### Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Thoughts on how to use elevation in routing

```
Steve,

Adding viewsheds to the package would certainly up the computing costs;
I was wondering if you had a limit to what sort of processing power
you've got there. ;-)

I also think what you're proposing might be interesting, but you have to
be careful about what conclusions you can draw from it. At what point
does the cost due to gradient variations become insignificant to the
overall cost of a route for a particular type of vehicle? For a trucker
on an interstate highway it doesn't signify because the statistical
noise of factors such high speeds and short driving time balanced
against the higher price of fuel, services and road freight taxes
completely overwhelms the cost factor contributed by the change in
gradients. So in those cases you'd be computing numbers but not saying
anything.

A different scenario, where gradient /is/ a significant factor, would be
a three-day 100 mile bike ride event through the mountains (like the
'Ride the Rockies' event they hold around here every year.) The power
that bicyclists can produce is so low that speeds and endurance are
strongly affected by grades. But a bicyclist doesn't typically operate
on the scale of the nation so applying the calculations to the entire
TIGER file is overkill. Also, the bicyclist operates on such a large
scale that the source data you're using to calculate gradient (30m DEM)
may be too coarse to be reliable on the bicyclist's scale.

I'm not saying it isn't worth doing, I'm just saying you'll need to
qualify the precision of your results before you can say much about
applying this to any real-world problems.

- Bill Thoen

On 9/13/2010 5:28 PM, Stephen Woodbridge wrote:

Bill,

Thanks for the ideas. I might try to do something with the viewshed
idea in the future. It would need a LOT of computing to process all
the road segments in a National dataset like Tiger.

But for now I would like to figure out the routing costs.

One idea I had was to compute the grade for a segment and then compute
cost as:

cost = (time or distance) * scalefactor * max(abs(grade), 1.0)

This would have the effect of causing segments with a lot of grade to
have a higher cost of traversal.

Or similarly, if you want to pick roads with a lot of elevation
changes then use cost factor like:

cost = (time or distance) * scalefactor /
abs(sum_elevation_changes_over_the_segment)

This would have the effect of decreasing the traversal cost for
segments that have a lot of elevation changes.

These are pretty crude estimates and probably would need some fine
tuning to get reasonable results.

Thanks,
-Steve W

On 9/13/2010 4:24 PM, Bill Thoen wrote:

Stephen Woodbridge wrote:

Hi all,

(This is cross posting from the pgrouting list, sorry for the dups.)

I have preprocessed some shapefile data and added elevation
information in the Z value of the coordinates. I'm wondering how to
best utilize that in routes and would like any thoughts or ideas you
might be willing to share.

The obvious answer is to wrap the elevation data into the cost values
as this is simple and straight forward and does not require code
changes. This brings me to what have other people done or thought

Since you seem to enjoy large database problems, have you considered
every few km? You could then create an objective cost factor for
scenic, proportional to the amount of land visible, with some
adjusting factor that distinguishes morphology, land cover, or other
weighted factors from each sample point. Creating a scale of scenic
and picturesque as it goes form ho-hum flatland to precipitous,
brake-burning, wheel-gripping adventurous might be fun all by itself.

If you're looking for 3D ideas, there's a GIS consulting company across
the hall from me that specializes in 3D information, visualization and
analysis, and I know they are working on web services to deliver the
sort of data that an application like yours would consume. Their website
is full of 3D imagery, articles and examples that you might want to
check out for ideas or inspiration There's a particularly good
representation of ridge lines, if your 're using those to determine a
topographic index (see http://ctmap.com/serendipity/index.php).

*Bill Thoen*
GISnet - www.gisnet.com http://www.gisnet.com/
1401 Walnut St., Suite C
Boulder, CO 80302
303-786-9961 tel
303-443-4856 fax
bth...@gisnet.com

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### Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Looking for Yum or RPM Site for GIS Suite for Centos 5.5

``` Thanks! I've still got to finish getting the machine built and the
RAID system set up and get PostgreSQL sorted out. Then I should be in
plenty of questions then.

- Bill Thoen
.
On 9/14/2010 5:41 AM, Mathieu Baudier wrote:

Thanks for all the help and advice on this, everybody! Especially for the
info on EPEL and ELGIS. I guess I had no idea that getting stable and

You can browse the spec files here:
https://projects.argeo.org/elgis/svn/factory/trunk/rpmbuild/

in order to see whether the switches you need are all there.
At first glance I think they are, but if you need some more, I can try

software. And it sounds like QGIS is a non-starter on CentOS. But I've got

I'm still trying to get QGIS fully working on CentOS 5, but as Micha
put it, this may not be worth the effort given that RHEL/CentOS 6 is
around the corner.

For the time being you have QGIS 1.4 working, integrated with GRASS,
BUT without the Python plugins (a big limitation).
We also have SRPMS for QGIS 1.0.2 (their LTS version) but there was
little interest in it, so we dropped it.

I appreciate the help as always.

Don't hesitate to join the EL GIS mailing-list:
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/el

This project is very user driven: we support what people actually use,
so this is the right place to send your wish list.
And feedback is very useful for us!
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### Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Thoughts on how to use elevation in routing

```
Stephen Woodbridge wrote:

Hi all,

(This is cross posting from the pgrouting list, sorry for the dups.)

I have preprocessed some shapefile data and added elevation
information in the Z value of the coordinates. I'm wondering how to
best utilize that in routes and would like any thoughts or ideas you
might be willing to share.

The obvious answer is to wrap the elevation data into the cost values
as this is simple and straight forward and does not require code
changes. This brings me to what have other people done or thought
Since you seem to enjoy large database problems, have you considered
every few km? You could then create an objective cost factor for
scenic, proportional to the amount of land visible, with some
adjusting factor that distinguishes morphology, land cover, or other
weighted factors from each sample point. Creating a scale of  scenic
and picturesque as it goes form ho-hum flatland to precipitous,
brake-burning, wheel-gripping  adventurous might be fun all by itself.

If you're looking for 3D ideas, there's a GIS  consulting company across
the hall from me that specializes in 3D information, visualization and
analysis, and I know they are working on web services to deliver the
sort of data that an application like yours would consume. Their website
is full of 3D imagery, articles and examples that you might want to
check out for ideas or inspiration  There's a particularly good
representation of ridge lines, if your 're using those to determine a
topographic index (see http://ctmap.com/serendipity/index.php).

*Bill Thoen*
GISnet - www.gisnet.com http://www.gisnet.com/
1401 Walnut St., Suite C
Boulder, CO 80302
303-786-9961 tel
303-443-4856 fax
bth...@gisnet.com

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### Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Looking for Yum or RPM Site for GIS Suite for Centos 5.5

```
Bill Thoen wrote:
I hope this is the appropriate place for this general-GIS software
question. Apologies if this isn't it.

I'm looking for a yum repo or an rpm download site for the following
set of GIS packages for a machine running Centos 5.5:

PostgreSQL
Proj4
GDAL / OGR tools
GEOS
PostGIS
MapServer
PHP Mapscript
Open Layers
Quantum GIS

Thanks for all the help and advice on this, everybody! Especially for
the info on EPEL and ELGIS. I guess I had no idea that getting stable
and reliable CentOS 5.5 means going back to earlier versions of the
working software. And it sounds like QGIS is a non-starter on CentOS.
But I've got FC13 on another machine so I can set it up there.

I appreciate the help as always.

--

*Bill Thoen*
GISnet - www.gisnet.com http://www.gisnet.com/
1401 Walnut St., Suite C
Boulder, CO 80302
303-786-9961 tel
303-443-4856 fax
bth...@gisnet.com

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### [OSGeo-Discuss] Looking for Yum or RPM Site for GIS Suite for Centos 5.5

```I hope this is the appropriate place for this general-GIS software
question. Apologies if this isn't it.

I'm looking for a yum repo or an rpm download site for the following set
of GIS packages for a machine running Centos 5.5:

PostgreSQL
Proj4
GDAL / OGR tools
GEOS
PostGIS
MapServer
PHP Mapscript
Open Layers
Quantum GIS

I'd like to have PostGIS compiled with at least these switches or their
equivalent built in:

--with-pgsql=...
--with-geos=...
--with-proj=...
--with-proj-libdir=...

GDAL should have at least these switches set:
--with-pg=...
--with-geos=yes

MapServer
--with-proj=/usr/local/ \
--with-geos=/usr/local/bin/geos-config \
--with-ogr=/usr/local/bin/gdal-config \
--with-gdal=/usr/local/bin/gdal-config \
--with-postgis=/usr/local/pgsql/bin/pg_config \
--with-wfs \
--with-wcs \
--with-wmsclient \
--with-wfsclient \
--with-curl-config=/usr/bin/curl-config \
--with-agg=/usr/local/src/agg --with-freetype \
--with-php=

I used to just compile these from source, but my sysAdminis recommends
that whenever possible, to use rpms to take advantage of yum's or rpm's
file management. and inventory capabilities. Since this is a brand new
machine, I'd like to follow the recommendations of people who know more
than I do, whenever I can.

So, does any know if there's a one-stop yum repository or rpm site where
I can get everything as integrated, compatible rpms ?

TIA,
- Bil Thoen
--

*Bill Thoen*
GISnet - www.gisnet.com http://www.gisnet.com/
1401 Walnut St., Suite C
Boulder, CO 80302
303-786-9961 tel
303-443-4856 fax
bth...@gisnet.com

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### Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Looking for Yum or RPM Site for GIS Suite for Centos 5.5

```
Fawcett, David (MPCA) wrote:

Micha Silver has a timely blog post:  http://www.surfaces.co.il/?p=782  (via
Planet OSGeo)

Nothing like being in the right place at the right time. That article
answers questions I haven't even formed yet. This paragraph alone has
probably just saved me hours of frustration!

The popular server platform, *CentOS*, can be nudged into service as a
GIS workstation, but since it’s a 4 year old OS, many of it’s base
packages (notably python is still at 2.4 on CentOS 5.5) are just too old
Extra Packages for Enterprise Linux _EPEL
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/FAQ#howtouse_ repo you can install
GRASS with a recent GDAL. PostGIS and Mapserver are also within an easy
“yum install” command. But don’t even bother trying QGIS. Bottom line:
CentOS 5 is the correct choice for a GIS database server, but for
desktop use, let’s wait for CentOS 6.

--

*Bill Thoen*
GISnet - www.gisnet.com http://www.gisnet.com/
1401 Walnut St., Suite C
Boulder, CO 80302
303-786-9961 tel
303-443-4856 fax
bth...@gisnet.com

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### Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Working with shapefiles in PHP

```
Peter wrote:
Regarding my previous query regarding tools to work with shapefiles in
PHP, ive written a progress report, that might be useful to other
passing PHP GIS newcomers.

http://www.webspaces.net.nz/page.php?view=working_with_shapefiles

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the summary. That sort of stuff is gold for us who are
newbies with some of these utilities. But I wanted to point out one
thing you don't have right yet. You wrote:

Mapnik is the new kid on the block, its used for open street map among
other things. It does much of what mapserver does, but _mapnik has
anti-aliasing_, hence does nice raster renders. The API is pretty much all

MapServer does too. Just use the AGG driver in the OUTPUTFORMAT object
in the mapfile to get nice-looking antialiasing over the entire map.

--
*Bill Thoen*
GISnet - www.gisnet.com
303-786-9961
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### [OSGeo-Discuss] Anyone Know What's Happened to All the NAIP Servers?

```Up until just a few days ago, USDA NAIP (US Dept of Agriculture's
National Agriculture Inventory Program) 1-meter aerial imagery was
available free from several government servers but suddenly they all
seem to have gone dark. Both the USGS ArcGIS and USDA.gov servers and a
couple of AFPO sources seemed to have dried up simultaneously. Doe
anyone know why? Is it going to be restored or scrapped? Is It is
available elsewhere?

I was using the USGS server at
http://isse.cr.usgs.gov/arcgis/services/Combined/USGS_EDC_Ortho_NAIP/MapServer/WMSServer?
but it's now broadcasting  a runtime error instead of images. I hope
it's not gone for good because it is a great source for free aerial
imagery. So if anyone knows what's happened or what's unfolding here I'd
like to find out. With the GeoCommunicator site announcing its shut-down
soon I'm getting concerned that something bigger might be happening to
US govt. spatial data resources.

- Bill Thoen

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### Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Geodata as Public Record in U.S.

```
Richard Greenwood wrote:
A friend of my prepared this analysis of geodata distribution and fees
at the county government level in the US:
http://home.centurytel.net/wilsonlandsurvey/docs/GIS Data as Public
Record.pdf
http://home.centurytel.net/wilsonlandsurvey/docs/GIS%20Data%20as%20Public%20Record.pdf%20

This comes up as 404 (not found) Is that the correct URL?

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### Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open Source Lurkers

```I've been a moderator for a commercial desktop mapping forum for more
than 10 years and this behavior is quite common. I think it has more to
do with how people adapt to a social network than it has to do with
anything unique in the Open Source world. Like Chris mentioned, the
majority of subscribers prefer to lurk below the public visibility
horizon in a way that resembles an iceberg where only the tip remains
above the waterline while the majority of its bulk lurks below.

People lurk for many of the reasons you suggest, but I think the most
common one is that they don't feel expert enough to contribute anything
useful to a thread, and the risk of saying something stoopid --in
public... and worse, thus revealing to their GIS/mapping peers the depth
of their ignorance-- is just too embarrassing to contemplate. Especially
when compared with the perceived safety of remaining anonymous in the
shadows where they can drink in new knowledge like free beer while also
being entertained by the interplay of the forum's regularly featured
fools and sages.

If we assume that Maslow was right about what motivates people
(self-interest) then lurking in an open source community and not
participating is exactly the wrong thing to do. If your business depends
on some FOSS tool, then it's in your self-interest to expand the
environment in which it operates as much as possible. Because if what
you sell depends on tools like OpenJUMP, you want OpenJUMP well
supported with a lively user group, a good supply of free data,
technologically competitive, and actively being developed. This is the
key to making money out of bits instead of atoms. If you sell services,
give away the software and the infrastructure of the environment it runs
gets. If you sell software, give away services that leverage it. But if
you lurk and don't contribute to its development or the development of
the environment in which it operates, then you're sort of stepping on

- Bill Thoen

Landon Blake wrote:

I would like to get some comments on a phenomenon I have discovered
among the OpenJUMP community. I know for sure of one (1) company that
maintains a separate fork of OpenJUMP, but which monitors our mailing
list and likely grabs patches form our source code repository. They
never participate in the forums or make known their use of OpenJUMP in
any other public manner.

I think there is at least one other company that does this.

I only learn of these companies when I am contacted by private e-mail
to work for them on OpenJUMP development, usually by some headhunter.
I actually did a little work for one of these companies (which was not
a great experience, but that is another story) and I was surprised at
how important OpenJUMP was to their operation. They even distributed
it to their customers.

I couldn’t for the life of me figure out why this company wouldn’t
take a more active role in supporting the OpenJUMP community. I’m not
contributing their own patches, or answering questions on the mailing
lists. Our community is very informal and open, and an organization
could likely have a large influence on the direction the program took
with an investment of some resources.

Is OpenJUMP the only community with these open source lurkers? How
many of these companies do you think there are? (I’m not talking about
one guy who downloads an open source app and uses it. I’m talking
about actual companies with more than one employee.)

Why don’t they get more involved? Are they embarrassed? Do they not
want their competition to find out about the open source program they
are benefiting from? Are they violating the terms of the license and
don’t want to get busted? Do they not understand that their
involvement is a key part of the program’s survival?

This has become an important question for me recently as the active
development of OpenJUMP has slowed. We don’t have any organizations
actively participating in development. (Well, maybe one or two, but
they have been quiet lately.) I’m the only one working on serious
improvements or changes, and not just bug fixes. I would really like
to reach out to these lurkers to get them more involved. Ultimately,
the survival of the project may depend on it.

What do you think? Send an e-mail to the project list with an
invitation to contact me privately about getting more involved? Are
these lurkers worth the time?

Landon

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### Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Patent for feature of paper map.

```You might be surprised what people might be able to get away with,
though. There's been repeated attempts to patent web mapping for
example, and if it wasn't for the efforts of a few dedicated people,
there would now be patents in both Britain and the USA on displaying
maps over the web.  But the threat is not dead yet, believe it or not,
and it may culminate in a battle between Microsoft and Google sometime
in the near future. Check out Daniel Morissette's blog entry for Feb 21,
2009, Microsoft Patents the Map at
http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=68.  If Microsoft really uses the
Multimap patent to put the bite on Google, then you can bet your bippy

If reading that article brings your blood to a righteous boil, and you
want to know more about who really invented web mapping, see Carl Reed's
2004 article,  Intellectual Property, Patents, and Web Mapping:
Historical Perspective at
http://portal.opengeospatial.org/files/?artifact_id=28360.

- Bill Thoen

And I believe there actually was a patent issued for

René A. Enguehard wrote:
I suspect they might be applying for the patent but in for quite a
surprise when it gets rejected. Features for maps would be very tricky
to patent and, more importantly, not in the interest of the general
public. As such the patent applications would probably get rejected.
Would we really want people patenting things like projections, north
arrows, scale bars or legends? I don't think it would be productive
and suspect any patent office in its right mind would see it the same
way.

Patents were created to help people protect their ideas for a length
of time so they could reap the rewards of their work and refine it
without fear of being copied or undercut. This works very well for
many things but fails miserably for conceptual things like maps or
layouts for books or posters. This is why many patent offices now
require people to patent systems rather than things. I don't see
how a wrap-around map could be explained as a system.

René
IANAL

Landon Blake wrote:

The latest issue of the ACSM Bulletin had an interesting article
about a map matrix that wraps around the edge of a paper map. It
seems the company that is using this feature of hard copy map design
is applying for a patent. I didn’t even think you could get a patent
a feature of a paper map. It got me wondering who holds the patent on
the use of a north arrow and scale.

At any rate, here is the article if you are interested in reading it:

http://www.webmazine.org/issues/current/documents/wrap.pdf

I couldn’t find the patent application, or I would have posted a link
to it. Let me know if you have any comments.

Landon

*Warning:
*Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against
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dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is
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### Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Patent for feature of paper map.

```
Christopher Schmidt wrote:

Er, that blog is written by Richard Fairhurst.

Oops! Sorry about that. Too many windows open at the same time, I guess
I lost track. Probably explains the double post too. Thanks for catching
that.

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### [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: [Geodata] GeoNetwork opensource v2.4.0 released

```
Jeroen Ticheler wrote:
We're proud to announce the release of GeoNetwork opensource 2.4.0.
This is a major release for the project.

GeoNetwork opensource ( http://geonetwork-opensource.org ) is a
standards based geospatial catalog application that helps people and
organizations to organize and publish their geospatial data through
the web. It is currently used in numerous Spatial Data Infrastructure
initiatives across the world.

The link to Source Forge just takes me to an empty top-level SF page,
and then when I try to downlaod I get the following error:
Unable to find any mirror information for the
GeoNetwork%20opensource/GeoNetwork%20opensource%202.4.0/geonetwork-install-2.4.0-0.jar

Did I do something wrong or is this an installation malfunction?

Regards,
- Bill Thoen
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### [OSGeo-Discuss] This Thread is Dead (was Re: Comparison between MapServer/OpenLayers and ESRI ArcIMS)

```Message subjects, like diapers, need to be changed once in a while.
Usually for the same reasons, too.

Traian Stanev wrote:

However, they (the US govt.) don’t even need a specific legal
provision to spy on data that is hosted outside the US, and they’ve
been doing that since forever…

;-)

*From:* discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] *On Behalf Of *Richard Desrochers

*Sent:* Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:34 PM
*Subject:* Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Comparison between
MapServer/OpenLayers and ESRI ArcIMS

One thing to consider using a cloud approach with Amazon is the
Under the Patriot Act in the US all data hosted in the US could be
made available to the US government.

Not all corporations are ready to live with that.

Richard

Cloud options are looking interesting.

http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/  Windows, Linux, Solaris options

I imagine ESRI license entanglement with virtual servers could be a
problem. But no problem at all with Open Source GIS stacks. No license
to get tangled with load balancing and auto scaling where servers come
and go as needed. Mostly I've seen small business interest since they
tend to take overhead costs more seriously.

It might be useful to include a Cloud based server solution addendum,
because that would be less optimal for an ESRI vendor and could look
good compared to in-house hardware.

Unfortunately, medium and large organizations seem to have budget
allocations already in place for the big ticket approach. But then in
this economy even that could be changing.

AWS now includes Load Balancing and Auto Scaling options as well as S3
Backup, multiple offsite elastic block store duplication, edge cache,
and elastic IP.

And for the real bleeding edge http://aws.amazon.com/elasticmapreduce/
(Not a selling point to small, medium, or large organizations, unless

rkgeorge

-Original Message-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Jason Birch

Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 5:49 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Comparision between
MapServer/OpenLayers and ESRI ArcIMS

I think that it's generally less fear of the unknown or job security
than it is the cost of adding complexity to what is often an already
over-extended support load.  In many cases it just makes sense to
spend \$1000 for a server OS that doesn't require additional training,
is easy to get qualified techs for, and just works with the existing
systems.  It doesn't matter how easy Linux is; it's one more thing to
keep track of and one more thing to go wrong.

If you want to win the open source battle at small organisations
that don't already have OS operating system tendencies, focus on the
application level where you can make a strong business case on a
open data being more sustainable and less risky.  Personally I think
that an open source or bust attitude is not very pragmatic.  Sell
open source software where it is the best tool for the job, but pick

Jason

-Original Message-
From: Alex Mandel
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 4:25 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Comparision between
MapServer/OpenLayers and ESRI ArcIMS

That would be fear of the unknown(non gui) and job security at work.
Wouldn't want someone else in the org who knows more about running
servers.
Maybe you can get them to throw a bone to demo something on a virtual
machine hosted elsewhere(Amazon) just to show how easy it is.

Welcome to the land of small to medium government agencies, etc.
The best thing here is showing examples from equivalent groups, of
which there are plenty online now.

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Richard Desrochers

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### Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Comparision between MapServer/OpenLayers and ESRI ArcIMS

```Thanks for the help folks, especially to John Callahan. That was the
best description of the problem with the ESRI solution that I've seen to
date.  What they offer may be good or not --I don't have the experience
to argue that point-- but they are even more expensive that I had
imagined. I'm very impressed with ESRI's marketing -- if they can sell
this, they could sell snow to Santa Claus!

Regards,
- Bill Thoen
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### [OSGeo-Discuss] Comparision between MapServer/OpenLayers and ESRI ArcIMS

```I need to make a case for developing a map and data server using Open
Source software such as MapServer, Open Layers, PostgereSQL/PostGIS to
counter a proposal to go with ESRI's solutions. The client who this
would be directed to manages a lot of land parcels on which some
development is planned. As part of the support for this, the object is
to build an Internet-accessible server that maintains about 800Gb of
spatial and tabular data, that can provide interactive maps of the
AutoCAD and other formats. It also needs to generate 3D surfaces from
dense LiDAR data that's available. It also needs a database cataloging
system that can be searched for data held in the system. Finally, it
needs to provide different access privileges to various personnel who
will be using restricted data sets.

So what I need are some *current* facts about what packages are needed
to do this completely with ESRI software and what it will cost. Have
any  of you had to address this 800-lb gorilla problem recently and do
you have any advice or facts I can use? I have to  present my case to
people who don't know much about GIS so I think price  is going to be my
best argument. So far, all I've been able to ascertain  is that an
Internet license for ArcIMS costs about \$9 - \$10K per dual  core machine
per year. Is that true? And don't you also need ArcSDE for the  database
connection, and some Arc3D for surface generation from LiDAR  and copies
ArcIMS? What functionality comes out-of-the-box with ESRI's tools that
meets what I've listed above? Is there something in the ESRI stable that
can maintain differential, password-protected user access? How much
would still have to be developed? And what about training and staff to
maintain the system? What's that cost?

If anyone has answers to any of these questions I'd be grateful if you
could give me some facts. As it stands I can put those questions out for
consideration, but I'd like to know the answers too.

Thanks,
- Bill Thoen
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