Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Remote routing solutions

2009-10-12 Thread Mateusz Loskot
Miguel Montesinos wrote:
 Hi,
 
 As an example, we built a routing service for tourism pruposes using
 only FOSS. Components were these:
 
 - DB PostGIS
 - Routing service: Customization of gvSIG routing capabilities adapted
 for running on Java EE container (Tomcat).
 - Interface: Web service
 - Client: 2 clients:
   * Web client, open-layers based
   * Mobile client: Java CLDC brand new app.
 
 We had to use our own routing service, as we were using public
 administration official cartography, with tourist info.
 
 The routing service had the following capabilities:
 
 - Point to point calculation (fastest path)
 - TSP (Travel Salesman Problem)
 - On foot / car transport method
 - Tourist places near to the route just calculated
 - Route instructions (e.g. trun right on ...)
 
 Here you can have a look at the web client [1], sorry it's only in
 Spanish, but easy to understand (I suppose). Here you have a
 presentation [2] we made about the mobile side in the Spanish Free GIS
 days (like our national FOSS4G). It's only in Spanish but you have some
 slides with architectures components that can give you extra details.
 
 Everything developed is GPL, but our customer has to publish source code
 in its official forge and it's a pending task. Nevertheless if you need
 some code, just ask.
 
 [1] http://www.turismoextremadura.com/PINTUREX/live/PV.html 
 [2]
 http://www.sigte.udg.edu/jornadassiglibre2009/uploads/Presentaciones/Pre
 s_3.odp 
 
 Regards,
 
 Miguel
 
 
 
 -Mensaje original-
 De: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
 [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] En
 nombre de Mateusz Loskot
 Enviado el: martes, 06 de octubre de 2009 23:04
 Para: Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
 Asunto: [OSGeo-Discuss] Remote routing solutions

 Folks,

 May I kindly ask for a bit of brainstorming about
 available and programmatically callable,
 optionally usable,
 optionally effective,
 optionally robust
 solutions of remote routing services?

 The use case is very simple:
 1) client is a non-Web thin client
 2) client has access to the Internet
 3) client knows two locations start and destination
 4) client wants to know how to travel from start to destination

 What are available options to achieve that? Where if availability
 means:
 * accessible for public
 * free of charge
 * does not require to sign anything,

 Custom solutions built on OGC-enabled stack (e.g. PyWPS, etc.) is also
 an option to discuss.

 Any input greatly appreciated.

Miguel,

Thank you very much for all these references. It's a lot of stuff
to crunch :-)

Cheers
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Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net
Charter Member of OSGeo, http://osgeo.org
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[OSGeo-Discuss] Remote routing solutions

2009-10-06 Thread Mateusz Loskot
Folks,

May I kindly ask for a bit of brainstorming about
available and programmatically callable,
optionally usable,
optionally effective,
optionally robust
solutions of remote routing services?

The use case is very simple:
1) client is a non-Web thin client
2) client has access to the Internet
3) client knows two locations start and destination
4) client wants to know how to travel from start to destination

What are available options to achieve that? Where if availability means:
* accessible for public
* free of charge
* does not require to sign anything,

Custom solutions built on OGC-enabled stack (e.g. PyWPS, etc.) is also
an option to discuss.

Any input greatly appreciated.

Best regards,
-- 
Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net
Charter Member of OSGeo, http://osgeo.org
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Remote routing solutions

2009-10-06 Thread Stephen Woodbridge

Mateusz Loskot wrote:

Folks,

May I kindly ask for a bit of brainstorming about
available and programmatically callable,
optionally usable,
optionally effective,
optionally robust
solutions of remote routing services?

The use case is very simple:
1) client is a non-Web thin client
2) client has access to the Internet
3) client knows two locations start and destination
4) client wants to know how to travel from start to destination

What are available options to achieve that? Where if availability means:
* accessible for public
* free of charge
* does not require to sign anything,

Custom solutions built on OGC-enabled stack (e.g. PyWPS, etc.) is also
an option to discuss.

Any input greatly appreciated.

Best regards,


Mateusz,

Is the client looking for a solution that runs somewhere on the net that 
they can make requests to, or are they looking to setup a server with 
data and a routing engine?


So I'll plug my infant and immature routing engine project:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/opengraphrouter/

Also pgRouting is an option.

The big issues in most cases will be data. Some people are doing routing 
with OpenStreetMap and pgRouting. If they want accurate (ie: navigable 
routes then they will probably need something based on Navteq or 
TeleAtlas) or if they are look at a small county or state wide area then 
they might be able to get data from the local governments like 
http://www.mass.gov/mgis/mapping.htm


Because good data is expensive and licensed, in most cases by 
transactions, it is not likely that you will find services equivalent to 
Google that are free.


-Steve W
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Remote routing solutions

2009-10-06 Thread Michael Weisman
GraphServer is worth a look too. It can even do multi-modal routing
and is compatible with osm and google transit data.

http://github.com/bmander/graphserver

Michael

On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Markus Neteler nete...@osgeo.org wrote:
 On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 11:21 PM, Stephen Woodbridge
 wood...@swoodbridge.com wrote:
 Mateusz Loskot wrote:
 ...
 The big issues in most cases will be data. Some people are doing routing
 with OpenStreetMap

 ... for example:
 OpenStreetMap routing service
 http://yournavigation.org/

 Markus
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Remote routing solutions

2009-10-06 Thread Mateusz Loskot
Stephen Woodbridge wrote:
 Mateusz Loskot wrote:
 Folks,

 May I kindly ask for a bit of brainstorming about
 available and programmatically callable,
 optionally usable,
 optionally effective,
 optionally robust
 solutions of remote routing services?

 The use case is very simple:
 1) client is a non-Web thin client
 2) client has access to the Internet
 3) client knows two locations start and destination
 4) client wants to know how to travel from start to destination

 What are available options to achieve that? Where if availability means:
 * accessible for public
 * free of charge
 * does not require to sign anything,

 Custom solutions built on OGC-enabled stack (e.g. PyWPS, etc.) is also
 an option to discuss.

 Any input greatly appreciated.

 Best regards,
 
 Mateusz,
 
 Is the client looking for a solution that runs somewhere on the net that
 they can make requests to, or are they looking to setup a server with
 data and a routing engine?


I intentionally didn't write anything about that as an indicator that it
does not matter. I mean, both options arepossible.
I can install (almost) anything or I can use something that's ready now.
Certainly, the latter would be easier.

By the way, I use word client as software client but not as a person
or company who asked me to deliver solution.
Actually, I'm thinking about implementing and delivering something on my
own, as an Open Source Software. However, that's another story.

 So I'll plug my infant and immature routing engine project:
 http://sourceforge.net/projects/opengraphrouter/

Interesting. I will take a look. Of course I will, I've seen the Boost
stuff over there in SVN, hehe ;-)

 Also pgRouting is an option.

I know about it but...data, bloody data!

 The big issues in most cases will be data.

Yes.

 Some people are doing routing with OpenStreetMap and pgRouting.

What are the results of OSM evaluation for routing purposes?

 If they want accurate (ie: navigable
 routes then they will probably need something based on Navteq or
 TeleAtlas) or if they are look at a small county or state wide area then
 they might be able to get data from the local governments like
 http://www.mass.gov/mgis/mapping.htm

At this particular moment, I don't care about data.
It probably silly as any software without data is useless, but first I'm
interested in setting up some remote service (software) infrastructure
(a demo, a testbed) that will allow a *thin* client to exploit and
benefit of routing.
This could be tested using any data that are available.
If proved working, finding proper data would be next step.

 Because good data is expensive and licensed, in most cases by
 transactions, it is not likely that you will find services equivalent to
 Google that are free.

I'm am an incurable dreamer but that incurable to aim to beat Google :-)

Best regards,
-- 
Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net
Charter Member of OSGeo, http://osgeo.org
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Remote routing solutions

2009-10-06 Thread Mateusz Loskot
Markus Neteler wrote:
 On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 11:21 PM, Stephen Woodbridge
 wood...@swoodbridge.com wrote:
 Mateusz Loskot wrote:
 ...
 The big issues in most cases will be data. Some people are doing routing
 with OpenStreetMap
 
 ... for example:
 OpenStreetMap routing service
 http://yournavigation.org/

It looks interesting with public API:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/YOURS

Best regards,
-- 
Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net
Charter Member of OSGeo, http://osgeo.org
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Remote routing solutions

2009-10-06 Thread Stephen Woodbridge

Mateusz Loskot wrote:

Stephen Woodbridge wrote:

Mateusz Loskot wrote:

Folks,

May I kindly ask for a bit of brainstorming about
available and programmatically callable,
optionally usable,
optionally effective,
optionally robust
solutions of remote routing services?

The use case is very simple:
1) client is a non-Web thin client
2) client has access to the Internet
3) client knows two locations start and destination
4) client wants to know how to travel from start to destination

What are available options to achieve that? Where if availability means:
* accessible for public
* free of charge
* does not require to sign anything,

Custom solutions built on OGC-enabled stack (e.g. PyWPS, etc.) is also
an option to discuss.

Any input greatly appreciated.

Best regards,

Mateusz,

Is the client looking for a solution that runs somewhere on the net that
they can make requests to, or are they looking to setup a server with
data and a routing engine?



I intentionally didn't write anything about that as an indicator that it
does not matter. I mean, both options arepossible.
I can install (almost) anything or I can use something that's ready now.
Certainly, the latter would be easier.

By the way, I use word client as software client but not as a person
or company who asked me to deliver solution.
Actually, I'm thinking about implementing and delivering something on my
own, as an Open Source Software. However, that's another story.


So I'll plug my infant and immature routing engine project:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/opengraphrouter/


Interesting. I will take a look. Of course I will, I've seen the Boost
stuff over there in SVN, hehe ;-)


Also pgRouting is an option.


I know about it but...data, bloody data!


The big issues in most cases will be data.


Yes.


Some people are doing routing with OpenStreetMap and pgRouting.


What are the results of OSM evaluation for routing purposes?


If they want accurate (ie: navigable
routes then they will probably need something based on Navteq or
TeleAtlas) or if they are look at a small county or state wide area then
they might be able to get data from the local governments like
http://www.mass.gov/mgis/mapping.htm


At this particular moment, I don't care about data.
It probably silly as any software without data is useless, but first I'm
interested in setting up some remote service (software) infrastructure
(a demo, a testbed) that will allow a *thin* client to exploit and
benefit of routing.
This could be tested using any data that are available.
If proved working, finding proper data would be next step.


Because good data is expensive and licensed, in most cases by
transactions, it is not likely that you will find services equivalent to
Google that are free.


I'm am an incurable dreamer but that incurable to aim to beat Google :-)

Best regards,


Mateusz,

Seems like you have a bunch of good options in front of you. If you are 
so inclined to code something new, I would be interested in discussing 
your ideas and combining resources with OpenGraphRouter. Our GSoC 
student is interested in continuing work on the project, but he nuked 
his laptop and is waiting for a replacement. He is also in Bangladesh so 
TZs can be a challenge for us at times, but we have been making it work 
so far.


-Steve
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Remote routing solutions

2009-10-06 Thread Dan Putler
There are actually several different specialized routing engines that
work with OpenStreetMap data. The summary page on this on the
OpenStreetMap Wiki is (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Routing).

And yes, data is a _huge_ issue. For many folks OpenStreetMap is likely
to be the only choice. It needs improvement for its use in a number of
applications, but it is fast becoming one of the largest (if not the
largest) databases of public geodata available. One problem is that in
some sense it may now be too large. From a routing point of view it
needs to have its road segments (ways) broken at intersections, and
include address range information (the de facto method of doing this is
the Karlsruhe Schema,
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:associatedStreet, although
the percentage of street ways that have this information tagged to them
is small). Adding this information would generate a lot more data in
what is already a huge database. Given this, I think there is a need for
some organized thought as to what could be done to create a routing
database based at least partially on OpenStreetMap data, that along the
way improves the main OpenStreetMap database. For example, in many parts
of the US OpenStreetMap data consists almost entirely of uploaded (2006
vintage) TIGER/Line data (with the address range data stripped off),
while in many of these areas county level center line road data is
publicly available (Allegheny County, PA is one such location). Given
the size database issues, and the culture of the OpenStreetMap
community, it seems unlikely that a raw planet dump would ever make an
ideal public routing database, but it could be the keystone in providing
one.

Dan

On Tue, 2009-10-06 at 23:36 +0200, Markus Neteler wrote:
 On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 11:21 PM, Stephen Woodbridge
 wood...@swoodbridge.com wrote:
  Mateusz Loskot wrote:
 ...
  The big issues in most cases will be data. Some people are doing routing
  with OpenStreetMap
 
 ... for example:
 OpenStreetMap routing service
 http://yournavigation.org/
 
 Markus
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Sauder School of Business
University of British Columbia

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Remote routing solutions

2009-10-06 Thread Chris Holmes
We've actually also just kicked off an open source routing engine 
project, attempting to collaborate with all the open source trip 
planners we knew about at the time.


See http://opentripplanner.org/

We're working with Brandon of GraphServer, as well as the developers of 
Five Points (see http://new.atltransit.com/), One Bus Away (which has a 
trip planner) and ByCycle.org


Focused on multi-modal, to replace the routing engine at 
http://ride.trimet.org/ (currently the only proprietary piece of their 
whole map).  Though we might also have a bike routing use case soon.


Steven - it'd be great to collaborate in some way: if it's too late to 
collaborate on code we could at least build a common API.  In time we're 
hoping to establish a nice library of transit specific GeoExt type 
components.  So people could easily use OpenLayers and Ext.js to compose 
a transit map like Portland's.  It'd be great if those components could 
talk to the same routing API, and indeed could be the start of an 
improved open standard.


best regards,

Chris

Stephen Woodbridge wrote:

Mateusz Loskot wrote:

Folks,

May I kindly ask for a bit of brainstorming about
available and programmatically callable,
optionally usable,
optionally effective,
optionally robust
solutions of remote routing services?

The use case is very simple:
1) client is a non-Web thin client
2) client has access to the Internet
3) client knows two locations start and destination
4) client wants to know how to travel from start to destination

What are available options to achieve that? Where if availability means:
* accessible for public
* free of charge
* does not require to sign anything,

Custom solutions built on OGC-enabled stack (e.g. PyWPS, etc.) is also
an option to discuss.

Any input greatly appreciated.

Best regards,


Mateusz,

Is the client looking for a solution that runs somewhere on the net that 
they can make requests to, or are they looking to setup a server with 
data and a routing engine?


So I'll plug my infant and immature routing engine project:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/opengraphrouter/

Also pgRouting is an option.

The big issues in most cases will be data. Some people are doing routing 
with OpenStreetMap and pgRouting. If they want accurate (ie: navigable 
routes then they will probably need something based on Navteq or 
TeleAtlas) or if they are look at a small county or state wide area then 
they might be able to get data from the local governments like 
http://www.mass.gov/mgis/mapping.htm


Because good data is expensive and licensed, in most cases by 
transactions, it is not likely that you will find services equivalent to 
Google that are free.


-Steve W
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OpenGeo - http://opengeo.org
Expert service straight from the developers.
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