Re: PPIG discuss: Programmer education argument-starter of the week

2007-07-05 Thread Charles Knutson
On Jul 4, 2007, at 10:55 AM, Frank Wales wrote: Charles Knutson wrote: I believe there is a taxonomy of four types of people, relative to professional software construction: 1) Those born to code, who need almost no coaching; 2) Those born capable but in need of training in order to be

Re: PPIG discuss: Programmer education argument-starter of the week

2007-07-04 Thread Frank Wales
William Billingsley wrote: Consider for a moment if we could identify the cognitive requirements of a profession, the cognitive abilities of candidates, and could simply cross-check between them to see if candidate X could achieve proficiency in profession Y. I refer you my forthcoming

Re: PPIG discuss: Programmer education argument-starter of the week

2007-07-04 Thread Frank Wales
I just wrote: Rather than just categories or types, I'd actually propose a spectrum Did I say 'spectrum'? Apparently, I meant 'Humpy the camel': http://www.cs.mdx.ac.uk/research/PhDArea/saeed/paper1.pdf -- Frank Wales [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: PPIG discuss: Programmer education argument-starter of the week

2007-07-02 Thread Sarah Mount
On 01/07/07, Lindsay Marshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bjorn Reese wrote: The students used longer titles, such as count number of occurrences and find if any element is of some sort, whereas the professionals used short titles, such as count and find. This could indicate that the looping

Re: PPIG discuss: Programmer education argument-starter of the week

2007-07-02 Thread Frank Wales
Oh, by the way... A while ago, Mark Guzdial wrote: [...] If we're agreed that there is no geek gene, I don't agree with that contention at all, in the sense that I believe that some people have a knack for technology that others don't, that that knack is as much a part of their make up as their

RE: PPIG discuss: Programmer education argument-starter of the week

2007-07-02 Thread Lindsay Marshall
So I would be, frankly, astonished if it could be shown that *everyone* is equally trainable in programming to a professional standard, any more than it could be shown that everyone could learn to be a professional golfer or a professional artist or a professional mathematician or a

Re: PPIG discuss: Programmer education argument-starter of the week

2007-07-02 Thread ok
On 3 Jul 2007, at 3:20 am, Lindsay Marshall wrote: So I would be, frankly, astonished if it could be shown that *everyone* is equally trainable in programming to a professional standard, any more than it could be shown that everyone could learn to be a professional golfer or a professional

Re: PPIG discuss: Programmer education argument-starter of the week

2007-07-01 Thread Frank Wales
Bjorn Reese wrote: The students used longer titles, such as count number of occurrences and find if any element is of some sort, whereas the professionals used short titles, such as count and find. This could indicate that the looping constructs belong to the basic-level category (Rosch,

Re: PPIG discuss: Programmer education argument-starter of the week

2007-06-28 Thread Alan Blackwell
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: What we really need is a Drawing on the right side of the brain for programming. Lindsay - I like this suggestion. I'd want to sit down and discuss it over several drinks at PPIG next week, except that a) PPIG is in Finland, where we won't be able to afford several

RE: PPIG discuss: Programmer education argument-starter of the week

2007-06-27 Thread Guzdial, Mark
-Original Message- From: Lindsay Marshall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue 6/26/2007 4:27 PM To: Guzdial, Mark; Peter Gutmann; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; discuss@ppig.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: PPIG discuss: Programmer education argument-starter of the week

Re: PPIG discuss: Programmer education argument-starter of the week

2007-06-26 Thread Richard Bornat
As an (ex) compiler writer and one of the authors of the Camel paper, I feel impelled to wade in. Except I no longer think I have nothing interesting to say about understanding compilers: it's fun if you like it is all. The Camel paper was written very over-enthustiastically, for which I

RE: PPIG discuss: Programmer education argument-starter of the week

2007-06-24 Thread Lindsay Marshall
How does one prove that some people will *never* learn to program? All possible approaches have now been tried so there are no new innovations to develop? Computer science has only been around for a bit over 50 years. In evolutionary terms, that's way too short a time to evolve a

RE: PPIG discuss: Programmer education argument-starter of the week

2007-06-24 Thread Lindsay Marshall
1) If you don't know how computers work, you don't know how compilers work. (Obviously!) How is that obvious? I can certainly conceive of knowing how compilers work without knowing how a computer works - there are processes involved that can be explained by analogy without referring to

RE: PPIG discuss: Programmer education argument-starter of the week

2007-06-24 Thread Lindsay Marshall
That former group has different motivations, I believe. What motivates those super-hackers who become obsessed with code and end up inventing something like Linux? What motivates them? ... What motivates someone to pick up programming without any previous background (and without,