RE: PPIG discuss: Object-oriented vs. procedural programming: material for a study.

2005-03-08 Thread Walter Milner
Linda McIver did a PhD on 'Syntactic and Semantic Issue sin Introductory Programming Education' Monash Uni. Also Burton and Bruhn 'Teaching programming in the OOP Era' SIGCSE Bulletin \Vol 35 Number 2 June 2003 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf

Re: RE: PPIG discuss: Object-oriented vs. procedural programming: material for a study.

2005-03-08 Thread gkeefer
i think a language with oo and non-oo implementation could be beneficial as both subject groups could be introduced to fundamental concepts of the language (like variables, operators etc.). later on they could be separated into oo and non-oo courses. for example pascal or perl have both

Re: PPIG discuss: Competence (was: About natural naming)

2005-03-08 Thread Derek M Jones
Richard, a pen. All were able to produce code that did something tangible within the time, which is all we asked for. They worked hard and fast that's for sure! I wonder how their performance compared to people who were given lots of time to complete the task. There is a general assumption that

Re: PPIG discuss: Competence (was: About natural naming)

2005-03-08 Thread gkeefer
Richard Bartlett [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb am 08.03.2005, 15:57:35: All were comfortable going straight to coding, and pen and paper hardly got used. What struck me was how they consciously used the coding process to gain immediate feedback about their approach. When questioned, it was

Re: PPIG discuss: Competence (was: About natural naming)

2005-03-08 Thread Derek M Jones
gerold, When questioned, it was clear that going straight to coding, and using the coding and execution cycle to feedback into the design from the start, were the norm in their working habits. This is an example of what I call the 'extreme extreme programming' outlook naturally adopted

RE: PPIG discuss: Competence (was: About natural naming)

2005-03-08 Thread Jacques Carette
Why is it OK for programmers to just code-up software, but it is not OK for architects to just build a house the same way? Why is it that only hobbyists hack-up circuits, but electrical engineers design them first? The problem with programming is that writing small programs is TOO EASY. So

RE: PPIG discuss: Competence (was: About natural naming)

2005-03-08 Thread Derek M Jones
Jacques, Why is it OK for programmers to just code-up software, but it is not OK for architects to just build a house the same way? Why is it that only hobbyists hack-up circuits, but electrical engineers design them first? I did not say it was OK, rather that software often lives longer, and

RE: PPIG discuss: Competence (was: About natural naming)

2005-03-08 Thread Jacques Carette
Want to improve the quality of software engineers? Start putting a few of them in jail. That is get the attention of those in the field. I agree that software vendors / developers ought to be liable for the mis-behaviour of their software, the exact same way that hardware vendors are.

RE: PPIG discuss: Competence (was: About natural naming)

2005-03-08 Thread Ruven E Brooks
Regardless of the legal implications, software developers/vendoers DO get charged financially for the mis-behavior of their software. The charge comes in the form of support costs which in many organizations exceed development costs. In my organization, that fact has had a huge impact on the

RE: PPIG discuss: Competence (was: About natural naming)

2005-03-08 Thread Jacques Carette
Title: Message Oh, I really would have liked it if that were the case in the industry I was in! In the "mathematical software" industry (ie Matlab, Mathematica, Maple, Octave, Scilab, etc), the users seem to be highly forgiving, and the support costs are very small. As long as the core

RE: PPIG discuss: Competence (was: About natural naming)

2005-03-08 Thread Ruven E Brooks
Well, things might have even changed in the mathematical software industry: From the Mathworks web site: Release 14 with Service Pack 2 provides updates to MATLAB 7, Simulink 6, and 68 other products. The primary focus of this service pack is on quality improvements; it also contains more than