Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Diversity in FOSS4G

2018-08-12 Thread Vicky Vergara
Hi all I went to the last FOSS4G Asia in Hyderabad, India, within IIIT university premises. There I met wonderful students. I was actually impressed with a particular female student, very bright, and with lots of ideas to tell. I invited her to eat out. She could not go out of the university,

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Diversity in FOSS4G

2018-08-12 Thread Ben Caradoc-Davies
On 12/08/18 21:14, María Arias de Reyna wrote: No, this is not a dismissal based on opinions. It is based on facts. This paper falls into the "correlation does not imply causation" fallacy:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation Yes, but lack of correlation refutes

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Diversity in FOSS4G

2018-08-12 Thread Ben Caradoc-Davies
On 13/08/18 07:31, Maria Antonia Brovelli wrote: in my opinion, we shall distinguish between equality and equity. Even supposing that there were countries where there is equality (but this is not true: think simply to the "gender gap", i.e. the difference in salary between men and women), the

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Diversity in FOSS4G

2018-08-12 Thread Bruce Bannerman
Hello everyone, It is good to see this discussion. We have a very good community, with talented people from many diverse ethnicities, cultures and gender. From my point of view, I would prefer to see a situation where we concentrate on getting the best representation for a particular event.

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Diversity in FOSS4G

2018-08-12 Thread Maria Antonia Brovelli
Dear Maria, Jonathan, Peter (and All) in my opinion, we shall distinguish between equality and equity. Even supposing that there were countries where there is equality (but this is not true: think simply to the "gender gap", i.e. the difference in salary between men and women), the point is

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Diversity in FOSS4G

2018-08-12 Thread Patrick Hogan
Maria, Beautifully expressed and quite enlightening! As well as sad for want of the less-aggressive and more-nurturing instincts women bring to the equation. We are a world out-of-balance without women truly equal. And the increasing imbalance to both economics and the environment exacerbates

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Diversity in FOSS4G

2018-08-12 Thread María Arias de Reyna
I understand it is difficult to see your own privileges and biases[1]. That's why I always prefer that a PoC talks about racism instead of me. But I can still talk about inequality regarding women. Remember that 90% of said here applies to all PoC. And that WoC suffer this from both sides. So I'm

[OSGeo-Discuss] ​Re: Diversity in FOSS4G

2018-08-12 Thread Malena Libman
Hello everyone. I have been reading this thread thoughtfully and I have several concerns. Firstly, I am of the belief that there is no scientific production tat is 100% objetive and factual; everything is tainted by the scientist baggage. Still, it's my opinion that the discussion should not

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Diversity in FOSS4G

2018-08-12 Thread Jonathan Moules
That's the thing: they jump into that conclusion with biased prejudices. Right now, we don't have equal opportunity anywhere in the world. Not women, not PoC. You are proving me right, they are biased! https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/169/Strawman-Fallacy

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Diversity in FOSS4G

2018-08-12 Thread Peter Baumann
On 12.08.2018 11:28, María Arias de Reyna wrote: > On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 11:13 AM, Peter Baumann > wrote: >> +1 for every word in Jonathan's excellently worded message. Science at its >> heart >> is open (!) to any and all provable insights (and even conjectures expressed, >> and all of that

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Diversity in FOSS4G

2018-08-12 Thread María Arias de Reyna
El dom., 12 ago. 2018 11:58, Jonathan Moules escribió: > > No, this is not a dismissal based on opinions. It is based on facts. > This paper falls into the "correlation does not imply causation" > fallacy: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation > > You will find

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Diversity in FOSS4G

2018-08-12 Thread Jonathan Moules
>  No, this is not a dismissal based on opinions. It is based on facts. This paper falls into the "correlation does not imply causation" fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation You will find it is rarely the case that a peer-reviewed scientific paper in

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Diversity in FOSS4G

2018-08-12 Thread María Arias de Reyna
On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 11:13 AM, Peter Baumann wrote: > +1 for every word in Jonathan's excellently worded message. Science at its > heart > is open (!) to any and all provable insights (and even conjectures expressed, > and all of that may be disproven of course), which works only if not

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Diversity in FOSS4G

2018-08-12 Thread María Arias de Reyna
On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 11:34 PM, Jonathan Moules wrote: >> Let me tell you something: having legal rights doesn't mean you have >> equal opportunities. Those studies are falling into the wrong >> conclusions probably because bias of the researchers. > > > Apologies, but that's a general

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Diversity in FOSS4G

2018-08-12 Thread Peter Baumann
+1 for every word in Jonathan's excellently worded message. Science at its heart is open (!) to any and all provable insights (and even conjectures expressed, and all of that may be disproven of course), which works only if not driven by dogmas wiping out unwanted results upfront as "wrong