[OSGeo-Discuss] who's involved with climate change planning?

2019-09-26 Thread Miles Fidelman

Hi Folks,

It keeps occurring to me that climate change requires a response that 
mirrors the way we now respond to natural disasters - volunteers coming 
together, self-organizing, getting to work.  We simply don't build 
infrastructure from the top down anymore.


And it occurs to me that folks who have been involved in crisis mapping, 
disaster response, and things like local "open planning" are key to all 
of this.


As I try to get something going in my town, and region, I'm kind of 
wondering who else is doing such things - be it serving on local 
planning boards, organizing working groups to, you know, build stuff 
rather than simply march in the streets.


I'll start:

- years ago, our then non-profit (The Center for Civic Networking), 
among others - helped organize the "Sustainable Cambridge (MA) 
Coalition" - starting around a kitchen table, it led to a series of 
town-meeting like visioning exercises, changes to the City's master 
plan, line items in the Community Development Block Grant submission, 
and city staff dedicated to sustainability.  Since then, the City, MIT, 
Harvard, and a bunch of other big players, have organized the "Cambridge 
Compact for a Sustainable Future" - who are collaborating (loosely) to 
plan & implement things like carbon-neutral programs, and climate 
resiliency efforts.


- we were also involved in building a Community of Interest around 
municipal telecommunications (rights of way, city-wide enterprise nets, 
municipal broadband) - mostly an online journal, an email list, lots of 
speaking & writing engagements, some consulting - a lot of which led to 
communities organizing municipal broadband projects - typically starting 
with a working group drawn from municipal staff & the local business 
community


- more recently, I spent some time in the GIS & transit arenas - which 
overlapped with crisis mapping, and geospatial information sharing


- now, I'm trying to engage with our town planning department, and those 
in our neighboring communities - as well as larger condo associations & 
building owners - to pull something together (I think of Greta 
Thurnberg, and the Sunrise Movement as akin to the Sons of Liberty - 
putting out the cry; now it's time to stock armories, raise militias, 
and go to "climate war."  You know, like Team Rubicon, except 
pro-active.)  And, maybe, just maybe, do some broader community 
building, and networking, with folks in other communities (a COI for 
local groups like Team Rubicon - for mutual support, information 
exchange, collaboration).


Anyway - it seems like this might be a place to start talking.

So.. anybody out there doing anything interesting that relates? Any 
suggestions on other currently active communities to plant some seeds in?


Cheers,

Miles Fidelman

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.   Yogi Berra

Theory is when you know everything but nothing works.
Practice is when everything works but no one knows why.
In our lab, theory and practice are combined:
nothing works and no one knows why.  ... unknown

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

[OSGeo-Discuss] today's xkcd

2018-08-07 Thread Miles Fidelman

... is just so relevant:

https://xkcd.com/2029/

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.   Yogi Berra

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Dealing with proprietary data using OSS tools.

2018-03-21 Thread Miles Fidelman
Ok.  But, and this may be a dumb question, it's a very fancy, expensive 
looking camera - one presumes that the person taking the pictures has 
the software that goes with it.  Can one not ask the person providing 
the imagery to convert the raw files to a more usable format?


Miles Fidelman


On 3/21/18 8:03 PM, Tim Uckun wrote:
They don't list prices for their software and there are no downloads. 
I am guessing they charge for the software and knowing this company 
it's not going to be cheap.



On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 12:28 PM, Miles Fidelman 
<mfidel...@meetinghouse.net <mailto:mfidel...@meetinghouse.net>> wrote:


According to the camera's data sheet, their FramePro software will
take the proprietary format and output "Distortion-free, 8 and
16-bit JPEG, TIFF and BSQ images with RGB, RGBN, NRG, NIR and NDVI
band combinations"

It doesn't really seem unreasonable for a camera to use a
proprietary internal format, as long as they provide software to
convert it to standard formats. Particularly if it's a camera with
some special sensor characteristics.

The real question is whether they provide their software with the
camera, or whether you have to pay beaucoup bucks for it.

Miles Fidelman



On 3/21/18 7:13 PM, Tim Uckun wrote:

I just upgraded but no luck with this file. Leica still sells
this camera so they have no incentive to open up their formats.
You can only process this file with their software apparently.



On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 4:28 AM, Newcomb, Doug
<doug_newc...@fws.gov <mailto:doug_newc...@fws.gov>> wrote:

Tim,
A new version of Rawtherapee came out today,  Also,
http://rawpedia.rawtherapee.com/Adding_Support_for_New_Raw_Formats
<http://rawpedia.rawtherapee.com/Adding_Support_for_New_Raw_Formats>


Doug

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 8:18 AM, Tim Uckun
<timuc...@gmail.com <mailto:timuc...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Yea that was one of the first ones I tried. It looks like
this raw file is proprietary so nothing is going to open it.

On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 12:57 AM, Newcomb, Doug
<doug_newc...@fws.gov <mailto:doug_newc...@fws.gov>> wrote:

Have you looked at darktable ,
https://www.darktable.org/? It works with a lot of
Raw image formats.  Not sure if it will handle any
georeferencing information that might be associated
with the image.

Doug

On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:02 PM, Tim Uckun
<timuc...@gmail.com <mailto:timuc...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi All.

I am trying to deal with output from a Leica
RCD30 camera used in Aerial surveying. The camera
outputs .RAW files but these files are not
recognized by any of the tools I have used so
far. Oddly enough they actually have tiff headers
but renaming them to .tiff doesn't work either.

If anybody has any experience decoding these
files and turning them into geotiffs I would
appreciate it if they dropped me a line.

Thanks in advance.



___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
<mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org>
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
<https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss>




-- 
Doug Newcomb

USFWS
551F Pylon Dr

<https://maps.google.com/?q=551F+Pylon+Dr+Raleigh,+NC=gmail=g>
Raleigh, NC

<https://maps.google.com/?q=551F+Pylon+Dr+Raleigh,+NC=gmail=g>
919-856-4520 ext. 14 doug_newc...@fws.gov
<mailto:doug_newc...@fws.gov>

-

*/NOTE: This email correspondence and any attachments
to and from this sender is subject to the Freedom of
Information Act (FOIA) and may be disclosed to third
parties./*​





-- 
Doug Newcomb

USFWS
551F Pylon Dr

<https://maps.google.com/?q=551F+Pylon+Dr+Raleigh,+NC=gmail=g>
Raleigh, NC

<https://maps.google.com/?q=551F+Pylon+Dr+Raleigh,+NC=gmail=g>
919-856-4520 ext. 14 doug_newc...@fws.gov
<mailto:doug_newc...@fws.gov>


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Dealing with proprietary data using OSS tools.

2018-03-21 Thread Miles Fidelman
According to the camera's data sheet, their FramePro software will take 
the proprietary format and output "Distortion-free, 8 and 16-bit JPEG, 
TIFF and BSQ images with RGB, RGBN, NRG, NIR and NDVI band combinations"


It doesn't really seem unreasonable for a camera to use a proprietary 
internal format, as long as they provide software to convert it to 
standard formats.  Particularly if it's a camera with some special 
sensor characteristics.


The real question is whether they provide their software with the 
camera, or whether you have to pay beaucoup bucks for it.


Miles Fidelman



On 3/21/18 7:13 PM, Tim Uckun wrote:
I just upgraded but no luck with this file. Leica still sells this 
camera so they have no incentive to open up their formats. You can 
only process this file with their software apparently.




On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 4:28 AM, Newcomb, Doug <doug_newc...@fws.gov 
<mailto:doug_newc...@fws.gov>> wrote:


Tim,
A new version of Rawtherapee came out today,  Also,
http://rawpedia.rawtherapee.com/Adding_Support_for_New_Raw_Formats
<http://rawpedia.rawtherapee.com/Adding_Support_for_New_Raw_Formats>

Doug

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 8:18 AM, Tim Uckun <timuc...@gmail.com
<mailto:timuc...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Yea that was one of the first ones I tried. It looks like this
raw file is proprietary so nothing is going to open it.

On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 12:57 AM, Newcomb, Doug
<doug_newc...@fws.gov <mailto:doug_newc...@fws.gov>> wrote:

Have you looked at darktable , https://www.darktable.org/?
It works with a lot of Raw image formats.  Not sure if it
will handle any georeferencing information that might be
associated with the image.

Doug

On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:02 PM, Tim Uckun
<timuc...@gmail.com <mailto:timuc...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi All.

I am trying to deal with output from a Leica RCD30
camera used in Aerial surveying. The camera outputs
.RAW files but these files are not recognized by any
of the tools I have used so far. Oddly enough they
actually have tiff headers but renaming them to .tiff
doesn't work either.

If anybody has any experience decoding these files and
turning them into geotiffs I would appreciate it if
they dropped me a line.

Thanks in advance.



___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org>
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
<https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss>




-- 
Doug Newcomb

USFWS
551F Pylon Dr

<https://maps.google.com/?q=551F+Pylon+Dr+Raleigh,+NC=gmail=g>
Raleigh, NC

<https://maps.google.com/?q=551F+Pylon+Dr+Raleigh,+NC=gmail=g>
919-856-4520 ext. 14 doug_newc...@fws.gov
<mailto:doug_newc...@fws.gov>

-

*/NOTE: This email correspondence and any attachments to
and from this sender is subject to the Freedom of
Information Act (FOIA) and may be disclosed to third
parties./*​





-- 
Doug Newcomb

USFWS
551F Pylon Dr
<https://maps.google.com/?q=551F+Pylon+Dr+Raleigh,+NC=gmail=g>
Raleigh, NC
<https://maps.google.com/?q=551F+Pylon+Dr+Raleigh,+NC=gmail=g>
919-856-4520 ext. 14 doug_newc...@fws.gov
<mailto:doug_newc...@fws.gov>

-

*/NOTE: This email correspondence and any attachments to and from
this sender is subject to the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA)
and may be disclosed to third parties./*​




___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.   Yogi Berra

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Marketing] Proprietary GIS on our OSGeo website

2017-09-20 Thread Miles Fidelman

Jody,

This is a very good point.

(comments continue below...)

On 9/20/17 1:19 PM, Jody Garnett wrote:
On 20 September 2017 at 12:44, Maria Antonia Brovelli 
<maria.brove...@polimi.it <mailto:maria.brove...@polimi.it>> wrote:


Jody this is not respectful of me and the community.  Might I know
why the people working for the project want ABSOLUTELY to keep the
names and links to proprietary software on our open source
software website?


I feel a bit of pressure to express myself exactly correctly on this 
outreach topic; or risk people missing the point ...  The outreach 
approach was determined months ago when going over our target audience 
(literally what the website is for). Te website was defined with these 
visitor journey's in mind...


The primary audience for the website is non-community members:
- ESRI GIS Professional (GISP), IT Professionals, Academic Faculty, 
Academic Students, Science and Research, Influencers & Decision 
makers, Software Developers
- the communication goal is to promote awareness - asking 
non-community members to consider and evaluate
- the next goal is adoption - assisting non-community members in 
adopting open source
- the final foal is impress - having non-community members be 
enthusiastic and advocate open source


The secondary audience is community members:
- osgeo members, partners, service providers, sponsors, contributors
- the steps awarness, adoption, impress reflect contributing to open 
source
- many of the community member activities are taking place on the wiki 
and are happy to remain there.




When talking to the broader GIS community, it's important to keep in 
mind two things:


- most GIS users are more familiar with ESRI & Google tools

- most of what passes for standards are either defacto (ESRI & Google 
formats & APIs), or developed by OGC - which is an industry consortium


- lots of folks utilize a combination of tools - some open source, some 
not (e.g., folks who use MapServer to serve databases maintained on ArcGIS).


Taken together, if the intent of the site is to educate & support GIS 
users, and promote open source geo tools - then the site really has to 
address compatibility, and hybrid environments.  Links to commercial 
equivalents - perhaps with reviews and comparisons - provides a lot of 
value (e.g., when trying to figure out how to use OpenLayers to view 
layers that come from a mix of ESRI, Google, and OGC-compliant sources.


Miles Fidelman



--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.   Yogi Berra

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

[OSGeo-Discuss] ancient Roman maps

2015-02-22 Thread Miles Fidelman

Figured folks here might enjoy this

Just came back from a vacation in Italy.  Turns out that the Vatican 
Museum has this incredible collection of (paintings of) maps - mostly 
using data collected by Roman soldiers - and they turn out to be 
relatively accurate.  Some photos at 
https://plus.google.com/photos/115992823058286949429/albums/6118751220833900065


Miles Fidelman

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.    Yogi Berra

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Inaugural webinar of ”Open Geospatial Science Applications” webinar series on 18th October

2013-10-18 Thread Miles Fidelman

Lluís Vicens wrote:

On 18/10/13 15:05, Norman Vine wrote:


On Oct 18, 2013, at 8:57 AM, Margherita Di Leo 
dileomargher...@gmail.com mailto:dileomargher...@gmail.com wrote:



Hi!

looks like the system requirements for the platform chosen for the 
webinar do not support Linux.. I just received the confirmation 
email with the specs. I mean, are you kidding?




Work-arounds (or lack thereof) aside - the are you kidding comment 
still applies.  Just as a not, webex DOES support Linux.


This is absurd.

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.    Yogi Berra

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Would you be concerned if the GeoServices REST API became an OGC standard?

2013-05-04 Thread Miles Fidelman

TC Haddad wrote:


-

To elaborate on the unequal footing phrase above:

One additional aspect of the government side of this equation is that 
for several years there has been a trend (similar to Microsoft 
products) in getting the ESRI architecture adopted as a GIS software 
standard within government IT enterprise contexts. This then requires 
agencies to transition to use of the ESRI platform exclusively for 
geospatial work.


Projecting into the future, if there were 2 competing OGC service 
types and ESRI were to drop support for the older W*S family of OGC 
services (or merely push support for them out of the core packages and 
into an expensive interoperability add-on), this would place many 
agencies in a situation of only being able to serve the newer 
standards, effectively killing the older standards within those 
contexts...


Of course, isn't it funny, that it's getting harder and harder to find 
ESRI stuff anywhere, government or not.  Lot's of enterprise Google 
Earth, and Google Maps Engine though.


Of note: I recently moved from the DoD world to the transit world. I 
expected to find a lot of fleet management software built on top of ESRI 
tracking server.  Nope, everything uses Google Maps.  Even the aircraft 
tracking stuff that used to run on ESRI seems all to be Google based 
these days.


Miles Fidelman



--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.    Yogi Berra

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


[OSGeo-Discuss] Update: Who's interested in project management collaboration tools?

2012-08-10 Thread Miles Fidelman

Thanks to all who've sent me comments!

The new, and hopefully improved Kickstarter page and video are now up at:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1947703258/smart-notebooks-keeping-on-the-same-page-across-th

Take a look!  Comments welcome.  So are donations, likes, tweets, diggs, 
+1s, re-distribution, blog posts, and any other visibility!  And... if 
you happen to have a large, distributed project coming up - a 
conference, event, crowd sourcing effort, flash performance, disaster 
response exercise that just begs for a collaboration support tool - 
let's talk!


Best,

Miles




--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.    Yogi Berra

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [CrisisCommons] Re: [CrisisMappers] Re: Who's interested in collaboration project management tools? And...

2012-08-06 Thread Miles Fidelman

Pat Tressel wrote:

Miles --

this project stems from some work on tools for mission planning
and coordination that seem to have applicability for crisis
management and more general project management.


If you're heading in the direction of more general crisis / project 
management, why not -- rather than starting from scratch -- join up 
with an existing project, and customize / develop that?  Have a look 
at Sahana Eden for instance


Sahana Eden looks like yet another server-based system.  I'm very 
specifically focused on building a highly decentralized, peer-to-peer 
system.  The project is motivated by needs and experience in 
environments where connectivity is intermittent at best.




--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.    Yogi Berra

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [CrisisMappers] Re: Who's interested in collaboration project management tools? And...

2012-08-05 Thread Miles Fidelman

Hi Lee,

Lee Sanders wrote:

Greeting Miles:

First, I lived in Newton for a few years. Went to BC.  Small World.

Yes it is :-)



I have been involved in project management for several years prior to 
returning to school and new vocation in GIS.  As a result, I thought I 
would offer some comments.


1. *_Know your audience._*  - You are talking about organization and 
simplicity however, when I arrived at the page and clicked the video, 
the presentation is extremely cluttered with the graphics and 
different fonts, bulleted  and non-bulleted points overlayed on more 
graphics.  Take a look at the page the begins with Pages that chat w/ 
each other

snip

Thank you very much for your comments on the video and kickstarter pages 
- I'm slowly updating the page as comments come in.


But... that doesn't quite address the more fundamental problem I'm 
having - figuring out where to find people who are interested in project 
management tools, and motivating folks to come take a look at the 
Kickstarter page.  Cleaning up the Kickstarter material won't help much 
if nobody is coming to look at it.  (I'm actually getting positive as 
well as negative comments about the page, and 5% strikes me as a 
reasonable take rate - if I had 10s of thousands of people visiting 
the page, instead of what looks like under a 1000).


Hence, my core questions come back to:
- where do I find people who, like you, have been involved in project 
management for several years

- what really will motivate someone to go that next step and click through

Re.


The question:  Who is your target market.  Choose and then carve your 
message accordingly. You've got orchestras and singers mixed in with 
military.  Those audiences are different.  Additionally, you should 
eliminate the military.  To have software applications used by the 
military requires a different process of marketing and approval for 
security reasons.  And you would have to go through the bid process 
and be approved as a vendor with a background check etc etc.


Actually, I've spent a good part of my career working on military 
projects, and this project stems from some work on tools for mission 
planning and coordination that seem to have applicability for crisis 
management and more general project management.


Best,

Miles

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.    Yogi Berra

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


[OSGeo-Discuss] Who's interested in collaboration project management tools? And...

2012-08-04 Thread Miles Fidelman

 where are they and how do I get their attention?

Hi Folks,

A lot of folks us in the GIS arena are involved in lots of forms of 
collaborative projects, involving virtual teams.  So I wonder if some of 
you might have an opinion to offer on this.


I've been working on some open source software to support virtual teams
and projects - putting some of the experiences and techniques I've
acquired over the years into code - and I'm trying to gather some
support via Kickstarter.

The thing is, I'm having a very hard time getting people to even visit
the project's web page - so far, only about 300 people have visited the
Kickstarter page, despite some serious attempts to spread the word
across various email lists, twitter, and so forth.

It's one thing if people were looking at the page and not contributing,
but I can't even seem to get people's attention - which suggestions one
or more of four things:

- nobody cares about project management (I hope this isn't the case - I
know administrivia isn't sexy, but an awful lot of people are working on
an awful lot of projects, and getting buried in mountains of paper,
email, phone calls, texts, meetings, and yellow stickies.  I sure know
that I'm always looking for ways to declutter that side of my life)

- I'm not reaching people who care.

- I'm reaching people, but not getting their attention.

- I'm reaching people, getting their attention, but not providing enough
motivation to go the next step and click their mouse (on

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1947703258/smart-notebooks-keeping-on-the-same-page-across-th 



So... I'd really welcome any feedback on the questions who cares about
project management  collaboration tools, how to reach them, and what
might motivate them enough to take a look at what I'm doing?

Thanks very much,

Miles Fidelman

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.    Yogi Berra

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


[OSGeo-Discuss] Crowd Coordination Project (Kickstarter)

2012-08-01 Thread Miles Fidelman

Hi Folks,

If you're organizing a crowd mapping or similar project, I just launched 
a Kickstarter  project that might be of interest.
The short form is smart documents, running in browsers as webapps, 
that talk to each other via P2P protocols - as a tool for keeping 
virtual teams and projects on the same page. The project originated 
with some work on military mission planning and management, with an eye 
toward crisis management and project management applications.



I encourage you to take a look at
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1947703258/smart-notebooks-keeping-on-the-same-page-across-th 


and if you're so moved, get on board.

A bit more background:

For about 40 years my thing has always been the theory and practice of
using the Internet to support virtual organizations. I've scratched this
itch by working on everything from C2 systems and distributed
simulation, to electronic town meetings, online rulemakings, and 
webmarkets.


I've continued to find that the simplest tools seem to be the most
effective - particularly email lists, and various forms of
shared/synchronized documents, both on paper (musical scores, theatrical
scripts) and electronic (RFCs, linked spreadsheets, military mission
orders distributed by email).

This project represents a distillation of a lot of ideas about how to
support virtual projects and teams with smart documents.  It started
out as some funded work on smart op orders that I'm trying to
generalize as an open source tools.  I'm nominally calling them smart
notebooks - and the core idea is keeping people on the same page,
across the net.

Think of a composer, writing some music, then handing out pages to
orchestra members, then telling people to mark up their pages - then
think about writing in a web browser, distributing by email, and linking
the pages so markups propagate automatically.  Functionally, I've been
thinking of the tool as a cross between a DayRunner on steroids, and
HyperCard, retooled for groups, running in a browser. No new tools to
install, no fancy groupware running in the cloud - just web apps
executing locally, email, and a P2P protocol.

If you can help spread the word - by
reposting/retweeting/slashdotting/putting and so forth - that would
really be helpful.  If you know anybody at Wired or Gizmodo, that would
also be helpful (seems like coverage by one of those is a really good
vehicle to successful Kickstarter funding).

If you have a project coming up that needs tools for supporting a
distributed effort - say a large crowdsourcing project, or organizing a
large event - I'm looking for scenarios to support - particuarly if
you're funded

And there's a 30-day clock running, so sooner is better!

Thank you very much for any support you might offer,

Miles Fidelman

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.    Yogi Berra

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


[OSGeo-Discuss] map of back bay fire impacts?

2012-03-14 Thread Miles Fidelman
So.. anybody know of any good maps of what's been going on in Boston's 
Back Bay?


Miles Fidelman

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.    Yogi Berra


___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open source for local government resources

2011-01-27 Thread Miles Fidelman

Charlie Schweik wrote:

OSGeo colleagues,

A colleague of mine is publishing an article in Government Technology 
Magazine. At the end of the article he wants to list some good 
resources that local governments might turn to if they were 
considering open source. I'd like to build such a list. This doesn't 
have to be OS Geo in particular. It could be just on open source in 
general.


If anyone has links to good content that would inform local gov 
decision-makers, can you send to me? I'll compile and send out what I 
learn or perhaps will make a wiki page for us with that content.
The obvious starting place is Open Source for America: 
http://opensourceforamerica.org/ (mostly a Federal focus)

for Defense: mil-oss.org
the GOSCON conference, which we all know about: gocon.org
Oregon State Open Source Lab (and particularly see their sponsor list): 
http://osuosl.org
Redhat has a page on State  Local Government use of Linux at 
http://www.redhat.com/solutions/government/state/ - with some links to 
resources and case studies


Miles Fidelman, Principal
Protocol Technologies Group

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
Infnord  practice, there is.    Yogi Berra


___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] are there any unpaid developers?

2010-04-20 Thread Miles Fidelman

Mark Lucas wrote:

I think that most of the developers that actively contribute to the OSSIM 
project are funded through government contracts.  Having said that, most all of 
them contribute well beyond the time they are paid for.  Often that is to move 
the baseline towards capabilities that are not covered by customer 
requirements.  I spend most all of my time securing contracts so we can expand 
the team.

The core team has worked together over the last decade as the individual 
contributors have switched companies several times.
   
This seems fairly typical of successful open source projects - an 
initial period where work is funded by a research grant or an internal 
requirement, evolving into a core team where employers fund time for 
various business purposes, with support broadening over time (e.g., 
writing books, consulting, etc.).


I can't think of any successful (wide adoption, long-term 
sustainability) open source projects that are pure labors of love.


Miles Fidelman

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
Infnord  practice, there is.    Yogi Berra


___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G Hosting Solutions

2010-02-08 Thread Miles Fidelman
There are LOTS of hosting companies out there, ranging from Amazon and 
Google cloud services (as well as various other smaller vendors), folks 
who sell virtual slices of machines, generic hosting on a shared 
machine, dedicated servers, rack space for your own hardware, and 
various combinations.


Cloud solutions give you a lot of flexibility, but you have cost 
exposure based on usage.


The low-end shared hosting solutions are reliable (redundant hardware, 
backup, etc.), but you're generally don't have root access and you'll 
have trouble installing your stuff.


Personally, I wouldn't adequate performance from a visualized or 
low-cost shared solution (hundreds of users per machine).  Which leads 
to two main options:
i. controlled sharing (e.g., a zone on a shared machine, where there are 
limits to how many users on the machine)
ii. a dedicated server - be it owned by the provider or leased/provided 
by you


Budget effects your choices a lot:

- the $10/month services - be they cloud or commercial, probably don't 
offer the performance you need, and you'll have trouble installing the 
software


- $50-100/month can get you service from a variety of smaller players 
who offer unix shell accounts - the cast of characters changes, so some 
googling and looking at web hosting forums is a good idea


- $100-200/month can get you a low-end leased server from quite a few 
people - again google and web hosting forums are your friend - one 
interesting option might be the growing number of places that provide 
dedicated hosting on Mac minis - some let you ship them a pre-configured 
machine and they stick it on a shelf, others will lease you a machine 
and keep its software up-to-date - not a bad solution for medium traffic 
volume


- $300/month and up will buy you rackspace, connectivity, access to your 
hardware, and someone who can monitor and restart your machine if it crashes


In all cases, you need to think about backup costs - be it extra 
hardware or an online backup service.  Most providers offer a backup 
service, but they're not that cheap.


You can probably start by looking at rackspace.com - they're pretty 
reliable and offer a wide range of options, but they're not cheap.  You 
can probably get comparable service for 60% of rackspace's price by 
doing some serious shopping.


As one data point:  I maintain two dedicated servers as a holdover from 
a small web development and hosting business I used to run.  These days 
I primarily support a bunch of medium volume private email lists, along 
with archives - I expect the traffic volume is similar to hosting a few 
geodatabases (though cpu load is probably lower - not a lot of database 
operations).  Costs:
- 4U of rackspace + 1Mbps of continuous traffic (95th percentile) + 
monitor/restart sys admin support $300/mo. in a local, industrial 
strength data center (multiple backbones, redundant power with generator 
backup, 24/7 staffing and access, etc.)

- 2 dedicated servers with lots of RAIDed disk - about $3000 of investment

A few scoping questions that might guide your thinking, or allow some of 
us to steer you in a more specific direction:


- what's the general application (internal use, a small number of 
external customers, a revenue generating commercial service, ...)

- how big is your dataset
- what kind of traffic volume are you expecting
- what kind of reliability do you require
- what are your peak load and scaling considerations
- what level of sys admin support are you looking for
- if you're looking toward eventual dedicated solutions, are you going 
to maintain your o/s, are you going to need physical access to hardware 
(note that it's pretty hard to do o/s installs without physical access 
to the CD slot and the terminal slot)

- where are you located
- what's your budget

Hope this helps,

Miles

Kumaran Narayanaswamy wrote:


No, we are  looking for shared as well a dedicated hosting solutions


On 2/7/2010 10:12 PM, Kumaran Narayanaswamy wrote:

Hello,

We are in the process of looking out for a best hosting provider to 
host the FOSS4G Web applications. Can anyone suggest us the best and 
affordable hosting solutions to deploy MapServer, GeoServer applications?





--
Miles R. Fidelman, Director of Government Programs
Traverse Technologies
145 Tremont Street, 3rd Floor
Boston, MA  02111
mfidel...@traversetechnologies.com
857-362-8314
www.traversetechnologies.com

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Question about FOSS4G Business Models

2009-11-26 Thread Miles Fidelman

daniele.ocu ocu wrote:

Dear all,

Thank you very much for your comments and suggestions on reading 
material about business and FOSS4G.


The idea for this report would be a summary with metrics showing how 
companies have changed after adopting FOSS4G. It would be a document 
to present why adopting open source can be interesting for a company.
Again, with all due respect, I have to suggest that adopting open 
source is such a broad term as to be essentially meaningless.


A company can:

- adopt a specific piece of open source technology, as the result of a 
make/buy analysis for a specific software requirement (MySQL vs. 
PostGres vs. roll-your-own) - where all the standard metrics of purchase 
cost, maintenance cost, life-cycle cost apply


- incorporate a piece of open source code into a product

- develop a piece of software for internal use and then release it as 
open source as a way to reduce support costs


- develop a software product and release it under an open source license 
and/or a dual license model, as part of a specific business strategy


- develop a general open source model for internal use of software

- develop a general open source model for a software business

- etc., etc., etc.

What problem are you trying to solve?

--
Miles R. Fidelman, Director of Government Programs
Traverse Technologies 
145 Tremont Street, 3rd Floor

Boston, MA  02111
mfidel...@traversetechnologies.com
857-362-8314
www.traversetechnologies.com

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Question about FOSS4G Business Models

2009-11-25 Thread Miles Fidelman
Venkatesh Raghavan wrote:
 I think what Daniele is looking for is some kind of
 a How to convince a venture (or social) captitalist
 to invest in FOSS4G technnologies and/or companies.
 Guess the venture capitalist would be inerested to
 see some statistical data on how FOSS4G based companies
 are growing elsewhere and what are their core business
 stratagies.
   
I just went back and re-read Daniele's initial post, and now realize
that it's not
entirely clear what Daniele was asking for. So.

Daniele,

When you said convince his company management and finances to invest in
FOSS4G technologies over the next 5 years. The company presently does a
small part of
its business using FOSS4G tools but is wondering if it should take
a deeper plunge into the FOSS4G world. Does this refer to investing in
FOSS4G tools for:
- internal use
- as part of the toolkit used in company engagements
- as a service offering (e.g., supporting FOSS4G tools)
- as components of systems built for clients
- as products to develop and release/market
- as something else
- as a combination of the above?

A little scoping along these lines would be very useful in providing
input to a document
with concrete data about how companies elsewhere in the world are
profiting, growing,
increasing market share and the kind of clients that they are catering to.

Also... when you say The company also wants to consider marketing broad
based services for SDI - I sort of infer that you're not talking about
Strategic Defense. So...
who are you expanding the acronym?

Finally, when you're done - how about sharing a copy of the resulting
paper, or at least a
version with proprietary information removed?

Cheers,

Miles


-- 
Miles R. Fidelman, Director of Government Programs
Traverse Technologies 
145 Tremont Street, 3rd Floor
Boston, MA  02111
mfidel...@traversetechnologies.com
857-362-8314
www.traversetechnologies.com

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Question about FOSS4G Business Models

2009-11-24 Thread Miles Fidelman
One more reference:

Wikipedia's history of open source
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Source_history) has a pretty good
discussion
of the early days of software development - when pretty much everything
was open source, but the term had
not been coined yet.

Miles

Miles Fidelman wrote:
 Charlie,

 Charlie Schweik wrote:
   
 See
 http://www.umass.edu/opensource/schweik/Chapter_2_schweik_final_draft.pdf

 This book still is being finalized and not yet published. If anyone on
 this list reads this chapter, I'd appreciate any comments you may have.
 If you Daniele, or anyone else uses content from this in some capacity,
 I'd appreciate you contacting me so I can give you information on how to
 cite it.
   
 
 Since you asked :-)

 A few comments:

 1.  I seriously question the characterization of open source as primarily 
 driven by volunteers.  
 History says otherwise.  

 2. I'd look for some better sources re. monitary support for early open 
 source projects.  
 If you look a little harder, you'll find that almost all widely-used open 
 source software
 started with somebody who was working at a job that paid them to write an 
 initial
 code base - be it working on a a government contract or grant, or working on 
 software
 as in internal IT staffer.

 The examples I always point to are:

 - Apache (started as the NCSA web daemon)

 - Unix (it all goes back to Bell Labs, with the BSD variations going back to 
 Berkeley)

 - Sendmail

 - Postgres

 And the list goes on.  (One interesting list of very early projects: 
 http://eu.conecta.it/paper/Some_dates_open_source.html)

 Yes, a sizeable portion of contributors are volunteers - but some historical 
 spelunking quickly points out that most projects
 started with someone who was being paid for their time.  (Richard Stallman 
 might be the exception, though MIT provided
 for his support in various forms).

 3. Historically, the motivations you list as academic and scientific 
 motivation #2 and #3 are the earliest and oldest motivations
 for open source code - dating back to the period when government funded work 
 automatically entered the public domain (thus
 predating the entire notion of open source licenses).  Almost ALL early 
 software was funded by the government (notably
 DARPA and NSF), was shared as academic research, and automatically entered 
 the public domain.

 Hope this is useful,

 Miles Fidelman


   


-- 
Miles R. Fidelman, Director of Government Programs
Traverse Technologies 
145 Tremont Street, 3rd Floor
Boston, MA  02111
mfidel...@traversetechnologies.com
857-362-8314
www.traversetechnologies.com

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] new: OSGeo women mailing list

2009-11-17 Thread Miles Fidelman

Landon Blake wrote:


My main point is that we should encourage more diversity in our 
professions. Software development and land surveying would benefit 
from more women, and nursing would likely benefit from more men. 
(Ironically, I have a good friend that is in school for nursing right 
now, and he is a man.)


 


It's really a thorny problem.

I can't speak much to cultural issues in engineering that might turn off 
women.  Certainly engineering professions are disproportionately 
populated with those of us with crude senses of humor.  On the other 
hand, I've worked with an awful lot of women engineers over the years, 
and the culture didn't seem to bother them (several with pretty crude 
senses of humor of their own).  There's certainly some self-selection 
going on, but that presumably applies to guys as well.


The verdict seems to be out on whether there is selection going on based 
on developmental and/or cognitive differences in male and female 
brains.  Again, though, I've worked with some very competent women 
engineers, and I know lots of guys who can't think logically if their 
life depended on it.


A somewhat clearer issue has to do with preparation for engineering 
school.  A while back, I spent a few years as volunteer educational 
councilor for MIT - alumni who both interview applicants, and who do 
outreach to high school students and guidance councilors.  MIT has had 
female students since almost the beginning, and a pretty high percentage 
of female students and staff, BUT... at least when I was interviewing, 
we kept running into guidance councilors who would steer girls away from 
math and science classes.  At a school with a very stiff math 
requirement for entry, and where almost every incoming student has taken 
a year of calculus in high school, that put a real dent in our ability 
to recruit women.  I expect this situation has gotten better, but then, 
at least in our local school system, there's been a general deemphasis 
on science and engineering in general - somewhat problematic in a suburb 
of Boston with lots of MIT grads (and professors) living here.


Then there's the question of role models, mentors, and such.  Again, I 
expect this has gotten better over the years, but like senior 
management, senior engineering ranks are still populated by a generation 
of largely male engineers.


Whether these are issues that can be addressed at the level of a 
specific project, or group of projects, is unclear.  It would seem more 
an issue for the academic world, professional societies, and groups like 
AMITA (Assoc. of MIT Alumna).


Having said that, I'll pose the question:  How many women are working on 
OSGeo projects?  How many are visible in the profession, and/or in 
academic circles?  Seems to me that the best way to attract more women 
to OSGeo ranks are for the women who are already here to be highly 
visible to their female colleagues.


--
Miles R. Fidelman, Director of Government Programs
Traverse Technologies 
145 Tremont Street, 3rd Floor

Boston, MA  02111
mfidel...@traversetechnologies.com
857-362-8314
www.traversetechnologies.com

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open Location Services

2009-11-03 Thread Miles Fidelman

P Kishor wrote:

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 3:47 AM, Cameron Shorter
cameron.shor...@gmail.com wrote:
  

As you are probably aware, just dumping code into sourceforge is not an
effective way to start a successful Open Source project.



The above makes sense, but honestly, I had never heard of this until
now, and I have been tinkering with open source for almost a decade
now. Most open source projects seemed organic to me. Someone had an
itch, they scratched it, they put it out, and the project either
gathered traction, or it died. Seems like my scholarship of open
source has been lacking in this aspect hugely.
  
Actually, the history of successful open source projects (long-lived, 
widely adopted, well supported by a broad community) is very different 
than having an itch to scratch.


I've seen several major development paths for successful projects:

1. Funded research project that gets widely adopted.  Open sourced as a 
way to maintain availability and support.  Classic example: Apache 
(started as the NCSA web daemon).


2. Variant of the above: Project that starts as a research project ends 
up as a hybrid open-source/commercial enterprise.  Classic examples: 
Sendmail, PostgreSQL.


3. Internally funded project - by a university or corporate team - open 
sourced as a way to reduce support costs and/or widen adoption.  
Generally retains some ties to originators.  Examples:  Sympa (mailing 
list manager funded by a consortium of French universities), Erlang, Zope.


4. The jury is still out on the various projects that have been 
developed for purely commercial reasons, with an open source 
(community) version released as both a way to broaden the market and 
to reduce development/support costs by leveraging outside contributors 
(e.g., OpenSolaris, Aptana Studio, ...).   The virtualization space 
seems to be a place where the uncertainties associated with this model 
are playing out (e.g., would you stake your business on Xen or VirtualBox?).


Not sure how I'd characterize the various BSD unix varients, and Linux 
is a clear outlier - that may well be as close to an itch to scratch 
that succeeded as there is.


What these all have in common is that:

i. somebody and/or some organization had a serious internal reason for 
developing a piece of software, and in almost all cases had a source of 
financial support for the work


ii. there are serious business reasons for open sourcing the code - 
broadening a user base, reducing development and support costs, etc. - 
and serious attention was/is paid to organization and management issues



Miles Fidelman

--
Miles R. Fidelman, Director of Government Programs
Traverse Technologies 
145 Tremont Street, 3rd Floor

Boston, MA  02111
mfidel...@traversetechnologies.com
857-362-8314
www.traversetechnologies.com

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


[OSGeo-Discuss] DoD Open Source memo now on official web site

2009-10-28 Thread Miles Fidelman

Somebody asked, here's where to find it:

http://www.defenselink.mil/cio-nii/sites/oss/

--
Miles R. Fidelman, Director of Government Programs
Traverse Technologies 
145 Tremont Street, 3rd Floor

Boston, MA  02111
mfidel...@traversetechnologies.com
857-362-8314
www.traversetechnologies.com

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] new military OSS policy

2009-10-27 Thread Miles Fidelman
It doesn't seem to be on the OSD web site yet - give it a few days and 
then you'll probably be able to find it somewhere near here:

http://www.defenselink.mil/cio-nii/

Cameron Shorter wrote:

Can someone point at this document on an official website somewhere?
It would be good to link to it from: 
http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Case_Studies#Open_Source_Policies


Miles Fidelman wrote:

... fresh from the OSD e-press



___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss






--
Miles R. Fidelman, Director of Government Programs
Traverse Technologies 
145 Tremont Street, 3rd Floor

Boston, MA  02111
mfidel...@traversetechnologies.com
857-362-8314
www.traversetechnologies.com

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] RE: Insurance for contractors?

2009-09-14 Thread Miles Fidelman

Michael P. Gerlek wrote:

* in the US, sole proprietorship is the way to go for simple one-person, 
garage-based shops

  
Having contracted as both a sole proprietorship and a corporation, I'd 
qualify that one.  Sole proprietorship is easy, but.


- you don't get quite as many tax benefits

- you open yourself up to a lot of personal liability, even with 
insurance - if you have any serious assets (say a house or stock 
portfolio that hasn't completely tanked), putting a corporate shell 
between you and a lawsuit provides some serious protection


- you can simplify some of the paperwork by incorporating as either 
Subchapter S or an LLC


Miles

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Insurance for contractors?

2009-08-31 Thread Miles Fidelman
For what it's worth, I believe IEEE offers a professional liability 
policy to members.  If it's in line with their other insurance, the 
price will be reasonable (I've carried their life insurance for years, 
and their medical policy when I was out on my own for a while).  I 
wouldn't be surprise if ACM has a similar offering.


--
Miles R. Fidelman, Director of Government Programs
Traverse Technologies 
145 Tremont Street, 3rd Floor

Boston, MA  02111
mfidel...@traversetechnologies.com
857-362-8314
www.traversetechnologies.com

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Where are all the FOSS OGC Client implementations?

2009-01-02 Thread Miles Fidelman

There's a pretty good


On Tue, 2008-12-30 at 15:17 +0100, Miguel Montesinos wrote:
  
Yes I mean list FOSS products and which OGC standards they support (and

whether as client or server if applicable).

  
There's a pretty good list of clients, both FOSS and commercial, at 
http://geoserver.org/display/GEOSDOC/Clients


There's another list at 
http://lyceum.massgis.state.ma.us/wiki/doku.php?id=wms:simple_clients



--
Miles R. Fidelman, Director of Government Programs
Traverse Technologies 
145 Tremont Street, 3rd Floor

Boston, MA  02111
mfidel...@traversetechnologies.com
857-362-8314
www.traversetechnologies.com

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open Layers

2008-09-02 Thread Miles Fidelman

Mateusz Loskot wrote:

Bob Pawley wrote:
  

Hi

I am looking at Open Layers to display Postgis data.

I have a couple of questions to start.

- Can Open Layers connect directly to Postgis or does it require other
software?

- Is there documentation that shows how to make the connections and put
the system together??


didn't see any detailed answer to this, so...

I believe that Open Layers needs to talk to a WMS or WFS service, rather 
than directly executing SQL against a datatabase (PostGIS or otherwise).


A pretty standard configuration is to run Geoserver (geoserver.org) w/ 
postgis.  Mapserver (mapserver.gis.umn.edu) might be another option.


--
Miles R. Fidelman, Director of Government Programs
Traverse Technologies 
145 Tremont Street, 3rd Floor

Boston, MA  02111
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
857-362-8314
www.traversetechnologies.com

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Software Language

2008-06-12 Thread Miles Fidelman

Paul Ramsey wrote:

On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 10:32 AM, Landon Blake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  

The reality is that the software world is dominated by the
western world and the English language. (How many programming languages do
you know of that are written in Russian?) :]


There's always APL - not Russian, but then not any other natural language 
either.

--
Miles R. Fidelman, Director of Government Programs
Traverse Technologies 
145 Tremont Street, 3rd Floor

Boston, MA  02111
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
857-362-8314
www.traversetechnologies.com

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Should OSGeo get involved in the Information Architecture realm and nurture the development of definitive spatial ontologies?

2008-05-25 Thread Miles Fidelman

Bruce Bannerman wrote:

We need robust debate on these types of issues if we are to progress
them.

  

Ok.. let's try this :-)

I see that there are two main ways of utilising spatial information:

- producing a pretty picture that helps people understand an issue. We
have a number of types of products that fall in this realm, including
Google Maps, Google Earth, Virtual Earth, Slippy Maps etc.

- as an input into structured analysis that is used as an aid to
answering a particular question and also as an aid to exploring
inter-relationships between spatial, business, scientific data etc. The
output from this analysis could be a 'map', but of equal relevance it
could be in tabular, graphical or textual form. This is the realm of
traditional spatial analysis, image analysis or a range of spatial
products that I like to term 'Spatial Intelligence Frameworks' e.g.
Cohga's Weave, NGIS' GeoSamba, ESRI Australia's Eview. 
  
I don't think this dichotomy holds up under close scrutiny.  I don't see 
that much difference in the cognitive processes or computing tools 
involved in producing a pretty picture that helps people understand an 
issue and structured analysis as an aid to answering a particular 
question or exploring inter-relationships between ... data.  Is not 
structured analysis part of producing any form of useful 
presentation?  In general, it's HARDER to organize and present issues to 
an audience that is not already familiar with the intricacies of an issue.


This implies that one needs more powerful tools, and more flexible data 
representations, to produce pretty pictures than to simply perform a 
specialized analysis.  A specialized analysis is amenable to a 
specialized tool.  The broader the range of analyses one wants to 
perform, and the broader the range of presentations that one might want 
to use to illustrate an issue, the MORE powerful and flexible the tools 
one needs - even more so if one wants to provide interactive 
capabilities to the audience of the pretty picture.


Tools that support breadth, depth, and flexibility, coupled with 
ease-of-use and a touch of elegance, are far harder to build than those 
that support more narrowly scoped problems.  As a simple example: yes 
you can produce pretty pie charts using a drawing program, and you can 
perform incredibly powerful statistical analyses using SPSS or 
Mathematica, but you can address a far larger set of problems using a 
spreadsheet with graphics capabilities, particularly if the spreadsheet 
can tap into SQL databases, and you have a library of specialized macros 
available.



Throw into this the big picture issues that we are facing, e.g. Climate
Change, Water Shortage (in Australia) etc that require analysis at a
continental or global scale and we have a big problem.

How can we as an industry help this work to progress quickly with
minimal impact on the analysis, minimal double handling of data and in
many cases the use of dynamic data from multiple sources?
  

snip

In the end, I suspect that we will need community driven involvement to
get it right. Communities of practice (like the geoscience community)
will need to work together to develop *their* profiles describing
*their* data. 


Is it an OSGeo responsibility? Probably not. I take the point of your
earlier email that OSGeo is predominantly about OS software.
  

snip

When you consider the analysis requirement for spatial data, I suspect
that we as an industry may be heading in the wrong direction. 


Some of the issues that are are attracting a lot of effort are about
simplifying spatial data (GeoRSS, GeoJSON, BXFS etc). These appear to be
about catering to the 'pretty picture' use of spatial information.
  
I'm sort of driven to the opposite conclusion.  The more that data 
profiles are developed by specialized communities, the less likely that 
different data sets will be amenable to combination and correlation to 
support complex, cross-discipline issues such as climate change.


In one direction lies the need for anyone, working on a complicated 
problem, to understand in great detail all the overlapping disciplines 
that might be involved.  In the other direction lies framing higher 
levels of abstraction that allow examination of different types of 
ordering and interactions.


The example that comes to mind is systems engineering (my own 
discipline, as it turns out).  Yes, a systems engineer has to understand 
quite a bit about all the disciplines involved in building a system (or 
these days, a system-of-systems).  If you're building an aircraft, you'd 
better understand a lot about aeronautics, avionics (including hardware, 
real-time software environments, specific algorithms), and so forth.  
But the discipline involves understanding interactions and tradeoffs, at 
a higher level.  It's been a long time since I've written a large 
program, or designed hardware - and I haven't kept up with the 
intricacies of today's development tools - but making 

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] scale of FOSS projects

2008-05-09 Thread Miles Fidelman

Tim Bowden wrote:

On Thu, 2008-05-08 at 21:28 -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote:
  

Michael P. Gerlek wrote:


Or, to quote the IETF, rough consensus and running code.
  
  
Except that the reference is to the informal criteria for when one might 
even beginning to firm up a standard.  In the IETF community - unlike 
pretty much every other standards body on the planet - there's a pretty 
strong insistence that there are multiple implementations of something, 
that  an talk to each other, before even thinking about pinning down 
anything that looks like a standard.



IMHO standards are just a fancy way of documenting the solution.  Until
you've build the solution, you don't understand the problem properly
[1].  If you try and write your standard while your understanding of the
solution space is underdeveloped, you'll end up with a pile of shite.
  
We're in violent agreement here.  Unfortunately, outside the IETF world, 
that's how standards are done - to just the effect you describe. 

But that's really besides the point - which is that that the IETF quote 
does not refer to the subject at hand (the cost/scale of software 
development, the degree to which institutional support is called for, 
and when support is needed) but to a philosophy of when to standardize 
communications protocols.


Miles



--
Miles R. Fidelman, Director of Government Programs
Traverse Technologies 
145 Tremont Street, 3rd Floor

Boston, MA  02111
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
617-395-8254
www.traversetechnologies.com

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] scale of FOSS projects

2008-05-09 Thread Miles Fidelman

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 05:14:40PM -0500, P Kishor wrote:
  

On 5/8/08, Schuyler Erle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 is that the number-one sine-qua-non of *any* potentially successful
 software project is *shipping working code*.
  
 Until a developer does that, the discussion of whether or not his/her

 project needs or deserves institutional/organizational support
  


That is not what this discussion is about, though. (And the point
seems self-evident, given this is a discussion about open source
software projects, defined by having working code in the wild)

  
I would beg to differ.  There's a lot that goes on BEFORE working code 
is released into the wild.  And very often, institutional support is 
what makes it possible to write code and release it into the wild.


In a previous life, I ran a small hosting business, and relied entirely 
on open source code.  With the exception of Linux - admittedly a big 
exception - everything else I was running had institutional origins, 
with significant amounts of funding supporting the original developers.  
Of particular note:


Apache: started as the NCSA daemon, funded largely by NSF (if I recall 
correctly)
Sendmail: derived from ARPANET delivermail, developed in the university 
environment
Sympa: open-source mailing list manager developed/supported by 
consortium of French universities


These days, one of the things I do for a living is pursue government 
funding so that our firm can develop new software.  One of our current 
projects very explicitly commits, contractually, to releasing our 
results under the GPL.  (Historical note: until the late 70s/early 80s, 
work performed with government funding was generally released into the 
public domain - and an awful lot of today's technology base dates back 
to those years.  IMHO, open source licenses are a reaction to the change 
in policy that allows companies to maintain proprietary rights to 
publicly funded  work).


Miles

--
Miles R. Fidelman, Director of Government Programs
Traverse Technologies 
145 Tremont Street, 3rd Floor

Boston, MA  02111
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
617-395-8254
www.traversetechnologies.com

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] scale of FOSS projects

2008-05-09 Thread Miles Fidelman

Frank Warmerdam wrote:

Real artists ship. For everyone else, there is wanking.


For the record, while I acknowledge a kernel of truth in this, I find the
statement so elitist and dismissive of the varied efforts that it 
takes to

make things work that I cringe every time I hear it.

Discussion, conferences, standards, coordination, etc all play an 
important
role in making a software ecosystem useful.  If there is a lesson, it 
may be
that these other things shouldn't become so all consuming that they 
prevent

actually producing useful software.


Well said!

And let me add: lab directors (academic and commercial), proposal 
writers, IT managers who recognize the value of open-sourcing internally 
generated code, research funding agencies (DARPA and NSF program 
managers!) - i.e., those who find ways to pay people's salaries to write 
code - are an important part of the ecosystem.


--
Miles R. Fidelman, Director of Government Programs
Traverse Technologies 
145 Tremont Street, 3rd Floor

Boston, MA  02111
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
617-395-8254
www.traversetechnologies.com

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] scale of FOSS projects

2008-05-08 Thread Miles Fidelman

P Kishor wrote:

On 5/8/08, Schuyler Erle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

One important point that Fogel makes that I think is worth noting here
 is that the number-one sine-qua-non of *any* potentially successful
 software project is *shipping working code*.

 Until a developer does that, the discussion of whether or not his/her
 project needs or deserves institutional/organizational support to
 succeed further is moot.



Steve Coast (OSM) echoed the same sentiment very elegantly -- Real
artists ship. For everyone else, there is wanking.

After a short hesitation, I have really come to appreciate it. Yup,
unless there is working code, everything else -- sponsorships,
organization, standards, committees, mailing lists -- is pointless.
  
Always one to provide a contrarian view, I've always felt that it always 
helps to start with a problem that's worth solving (speaking as an 
engineer), or something interesting to explore (from a scientific point 
of view).  From there, funding, equipment, and a good team of people are 
good next steps.  With rare exception (there are geniuses among us), 
it's pretty hard for one person to accomplish all that much, in a short 
amount of time, in odd hours outside their day job.  At least none of 
the interesting projects I've been involved with required at least 6 
months of full-time work show initial results - not a part-time 
endeavor.  Mind you, I'm a systems engineer and project manager by trade 
- it's been a long time since I've been involved in a project that 
didn't have at least a small team, working a hard problem, over an 
extended amount of time.


Ok, you can shoot at me now :-)

Miles

--
Miles R. Fidelman, Director of Government Programs
Traverse Technologies 
145 Tremont Street, 3rd Floor

Boston, MA  02111
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
617-395-8254
www.traversetechnologies.com

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] scale of FOSS projects

2008-05-08 Thread Miles Fidelman

Michael P. Gerlek wrote:

Or, to quote the IETF, rough consensus and running code.
  
Except that the reference is to the informal criteria for when one might 
even beginning to firm up a standard.  In the IETF community - unlike 
pretty much every other standards body on the planet - there's a pretty 
strong insistence that there are multiple implementations of something, 
that  an talk to each other, before even thinking about pinning down 
anything that looks like a standard.


Pretty much everybody associated with the IETF is funded by nice, large 
government contracts or has nice positions at large corporations, or 
both.  And pretty much all of the early code in and around the Internet 
(and the ARPANET) was written by people with DARPA and NSF grants (when 
they defined the TCP/IP protocol, Bob Kahn was either at BBN, my old 
stomping grounds, or at DARPA, and Vint Cerf was a professor at 
Stanford).  The original reference implementation of TCP/IP - which 
found it's way into an awful lot of different Unix variants - was 
written by folks at BBN, again, funded by DARPA.  Just read through the 
library of RFCs at www.ietf.org and you'll find that most of the authors 
have fairly serious organizational affiliations - they're doing the work 
as part of their day jobs.


Not that I'm complaining, mind you.  Simply pointing out that leading 
edge software tends to be written by folks with solid institutional 
bases, and salaries, supporting them. 


Miles

--
Miles R. Fidelman, Director of Government Programs
Traverse Technologies 
145 Tremont Street, 3rd Floor

Boston, MA  02111
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
617-395-8254
www.traversetechnologies.com

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] scale of FOSS projects

2008-05-07 Thread Miles Fidelman

Howard Butler wrote:


On May 6, 2008, at 3:10 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

In the past i've heard it suggested that really successful open source
projects now need serious organisational backing. They can't be built
by a network of partly-funded enthusiast contributors alone.


I think really successful open source projects are successful because 
of serious organization, not necessarily a fire hose of funding. By 
serious organization, I don't mean a rickety scaffolding of bureaucracy.

snip

I think I've made this comment before, but it probably bears repeating:  
History is a useful indicator.  As far as I can tell, most really 
successful open source projects started out as efforts that had some 
serious funding behind them, or something that allowed the initial 
developer(s) some running room to get a project started.


The examples of really successful open source projects that come to mind:

Sendmail: University based, lots of RD funding.  Eventually led to a 
private company that maintains the open source version and provides 
commercial versions.  Arguably the most successful open source project ever.


Apache: Started as the NCSA web daemon, lots of government RD funding.  
It has already been widely distributed and adopted by the time it 
stopped being research.  Adopted by key members of its user community.  
A good competitor for the most successful open source project ever.


Linux: Started as a thesis project.  Filled a critical niche (free 
alternative to Unix) - though it's still unclear why the BSD variants 
didn't end up dominating this niche.


GNU tools: Stallman, and a cast of thousands - with MIT providing a home.

Sympa (mailing list manager):  Still largely funded by a consortium of 
French universities.


And from the geospatial domain, GRASS:  Originally developed by the US Army.

At the moment, I can't think of any really successful open source 
projects that didn't have their origins with a network of 
partly-funded enthusiast contributors where the originator didn't have 
some form of organizational home and/or a funding stream for the first 
few releases of the software.


Now, if anybody has a good example of a more grass roots project that 
has survived - please, some examples would be a great contribution to 
this discussion.


Miles


--
Miles R. Fidelman, Director of Government Programs
Traverse Technologies 
145 Tremont Street, 3rd Floor

Boston, MA  02111
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
617-395-8254
www.traversetechnologies.com

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Your open source career

2008-05-05 Thread Miles Fidelman

Landon Blake wrote:

The lack of good user documentation is a weakness of many open source
projects. The problem is that most of us like to code, but few of us
like to write! It is something that needs to be addressed, although I am
unsure of the solution. Maybe we need to invent an IDE for user
documentation. :]
  
It sort of depends.  One of the few ways open source developers get PAID 
for their work (unless their day job pays for their open source 
endeavors) is to write books about their software.  Hence the plethora 
of books about Apache, various Linux and BSD varieties, and so forth - 
written by the major developers thereof.


What, you expect high quality software, with high quality documentation, 
and support - with nobody getting paid anywhere along the line?


--
Miles R. Fidelman, Director of Government Programs
Traverse Technologies 
145 Tremont Street, 3rd Floor

Boston, MA  02111
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
617-395-8254
www.traversetechnologies.com

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss