Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Failure of sending square wave over USRPs (back-to-back)

2014-03-15 Thread Activecat
Dear Marcus, Please avoid adding more confusions rather than clarities. The term upconversion and downconversion are common terms used in the radio engineering industry, but may not be common among other technical folks. In radio engineering industry, there are more than 1 type of

Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Failure of sending square wave over USRPs (back-to-back)

2014-03-15 Thread Activecat
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 11:14 AM, Marcus D. Leech mle...@ripnet.com wrote: The SBX does analog downconversion, nothing more. It knows nothing about the incoming signal, and doesn't demodulate it in any way. That is what SDR is all about--the signals are represented as complex-baseband (i/Q)

Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Failure of sending square wave over USRPs (back-to-back)

2014-03-15 Thread Sylvain Munaut
Hi, There are no documentation of what SBX performs on incoming or outgoing signals. https://www.ettus.com/product/details/SBX IMHO Ettus is among the brands where there is the _least_ surprises just because the exact schematic is published, you can see _exactly_ what the SBX does to your

Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Failure of sending square wave over USRPs (back-to-back)

2014-03-15 Thread Activecat
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Sylvain Munaut 246...@gmail.com wrote: There are no documentation of what SBX performs on incoming or outgoing signals. https://www.ettus.com/product/details/SBX IMHO Ettus is among the brands where there is the _least_ surprises just because the exact

Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Failure of sending square wave over USRPs (back-to-back)

2014-03-15 Thread Sylvain Munaut
Hi, Let's see yourself at http://code.ettus.com/redmine/ettus/projects/public/documents This is the link referred by http://www.ettus.com/kb/detail/frequently-asked-questions This link leads to The page you were trying to access doesn't exist or has been removed ! Wow, they have a

Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Failure of sending square wave over USRPs (back-to-back)

2014-03-15 Thread Activecat
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Sylvain Munaut 246...@gmail.com wrote: You may refer to previous conversations. Do you agree with him that a simple quadrature downconverter doesn't need to care about clock drift because it just simply downconverter and nothing more? Yes ... Cheers,

Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Failure of sending square wave over USRPs (back-to-back)

2014-03-15 Thread Attila Kinali
On Sat, 15 Mar 2014 17:46:58 +0800 Activecat active...@gmail.com wrote: In this case I shall rephrase my question to: How to compensate the error due to clock drift which is not handled by a simple quadrature upconverter ? I do not want to sound rude or anything, but you are asking very basic

Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Failure of sending square wave over USRPs (back-to-back)

2014-03-15 Thread Tom Rondeau
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Activecat active...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Sylvain Munaut 246...@gmail.com wrote: You may refer to previous conversations. Do you agree with him that a simple quadrature downconverter doesn't need to care about clock drift because

Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Failure of sending square wave over USRPs (back-to-back)

2014-03-15 Thread Activecat
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Tom Rondeau t...@trondeau.com wrote: It was mentioned earlier in this thread, you can use a PLL to lock to a carrier. Basically, you need an algorithm that performs carrier recovery. This thread is starting to get a little too confrontational, so we all need

Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Failure of sending square wave over USRPs (back-to-back)

2014-03-15 Thread Marcus D. Leech
On 03/15/2014 02:57 AM, Activecat wrote: Dear Marcus, Please avoid adding more confusions rather than clarities. The term upconversion and downconversion are common terms used in the radio engineering industry, but may not be common among other technical folks. In radio engineering industry,

Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Failure of sending square wave over USRPs (back-to-back)

2014-03-15 Thread Marcus D. Leech
This thread is starting to get a little too confrontational, so we all need to take a bit of a break. Please take a look at the PLL blocks in GNU Radio; you can find them under the Synchronizers category in the block tree of GRC. Spend some time understanding these blocks and how to use them.

Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Failure of sending square wave over USRPs (back-to-back)

2014-03-15 Thread Activecat
I have found the answers. http://nutaq.com/en/blog/multi-channel-synchronization-fpga-based-daq-systems http://nutaq.com/en/blog/brief-overview-frequency-synchronization-ofdm On the Nutaq platforms (ZeptoSDR, PicoSDR) you can control VCXO voltage DAC from GNU Radio (and from FPGA user logic) to

Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Failure of sending square wave over USRPs (back-to-back)

2014-03-14 Thread Sylvain Munaut
Hi, I try to send square wave from one USRP to another. The received signal at the receiver USRP is very different from what was being sent. This is just a very simple setup. What could be wrong ..? Apparently your understanding of how things work :) First thing, square waves have

Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Failure of sending square wave over USRPs (back-to-back)

2014-03-14 Thread Johnathan Corgan
On 03/13/2014 09:32 PM, Activecat wrote: I try to send square wave from one USRP to another. The received signal at the receiver USRP is very different from what was being sent. This is just a very simple setup. What could be wrong ..? What you are seeing is a classic case of frequency/phase

Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Failure of sending square wave over USRPs (back-to-back)

2014-03-14 Thread Activecat
Dear Sylvain, On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Sylvain Munaut 246...@gmail.com wrote: First thing, square waves have infinite bandwidth, the DAC can't generate them properly, the ADC can't capture them properly and they'll be modified by the IF filters. The effect of that is to round off the

Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Failure of sending square wave over USRPs (back-to-back)

2014-03-14 Thread Activecat
Dear Johnathan, On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 2:21 PM, Johnathan Corgan johnat...@corganlabs.com wrote: On 03/13/2014 09:32 PM, Activecat wrote: I try to send square wave from one USRP to another. The received signal at the receiver USRP is very different from what was being sent. This is just a

Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Failure of sending square wave over USRPs (back-to-back)

2014-03-14 Thread Martin Braun
On 14.03.2014 09:50, Activecat wrote: In spite of calibrating things, you have only made the transmitter and receiver local oscillator frequencies close. All real-world receivers must implement a correction loop to estimate this frequency and compensate for it, which eliminates the rotation.

Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Failure of sending square wave over USRPs (back-to-back)

2014-03-14 Thread Johnathan Corgan
On 03/14/2014 01:50 AM, Activecat wrote: In spite of calibrating things, you have only made the transmitter and receiver local oscillator frequencies close. All real-world receivers must implement a correction loop to estimate this frequency and compensate for it, which eliminates the

Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Failure of sending square wave over USRPs (back-to-back)

2014-03-14 Thread Marcus D. Leech
On 03/14/2014 01:05 PM, Johnathan Corgan wrote: The hardware PLL in the receive section of the daughterboard serves an entirely different purpose; it is there to create the local oscillator signal at the frequency requested when tuning. However, that frequency is ultimately derived from a

Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Failure of sending square wave over USRPs (back-to-back)

2014-03-14 Thread Activecat
Dear Martin, On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Martin Braun martin.br...@ettus.com wrote: Here's a very brief explanation: The PLL for the synthesizer makes sure the locally generated frequency is stable (per-device). It's physically impossible to make perfectly aligned oscillators. By throwing

Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Failure of sending square wave over USRPs (back-to-back)

2014-03-14 Thread Marcus D. Leech
On 03/14/2014 10:51 PM, Activecat wrote: Dear Martin, On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Martin Braun martin.br...@ettus.com wrote: Here's a very brief explanation: The PLL for the synthesizer makes sure the locally generated frequency is stable (per-device). It's physically impossible to make

Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Failure of sending square wave over USRPs (back-to-back)

2014-03-14 Thread Activecat
Dear Marcus, On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 11:14 AM, Marcus D. Leech mle...@ripnet.com wrote: The SBX does analog downconversion, nothing more. It knows nothing about the incoming signal, and doesn't demodulate it in any way. Please be clarified what do you mean by analog downconversion. At the

Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Failure of sending square wave over USRPs (back-to-back)

2014-03-14 Thread Marcus D. Leech
On 03/15/2014 12:10 AM, Activecat wrote: Dear Marcus, On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 11:14 AM, Marcus D. Leech mle...@ripnet.com wrote: The SBX does analog downconversion, nothing more. It knows nothing about the incoming signal, and doesn't demodulate it in any way. Please be clarified what do you