless you decide that anyone can
> modify anything, but that opens the door to voluntary or unvoluntary
> mess). It
> is similar to when someone submits a patch/pull request for code: someone
> needs to make a decision if it is appropriate or not.
>
> You've also identified spatialreference.org (now somewhat abandonned due
> to
> lack of volunteer) or epsg.io as online catalogs. I see also
> https://github.com/ebrelsford/projestions#api that has been mentionned.
> Perhaps one or several of them of those could be used as the base to build
> something new above ?
>
> Probably that the MetaCRS list could be a more appropriate and focused
> place
> to hold such further discussions ?
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/metacrs
>
> Unrelated: I read a few confusions in this thread with "OSGeo members" vs
> "OSGeo charter members". Quickly summarizing http://www.osgeo.org/
> membership:
> anyone can declare himself as a OSGeo member by registering himself on
> https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Special:RequestAccount . OSGeo charter
> members are
> members who are elected, for the only additional purpose of electing the
> OSGeo
> boards. There are also OSGeo participants who are anyone that takes part to
> OSGeo related activities. Projects are generally open to contributions from
> anyone, with some kernel/PSC (not necessarily made of charter members)
> taking
> the main decisions.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Even
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > At FOSS4G 2016 in Bonn i talked with Venkatesh Raghavan about my poster
> > presentation "SHAPEFILE PROJECTIONFINDER". URL to poster:
> > http://www.egger-gis.at/app/download/13175253496/POSTER_
> EGGER_FOSS4G.pdf?t
> > =1469787116
> >
> > He recommended to start a discussion in this mailing list about the topic
> > mentioned in the mail subject.
> >
> > I also talked in Bonn with Petr Pridal about http://epsg.io. Some days
> > before Bonn i wrote emails to Aaaron Racicot and the mailing list of
> > http://spatialrefrence.org.
> >
> > Please read first carefully on my

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Detect and define the coordinate system of gis data with no projection information automatically

[Julien Moquet]

Thank you Dirk,

I was missing that part from Peter answer.

I fully understand that the solution we want to build need to respect
existing services.
And I wasn't suspect how many registry there was !

Regards,
Julien.

2016-09-02 9:38 GMT+02:00 Dirk Frigne :

> Peter,
> Carl,
>
> Thank you for your valuable input to the discussion,
> For me it is clear, as Peter suggests that improvements should be build on
> top of what exists, and is carefully validated.
>
> Dirk.
>
>
> On 2016-09-02 01:45, Carl Reed wrote:
>
>> Julien -
>>
>> The EPSG is what the OGC considers normative. This is because there are
>> humans in the loop that process requests for new a CRS to be added to
>> the EPSG database. The humans are geodesy experts who validate the
>> "correctness" or validity of a submitted CRS. After review, most
>> submitted CRSs are included in the EPSG database and available via
>> registry interfaces, such as provided by the OGC. Obviously, the process
>> can take a while as the humans are volunteers.
>>
>> The primary problem with a totally open CRS registry is validation. In
>> the 100% situation, anyone can submit and have included a CRS in the
>> registry. At that point, every entry in the registry becomes suspect as
>> to its mathematical correctness and geodetic validity. The problem is
>> exacerbated if anyone can edit existing entries. Then the entire
>> registry becomes suspect and buyer beware - along with potential
>> liability/litigation.
>>
>> So, if there is a decision to move forward within the OSGeo community to
>> provide a CRS registry, I would suggest also providing a governance
>> mechanism and/or process to ensure as best as possible the validity of
>> entries in the registry.
>>
>> My two cents on this topic!
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Carl Reed
>> Long time geo guy
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 5:17 PM, Julien Moquet > > wrote:
>>
>> Hi Peter,
>>
>> How open is the OGC registry ?
>> If data came from EPSG, it will not be really open : they never
>> answer the request I sent.
>> I think it's a human scalability problem (not really maintained).
>>
>> The idea is to make an open registry.
>> May be it can use OGC registry, but projects might want to superseed
>> it when request are not taken into account.
>> Github offer an easy way to fork data, for free.
>>
>> Are you with us so ?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Julien.
>>
>>
>> 2016-09-01 21:29 GMT+02:00 Peter Baumann
>> > >:
>>
>> Hi Manfred,
>>
>> On 09/01/2016 05:55 PM, manf...@egger-gis.at
>>  wrote:
>> > Hello Peter,
>> >
>> > Sorry, I have never heard of this standard.
>>
>> it is not a standard, it is a service offered by OGC (and based
>> on standards).
>>
>> > Is there a existing sample application using this database by
>> OGC? Is there a simple way to get the WKT like:
>> > http://www.epsg-registry.org/
>>
>> the link below yields GML. Other representations can be added -
>> for example, the
>> activist group establishing here might submit WKT
>> representations; better,
>> though, would be a tool for converting from GML as EPSG does
>> updates every now
>> and then. Such a tool might get extended at some time to also
>> deliver JSON
>> representations. Ideally it would do that on the fly whenever a
>> CRS definition
>> is requested. But now I am jumping ahead - obviously there is
>> good room for
>> extension and further services, at the same time avoiding
>> duplication of effort.
>>
>> cheers,
>> Peter
>>
>> PS: note that this service endpoint is mainly for m2m requests,
>> not so much for
>> human inspection. Another facet for discussion.
>>
>> PS2: the underlying service software is open-source (LGPL),
>> might be of
>> interest, too.
>>
>>
>> > To Luí­s: Maybe before we start with a new datamodel and
>> templates, we should look what solutions exist and collect them
>> in the github project and then decide?
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> >
>> > Manfred
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: "Peter Baumann" > >
>> > Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2016 3:20am
>> > To: "Luí­s de Sousa" > >, "manf...@egger-gis.at
>> " > >
>> > Cc: discuss@lists.osgeo.org 
>> > Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Detect and define the coordinate
>> system of gis data with no projection information automatically
>>

[OSGeo-Discuss] {20} Ticket received: Discuss Digest, Vol 116, Issue 22

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Today's Topics:

   1. Detect and define the coordinate system of gis data   with no
  projection information automatically (manf...@egger-gis.at)
   2. Re: Detect and define the coordinate system of gisdata with
  no projection information automatically (Luí­s de Sousa)

--

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2016 12:05:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: "manf...@egger-gis.at" 
To: discuss@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Detect and define the coordinate system of
gis datawith no projection information automatically
Message-ID: <1472400345.016531...@webmail.jimdo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=UTF-8

Hello,

At FOSS4G 2016 in Bonn i talked with Venkatesh Raghavan about my poster 
presentation "SHAPEFILE PROJECTIONFINDER". URL to poster: 
http://www.egger-gis.at/app/download/13175253496/POSTER_EGGER_FOSS4G.pdf?t=1469787116

He recommended to start a discussion in this mailing list about the topic 
mentioned in the mail subject. 

I also talked in Bonn with Petr Pridal about http://epsg.io. Some days before 
Bonn i wrote emails to Aaaron Racicot and the mailing list of 
http://spatialrefrence.org.

Please read first carefully on my website, what i plan to do:

http://www.egger-gis.at/shapefile-projectionfinder/

There are two problems to solve before tools like SHAPEFILE PROJECTIONFINDER 
can be developed as a sustainable solution:

1. Until today there is no stable free service running like www.projfinder.com 
by Aaron Racicot, which can be used by all developers.

2. Until today there is no open source database which includes all coordinate 
system with epsg-code and additionally user and esri definded grids.

There are open source solutions like:

- spatialrefrence.org 
- epsg.io

But in the detail both solutions have problems to update their database with 
low costs.

Maybe OSGeo can promote a stable service with load balancing on the base of an 
existing solution like epsg.io including Aarons idea? 

Maybe organisation like UN, a university or EU (INTERREG) are possible project 
partners/sponsors for such a solution?

The goal is: Tools like SHAPEFILE PROJECTIONFINDER, a Q-GIS-Plugin or a mobile 
application can use a stable free gis-service updated daily and help gis users 
to solve projection troubles faster. I think gis users working not everyday 
with gis will be happy about this solutions?

What do you think about my idea?

Best regards,

Manfred Egger

Alois-Schrott-Str. 34
6020 Innsbruck
Austria

Web: http://egger-gis.at

--

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2016 14:39:11 -0400
From: Luí­s de Sousa 
To: "manf...@egger-gis.at" 
Cc: discuss@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Detect and define the coordinate system
of gis  data with no projection information automatically
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Dear Manfred,

The projection finder project is not entirely clear to me, however, the 
suggestion for a new coordinate system database is indeed pertinent. This was 
referred in other addresses at the conference: spatialreference.org has not 
been maintained for several years; parts of proj4 are not, or poorly, 
maintained.

Besides a reference system database, it would also be quite useful to have a 
projection data base, including mathematical definitions, map sketches of their 
ouput and some clues or guidelines to its implementation (e.g. pseudo-code 
algorithms). This information is today very dispersed in the web.

Regards,

Luís

 Original Message 
Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Detect and define the coordinate system of gis data 
with no projection information automatically
Local Time: August 28, 2016 6:05 PM
UTC Time: August 28, 2016 4:05 PM
From: manf...@egger-gis.at
To: discuss@lists.osgeo.org

Hello,

At FOSS4G 2016 in Bonn i talked with Venkatesh Raghavan about my poster 
presentation "SHAPEFILE PROJECTIONFINDER". URL to poster:
http://www.egger-gis.at/app/download/13175253496/POSTER_EGGER_FOSS4G.pdf?t=1469787116

He recommended to start a discussion in this mailing list about the topic 
mentioned in the mail subject.

I also talked in Bonn with Petr Pridal about http://epsg.io. Some days before 
Bonn i wrote emails to Aaaron Racicot and the mailing lis

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Detect and define the coordinate system of gis data with no projection information automatically

[Aaron Racicot]

Yes... this conversation has kind of morphed.

The projfinder.com idea started as a side project in collaboration with the
cugos.org group.  The idea is simple...

Given a dataset with an unknown projection:

1) Have the end user give a "rough estimate" of the geo-location of the
dataset by centering a map on that location
2) Have the user give one X,Y pair of coordinates from the dataset

>From this information we can try to "guess" the projection of the data.  I
presented this idea at FOSS4G NA 2013 and the slides are located here:

http://media.reprojected.com/presentations/Presentations/foss4g-na-2013/projfinder.pdf

Manfred has taken this concept and created a desktop tool with a similar
goal... help people determine the projection of existing data using some
spatial context given by the user.

It is true that this idea requires a spatial database of projections (and
bounding boxes of projection validity).

The test server that this old (circa 2013) projfinder service is running on
is small and not meant to be a production system.  It is based on EPSG data
loaded into postgis to do the processing.

For clarity it seems to me we have multiple conversations going (and
probably can migrate them someplace other than the general OSGeo Discuss
list):

1) Discussion of open and authoritative projection databases
2) Discussion of services built around these databases
3) A more narrow conversation on the validity of a service like
projfinder.com and its future (where it is served, etc).

Anyway, I have not really chimed in as I am not so involved in #1 and #2...
but if people want to take a conversation about #3 elsewhere... I am happy
to follow.

Aaron





On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:50 AM, Even Rouault 
wrote:

> Foks,
>
> I read through the emails of this thread and I'm still not sure to
> understand
> what the exact focus would be. It seems it might go beyond the title of
> this
> email thread.
>
> Is it about documentation about projections ? If so, I guess improving
> proj.4
> documentation could be appreciated. There has been a new commit just last
> night ( http://lists.maptools.org/pipermail/proj/2016-September/
> 007480.html )
> to add the chart of each projection :
> http://proj4.org/projections/index.html . There are only images extracted
> from
> ftp://ftp.remotesensing.org/proj/OF90-284.pdf for now but that would be
> great
> to extend them with formulas, etc...
>
> Is it about having a catalog of spatial reference systems (and all related
> information: projections, projection parameters, ellipsoids, datums, prime
> meridians, area of use, transformations, etc...) ? Then there are different
> projects already tackling that. For example GDAL starts with the EPSG
> catalog
> + some algorithms to detect one of the many datum shifts to WGS84 (this
> part
> is controversial and could/should be improved), and that is the source from
> which the proj.4 'espg' catalog (the whole process is documented at
> https://svn.osgeo.org/metacrs/geotiff/trunk/libgeotiff/csv/README). This
> process
> is a bit cumbersome and we had some discussions last year about perhaps
> adopting a SQLite3 database instead (see thread starting at
> https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/metacrs/2015-August/000846.html) : this
> hasn't made progress yet.
> GDAL has also a few extra catalogs from (somewhat old) ESRI definitions,
> and
> other vendors. There are also catalogs for SRS of other planets :
> https://trac.osgeo.org/gdal/ticket/6623 (interestingly Peter Baumann
> mentionned that the EPSG service might host this catalog in the future)
> A tricky part about all this catalogs is the intellectual property behind
> as
> there are often not completely "free" in the meaning we generally give to
> that
> term for software (redistribution is OK, but most often modifying
> definitions
> is not allowed). But beyond that, as raised by Carl Reed, adding new
> spatial
> reference system definitions, or editing existing ones, is something that
> needs
> some form of validation at some point (unless you decide that anyone can
> modify anything, but that opens the door to voluntary or unvoluntary
> mess). It
> is similar to when someone submits a patch/pull request for code: someone
> needs to make a decision if it is appropriate or not.
>
> You've also identified spatialreference.org (now somewhat abandonned due
> to
> lack of volunteer) or epsg.io as online catalogs. I see also
> https://github.com/ebrelsford/projestions#api that has been mentionned.
> Perhaps one or several of them of those could be used as the base to build
> something new above ?
>
> Probably that the MetaCRS list could be a more appropriate and focused
> place
> to hold such further discussions ?
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/metacrs
>
> Unrelated: I read a few confusions in this thread with "OSGeo members" vs
> "OSGeo charter members". Quickly summarizing http://www.osgeo.org/
> membership:
> anyone can declare himself as a OSGeo member by registering himsel

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo GSoC 2016: Summary and results

[Vicky Vergara]

Anne & Madi

Thanks for your support on all the administrative tasks to make things
happen.

​Vicky​


On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 9:27 AM, Anne Ghisla  wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> One more GSoC has come to an end, with an awesome array of successful
> student projects:
> https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/organizations/6273632556810240/
>
> We would like to warmly thank our mentors for the first-class support
> to the students, defying timezones and language hurdles, so that each
> student could comfortably learn and code in their chosen software
> project. Also, thank you to all our students for their commitment and
> the excellent results produced. Every year the bar is raised a notch!
> And last but not least, a huge thank you to Google Open Source Team,
> who made GSoC a reality for the 12th year in a row!
>
> We wish all mentors a relaxing winter of code, and welcome our students
> to stay around and enjoy open source community, this time without
> deadlines :)
>
> Until next GSoC, goodbye!
>
> Anne and Madi
> OSGeo GSoC Administrators
> http://goo.gl/SfjlVb
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo GSoC 2016: Summary and results

[SERGIO ACOSTAYLARA]

?+ 1


Sergio Acosta y Lara
Departamento de Geomática
Dirección Nacional de Topografía
Ministerio de Transporte y Obras Públicas
URUGUAY
(598)29157933 ints. 20329/20330

De: Discuss  en nombre de Venkatesh Raghavan 

Enviado: viernes, 02 de setiembre de 2016 11:54
Para: Anne Ghisla; OSGeo Discuss list; GeoForAll list
Cc: Margherita Di Leo
Asunto: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo GSoC 2016: Summary and results


Anne and Madi,

Many thanks for your immaculate management of GSoC 2016.
Congratulations to all students and thanks to mentors for
their time and effort.

Best

Venka


On 9/2/2016 11:27 PM, Anne Ghisla wrote:

Dear all,

One more GSoC has come to an end, with an awesome array of successful
student projects:
https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/organizations/6273632556810240/

We would like to warmly thank our mentors for the first-class support
to the students, defying timezones and language hurdles, so that each
student could comfortably learn and code in their chosen software
project. Also, thank you to all our students for their commitment and
the excellent results produced. Every year the bar is raised a notch!
And last but not least, a huge thank you to Google Open Source Team,
who made GSoC a reality for the 12th year in a row!

We wish all mentors a relaxing winter of code, and welcome our students
to stay around and enjoy open source community, this time without
deadlines :)

Until next GSoC, goodbye!

Anne and Madi
OSGeo GSoC Administrators
http://goo.gl/SfjlVb
https://goo.gl/photos/LSw49B5aonoZJ6S66





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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo GSoC 2016: Summary and results

[Venkatesh Raghavan]

Anne and Madi,

Many thanks for your immaculate management of GSoC 2016.
Congratulations to all students and thanks to mentors for
their time and effort.

Best

Venka



On 9/2/2016 11:27 PM, Anne Ghisla wrote:

Dear all,

One more GSoC has come to an end, with an awesome array of successful
student projects:
https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/organizations/6273632556810240/

We would like to warmly thank our mentors for the first-class support
to the students, defying timezones and language hurdles, so that each
student could comfortably learn and code in their chosen software
project. Also, thank you to all our students for their commitment and
the excellent results produced. Every year the bar is raised a notch!
And last but not least, a huge thank you to Google Open Source Team,
who made GSoC a reality for the 12th year in a row!

We wish all mentors a relaxing winter of code, and welcome our students
to stay around and enjoy open source community, this time without
deadlines :)

Until next GSoC, goodbye!

Anne and Madi
OSGeo GSoC Administrators
http://goo.gl/SfjlVb
https://goo.gl/photos/LSw49B5aonoZJ6S66



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[OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo GSoC 2016: Summary and results

[Anne Ghisla]

Dear all,

One more GSoC has come to an end, with an awesome array of successful
student projects:
https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/organizations/6273632556810240/

We would like to warmly thank our mentors for the first-class support
to the students, defying timezones and language hurdles, so that each
student could comfortably learn and code in their chosen software
project. Also, thank you to all our students for their commitment and
the excellent results produced. Every year the bar is raised a notch!
And last but not least, a huge thank you to Google Open Source Team,
who made GSoC a reality for the 12th year in a row!

We wish all mentors a relaxing winter of code, and welcome our students
to stay around and enjoy open source community, this time without
deadlines :)

Until next GSoC, goodbye!

Anne and Madi
OSGeo GSoC Administrators
http://goo.gl/SfjlVb
https://goo.gl/photos/LSw49B5aonoZJ6S66



pgp7fAnAAuLVT.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Detect and define the coordinate system of gis data with no projection information automatically

[Even Rouault]

Foks,

I read through the emails of this thread and I'm still not sure to understand 
what the exact focus would be. It seems it might go beyond the title of this 
email thread.

Is it about documentation about projections ? If so, I guess improving proj.4 
documentation could be appreciated. There has been a new commit just last 
night ( http://lists.maptools.org/pipermail/proj/2016-September/007480.html ) 
to add the chart of each projection :
http://proj4.org/projections/index.html . There are only images extracted from 
ftp://ftp.remotesensing.org/proj/OF90-284.pdf for now but that would be great 
to extend them with formulas, etc...

Is it about having a catalog of spatial reference systems (and all related 
information: projections, projection parameters, ellipsoids, datums, prime 
meridians, area of use, transformations, etc...) ? Then there are different 
projects already tackling that. For example GDAL starts with the EPSG catalog 
+ some algorithms to detect one of the many datum shifts to WGS84 (this part 
is controversial and could/should be improved), and that is the source from 
which the proj.4 'espg' catalog (the whole process is documented at 
https://svn.osgeo.org/metacrs/geotiff/trunk/libgeotiff/csv/README). This 
process 
is a bit cumbersome and we had some discussions last year about perhaps 
adopting a SQLite3 database instead (see thread starting at 
https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/metacrs/2015-August/000846.html) : this 
hasn't made progress yet.
GDAL has also a few extra catalogs from (somewhat old) ESRI definitions, and 
other vendors. There are also catalogs for SRS of other planets : 
https://trac.osgeo.org/gdal/ticket/6623 (interestingly Peter Baumann 
mentionned that the EPSG service might host this catalog in the future)
A tricky part about all this catalogs is the intellectual property behind as 
there are often not completely "free" in the meaning we generally give to that 
term for software (redistribution is OK, but most often modifying definitions 
is not allowed). But beyond that, as raised by Carl Reed, adding new spatial 
reference system definitions, or editing existing ones, is something that needs 
some form of validation at some point (unless you decide that anyone can 
modify anything, but that opens the door to voluntary or unvoluntary mess). It 
is similar to when someone submits a patch/pull request for code: someone 
needs to make a decision if it is appropriate or not.

You've also identified spatialreference.org (now somewhat abandonned due to 
lack of volunteer) or epsg.io as online catalogs. I see also 
https://github.com/ebrelsford/projestions#api that has been mentionned. 
Perhaps one or several of them of those could be used as the base to build 
something new above ?

Probably that the MetaCRS list could be a more appropriate and focused place 
to hold such further discussions ? 
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/metacrs

Unrelated: I read a few confusions in this thread with "OSGeo members" vs 
"OSGeo charter members". Quickly summarizing http://www.osgeo.org/membership: 
anyone can declare himself as a OSGeo member by registering himself on 
https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Special:RequestAccount . OSGeo charter members are 
members who are elected, for the only additional purpose of electing the OSGeo 
boards. There are also OSGeo participants who are anyone that takes part to 
OSGeo related activities. Projects are generally open to contributions from 
anyone, with some kernel/PSC (not necessarily made of charter members) taking 
the main decisions.

Best regards,

Even

> Hello,
> 
> At FOSS4G 2016 in Bonn i talked with Venkatesh Raghavan about my poster
> presentation "SHAPEFILE PROJECTIONFINDER". URL to poster:
> http://www.egger-gis.at/app/download/13175253496/POSTER_EGGER_FOSS4G.pdf?t
> =1469787116
> 
> He recommended to start a discussion in this mailing list about the topic
> mentioned in the mail subject.
> 
> I also talked in Bonn with Petr Pridal about http://epsg.io. Some days
> before Bonn i wrote emails to Aaaron Racicot and the mailing list of
> http://spatialrefrence.org.
> 
> Please read first carefully on my website, what i plan to do:
> 
> http://www.egger-gis.at/shapefile-projectionfinder/
> 
> There are two problems to solve before tools like SHAPEFILE
> PROJECTIONFINDER can be developed as a sustainable solution:
> 
> 1. Until today there is no stable free service running like
> www.projfinder.com by Aaron Racicot, which can be used by all developers.
> 
> 2. Until today there is no open source database which includes all
> coordinate system with epsg-code and additionally user and esri definded
> grids.
> 
> There are open source solutions like:
> 
> - spatialrefrence.org
> - epsg.io
> 
> But in the detail both solutions have problems to update their database
> with low costs.
> 
> Maybe OSGeo can promote a stable service with load balancing on the base of
> an existing solution like epsg.io including Aarons idea?
> 
> Ma

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Detect and define the coordinate system of gis data with no projection information automatically

[Dirk Frigne]

Peter,
Carl,

Thank you for your valuable input to the discussion,
For me it is clear, as Peter suggests that improvements should be build 
on top of what exists, and is carefully validated.


Dirk.

On 2016-09-02 01:45, Carl Reed wrote:

Julien -

The EPSG is what the OGC considers normative. This is because there are
humans in the loop that process requests for new a CRS to be added to
the EPSG database. The humans are geodesy experts who validate the
"correctness" or validity of a submitted CRS. After review, most
submitted CRSs are included in the EPSG database and available via
registry interfaces, such as provided by the OGC. Obviously, the process
can take a while as the humans are volunteers.

The primary problem with a totally open CRS registry is validation. In
the 100% situation, anyone can submit and have included a CRS in the
registry. At that point, every entry in the registry becomes suspect as
to its mathematical correctness and geodetic validity. The problem is
exacerbated if anyone can edit existing entries. Then the entire
registry becomes suspect and buyer beware - along with potential
liability/litigation.

So, if there is a decision to move forward within the OSGeo community to
provide a CRS registry, I would suggest also providing a governance
mechanism and/or process to ensure as best as possible the validity of
entries in the registry.

My two cents on this topic!

Regards

Carl Reed
Long time geo guy

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 5:17 PM, Julien Moquet mailto:moquet.jul...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Peter,

How open is the OGC registry ?
If data came from EPSG, it will not be really open : they never
answer the request I sent.
I think it's a human scalability problem (not really maintained).

The idea is to make an open registry.
May be it can use OGC registry, but projects might want to superseed
it when request are not taken into account.
Github offer an easy way to fork data, for free.

Are you with us so ?

Regards,
Julien.


2016-09-01 21:29 GMT+02:00 Peter Baumann
mailto:p.baum...@jacobs-university.de>>:

Hi Manfred,

On 09/01/2016 05:55 PM, manf...@egger-gis.at
 wrote:
> Hello Peter,
>
> Sorry, I have never heard of this standard.

it is not a standard, it is a service offered by OGC (and based
on standards).

> Is there a existing sample application using this database by OGC? Is 
there a simple way to get the WKT like:
> http://www.epsg-registry.org/

the link below yields GML. Other representations can be added -
for example, the
activist group establishing here might submit WKT
representations; better,
though, would be a tool for converting from GML as EPSG does
updates every now
and then. Such a tool might get extended at some time to also
deliver JSON
representations. Ideally it would do that on the fly whenever a
CRS definition
is requested. But now I am jumping ahead - obviously there is
good room for
extension and further services, at the same time avoiding
duplication of effort.

cheers,
Peter

PS: note that this service endpoint is mainly for m2m requests,
not so much for
human inspection. Another facet for discussion.

PS2: the underlying service software is open-source (LGPL),
might be of
interest, too.


> To Luí­s: Maybe before we start with a new datamodel and
templates, we should look what solutions exist and collect them
in the github project and then decide?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Manfred
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Peter Baumann" mailto:p.baum...@jacobs-university.de>>
> Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2016 3:20am
> To: "Luí­s de Sousa" mailto:luis.de.so...@protonmail.ch>>, "manf...@egger-gis.at
" mailto:manf...@egger-gis.at>>
> Cc: discuss@lists.osgeo.org 
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Detect and define the coordinate
system of gis data with no projection information automatically
>
> Hi all,
>
> a public registry of all EPSG CRSs and their definitions is
provided by OGC
> since many years under http://www.opengis.net/ . For example,
WGS 84 is
> accessible through http://www.opengis.net/def/crs/EPSG/0/4326
 .
>
> This service is kept in sync with EPSG releases and adds
further CRS families,
> such as Index CRSs and height CRSs and in future, once
definitions are resolved
> by OGC, also time ("temporal") CRSs. Arrangement has been made
to also ho