Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: land records management with open source GIS
Hi, nice to know this development that Ecuador wishes Open Source Solution for Land records management. Some clarification needed: 'Non Commercial Open Source' -- Does this mean that they dont want company to sell them a open source solutions / services ? COPY PASTING THE CONCERNED LINES 'all software at the national level must be non-commercial open source'. OR Commercial to be read as Proprietary Ravi Kumar --- On Thu, 15/7/10, P Kishor punk.k...@gmail.com wrote: From: P Kishor punk.k...@gmail.com Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: land records management with open source GIS To: OSGeo Discussions discuss@lists.osgeo.org Date: Thursday, 15 July, 2010, 8:54 PM top posting a follow-up to an inquiry re. open source cadastral/lrm systems -- The inquiry was regarding implementation in Ecuador (by SA, I meant South America, not South Africa -- apologies for the repeated confusion I caused). As of Jun 22 (my last conversation with my friend who initiated this query), they had received an ok to post a notice in Development Business, (which, I assume, is either a paper/online/both outlet for international jobs) for entities with interest and experience in open source solutions in cadastral/lrm systems. They would then invited the respondents to demonstrate their solutions, perhaps 5-10 key functions/applications. Those that respond to the demonstration phase, and do so adequately (whatever that means), would be invited to bid on the project. I have sent another email off to my friend to determine if the notice in dev. biz has already gone out, and if there is a link to it somewhere. I will keep the list posted if I learn something new. On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 12:12 AM, P Kishor punk.k...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, Thanks for replying, everyone. Instead of replying to each one of you separately, I am replying to myself, primarily to add more info to this query. On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 12:24 AM, P Kishor punk.k...@gmail.com wrote: does anyone know of an existing product, or a firm that develops such a product catering to cadastral and land records management, but using a completely open source stack? A friend of mine is working in a SA country that has a new policy that all software at the national level must be non-commercial open source. A nice idea, but it plays havoc with their current cadastral and registry records management system running on a commercial, closed-source (well known) software platform. They now want to expand from a few municipality pilot to 10 times as many munis, and to eventually cover the entire country in the next decade. Their desire is to try replicate the current system using open source software. They have an estimate for the programming job, primarily based on the amount spent on programming the current system (not including the licenses for the base, commercial software). Their hope is to spend a similar amount programming an open source solution that can be replicated in the 200 or so munis without any additional cost for the software licenses. They have seen at least one other open source cadastral system implemented in a country in Africa, but found that system to be very weak, amateurish. -- Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu --- Assertions are politics; backing up assertions with evidence is science === ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: land records management with open source GIS
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 6:26 AM, Christopher Schmidt crschm...@crschmidt.net wrote: On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 12:12:43AM -0500, P Kishor wrote: Hi all, Thanks for replying, everyone. Instead of replying to each one of you separately, I am replying to myself, primarily to add more info to this query. On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 12:24 AM, P Kishor punk.k...@gmail.com wrote: does anyone know of an existing product, or a firm that develops such a product catering to cadastral and land records management, but using a completely open source stack? A friend of mine is working in a SA country that has a new policy that all software at the national level must be non-commercial open source. One of these clauses makes sense, one of them does not. Why would you limit yourself to *non* commercial Open Source? I am just the messenger, so I don't know the reason why. Don't people realize that hiring someone with expertise in a field is sometimes better -- depending on your in-house expertise that exists -- than learning it all on your own? I think they do want to hire someone with expertise. They are willing to pay for it. Hence the query. Open Source isn't supposed to mean 'free' :( At least they're acknowledging that there will be some costs, but overall, I feel icky whenever I see someone say things like 'non-commercial open source'; the whole point of the 'open' part is that it shouldn't be a problem if it's commercial. Regards, -- Christopher Schmidt Web Developer ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu --- Assertions are politics; backing up assertions with evidence is science === ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: land records management with open source GIS
Puneet, I'd recommend they allocate more (twice as much?, more?) for Open Source programming and integration than they did for the closed-source system. Likely there will problem domain specific holes in the system needing to be filled in (e.g. ensuring topological integrity of parcel boundaries, historical aspect of land tenure, etc). The good thing is they've already got a current system, so the Requirements Phase for the new system should be easier. Best Regards, Brent Fraser GeoAnalytic Inc. P Kishor wrote: Hi all, Thanks for replying, everyone. Instead of replying to each one of you separately, I am replying to myself, primarily to add more info to this query. On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 12:24 AM, P Kishor punk.k...@gmail.com wrote: does anyone know of an existing product, or a firm that develops such a product catering to cadastral and land records management, but using a completely open source stack? A friend of mine is working in a SA country that has a new policy that all software at the national level must be non-commercial open source. A nice idea, but it plays havoc with their current cadastral and registry records management system running on a commercial, closed-source (well known) software platform. They now want to expand from a few municipality pilot to 10 times as many munis, and to eventually cover the entire country in the next decade. Their desire is to try replicate the current system using open source software. They have an estimate for the programming job, primarily based on the amount spent on programming the current system (not including the licenses for the base, commercial software). Their hope is to spend a similar amount programming an open source solution that can be replicated in the 200 or so munis without any additional cost for the software licenses. They have seen at least one other open source cadastral system implemented in a country in Africa, but found that system to be very weak, amateurish. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: land records management with open source GIS
A friend of mine is working in a SA country that has a new policy that all software at the national level must be non-commercial open source. One of these clauses makes sense, one of them does not. Why would you limit yourself to *non* commercial Open Source? (I parsed the original as meaning non-commercial [and] open source, with non-commercial being a technically incorrect but informally understood term meaning not proprietary -- redundant, in this case, with the use of the term open.) -mpg ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: land records management with open source GIS
Hi Puneet, Now I'm having fun trying to guess where you're talking about! I just read about an ArcGIS-based pilot that was done a couple of years ago for Zanzibar - so is it Tanzania? Please ignore me if you're not at liberty to name names. Steve Stanton --- On Tue, 22/6/10, P Kishor punk.k...@gmail.com wrote: From: P Kishor punk.k...@gmail.com Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: land records management with open source GIS To: OSGeo Discussions discuss@lists.osgeo.org Date: Tuesday, 22 June, 2010, 6:12 Hi all, Thanks for replying, everyone. Instead of replying to each one of you separately, I am replying to myself, primarily to add more info to this query. On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 12:24 AM, P Kishor punk.k...@gmail.com wrote: does anyone know of an existing product, or a firm that develops such a product catering to cadastral and land records management, but using a completely open source stack? A friend of mine is working in a SA country that has a new policy that all software at the national level must be non-commercial open source. A nice idea, but it plays havoc with their current cadastral and registry records management system running on a commercial, closed-source (well known) software platform. They now want to expand from a few municipality pilot to 10 times as many munis, and to eventually cover the entire country in the next decade. Their desire is to try replicate the current system using open source software. They have an estimate for the programming job, primarily based on the amount spent on programming the current system (not including the licenses for the base, commercial software). Their hope is to spend a similar amount programming an open source solution that can be replicated in the 200 or so munis without any additional cost for the software licenses. They have seen at least one other open source cadastral system implemented in a country in Africa, but found that system to be very weak, amateurish. -- Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu --- Assertions are politics; backing up assertions with evidence is science === ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: land records management with open source GIS
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 3:54 PM, STEPHEN STANTON sstan...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi Puneet, Now I'm having fun trying to guess where you're talking about! I just read about an ArcGIS-based pilot that was done a couple of years ago for Zanzibar - so is it Tanzania? You are off by a continent. SA = South America, not South African. In any case, Tanzania née Zanzibar would be Eastern Africa, no? Please ignore me if you're not at liberty to name names. I don't know if I can name names, so I am withholding on doing so until I can determine for sure. Steve Stanton --- On Tue, 22/6/10, P Kishor punk.k...@gmail.com wrote: From: P Kishor punk.k...@gmail.com Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: land records management with open source GIS To: OSGeo Discussions discuss@lists.osgeo.org Date: Tuesday, 22 June, 2010, 6:12 Hi all, Thanks for replying, everyone. Instead of replying to each one of you separately, I am replying to myself, primarily to add more info to this query. On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 12:24 AM, P Kishor punk.k...@gmail.com wrote: does anyone know of an existing product, or a firm that develops such a product catering to cadastral and land records management, but using a completely open source stack? A friend of mine is working in a SA country that has a new policy that all software at the national level must be non-commercial open source. A nice idea, but it plays havoc with their current cadastral and registry records management system running on a commercial, closed-source (well known) software platform. They now want to expand from a few municipality pilot to 10 times as many munis, and to eventually cover the entire country in the next decade. Their desire is to try replicate the current system using open source software. They have an estimate for the programming job, primarily based on the amount spent on programming the current system (not including the licenses for the base, commercial software). Their hope is to spend a similar amount programming an open source solution that can be replicated in the 200 or so munis without any additional cost for the software licenses. They have seen at least one other open source cadastral system implemented in a country in Africa, but found that system to be very weak, amateurish. -- Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu --- Assertions are politics; backing up assertions with evidence is science === ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu --- Assertions are politics; backing up assertions with evidence is science === ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: land records management with open source GIS
Well yes, I was stretching Tanzania into southern Africa. OK, so my radar is currently being realigned. I'll tell you where it is tomorrow. Maybe. Steve --- On Tue, 22/6/10, P Kishor punk.k...@gmail.com wrote: From: P Kishor punk.k...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: land records management with open source GIS To: OSGeo Discussions discuss@lists.osgeo.org Date: Tuesday, 22 June, 2010, 22:06 On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 3:54 PM, STEPHEN STANTON sstan...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi Puneet, Now I'm having fun trying to guess where you're talking about! I just read about an ArcGIS-based pilot that was done a couple of years ago for Zanzibar - so is it Tanzania? You are off by a continent. SA = South America, not South African. In any case, Tanzania née Zanzibar would be Eastern Africa, no? ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: land records management with open source GIS
Hi I am working on an OSCAR implementation as part of my PhD study at Otago University in NZ[1]. This project started with initial funding from the FAO. Given the vagaries of the land administration domain, some approaches are heading down the path of simplification and harmonisation especially for the thematic data (parcel ownership etc) e.g.[2]. I am investigating the use of OWL (W3C) to allow variation in the 'schema' and 'process' to reduce the 'cost' of adaption and modification of software. I hope to be able to provide some OS components soon for others to look at, but the work isn't quite ready for this as yet. We do have a wiki for the initial project (https://source.otago.ac.nz/oscar/OSCAR_Home). This hasn't been maintained during the past year or so, but we are working towards adding to to the content and making updated code available for download. [1]www.fig.net/pub/fig2010/papers/ts04a5Cts04a_hay_hall_4519.pdf [2]www.fig.net/pub/fig2009/papers/ts06a/ts06a_lemmen_oosterom_etal_3282.pdf regards Geoff Hay From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of STEPHEN STANTON [sstan...@btinternet.com] Sent: Wednesday, 23 June 2010 10:56 a.m. To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: land records management with open source GIS Well yes, I was stretching Tanzania into southern Africa. OK, so my radar is currently being realigned. I'll tell you where it is tomorrow. Maybe. Steve --- On Tue, 22/6/10, P Kishor punk.k...@gmail.com wrote: From: P Kishor punk.k...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: land records management with open source GIS To: OSGeo Discussions discuss@lists.osgeo.org Date: Tuesday, 22 June, 2010, 22:06 On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 3:54 PM, STEPHEN STANTON sstan...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi Puneet, Now I'm having fun trying to guess where you're talking about! I just read about an ArcGIS-based pilot that was done a couple of years ago for Zanzibar - so is it Tanzania? You are off by a continent. SA = South America, not South African. In any case, Tanzania née Zanzibar would be Eastern Africa, no? ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
