Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

[David William Bitner]

Big +1

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 11:16 AM, Paul Ramsey 
wrote:

> Agree w/ Daniel in all ways. We want our events to succeed, no? So we
> use marketing techniques to do so. Emails and so on. And we track who
> opens them so we can get better at marketing. Like any other business
> trying to succeed. Mail chimp is currently convenient, in the past
> other technologies were convenient (I spammed people in 2007 using a
> custom perl script, because I am a God Among Men), in the future
> different technologies will be convenient. But they are all going
> towards making a good event.
>
> Naturally the first targets of marketing the event will be people who
> have attended past events under the same/similar umbrella. I provided
> the 2007 attendance list to foss4g events for a number of years until
> it had grown entirely stale. I felt good about it. I revelled in the
> goodness of it.
>
> I have spammed. I will spam again, in the service of a good cause.
> That is my weakness. That is my strength.
>
> P.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 7:20 AM, Daniel Morissette
>  wrote:
> > On 2015-12-16 10:00 AM, Venkatesh Raghavan wrote:
> >>
> >> On 2015/12/16 18:37, Pat Tressel wrote:
> >>>
> >>> MailChimp is a very popular product. If you have a provable accusation
> >>> against them -- that they were acting **independently of the account
> >>> administrator** to alter lists, then that would be significant. As Rob
> >>> has stated, MailChimp did not do something by itself. The list was
> >>> aggregated from previous lists and events in which people participated.
> >>
> >>
> >> I have also received a similar unsolicited mail. I would like to know
> >> who has authorized
> >> the aggregation and usage of email address from "previous lists and
> >> events in which
> >> people participated". I think every event has a privacy policy and
> >> e-mail address provided
> >> are only to be used for communicating about the specific event and not
> >> for aggregating for
> >> future use.
> >>
> >
> >
> > For the record, the use of such mailing services for FOSS4G promotion is
> not
> > new. Even FOSS4G 2015 (Seoul) used MailChimp in a very similar way, I
> still
> > have some of their mails in my archives, and I'm sure other past events
> did
> > as well but I didn't bother digging any further.
> >
> > How can you realistically expect to do outreach to new people if you only
> > announce your event on osgeo-discuss?
> >
> > This anti-anything-locationtech-does drama is becoming boring, please
> let's
> > get over it.
> >
> > --
> > Daniel Morissette
> > http://www.mapgears.com/
> > T: +1 418-696-5056 #201
> >
> > http://evouala.com/ - Location Intelligence Made Easy
> >
> > ___
> > Discuss mailing list
> > Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



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dbSpatial LLC
612-424-9932
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

[Jody Garnett]

I also find it good to ask project leads to pass on announcements of this
nature to their user lists ( more reach the better ).
On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 8:10 AM Steven Feldman <shfeld...@gmail.com> wrote:

> +1,000,000 to what Paul has said
>
> I also passed the FOSS4G 2013 list (which included names for 2011 and
> previous FOSSS4Gs) to the 2014 team in the spirit of fraternal support to
> future FOSS4Gs, I believe that was the right thing to do even though we
> neglected to have specific opt in/out option. No doubt they passed the
> extended list to 2015 and they have in turn shared with 2016. This is good
> not bad.
>
> We need to separate the animus towards LT from the apparent horror at the
> use of a ‘commercial’ service like MailChimp. Those of us who earn our
> living from Open Source Geo need to promote Open Source Geo and that means
> outreach to people who may not be followers of our mailing lists, so we
> need other channels. e-mail marketing is an established way of reaching
> potential FOSS4G participants, it is not evil, it probably isn’t spam (even
> if you haven’t opted in) as long as you provide an immediate opt out from
> further mail (which MailChimp does really well).
>
> If LT are willing to allow us access to their large contact list, surely
> that is something we should say thank you for not complain about? We might
> want to ask ourselves why their list is so much larger than ours? We have a
> list of several thousand accumulated from previous FOSS4Gs, using MailChimp
> enables us to clean that list down to interested participants very
> efficiently by providing a simple opt out.
>
> There is no reason why we should not continue to maintain a growing list
> of people who have attended, sponsored or expressed interest in
> OSGeo/FOSS4G. The norm should be that you are opted in by default as a
> result of past interest but every mail provides the option to opt out.
>
> Evangelising Open Source Geo is IMHO immensely worthwhile. To do that you
> need to be a bit pushy while finding the right balance.
>
> Let’s applaud our advocates, conference organisers and marketeers, not
> moan at them
>
> Apologies if this is a bit ranty (the first draft was way more ranty)
>
> Peace and goodwill to everyone for the holiday season whatever your faith
> __
> Steven
>
>
> On 16 Dec 2015, at 20:00, board-requ...@lists.osgeo.org wrote:
>
> *From: *Paul Ramsey <pram...@cleverelephant.ca>
> *Subject: **Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o*
> *Date: *16 December 2015 at 17:16:15 GMT
> *To: *Daniel Morissette <dmorisse...@mapgears.com>
> *Cc: *OSGeo Discussions <discuss@lists.osgeo.org>
>
>
>
> Agree w/ Daniel in all ways. We want our events to succeed, no? So we
> use marketing techniques to do so. Emails and so on. And we track who
> opens them so we can get better at marketing. Like any other business
> trying to succeed. Mail chimp is currently convenient, in the past
> other technologies were convenient (I spammed people in 2007 using a
> custom perl script, because I am a God Among Men), in the future
> different technologies will be convenient. But they are all going
> towards making a good event.
>
> Naturally the first targets of marketing the event will be people who
> have attended past events under the same/similar umbrella. I provided
> the 2007 attendance list to foss4g events for a number of years until
> it had grown entirely stale. I felt good about it. I revelled in the
> goodness of it.
>
> I have spammed. I will spam again, in the service of a good cause.
> That is my weakness. That is my strength.
>
> P.
>
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

-- 
--
Jody Garnett
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

[Steven Feldman]

+1,000,000 to what Paul has said

I also passed the FOSS4G 2013 list (which included names for 2011 and previous 
FOSSS4Gs) to the 2014 team in the spirit of fraternal support to future 
FOSS4Gs, I believe that was the right thing to do even though we neglected to 
have specific opt in/out option. No doubt they passed the extended list to 2015 
and they have in turn shared with 2016. This is good not bad.

We need to separate the animus towards LT from the apparent horror at the use 
of a ‘commercial’ service like MailChimp. Those of us who earn our living from 
Open Source Geo need to promote Open Source Geo and that means outreach to 
people who may not be followers of our mailing lists, so we need other 
channels. e-mail marketing is an established way of reaching potential FOSS4G 
participants, it is not evil, it probably isn’t spam (even if you haven’t opted 
in) as long as you provide an immediate opt out from further mail (which 
MailChimp does really well).

If LT are willing to allow us access to their large contact list, surely that 
is something we should say thank you for not complain about? We might want to 
ask ourselves why their list is so much larger than ours? We have a list of 
several thousand accumulated from previous FOSS4Gs, using MailChimp enables us 
to clean that list down to interested participants very efficiently by 
providing a simple opt out.

There is no reason why we should not continue to maintain a growing list of 
people who have attended, sponsored or expressed interest in OSGeo/FOSS4G. The 
norm should be that you are opted in by default as a result of past interest 
but every mail provides the option to opt out.

Evangelising Open Source Geo is IMHO immensely worthwhile. To do that you need 
to be a bit pushy while finding the right balance. 

Let’s applaud our advocates, conference organisers and marketeers, not moan at 
them

Apologies if this is a bit ranty (the first draft was way more ranty)

Peace and goodwill to everyone for the holiday season whatever your faith
__
Steven


> On 16 Dec 2015, at 20:00, board-requ...@lists.osgeo.org wrote:
> 
> From: Paul Ramsey <pram...@cleverelephant.ca 
> <mailto:pram...@cleverelephant.ca>>
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o
> Date: 16 December 2015 at 17:16:15 GMT
> To: Daniel Morissette <dmorisse...@mapgears.com 
> <mailto:dmorisse...@mapgears.com>>
> Cc: OSGeo Discussions <discuss@lists.osgeo.org 
> <mailto:discuss@lists.osgeo.org>>
> 
> 
> Agree w/ Daniel in all ways. We want our events to succeed, no? So we
> use marketing techniques to do so. Emails and so on. And we track who
> opens them so we can get better at marketing. Like any other business
> trying to succeed. Mail chimp is currently convenient, in the past
> other technologies were convenient (I spammed people in 2007 using a
> custom perl script, because I am a God Among Men), in the future
> different technologies will be convenient. But they are all going
> towards making a good event.
> 
> Naturally the first targets of marketing the event will be people who
> have attended past events under the same/similar umbrella. I provided
> the 2007 attendance list to foss4g events for a number of years until
> it had grown entirely stale. I felt good about it. I revelled in the
> goodness of it.
> 
> I have spammed. I will spam again, in the service of a good cause.
> That is my weakness. That is my strength.
> 
> P.

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

[Daniel Kastl]

onsored or expressed interest in
> OSGeo/FOSS4G. The norm should be that you are opted in by default as a
> result of past interest but every mail provides the option to opt out.
>
> Evangelising Open Source Geo is IMHO immensely worthwhile. To do that
> you need to be a bit pushy while finding the right balance. 
>
> Let’s applaud our advocates, conference organisers and marketeers, not
> moan at them
>
> Apologies if this is a bit ranty (the first draft was way more ranty)
>
> Peace and goodwill to everyone for the holiday season whatever your faith
> __
> Steven
>
>
>> On 16 Dec 2015, at 20:00, board-requ...@lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:board-requ...@lists.osgeo.org> wrote:
>>
>> *From: *Paul Ramsey <pram...@cleverelephant.ca
>> <mailto:pram...@cleverelephant.ca>>
>> *Subject: **Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o*
>> *Date: *16 December 2015 at 17:16:15 GMT
>> *To: *Daniel Morissette <dmorisse...@mapgears.com
>> <mailto:dmorisse...@mapgears.com>>
>> *Cc: *OSGeo Discussions <discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:discuss@lists.osgeo.org>>
>>
>>
>> Agree w/ Daniel in all ways. We want our events to succeed, no? So we
>> use marketing techniques to do so. Emails and so on. And we track who
>> opens them so we can get better at marketing. Like any other business
>> trying to succeed. Mail chimp is currently convenient, in the past
>> other technologies were convenient (I spammed people in 2007 using a
>> custom perl script, because I am a God Among Men), in the future
>> different technologies will be convenient. But they are all going
>> towards making a good event.
>>
>> Naturally the first targets of marketing the event will be people who
>> have attended past events under the same/similar umbrella. I provided
>> the 2007 attendance list to foss4g events for a number of years until
>> it had grown entirely stale. I felt good about it. I revelled in the
>> goodness of it.
>>
>> I have spammed. I will spam again, in the service of a good cause.
>> That is my weakness. That is my strength.
>>
>> P.
>
>
>
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

-- 
Georepublic UG & Georepublic Japan
eMail: daniel.ka...@georepublic.de
Web: https://georepublic.info

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

[David Bianco]

gt;
>
> On 18/12/15 01:09, Steven Feldman
  wrote:
>> +1,000,000 to what Paul has said
>>
>> I also passed the FOSS4G 2013 list (which included
names for 2011 and previous FOSSS4Gs) to the 2014 team in the
spirit of fraternal support to future FOSS4Gs, I believe that
was the right thing to do even though we neglected to have
specific opt in/out option. No doubt they passed the extended
list to 2015 and they have in turn shared with 2016. This is
good not bad.
>>
>> We need to separate the animus towards LT from the
apparent horror at the use of a ‘commercial’ service like
MailChimp. Those of us who earn our living from Open Source Geo
need to promote Open Source Geo and that means outreach to
people who may not be followers of our mailing lists, so we need
other channels. e-mail marketing is an established way of
reaching potential FOSS4G participants, it is not evil, it
probably isn’t spam (even if you haven’t opted in) as long as
you provide an immediate opt out from further mail (which
MailChimp does really well).
>>
>> If LT are willing to allow us access to their large
contact list, surely that is something we should say thank you
for not complain about? We might want to ask ourselves why their
list is so much larger than ours? We have a list of several
thousand accumulated from previous FOSS4Gs, using MailChimp
enables us to clean that list down to interested participants
very efficiently by providing a simple opt out.
>>
>> There is no reason why we should not continue to
maintain a growing list of people who have attended, sponsored
or expressed interest in OSGeo/FOSS4G. The norm should be that
you are opted in by default as a result of past interest but
every mail provides the option to opt out.
>>
>> Evangelising Open Source Geo is IMHO immensely
worthwhile. To do that you need to be a bit pushy while finding
the right balance.
>>
>> Let’s applaud our advocates, conference organisers
and marketeers, not moan at them
>>
>> Apologies if this is a bit ranty (the first draft
was way more ranty)
>>
>> Peace and goodwill to everyone for the holiday
season whatever your faith
>> __
>>
    Steven
>>
>>> On 16 Dec 2015, at 20:00, board-requ...@lists.osgeo.org
  wrote:
>>>
>>> *From:*Paul Ramsey
  <pram...@cleverelephant.ca>
>>> *Subject:**Re:
[OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you
:-o*
>>> *Date:*16 December
  2015 at 17:16:15 GMT
>>> *To:*Daniel
  Morissette <dmorisse...@mapgears.com>
>>> *Cc:*OSGeo
  Discussions <discuss@lists.osgeo.org>
>>>
>>>
>>> Agree w/ Daniel in all ways. We
want our events to succeed, no? So we
>>> use marketing techniques to do so.
Emails and so on. And we track who
>>> opens them so we can get better at
marketing. Like any other business
>>> trying to succeed. Mail chimp is
currently convenient, in the past
>>> other technologies were convenient
(I spammed people in 2007 using a
>>> custom perl script, because I am a
God Among Men), in the future
>>> different technologies will be
convenient. But they are all going
>>> towards making a good event.
>>>
>>> Naturally the first targets of
marketing the event will be people who
>>> have attended past events under
the same/similar umbrella. I provided
>>> the 2007 attendance list to foss4g
events for a number of years until
>>> it had grown entirely stale. I
felt good about it. I revelled in the
>>> goodness of it.
>>>
>>> I have spammed. I will spam again,
in the service of a good cause.
>>> That is my weakness. That is my
strength.
>>>
>>> P.
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
> --
Georepublic UG & Georepublic Japan eMail: daniel.ka...@georepublic.de
Web: https://georepublic.info
> _
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> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

[Jody Garnett]

The board is aware of public perception and I trust it will be on the
agenda for f2f meeting.

I think we can do a bit better than a statement - in our last board meeting
Micheal Smith has volunteered to be our OSGeo representative to
LocationTech. OSGeo is a member of LocationTech and we have been remiss in
keeping communication going in an official capacity (by supplying a
representative). We can issue a press release to that effect to have a
publicly visible sign of communication/collaboration.

Thank you for reassurance on the selection process Jeroen - all three were
very strong bids.

--
Jody Garnett

On 16 December 2015 at 05:29, Jeroen Ticheler 
wrote:

> Thanks Ian for this email! I fully support what you are writing. It is
> very much time to stop the negative sentiments around LocationTech, FOSS4G
> conference offers that had LocationTech as a partner and so forth.
> Constructive collaboration is all we need within OSGeo AND with others in
> the (geo-)community.
>
> I’ve heard negative sentiments about the FOSS4G 2017 selection process. As
> a member of the Conference Committee I would like to state here that I am
> convinced the LocationTech issue was not as decisive for most members as
> people outside the committee seem to think. It was an aspect discussed
> thoroughly, as were other aspects of the proposals.
>
> I hope the Face to Face meeting end of January by the OSGeo board hosted
> in our GeoCat office will be constructive and positive from all angles. But
> at this stage I also call upon the OSGeo Board to come forward with a
> statement that helps to unify the OSGeo community and give directions.
> There seems to be a vacuum in the leadership right now with Jeff’s sudden
> resignation that should be filled as soon as possible.
>
> Greetings,
> Jeroen
>
> 
> *Try GeoCat Bridge© *
> *An extension to ArcGIS© to instantly publish data and metadata on
> GeoServer, MapServer, PostGIS and GeoNetwork.*
> *See http://geocat.net  for more details. *
>
> Jeroen Ticheler
> GeoCat bv
> Veenderweg 13
> 6721 WD Bennekom
> The Netherlands
> Tel: +31 (0)6 81286572
> http://geocat.net
>
> 
> 
>
> On 16 dec. 2015, at 12:29, Ian Edwards  wrote:
>
> *"there seems to be a fairly strident Location Tech bashing going on"*
>
> This negative "bashing" of other organisations has to completely stop
> because it is having a massive negative impact on OSGeo.
>
> We've recently lost a respected former board member (who has resigned his
> charter member status) and the OSGeo president, both in relation to how
> we've conducted ourselves in relation to other organisations in the
> community.  These internal losses are not due to there being other
> organisations in the geospatial world, nor how they are acting - but
> instead our losses are due to how we ourselves are thinking and behaving.
>
> OSGeo should positively support all elements of the geospatial community
> including users, developers and also other organisations to the fullest and
> best of our ability.  By doing this we become stronger (instead of weaker)
> and will remain useful, relevant and of interest to the community who will
> continue to invest their energy and efforts with us and recognise our
> unique value and position.
>
> In relation to LocationTech - similar divisions exist across the entire
> Open Source world (take a look at LibreOffice and OpenOffice, or MariaDB
> and MySQL).  The broard "FOSS4G" community (encompassing both OSGeo and
> LocationTech) is not alone in facing this, and my hope is that OSGeo can
> once again be a beacon to the rest of the open source world and show how
> best to embrace these differences, understand the strengths and weakness in
> both camps, and work together for the positive benefit of our diverse
> community.
>
>
> --
> Ian Edwards
>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Puneet Kishor 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> > On Dec 16, 2015, at 3:07 PM, Pat Tressel  wrote:
>> >
>> > If you want to point at a company as being the Evil Empire these days,
>> you'd be more accurate pointing at Apple (cancelling licenses for Mac
>> clones, suicides at Foxconn, restrictions on getting apps on iTunes,
>> removing fitness tracker products from their stores because they might
>> compete with the Apple Watch, etc. -- do a search for "apple anti
>> competitive practices")
>>
>> You were doing fine until above. The rest of your post is indeed very
>> relevant and useful and argues correctly for sanity instead of knee-jerk
>> accusations (until the above assertions, of course).
>>
>> The point is, there seems to be a fairly strident Location Tech bashing
>> going on, and it is getting to be tiring. Let's stick to keeping OSGeo a
>> fun, useful champion of free and 

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

[Stephen Woodbridge]

I think there is another facet of communication that is being missed and 
is probably part of the current issue. I think the OSGeo member of 
LocationTech should also be responsible for keep the OSGeo membership 
more informed about what is happening between the two organizations.


I think it is natural for our members to react defensively when 
surprised by new information that seems to be detrimental to our 
organization. Keep members more informed on a regular basis would help.


I for one do not have time to read through all the minutes of the board 
meeting and various other committee meetings and would appreciate a 
summary getting posted to Discuss.


-Steve

On 12/16/2015 2:34 PM, Jody Garnett wrote:

The board is aware of public perception and I trust it will be on the
agenda for f2f meeting.

I think we can do a bit better than a statement - in our last board
meeting Micheal Smith has volunteered to be our OSGeo representative to
LocationTech. OSGeo is a member of LocationTech and we have been remiss
in keeping communication going in an official capacity (by supplying a
representative). We can issue a press release to that effect to have a
publicly visible sign of communication/collaboration.

Thank you for reassurance on the selection process Jeroen - all three
were very strong bids.

--
Jody Garnett

On 16 December 2015 at 05:29, Jeroen Ticheler
> wrote:

Thanks Ian for this email! I fully support what you are writing. It
is very much time to stop the negative sentiments around
LocationTech, FOSS4G conference offers that had LocationTech as a
partner and so forth. Constructive collaboration is all we need
within OSGeo AND with others in the (geo-)community.

I’ve heard negative sentiments about the FOSS4G 2017 selection
process. As a member of the Conference Committee I would like to
state here that I am convinced the LocationTech issue was not as
decisive for most members as people outside the committee seem to
think. It was an aspect discussed thoroughly, as were other aspects
of the proposals.

I hope the Face to Face meeting end of January by the OSGeo board
hosted in our GeoCat office will be constructive and positive from
all angles. But at this stage I also call upon the OSGeo Board to
come forward with a statement that helps to unify the OSGeo
community and give directions. There seems to be a vacuum in the
leadership right now with Jeff’s sudden resignation that should be
filled as soon as possible.

Greetings,
Jeroen


**
**
***
*
*
*Try GeoCat*
*
*Bridge©
***
*
An extension to ArcGIS© to instantly publish data and metadata on
GeoServer, MapServer, PostGIS and GeoNetwork.
*
*
See http://geocat.net  for more details.
*

Jeroen Ticheler
GeoCat bv
Veenderweg 13
6721 WD Bennekom
The Netherlands
Tel: +31 (0)6 81286572 
http://geocat.net




On 16 dec. 2015, at 12:29, Ian Edwards > wrote:

/"there seems to be a fairly strident Location Tech bashing going on"/

This negative "bashing" of other organisations has to completely
stop because it is having a massive negative impact on OSGeo.

We've recently lost a respected former board member (who has
resigned his charter member status) and the OSGeo president, both
in relation to how we've conducted ourselves in relation to other
organisations in the community.  These internal losses are not due
to there being other organisations in the geospatial world, nor
how they are acting - but instead our losses are due to how we
ourselves are thinking and behaving.

OSGeo should positively support all elements of the geospatial
community including users, developers and also other organisations
to the fullest and best of our ability.  By doing this we become
stronger (instead of weaker) and will remain useful, relevant and
of interest to the community who will continue to invest their
energy and efforts with us and recognise our unique value and
position.

In relation to LocationTech - similar divisions exist across the
entire Open Source world (take a look at LibreOffice and
OpenOffice, or MariaDB and MySQL).  The broard "FOSS4G" community
(encompassing both OSGeo and LocationTech) is not alone in facing
this, and my hope is that OSGeo can once again be a beacon to the
rest of the open source world and show how best to embrace these
differences, understand the strengths and weakness in both camps,
and work together for the positive benefit 

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

[Arnulf Christl]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Paul, Daniel,
thanks.

+1

Arnulf (OSGeo President Emeritus)

On 16.12.2015 18:16, Paul Ramsey wrote:
> Agree w/ Daniel in all ways. We want our events to succeed, no? So we
> use marketing techniques to do so. Emails and so on. And we track who
> opens them so we can get better at marketing. Like any other business
> trying to succeed. Mail chimp is currently convenient, in the past
> other technologies were convenient (I spammed people in 2007 using a
> custom perl script, because I am a God Among Men), in the future
> different technologies will be convenient. But they are all going
> towards making a good event.
> 
> Naturally the first targets of marketing the event will be people who
> have attended past events under the same/similar umbrella. I provided
> the 2007 attendance list to foss4g events for a number of years until
> it had grown entirely stale. I felt good about it. I revelled in the
> goodness of it.
> 
> I have spammed. I will spam again, in the service of a good cause.
> That is my weakness. That is my strength.
> 
> P.
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 7:20 AM, Daniel Morissette
>  wrote:
>> On 2015-12-16 10:00 AM, Venkatesh Raghavan wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2015/12/16 18:37, Pat Tressel wrote:

 MailChimp is a very popular product. If you have a provable accusat
ion
 against them -- that they were acting **independently of the accoun
t
 administrator** to alter lists, then that would be significant. As 
Rob
 has stated, MailChimp did not do something by itself. The list was
 aggregated from previous lists and events in which people participa
ted.
>>>
>>>
>>> I have also received a similar unsolicited mail. I would like to kno
w
>>> who has authorized
>>> the aggregation and usage of email address from "previous lists and
>>> events in which
>>> people participated". I think every event has a privacy policy and
>>> e-mail address provided
>>> are only to be used for communicating about the specific event and n
ot
>>> for aggregating for
>>> future use.
>>>
>>
>>
>> For the record, the use of such mailing services for FOSS4G promotion
 is not
>> new. Even FOSS4G 2015 (Seoul) used MailChimp in a very similar way, I
 still
>> have some of their mails in my archives, and I'm sure other past even
ts did
>> as well but I didn't bother digging any further.
>>
>> How can you realistically expect to do outreach to new people if you 
only
>> announce your event on osgeo-discuss?
>>
>> This anti-anything-locationtech-does drama is becoming boring, please
 let's
>> get over it.
>>
>> --
>> Daniel Morissette
>> http://www.mapgears.com/
>> T: +1 418-696-5056 #201
>>
>> http://evouala.com/ - Location Intelligence Made Easy
>>
>> ___
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> 


- -- 
Arnulf Christl (Director)
The metaspatial Institute Certification:
Open Source - Open Data - Open Standards
http://www.metaspatial.net/en/institute
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

[Arnulf Christl]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Ian, Jeroen,
thanks.

+1

Arnulf (OSGeo President Emeritus)

On 16.12.2015 14:29, Jeroen Ticheler wrote:
> Thanks Ian for this email! I fully support what you are writing. It
> is very much time to stop the negative sentiments around
> LocationTech, FOSS4G conference offers that had LocationTech as a
> partner and so forth. Constructive collaboration is all we need
> within OSGeo AND with others in the (geo-)community.
> 
> I’ve heard negative sentiments about the FOSS4G 2017 selection
> process. As a member of the Conference Committee I would like to
> state here that I am convinced the LocationTech issue was not as
> decisive for most members as people outside the committee seem to
> think. It was an aspect discussed thoroughly, as were other aspects
> of the proposals.
> 
> I hope the Face to Face meeting end of January by the OSGeo board
> hosted in our GeoCat office will be constructive and positive from
> all angles. But at this stage I also call upon the OSGeo Board to
> come forward with a statement that helps to unify the OSGeo community
> and give directions. There seems to be a vacuum in the leadership
> right now with Jeff’s sudden resignation that should be filled as
> soon as possible.
> 
> Greetings, Jeroen
> 
>  ** ** *** * * 
> *Try GeoCat* * * Bridge© *** * An extension to ArcGIS© to instantly
> publish data and metadata on GeoServer, MapServer, PostGIS and
> GeoNetwork. * * See http://geocat.net  for more
> details. *
> 
> Jeroen Ticheler GeoCat bv Veenderweg 13 6721 WD Bennekom The
> Netherlands Tel: +31 (0)6 81286572 http://geocat.net
> 
>  
> 
>> On 16 dec. 2015, at 12:29, Ian Edwards > > wrote:
>> 
>> /"there seems to be a fairly strident Location Tech bashing going
>> on"/
>> 
>> This negative "bashing" of other organisations has to completely
>> stop because it is having a massive negative impact on OSGeo.
>> 
>> We've recently lost a respected former board member (who has
>> resigned his charter member status) and the OSGeo president, both
>> in relation to how we've conducted ourselves in relation to other
>> organisations in the community.  These internal losses are not due
>> to there being other organisations in the geospatial world, nor how
>> they are acting - but instead our losses are due to how we
>> ourselves are thinking and behaving.
>> 
>> OSGeo should positively support all elements of the geospatial 
>> community including users, developers and also other organisations
>> to the fullest and best of our ability.  By doing this we become
>> stronger (instead of weaker) and will remain useful, relevant and
>> of interest to the community who will continue to invest their
>> energy and efforts with us and recognise our unique value and
>> position.
>> 
>> In relation to LocationTech - similar divisions exist across the 
>> entire Open Source world (take a look at LibreOffice and
>> OpenOffice, or MariaDB and MySQL).  The broard "FOSS4G" community
>> (encompassing both OSGeo and LocationTech) is not alone in facing
>> this, and my hope is that OSGeo can once again be a beacon to the
>> rest of the open source world and show how best to embrace these
>> differences, understand the strengths and weakness in both camps,
>> and work together for the positive benefit of our diverse
>> community.
>> 
>> 
>> -- Ian Edwards
>> 
>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Puneet Kishor
>> > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 16, 2015, at 3:07 PM, Pat Tressel >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> If you want to point at a company as being the Evil Empire these
>>> days, you'd be more accurate pointing at Apple (cancelling
>>> licenses for Mac clones, suicides at Foxconn, restrictions on
>>> getting apps on iTunes, removing fitness tracker products from
>>> their stores because they might compete with the Apple Watch,
>>> etc. -- do a search for "apple anti competitive practices")
>> 
>> You were doing fine until above. The rest of your post is indeed 
>> very relevant and useful and argues correctly for sanity instead of
>> knee-jerk accusations (until the above assertions, of course).
>> 
>> The point is, there seems to be a fairly strident Location Tech 
>> bashing going on, and it is getting to be tiring. Let's stick to 
>> keeping OSGeo a fun, useful champion of free and open geospatial 
>> without becoming anti-anything-free, partisan and possibly
>> irrelevant.
>> 
>> -- Puneet Kishor Just Another Creative Commoner 
>> ___ Discuss mailing
>> list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org  
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>> 
>> 
>> 

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

[Pat Tressel]

Puneet --

> If you want to point at a company as being the Evil Empire these days,
> you'd be more accurate pointing at Apple (cancelling licenses for Mac
> clones, suicides at Foxconn, restrictions on getting apps on iTunes,
> removing fitness tracker products from their stores because they might
> compete with the Apple Watch, etc. -- do a search for "apple anti
> competitive practices")
>
> You were doing fine until above. The rest of your post is indeed very
> relevant and useful and argues correctly for sanity instead of knee-jerk
> accusations (until the above assertions, of course).
>

A valid point -- I should have left that out (and almost did delete it) and
kept it positive.


> The point is, there seems to be a fairly strident Location Tech bashing
> going on, and it is getting to be tiring.


Ah, yes.


> Let's stick to keeping OSGeo a fun, useful champion of free and open
> geospatial without becoming anti-anything-free, partisan and possibly
> irrelevant.
>

^^ This ^^  ;-)

Massimiliano --

You misunderstood or probably i didn't explained myself.

I'm not against any proprietary software or company. I use google and agree
> to accept their term of use.
>
Ok.  It sounded like accusations against those companies.  The main point
was that MailChimp did not do anything mysterious or underhanded.
Suggestion for future:  Just ask "how did I get on these lists" (or
whatever), and you'll get the answer without the Sturm und Drang.  :D

-- Pat
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

[Paul Ramsey]

Agree w/ Daniel in all ways. We want our events to succeed, no? So we
use marketing techniques to do so. Emails and so on. And we track who
opens them so we can get better at marketing. Like any other business
trying to succeed. Mail chimp is currently convenient, in the past
other technologies were convenient (I spammed people in 2007 using a
custom perl script, because I am a God Among Men), in the future
different technologies will be convenient. But they are all going
towards making a good event.

Naturally the first targets of marketing the event will be people who
have attended past events under the same/similar umbrella. I provided
the 2007 attendance list to foss4g events for a number of years until
it had grown entirely stale. I felt good about it. I revelled in the
goodness of it.

I have spammed. I will spam again, in the service of a good cause.
That is my weakness. That is my strength.

P.



On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 7:20 AM, Daniel Morissette
 wrote:
> On 2015-12-16 10:00 AM, Venkatesh Raghavan wrote:
>>
>> On 2015/12/16 18:37, Pat Tressel wrote:
>>>
>>> MailChimp is a very popular product. If you have a provable accusation
>>> against them -- that they were acting **independently of the account
>>> administrator** to alter lists, then that would be significant. As Rob
>>> has stated, MailChimp did not do something by itself. The list was
>>> aggregated from previous lists and events in which people participated.
>>
>>
>> I have also received a similar unsolicited mail. I would like to know
>> who has authorized
>> the aggregation and usage of email address from "previous lists and
>> events in which
>> people participated". I think every event has a privacy policy and
>> e-mail address provided
>> are only to be used for communicating about the specific event and not
>> for aggregating for
>> future use.
>>
>
>
> For the record, the use of such mailing services for FOSS4G promotion is not
> new. Even FOSS4G 2015 (Seoul) used MailChimp in a very similar way, I still
> have some of their mails in my archives, and I'm sure other past events did
> as well but I didn't bother digging any further.
>
> How can you realistically expect to do outreach to new people if you only
> announce your event on osgeo-discuss?
>
> This anti-anything-locationtech-does drama is becoming boring, please let's
> get over it.
>
> --
> Daniel Morissette
> http://www.mapgears.com/
> T: +1 418-696-5056 #201
>
> http://evouala.com/ - Location Intelligence Made Easy
>
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

[Jody Garnett]

I can provide an update - but I am not sure what is interesting. Most of
the things LocationTech does are advertised here on the discussion list (if
they are an event ) or via twitter
(for news ).

Most communication in LocationTech (just like with OSGeo) is focused on
projects and committers. There is a monthly meeting of project leads for
example. This is where I am involved personally, with the primary goal of
getting some official project releases made. LocationTech has a few new
members this year (which is great but I am more interested in what projects
they bring to the table).

LocationTech has been doing a good job of outreach activities. LocationTech
participates in a number of conferences, sometimes as an organizer
sometimes as an attendee. They key event is the "LocationTech Tour" which
visits a number of cities and always has a mix of OSGeo and LocationTech
content.

I guess you are asking about what is happening between OSGeo and
LocationTech:

* There was a code sprint in Philadelphia with a mix of OSGeo and
LocationTech projects
* The LocationTech Tour has been well attended. We had a great event here
in Victoria highlighting GeoServer, PostGIS, Torque, QGIS, GeoGig. It was
for some students there first non ESRI experience with mapping software. I
wrote a blog post
 on that one
* FOSS4G NA 2015 was a joint conference earlier in the year - this was well
covered by blogs
* Other than that there is lots of casual collaboration between projects,
but nothing official (but I hope to fix that next year)

When wrote up what I wanted to do as an OSGeo board member one of my goals
is to improve collaborations (such as this one with LocationTech) so we can
better make use of our resources as a community.

I have done a couple of talks comparing
 the two
organizations - but the real message there is advocating for responsible
open source development (OSGeo and LocationTech are just a couple of the
organizations available to help projects play safe on the internet).

I guess I am not quite sure what you are looking for Steve?


--
Jody Garnett

On 16 December 2015 at 13:01, Stephen Woodbridge 
wrote:

> I think there is another facet of communication that is being missed and
> is probably part of the current issue. I think the OSGeo member of
> LocationTech should also be responsible for keep the OSGeo membership more
> informed about what is happening between the two organizations.
>
> I think it is natural for our members to react defensively when surprised
> by new information that seems to be detrimental to our organization. Keep
> members more informed on a regular basis would help.
>
> I for one do not have time to read through all the minutes of the board
> meeting and various other committee meetings and would appreciate a summary
> getting posted to Discuss.
>
> -Steve
>
> On 12/16/2015 2:34 PM, Jody Garnett wrote:
>
>> The board is aware of public perception and I trust it will be on the
>> agenda for f2f meeting.
>>
>> I think we can do a bit better than a statement - in our last board
>> meeting Micheal Smith has volunteered to be our OSGeo representative to
>> LocationTech. OSGeo is a member of LocationTech and we have been remiss
>> in keeping communication going in an official capacity (by supplying a
>> representative). We can issue a press release to that effect to have a
>> publicly visible sign of communication/collaboration.
>>
>> Thank you for reassurance on the selection process Jeroen - all three
>> were very strong bids.
>>
>> --
>> Jody Garnett
>>
>> On 16 December 2015 at 05:29, Jeroen Ticheler
>> > wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Ian for this email! I fully support what you are writing. It
>> is very much time to stop the negative sentiments around
>> LocationTech, FOSS4G conference offers that had LocationTech as a
>> partner and so forth. Constructive collaboration is all we need
>> within OSGeo AND with others in the (geo-)community.
>>
>> I’ve heard negative sentiments about the FOSS4G 2017 selection
>> process. As a member of the Conference Committee I would like to
>> state here that I am convinced the LocationTech issue was not as
>> decisive for most members as people outside the committee seem to
>> think. It was an aspect discussed thoroughly, as were other aspects
>> of the proposals.
>>
>> I hope the Face to Face meeting end of January by the OSGeo board
>> hosted in our GeoCat office will be constructive and positive from
>> all angles. But at this stage I also call upon the OSGeo Board to
>> come forward with a statement that helps to unify the OSGeo
>> community and give directions. There seems to be a vacuum in the
>> 

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

[Jeroen Ticheler]

Thanks Ian for this email! I fully support what you are writing. It is very 
much time to stop the negative sentiments around LocationTech, FOSS4G 
conference offers that had LocationTech as a partner and so forth. Constructive 
collaboration is all we need within OSGeo AND with others in the 
(geo-)community.

I’ve heard negative sentiments about the FOSS4G 2017 selection process. As a 
member of the Conference Committee I would like to state here that I am 
convinced the LocationTech issue was not as decisive for most members as people 
outside the committee seem to think. It was an aspect discussed thoroughly, as 
were other aspects of the proposals.

I hope the Face to Face meeting end of January by the OSGeo board hosted in our 
GeoCat office will be constructive and positive from all angles. But at this 
stage I also call upon the OSGeo Board to come forward with a statement that 
helps to unify the OSGeo community and give directions. There seems to be a 
vacuum in the leadership right now with Jeff’s sudden resignation that should 
be filled as soon as possible.

Greetings,
Jeroen


Try GeoCat Bridge© 
An extension to ArcGIS© to instantly publish data and metadata on GeoServer, 
MapServer, PostGIS and GeoNetwork.
See http://geocat.net  for more details. 

Jeroen Ticheler
GeoCat bv
Veenderweg 13
6721 WD Bennekom
The Netherlands
Tel: +31 (0)6 81286572
http://geocat.net

 
 
> On 16 dec. 2015, at 12:29, Ian Edwards  wrote:
> 
> "there seems to be a fairly strident Location Tech bashing going on"
> 
> This negative "bashing" of other organisations has to completely stop because 
> it is having a massive negative impact on OSGeo.
> 
> We've recently lost a respected former board member (who has resigned his 
> charter member status) and the OSGeo president, both in relation to how we've 
> conducted ourselves in relation to other organisations in the community.  
> These internal losses are not due to there being other organisations in the 
> geospatial world, nor how they are acting - but instead our losses are due to 
> how we ourselves are thinking and behaving.
> 
> OSGeo should positively support all elements of the geospatial community 
> including users, developers and also other organisations to the fullest and 
> best of our ability.  By doing this we become stronger (instead of weaker) 
> and will remain useful, relevant and of interest to the community who will 
> continue to invest their energy and efforts with us and recognise our unique 
> value and position.
> 
> In relation to LocationTech - similar divisions exist across the entire Open 
> Source world (take a look at LibreOffice and OpenOffice, or MariaDB and 
> MySQL).  The broard "FOSS4G" community (encompassing both OSGeo and 
> LocationTech) is not alone in facing this, and my hope is that OSGeo can once 
> again be a beacon to the rest of the open source world and show how best to 
> embrace these differences, understand the strengths and weakness in both 
> camps, and work together for the positive benefit of our diverse community.
> 
> 
> --
> Ian Edwards
> 
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Puneet Kishor  > wrote:
> 
> 
> > On Dec 16, 2015, at 3:07 PM, Pat Tressel  > > wrote:
> >
> > If you want to point at a company as being the Evil Empire these days, 
> > you'd be more accurate pointing at Apple (cancelling licenses for Mac 
> > clones, suicides at Foxconn, restrictions on getting apps on iTunes, 
> > removing fitness tracker products from their stores because they might 
> > compete with the Apple Watch, etc. -- do a search for "apple anti 
> > competitive practices")
> 
> You were doing fine until above. The rest of your post is indeed very 
> relevant and useful and argues correctly for sanity instead of knee-jerk 
> accusations (until the above assertions, of course).
> 
> The point is, there seems to be a fairly strident Location Tech bashing going 
> on, and it is getting to be tiring. Let's stick to keeping OSGeo a fun, 
> useful champion of free and open geospatial without becoming 
> anti-anything-free, partisan and possibly irrelevant.
> 
> --
> Puneet Kishor
> Just Another Creative Commoner
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org 
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss 
> 
> 
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

[Massimiliano Cannata]

Pat
You misunderstood or probably i didn't explained myself.

I'm not against any proprietary software or company. I use google and agree
to accept their term of use.

I don't think there is any evil around, just people taking care of their
interests.

My point is that i didn't agreed to be included in any list and i don't
want anyone to trak and link my actions while looking at a foss4g website
withou advise it.
Can I say this or not?

I believe that on open source community thay care of their open principle
should particularly take care of this aspects.
Can I say this or not?

Puneet,
You may think I'm working against LocationTech but is not true. I have no
interest at all in this. I'm fully open for any collaboration with anyone
when it leads to reciprocal benfits.

Best
Maxi
Il 16/Dic/2015 10:56, "Puneet Kishor"  ha scritto:

>
>
> > On Dec 16, 2015, at 3:07 PM, Pat Tressel  wrote:
> >
> > If you want to point at a company as being the Evil Empire these days,
> you'd be more accurate pointing at Apple (cancelling licenses for Mac
> clones, suicides at Foxconn, restrictions on getting apps on iTunes,
> removing fitness tracker products from their stores because they might
> compete with the Apple Watch, etc. -- do a search for "apple anti
> competitive practices")
>
> You were doing fine until above. The rest of your post is indeed very
> relevant and useful and argues correctly for sanity instead of knee-jerk
> accusations (until the above assertions, of course).
>
> The point is, there seems to be a fairly strident Location Tech bashing
> going on, and it is getting to be tiring. Let's stick to keeping OSGeo a
> fun, useful champion of free and open geospatial without becoming
> anti-anything-free, partisan and possibly irrelevant.
>
> --
> Puneet Kishor
> Just Another Creative Commoner
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

[Venkatesh Raghavan]

On 2015/12/16 18:37, Pat Tressel wrote:
MailChimp is a very popular product. If you have a provable accusation 
against them -- that they were acting **independently of the account 
administrator** to alter lists, then that would be significant. As Rob 
has stated, MailChimp did not do something by itself. The list was 
aggregated from previous lists and events in which people participated.


I have also received a similar unsolicited mail. I would like to know 
who has authorized
the aggregation and usage of email address from "previous lists and 
events in which
people participated". I think every event has a privacy policy and 
e-mail address provided
are only to be used for communicating about the specific event and not 
for aggregating for

future use.

Venka
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

[Daniel Morissette]

On 2015-12-16 10:00 AM, Venkatesh Raghavan wrote:

On 2015/12/16 18:37, Pat Tressel wrote:

MailChimp is a very popular product. If you have a provable accusation
against them -- that they were acting **independently of the account
administrator** to alter lists, then that would be significant. As Rob
has stated, MailChimp did not do something by itself. The list was
aggregated from previous lists and events in which people participated.


I have also received a similar unsolicited mail. I would like to know
who has authorized
the aggregation and usage of email address from "previous lists and
events in which
people participated". I think every event has a privacy policy and
e-mail address provided
are only to be used for communicating about the specific event and not
for aggregating for
future use.




For the record, the use of such mailing services for FOSS4G promotion is 
not new. Even FOSS4G 2015 (Seoul) used MailChimp in a very similar way, 
I still have some of their mails in my archives, and I'm sure other past 
events did as well but I didn't bother digging any further.


How can you realistically expect to do outreach to new people if you 
only announce your event on osgeo-discuss?


This anti-anything-locationtech-does drama is becoming boring, please 
let's get over it.


--
Daniel Morissette
http://www.mapgears.com/
T: +1 418-696-5056 #201

http://evouala.com/ - Location Intelligence Made Easy
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

[Dave Patton]

On 2015/12/16 07:00, Venkatesh Raghavan wrote:

On 2015/12/16 18:37, Pat Tressel wrote:

MailChimp is a very popular product. If you have a provable
accusation against them -- that they were acting **independently of
the account administrator** to alter lists, then that would be
significant. As Rob has stated, MailChimp did not do something by
itself. The list was aggregated from previous lists and events in
which people participated.


I have also received a similar unsolicited mail. I would like to know
 who has authorized the aggregation and usage of email address from
"previous lists and events in which people participated". I think
every event has a privacy policy and e-mail address provided are only
to be used for communicating about the specific event and not for
aggregating for future use.


I too received the unsolicited email.

Presumably it was because I was involved with
the organization of FOSS4G2007.

I have already used the (tracked) Unsubscribe link,
and provided the feedback option that I unsubscribed
because I never opted in.

My suggestions:
1)
It may need to be clarified, or explicitly stated
(e.g. anywhere OSGeo/FOSS4g-related that collects
an email address), but I would suggest that it is
acceptable to utilize "collected email addresses"
for "1-time announcement" emails.

2)
When sending a "1-time announcement" email:
- do not utilize any form of "tracking"
- make it clear that this is a "1-time" email
  (i.e. in this case, for FOSS4GNA)
- provide multiple methods in the email (such
  as links and a "reply with  in the subject"
  email mechanism) so that the recipient can
  "opt in"
- provide a clear (untracked) method so that the
  recipient can "opt out" of any further "1-time"
  emails (i.e. in this case, for FOSS4GNA)

--
Dave Patton
Victoria, B.C.

Degree Confluence Project:
Canadian Coordinator
Technical Coordinator
http://www.confluence.org/

Personal website:
http://members.shaw.ca/davepatton/
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

[Jorge Gustavo Rocha]

Hi Jeroen,

Thanks for your constructive message. Ian was very constructive also.

Maybe I spend too much time coding and I miss a few emails. Did Jeff 
resign? What have we done to upset him so much?


Regards,

Jorge Gustavo

Às 13:29 de 16-12-2015, Jeroen Ticheler escreveu:

Thanks Ian for this email! I fully support what you are writing. It is
very much time to stop the negative sentiments around LocationTech,
FOSS4G conference offers that had LocationTech as a partner and so
forth. Constructive collaboration is all we need within OSGeo AND with
others in the (geo-)community.

I’ve heard negative sentiments about the FOSS4G 2017 selection process.
As a member of the Conference Committee I would like to state here that
I am convinced the LocationTech issue was not as decisive for most
members as people outside the committee seem to think. It was an aspect
discussed thoroughly, as were other aspects of the proposals.

I hope the Face to Face meeting end of January by the OSGeo board hosted
in our GeoCat office will be constructive and positive from all angles.
But at this stage I also call upon the OSGeo Board to come forward with
a statement that helps to unify the OSGeo community and give directions.
There seems to be a vacuum in the leadership right now with Jeff’s
sudden resignation that should be filled as soon as possible.

Greetings,
Jeroen


**
**
***
*
*
*Try GeoCat*
*
*Bridge©
***
*
An extension to ArcGIS© to instantly publish data and metadata on
GeoServer, MapServer, PostGIS and GeoNetwork.
*
*
See http://geocat.net  for more details.
*

Jeroen Ticheler
GeoCat bv
Veenderweg 13
6721 WD Bennekom
The Netherlands
Tel: +31 (0)6 81286572
http://geocat.net




On 16 dec. 2015, at 12:29, Ian Edwards > wrote:

/"there seems to be a fairly strident Location Tech bashing going on"/

This negative "bashing" of other organisations has to completely stop
because it is having a massive negative impact on OSGeo.

We've recently lost a respected former board member (who has resigned
his charter member status) and the OSGeo president, both in relation
to how we've conducted ourselves in relation to other organisations in
the community.  These internal losses are not due to there being other
organisations in the geospatial world, nor how they are acting - but
instead our losses are due to how we ourselves are thinking and behaving.

OSGeo should positively support all elements of the geospatial
community including users, developers and also other organisations to
the fullest and best of our ability.  By doing this we become stronger
(instead of weaker) and will remain useful, relevant and of interest
to the community who will continue to invest their energy and efforts
with us and recognise our unique value and position.

In relation to LocationTech - similar divisions exist across the
entire Open Source world (take a look at LibreOffice and OpenOffice,
or MariaDB and MySQL).  The broard "FOSS4G" community (encompassing
both OSGeo and LocationTech) is not alone in facing this, and my hope
is that OSGeo can once again be a beacon to the rest of the open
source world and show how best to embrace these differences,
understand the strengths and weakness in both camps, and work together
for the positive benefit of our diverse community.


--
Ian Edwards

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Puneet Kishor > wrote:



> On Dec 16, 2015, at 3:07 PM, Pat Tressel > wrote:
>
> If you want to point at a company as being the Evil Empire these days, you'd be 
more accurate pointing at Apple (cancelling licenses for Mac clones, suicides at Foxconn, 
restrictions on getting apps on iTunes, removing fitness tracker products from their stores 
because they might compete with the Apple Watch, etc. -- do a search for "apple anti 
competitive practices")

You were doing fine until above. The rest of your post is indeed
very relevant and useful and argues correctly for sanity instead
of knee-jerk accusations (until the above assertions, of course).

The point is, there seems to be a fairly strident Location Tech
bashing going on, and it is getting to be tiring. Let's stick to
keeping OSGeo a fun, useful champion of free and open geospatial
without becoming anti-anything-free, partisan and possibly irrelevant.

--
Puneet Kishor
Just Another Creative Commoner
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

[Ian Edwards]

*"there seems to be a fairly strident Location Tech bashing going on"*

This negative "bashing" of other organisations has to completely stop
because it is having a massive negative impact on OSGeo.

We've recently lost a respected former board member (who has resigned his
charter member status) and the OSGeo president, both in relation to how
we've conducted ourselves in relation to other organisations in the
community.  These internal losses are not due to there being other
organisations in the geospatial world, nor how they are acting - but
instead our losses are due to how we ourselves are thinking and behaving.

OSGeo should positively support all elements of the geospatial community
including users, developers and also other organisations to the fullest and
best of our ability.  By doing this we become stronger (instead of weaker)
and will remain useful, relevant and of interest to the community who will
continue to invest their energy and efforts with us and recognise our
unique value and position.

In relation to LocationTech - similar divisions exist across the entire
Open Source world (take a look at LibreOffice and OpenOffice, or MariaDB
and MySQL).  The broard "FOSS4G" community (encompassing both OSGeo and
LocationTech) is not alone in facing this, and my hope is that OSGeo can
once again be a beacon to the rest of the open source world and show how
best to embrace these differences, understand the strengths and weakness in
both camps, and work together for the positive benefit of our diverse
community.


--
Ian Edwards

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Puneet Kishor  wrote:

>
>
> > On Dec 16, 2015, at 3:07 PM, Pat Tressel  wrote:
> >
> > If you want to point at a company as being the Evil Empire these days,
> you'd be more accurate pointing at Apple (cancelling licenses for Mac
> clones, suicides at Foxconn, restrictions on getting apps on iTunes,
> removing fitness tracker products from their stores because they might
> compete with the Apple Watch, etc. -- do a search for "apple anti
> competitive practices")
>
> You were doing fine until above. The rest of your post is indeed very
> relevant and useful and argues correctly for sanity instead of knee-jerk
> accusations (until the above assertions, of course).
>
> The point is, there seems to be a fairly strident Location Tech bashing
> going on, and it is getting to be tiring. Let's stick to keeping OSGeo a
> fun, useful champion of free and open geospatial without becoming
> anti-anything-free, partisan and possibly irrelevant.
>
> --
> Puneet Kishor
> Just Another Creative Commoner
> ___
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

[Marc Vloemans]

Puneet +1


Vriendelijke groet,
Marc Vloemans


> Op 16 dec. 2015 om 17:56 heeft Puneet Kishor  het 
> volgende geschreven:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 16, 2015, at 3:07 PM, Pat Tressel  wrote:
>> 
>> If you want to point at a company as being the Evil Empire these days, you'd 
>> be more accurate pointing at Apple (cancelling licenses for Mac clones, 
>> suicides at Foxconn, restrictions on getting apps on iTunes, removing 
>> fitness tracker products from their stores because they might compete with 
>> the Apple Watch, etc. -- do a search for "apple anti competitive practices")
> 
> You were doing fine until above. The rest of your post is indeed very 
> relevant and useful and argues correctly for sanity instead of knee-jerk 
> accusations (until the above assertions, of course).
> 
> The point is, there seems to be a fairly strident Location Tech bashing going 
> on, and it is getting to be tiring. Let's stick to keeping OSGeo a fun, 
> useful champion of free and open geospatial without becoming 
> anti-anything-free, partisan and possibly irrelevant.
> 
> --
> Puneet Kishor
> Just Another Creative Commoner
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

[Pat Tressel]

I'm concerned about the vague accusations without evidence.  They also
don't seem relevant to the discussion about how one's name got on various
mailing lists.

I don't know if MailChimp is a "standard" for some type of companies but
> certainly I don't want it to be for communicating with OSGeo community.
>

MailChimp is a very popular product.  If you have a provable accusation
against them -- that they were acting **independently of the account
administrator** to alter lists, then that would be significant.  As Rob has
stated, MailChimp did not do something by itself.  The list was aggregated
from previous lists and events in which people participated.

OSGeo and FOSS4G is for the community and should be adherent to the OPEN
> (sorry but i want to be loud here) principle and to me this is not only in
> the licence you choose.
>

Does that mean you don't want to use any commercial tools, or only use
open-source products?  That's difficult.  For instance, I don't know any
non-commercial, open-source ISPs or domain registrars.  Or hosting
services, though one could run one's own servers.  Don't see how you'd get
around the need for a domain registrar though...use bare IP addresses?

How many time I have hear that Google spy you, and Microsoft without
> explicitly inform you collect information on your behavior while Linux do
> not do this kind of things?
>

Sorry, can't let that one stand...  You may have heard things but that does
not make things true.  Be careful what you believe or assume -- question
the rumors you hear.  Also, things change.  An opinion that might have been
valid once may not be any longer.

Google and Microsoft are companies.  Linux is not a company, it is an
open-source project.  A *company* that *provides a Linux distro* might do
marketing to you.  If you buy RedHat Enterprise Linux, you will likely get
on their mailing list.  (If I bought RHEL, they had *better* tell me what's
going on...)  You can likely opt out of most of their communications.

Google's *business* is making recommendations.  They provide personalized
advertising recommendation services.  If you use their free services then
you *opt in* to having them use your web searches to select ads for sites
that use Google advertising services.  If retailers use Google services to
place ads, and you shop on those retailers' sites, then they may show you
ads relating to your purchases.  This is just how personalized online
advertising works.  Frankly, I'd rather see ads for something I'm
interested in.  Google has repeatedly fought requests by governments to
divulge personal information.

Once Upon a Time, Microsoft earned its reputation as the Evil Empire,
mainly based on pressuring PC manufacturers to ship products with Windows
installed, and encouraging an argumentative employee culture.  However,
Microsoft has changed.  If you want to point at a company as being the Evil
Empire these days, you'd be more accurate pointing at Apple (cancelling
licenses for Mac clones, suicides at Foxconn, restrictions on getting apps
on iTunes, removing fitness tracker products from their stores because they
might compete with the Apple Watch, etc. -- do a search for "apple anti
competitive practices").  Microsoft now has significant open-source
programs.  They are also in the forefront among tech companies in reforming
their employee culture.  They *cancelled stack ranking*.  I don't know if I
can convey just how important and significant that is.  Most other tech
companies still do it in spite of research showing how it hurts performance
and employee morale.  Their new CEO, Satya Nadella, is an actual nice
person.  So, times change.

-- Pat
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[OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - SOMEONE IS WATCHING YOU :-o

[Massimiliano Cannata]

Just a funny note...

Nice to see that LocationTech has a FOSS4G email ( WOW!)

and.
that all the link on the received e-mail are connected with my user_id (I
have one? Yes)

and
that they are tracked (!!! without inform me !!!)

and...
that I have been added to a list that i'm not subscribed (
http://mailchimp.com/about/mcsv/)


But...
Where did they get my e-mail from?
why thy didn't simply post the news to the discussion-osgeo list?
what do they want to track?



*If you want to see the FOSS4G-NA without been traced here is the
link https://2016.foss4g-na.org/ *


#SPAM #NOT-SO-FAIR #LIKE-MICROSOFT-THAT-SPY-ME #SCARY

Best,
Maxi

-- 
*Massimiliano Cannata*

Professore SUPSI in ingegneria Geomatica

Responsabile settore Geomatica


Istituto scienze della Terra

Dipartimento ambiente costruzione e design

Scuola universitaria professionale della Svizzera italiana

Campus Trevano, CH - 6952 Canobbio

Tel. +41 (0)58 666 62 14

Fax +41 (0)58 666 62 09

massimiliano.cann...@supsi.ch

*www.supsi.ch/ist *
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - SOMEONE IS WATCHING YOU :-o

[Rob Emanuele]

Thanks for pointing out that it wasn't yet posted to OSGeo-Discuss, I just
posted it.
There's a one-click unsubscribe button from that mailing list, sorry for
the spam!

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 12:31 PM, Massimiliano Cannata <
massimiliano.cann...@supsi.ch> wrote:

> Just a funny note...
>
> Nice to see that LocationTech has a FOSS4G email ( WOW!)
>
> and.
> that all the link on the received e-mail are connected with my user_id (I
> have one? Yes)
>
> and
> that they are tracked (!!! without inform me !!!)
>
> and...
> that I have been added to a list that i'm not subscribed (
> http://mailchimp.com/about/mcsv/)
>
>
> But...
> Where did they get my e-mail from?
> why thy didn't simply post the news to the discussion-osgeo list?
> what do they want to track?
>
>
>
> *If you want to see the FOSS4G-NA without been traced here is the
> link https://2016.foss4g-na.org/ *
>
>
> #SPAM #NOT-SO-FAIR #LIKE-MICROSOFT-THAT-SPY-ME #SCARY
>
> Best,
> Maxi
>
> --
> *Massimiliano Cannata*
>
> Professore SUPSI in ingegneria Geomatica
>
> Responsabile settore Geomatica
>
>
> Istituto scienze della Terra
>
> Dipartimento ambiente costruzione e design
>
> Scuola universitaria professionale della Svizzera italiana
>
> Campus Trevano, CH - 6952 Canobbio
>
> Tel. +41 (0)58 666 62 14
>
> Fax +41 (0)58 666 62 09
>
> massimiliano.cann...@supsi.ch
>
> *www.supsi.ch/ist *
>
> ___
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> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
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>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - SOMEONE IS WATCHING YOU :-o

[David Bianco]

I believe MailChimp has policies against adding emails to your  list
without a user's authorization.

http://mailchimp.com/legal/acceptable_use/

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015, at 10:16, Rob Emanuele wrote:
> Thanks for pointing out that it wasn't yet posted to OSGeo-Discuss, I
> just posted it. There's a one-click unsubscribe button from that
> mailing list, sorry for the spam!
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 12:31 PM, Massimiliano Cannata
>  wrote:
>> Just a funny note...
>>
>> Nice to see that LocationTech has a FOSS4G email ( WOW!)
>>
>> and. that all the link on the received e-mail are connected with
>> my user_id (I have one? Yes)
>>
>> and that they are tracked (!!! without inform me !!!)
>>
>> and... that I have been added to a list that i'm not subscribed
>> (http://mailchimp.com/about/mcsv/)
>>
>>
>> But... Where did they get my e-mail from? why thy didn't simply post
>> the news to the discussion-osgeo list? what do they want to track?
>>
>>
>>
>> *If you want to see the FOSS4G-NA without been traced here is the
>> link https://2016.foss4g-na.org/*
>>
>>
>> #SPAM #NOT-SO-FAIR #LIKE-MICROSOFT-THAT-SPY-ME #SCARY
>>
>> Best, Maxi
>>
>> --
>> *Massimiliano Cannata* Professore SUPSI in ingegneria Geomatica


>> Responsabile settore Geomatica


>>


>> Istituto scienze della Terra


>>


>> Dipartimento ambiente costruzione e design


>> Scuola universitaria professionale della Svizzera italiana


>> Campus Trevano, CH - 6952 Canobbio


>>


>> Tel. +41 (0)58 666 62 14[1]


>> Fax +41 (0)58 666 62 09[2]


>> massimiliano.cann...@supsi.ch


>> _www.supsi.ch/ist_


>>
>> ___
>>
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>> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> _
> Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss



Links:

  1. tel:%2B41%20%280%2958%20666%2062%2014
  2. tel:%2B41%20%280%2958%20666%2062%2009
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

[Gert-Jan van der Weijden - Stichting OSGeo.nl]

First: I took the opportunity to change the subject of this thread to a less 
shouting version (CAPS LOCK and spam live side-by-side on my 
email-irritation-scale)

 

 

Second: Funny to see how the use of two different channels (mailing list vs. 
MailChimp) kind of reflect the different approaches to reach the -more of less- 
same goal.

Any expanding organisation / movement / community comes to a point where the 
classical channels (like a mailing list) reach their limits, 

and "new" marketing (yuch! marketing==ugly & bad!) channels & methods may help 
to stretch beyond borders. Which comes at a cost (as Maxi tries to tell, I 
guess).

 

Food for thought for the Board face2face meeting in January (and for the entire 
community) to determine 

- what our goals are

- what our values are

- and how these two compare to each other.

 

 

Kind regards, 

 

Gert-Jan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Van: Discuss [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] Namens Rob Emanuele
Verzonden: dinsdag 15 december 2015 21:51
Aan: David Bianco
CC: OSGeo Discussions
Onderwerp: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - SOMEONE IS WATCHING YOU :-o

 

Hey David,

 

The emails on the mailing list were cultivated by past FOSS4G NA attendees, 
people opting in in other ways, and from lists that were given by members of 
this and last year's committee. If we're spamming people who didn't opt in, it 
is not intentional and apologies for the spam (the world certainly doesn't need 
more spam). We'll take a look at the list moving forward to try to prevent from 
sending emails to anyone who didn't opt in.

 

Thanks,

Rob

 

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 2:48 PM, David Bianco <m...@davidbianco.net> wrote:

I believe MailChimp has policies against adding emails to your list without a 
user's authorization.

 

http://mailchimp.com/legal/acceptable_use/

 

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015, at 10:16, Rob Emanuele wrote:

Thanks for pointing out that it wasn't yet posted to OSGeo-Discuss, I just 
posted it.

There's a one-click unsubscribe button from that mailing list, sorry for the 
spam!

 

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 12:31 PM, Massimiliano Cannata 
<massimiliano.cann...@supsi.ch> wrote:

Just a funny note...

 

Nice to see that LocationTech has a FOSS4G email ( WOW!) 

 

and. 

that all the link on the received e-mail are connected with my user_id (I have 
one? Yes) 

 

and 

that they are tracked (!!! without inform me !!!) 

 

and... 

that I have been added to a list that i'm not subscribed 
(http://mailchimp.com/about/mcsv/)

 

 

But...

Where did they get my e-mail from?

why thy didn't simply post the news to the discussion-osgeo list?

what do they want to track?

 

 

 

If you want to see the FOSS4G-NA without been traced here is the link 
https://2016.foss4g-na.org/

 

 

#SPAM #NOT-SO-FAIR #LIKE-MICROSOFT-THAT-SPY-ME #SCARY

 

Best,

Maxi

 

-- 

Massimiliano Cannata

Professore SUPSI in ingegneria Geomatica

Responsabile settore Geomatica

 

Istituto scienze della Terra

 

Dipartimento ambiente costruzione e design

Scuola universitaria professionale della Svizzera italiana

Campus Trevano, CH - 6952 Canobbio

 

Tel. +41 (0)58 666 62 14 <tel:%2B41%20%280%2958%20666%2062%2014> 

Fax +41 (0)58 666 62 09 <tel:%2B41%20%280%2958%20666%2062%2009> 

massimiliano.cann...@supsi.ch

www.supsi.ch/ist

 

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - SOMEONE IS WATCHING YOU :-o

[Rob Emanuele]

Hey David,

The emails on the mailing list were cultivated by past FOSS4G NA attendees,
people opting in in other ways, and from lists that were given by members
of this and last year's committee. If we're spamming people who didn't opt
in, it is not intentional and apologies for the spam (the world certainly
doesn't need more spam). We'll take a look at the list moving forward to
try to prevent from sending emails to anyone who didn't opt in.

Thanks,
Rob

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 2:48 PM, David Bianco  wrote:

> I believe MailChimp has policies against adding emails to your list
> without a user's authorization.
>
> http://mailchimp.com/legal/acceptable_use/
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015, at 10:16, Rob Emanuele wrote:
>
> Thanks for pointing out that it wasn't yet posted to OSGeo-Discuss, I just
> posted it.
> There's a one-click unsubscribe button from that mailing list, sorry for
> the spam!
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 12:31 PM, Massimiliano Cannata <
> massimiliano.cann...@supsi.ch> wrote:
>
> Just a funny note...
>
> Nice to see that LocationTech has a FOSS4G email ( WOW!)
>
> and.
> that all the link on the received e-mail are connected with my user_id (I
> have one? Yes)
>
> and
> that they are tracked (!!! without inform me !!!)
>
> and...
> that I have been added to a list that i'm not subscribed (
> http://mailchimp.com/about/mcsv/)
>
>
> But...
> Where did they get my e-mail from?
> why thy didn't simply post the news to the discussion-osgeo list?
> what do they want to track?
>
>
>
> *If you want to see the FOSS4G-NA without been traced here is the
> link https://2016.foss4g-na.org/ *
>
>
> #SPAM #NOT-SO-FAIR #LIKE-MICROSOFT-THAT-SPY-ME #SCARY
>
> Best,
> Maxi
>
> --
> *Massimiliano Cannata*
>
> Professore SUPSI in ingegneria Geomatica
>
> Responsabile settore Geomatica
>
>
> Istituto scienze della Terra
>
>
> Dipartimento ambiente costruzione e design
>
> Scuola universitaria professionale della Svizzera italiana
>
> Campus Trevano, CH - 6952 Canobbio
>
>
> Tel. +41 (0)58 666 62 14
>
> Fax +41 (0)58 666 62 09
>
> massimiliano.cann...@supsi.ch
>
> *www.supsi.ch/ist *
>
> ___
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>
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>
>
>
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