Re: FOSDEM Arrangements
On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 5:42 PM, David Chisnall thera...@sucs.org wrote: Otherwise I'd be interested to hear talks about: - CoreBase and CoreGraphics/Opal in GNUstep I think Stef, Gregory, and Eric are the best people to talk about this, and I'm not sure if any of them are going to be there (Gregory and Eric aren't, not sure about Stef - Stef, I actually have no idea which continent you're on...). I'm in the US. I'd like to make it out there one year but, as you can imagine, it would be a real vacation for me. A quick status of CoreBase would be that it's on hold until further notice. Most of my time gets eaten up by grad school. And since I decided to work on NSLocale, the little time I do find is put into that, which has driven me to start work on NSCalendar and updating NSNumberFormatter and NSDateFormatter. Stef ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Obj-C, Handling the sound attribute of a button - SOLVED but on Windows
On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 9:05 AM, Csanyi Pal csanyi...@gmail.com wrote: However, the [DPBin play]; command doesn't play any sound on Windows XP operating system. What is the solution for this on Windows? Are you sure you're getting a NSSound object and not nil? Both libao and libsndfile work on Windows, but I'm not sure if GNUstep ships with them. Check your Bundles/ directory, if they're not there, that is the problem. If either of those bundles were not built, you should be getting nil. Stef ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Obj-C, Handling the sound attribute of a button - SOLVED but on Windows
On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 10:42 AM, Csanyi Pal csanyi...@gmail.com wrote: Are you sure you're getting a NSSound object and not nil? I'm not sure. If you don't have the libsndfile and libao bundles built (see below) you will be getting nil. Both libao and libsndfile work on Windows, but I'm not sure if GNUstep ships with them. Check your Bundles/ directory, if they're not there, that is the problem. If either of those bundles were not built, you should be getting nil. If the Bundles/ directory is as on my Windows system: C:\GNUstep\GNUstep\System\Library\Bundles then there isn't any libao and libsndfile files out there. From where can I install these bundles for Windows? The bundles are called AudioOutput.nssound and Sndfile.nssound. As for how to get them installed on Windows, I'm not sure, I've never used GNUstep on Windows. Please keep in mind I never tested this implementation on Windows, so I'm not sure it even works. Like I mentioned before, I think you're the guinea pig for the new NSSound code. Stef ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Sound attribute of a button - app doesn't play the sound
I'm assuming this feature uses NSSound to play sound, so the problem would most likely be there. Do you have libsndfile and libao installed on your system? If you do have those two libraries, make sure GNUstep built and installed the Sndfile.nssound and AudioOutput.nssound bundles... they should be installed in the Bundles/ dir. Stef On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 7:46 AM, Csanyi Pal csanyi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I added the sound attribute for a button in my GNUstep Renaissance application in the .gsmarkup file: button type=toggle title=1 alternateTitle=0 sound=GombHangja_Magas.ogg id=CPb0sr nextKeyView=#CPb0? / but when compiled and run the app, I can't heare the sound of that button. Why? -- Regards, Paul Chany http://www.debian.org http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu http://csanyi-pal.info ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Sound attribute of a button - app doesn't play the sound
On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Csanyi Pal csanyi...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe the problem is that that the sound file is in OGG format? Recent versions of libsndfile support ogg/vorbis and the build shipped with Debian seem to support it as well (at least it requires libogg and libvorbis). I've never used Renaissance and I'm not sure how it handles the sound tag, so I'm not sure I can help you here. You have all the requirements to create and playback a NSSound. At this point, you're going to have to wait for someone that knows how Renaissance works, because I have no idea what the sound tag does. To tell you the truth, I think you're the first person to really test sound playback since I reimplemented it over a year ago. It's nice to see someone is taking advantage of it (or in this case, not so much). Thanks. Stef ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Hungarian o and u double accute doesn't display correctly
On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 1:34 PM, Csanyi Pal csanyi...@gmail.com wrote: However, when I run my application from xterm window, then I can see warnings: 2010-09-09 20:17:42.091 LPT_Interface[7583] The font specified for NSLabelFont, Helvetica, can't be found. Helvetica is the default art backend font. It's usually installed with the art backend as a nfont. If I remember correctly, nfonts aren't used in the cairo backend. My guess, is that if no font is specified, GNUstep will default to Helvetica, a font not installed with the cairo backend. If I'm not mistaken cairo uses fontconfig, so all your system fonts are available. But, on Debian GNU/Linux Squeeze system, the command 'aptitude search helvetica' gives no results. I was run the comand 'defaults write NSGlobalDomain NSFont DejaVuSans' but I can see that that this command does not affect the NSLabelFont variable. Moreover, I was run these commands once again: defaults write NSGlobalDomain NSFont DejaVuSans defaults write NSGlobalDomain NSLabelFont DejaVuSans but still get warnings, like: 2010-09-09 20:24:35.769 LPT_Interface[7681] The font specified for NSMenuFont, Helvetica, can't be found. 2010-09-09 20:24:35.771 LPT_Interface[7681] The font specified for NSBoldFont, Helvetica-Bold, can't be found. 2010-09-09 20:24:35.774 LPT_Interface[7681] The font specified for NSFont, DejaVuSans, can't be found. 2010-09-09 20:24:35.803 LPT_Interface[7681] The font specified for NSLabelFont, DejaVuSans, can't be found. A much, much easier way of specifying fonts is using the SystemPreferences application. I'd suggest grabbing it. There's a module for fonts and it's really easy to use. ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Podcasts for GNUste
Sounds like a great idea. There used to be at least 1 that I remember on the website, but I can't seem to find it now. Would probably be a good idea to update that tutorial... it taught ProjectCenter and GORM, and it's how I first learned to even work with GNUstep. I would say some usability tutorials/videos would also be nice, something that teaches how to change defaults using SystemPreferences, GNUstep under something NOT WindowMaker, themes, etc. Would be nice if at least some of the videos were hosted by GNUstep in an open format (Ogg/Theora, or maybe the new WebM). I don't always have a PC with Flash installed, so YouTube doesn't always work. Stef On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 6:30 PM, Gregory Casamento greg.casame...@gmail.com wrote: Hey guys. I've been think about doing a number of videos to illustrate how to do certain things using GNUstep and posting them on YouTube. I think it will be useful to make a series of these so that potential developers have a hands on manual that shows them how and what to do in order to work with GNUstep. Work is heavy lately, but I'm planning on fixing a number of outstanding bugs and, time permitting, make at least one video. :) Does anyone have any thoughts? G -- Gregory Casamento - GNUstep Lead/Principal Consultant, OLC, Inc. yahoo/skype: greg_casamento, aol: gjcasa (240)274-9630 (Cell) ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: List dead?
Not that I know of. Checked my old e-mails and it looks like the latest one (that I could find, at least) was from David C. on Apr 27. Stefan On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 12:50 PM, h...@computer.org h...@computer.org wrote: Hi all, is the GNUstep discussion list dead? The last posting was from 9th march. Nikolaus ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Best book for learning ObjC?
I learn plain old C by reading Kochan's Programming in C. He also have a Programming in Objective-C 2.0 (ObjC 2.0 seems to be where GNUstep is going, so I don't see why you can start with that), which is probably what you want to go with. Etoile's David Chisnall (hope I didn't misspell that) recently wrote a Cocoa book as well, I'll let him go in more detail. Good luck ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Best way to install cutting edge GnuStep distribution
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Dr Slivnik Tomaž MA (Cantab) PhD (Cantab) FTICA sliv...@tomaz.name wrote: What is the best/quickest/easiest/smoothest way to get a cutting edge GnuStep distribution running on my machine? I have Debian 5.0.3 running in a virtual machine with all the GnuStep packages installed but they seem rather old. Does it matter if I manually build my own GnuStep installation on top of this? I'm guessing doing so will interfere with the Debian package management system and break things down the line. Installing GNUstep from source is really easy, but you're right here, if you install the Debian packages and from source you'll have conflicts (this is true for any package, though). There's been some chatter recently about a new release, so if you want the latest and greatest it might be a good idea to wait for the new release or build from SVN. On the GNUstep homepage you'll see a link to Startup 0.23.0, this is an easy package that will install all the GNUstep base libraries. From there you only have to build the applicatons (most are as easy as make install, no configure scripts). Are there more current pre-built packages for another platform I can easily install in a VM? I have some Slacware build script up on www.slackbuilds.org, but these scripts are for 12.2. When 13.0 was released I didn't have a box with Slackware installed to update those packages. And now that I do, I'm waiting for the next release to update the scripts. If you want to wait until then, I plan on getting it together soon after the core libraries are released to update the scripts. These scripts generate a package for installation, and makes it easy to upgrade and manage packages. Does GnuStep run on MINIX (or, as I am guessing, there is the same issue of no support for threads and shared memory which break Gnome and KDE running there)? I'd guess GNUstep would have the same problems, but you might still want to check! One of the developers here has built it on GNU/Hurd and neither Gnome nor KDE run on Hurd. I'm really not sure of the technical issues, though. ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
A few problem with latest SVN stuff
I've been trying to use as many GNUstep applications as possible on a little test install that I have going on here and am running into a few problems. These are just the problems with GWorkspace, and I don't know if it's something I'm going or if they are bugs (everything used to work) and WindowMaker. I've installed everything from SVN yesterday (Sat Nov 7), so the code is fairly up to date. I'm also using the xlib backend (if that helps). Anyway, this is what in GWorkspace: * GWorkspace's dock doesn't save what applications have been docked across restarts. That is, if I dock a bunch of applications, then log off using the Logout menu item, then restart the session I'll be presented with an empty dock, again. * The Run panel's (Tools-Run...) text field does not allow me to edit it, which means I can't actually enter the applications I want run. In SystemPreferences: * The Apply button on the themes preferences doesn't actually work. If I hit apply, SystemPreferences' theme will change, however the default will not be written, which means no other application actually gets the new theme. If I restart SystemPreferences I'll be presented with the old theme. * This is just one thing I noticed, isn't GSX11HandlesWindowDecoration depricated? SystemPreferences still has it that way. In general: * I set GSX11HandlesWindowDecoration to NO (have GNUstep draw the borders) and moving windows are extremely slow. I'm on a 500MHz PC, so it's really noticable. If I let WindowMaker decorate the window moving it around is really smooth, but when GNUstep is decorating them it's painfully slow. If I move the mouse fast enough (to one end or another of the screen) the window lags behind. I'll make a note here that I remember this also being an issue when I was on a 2.5GHz PC, just not as noticable there. Let me know if I need to clarify anything or if I should file a bug report. Stefan ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: 100 days until FOSDEM
On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 5:11 PM, Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf lars.sonchocky-helld...@hamburg.de wrote: So to increase our chances to get a dev-room I am asking: does somebody know other projects we could invite for a collaboration? Is somebody in contact with those people? I guess if Riccardo is going that means GAP will probably be represented as well. ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: how to compile a .m
You'll need a GNUmakefile. Check this link for a tutorial:
http://www.gnustep.it/nicola/Tutorials/WritingMakefiles/
For your simple example I would say:
include $(GNUSTEP_MAKEFILES)/common.make
TOOL_NAME = test
test_OBJC_FILES = hello.m
include $(GNUSTEP_MAKEFILES)/tool.make
Don't forget to source GNUstep.sh before running make (will define
GNUSTEP_MAKEFILES).
On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Jean-Loïc Mauduy zhor...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi everyone!
I am new to GNUstep and Objective C and some things seem difficult to
understand for me...I hope you can help me. Precision : I'm on Windows.
After installing the thing, I tried a simple hello world, so I put this
code in a hello.h :
#import stdio.h
int main( int argc, const char *argv[] ) {
printf( hello world\n );
return 0;
}
and now, how do I compile?
I'm a little bit lost...
Thank you for your help.
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Re: Changes I've been thinking of...
On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 8:01 AM, Michael Thaler michael.tha...@physik.tu-muenchen.de wrote: Hi, 1. Marketing to get people to give us a look. To see what? A user interface that most people consider looking really dated? Here are some numbers from the 2006 Linux Deskop Survey: http://www.desktoplinux.com/cgi- bin/survey/survey.cgi?view=archiveid=0821200617613http://www.desktoplinux.com/cgi-%0Abin/survey/survey.cgi?view=archiveid=0821200617613 BlackBox 1.6 % GNOME 35.1 % Enlightenment 3.8 % Fluxbox 3.9 % IceWM 3.2 % KDE 37.7 % WindowMaker 2.2 % Xfce 9.8 % Other (please email us) I could not find any results for 2008 or 2009 but I doubt that the market share of WindowMaker increased. Don't you think that a huge majority of Linux users prefer a more modern looking desktop environment with some eye-candy and will be just dissapointed if the see gnustep in its current state? I don't really like too much eye-candy personally. The first thing I did at work was to change Windows Vista from Aero to Classic mode because I prefer Windows Classic (Windows 2000?) look compared to Aero. On the other hand, I think Snow Leopard looks quite good and I also think KDE4 and Gnome look sort of ok. But the NEXTSTEP look is too old-fashened even for me (I don't care if it is a masterpiece. I don't want to put a picture of it in a frame on the wall, I want to use it as a desktop environment). I really like ObjC and the openstep/gnustep/Cocoa APIs. But everytime I sit down to develop something using gnustep, the old-fashened Look Feel kills my motivation because I think nobody will use it anyway and I decide to use Qt/KDE instead (I am actually a former KDE developer). I just completely disagree with your arguments here. So what if you like eye-candy? Riccardo and Richard like the grey NeXT look, and using the mailing list as the sample space I would say it's divided roughly 60/40 for the NeXT look over the so called eye-candy. Have anyone here using GTK or Qt applications ever actually built these from scratch? I would assume no, because the idea of an easy install always comes up. I've personally next built Qt, but have done GTK. Simple put, it's hell! You have 15 dependencies you need to satisfy before GTK even configures without an error, and another 10 dependencies to get decent support for everything you want ( http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/view/svn/x/gtk2.html everything in Required + their dependencies). Then, after you're all done with that you still end up with a dull and grey look... so you go out and install the clearlooks theme engine. How is that any easier than building GNUstep? I can truthly say, it's not. I still say we need distribution support, which the little that we do have we seem to be loosing. How do we get their support? Marketing will become much easier if all we need to say is do apt-get install gnustep-core gworkspace instead of grab the sources from svn and compile. To be honest, I don't like WindowMaker. don't like using and think those icons are a waste of my precious screen space. What I'll generally try to do is use nothing but GNUstep applications with no window manager (since GNUstep supports it, even though it has issues). On top of all that, GNUstep has a serious identity crisis. It's such a far departure from the usual Gnome/KDE/Windows desktop metaphore. So you end up with the problem that most people expect you provide at least a half working desktop in order to feel comfortable, but that's not GNUstep's goal, it's just a development environment. You can see that littered all over Michael's post, he's trying to compare GNUstep with KDE and Gnome instead of with Qt and GTK (+ GLib and GDK). Etoile is definitly working to bridge that gap, but even so it's not easy to get it. I personally do not build all of Etoile because it's just simply too much work. I would not use Gnome if I had to build it everytime either. 2. Eye-candy to draw people in and get them to try things out (changing the default theme won't do that ... we need to have a group of three or four good themes to appeal to different people) For me, the fundametal question is what direction gnustep wants to take. Does gnustep want to appeal to former NeXTSTEP/Openstep users? Or does gnustep want to be a MacOS X for Linux and other OSS operating systems? In the former case I am not really interested in gnustep. Openstep/gnustep might provide a nice API, maybe it is even a bit nicer then Qt, but I don't really see gnustep being adopted widely if it just tries to provide an Openstep-like API with a Nextstep-like inteface. If gnustep aims to provide APIs and a desktop environement similar to MacOS X I would be very interested. But I don't think gnustep can do both. Either it will continue to try something similar to Openstep or it will change direction and try to be something similar to MacOS X. A simple theme will
Re: Changes I've been thinking of...
Forgot to reply to all! On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 10:45 AM, Nicola Pero nicola.p...@meta-innovation.com wrote: It would undoubtedly be good to have some packager-specific documentation, but obviously the target readership is a very small group We *do* have packager documentation, in core/make/README.Packaging Feel free to add a short section about what was discussed here. :-) I saw Richard committed something there. This is really the first time I've ever heard of GlobalDomain.plist, and will not forget it. - How does this allow a packager to install and remove defaults as part of package installation / uninstallation? Presumably you can use plmerge to install them (again, is this documented anywhere?), but how do you uninstall them? I agree with Richard's later suggestion that the package system might deal with that by having a directory where each package installs a .plist upon installation, and removes it upon deinstallation. At the end of each package installation/deinstallation, the package scripts could do a plmerge so that all the currently existing .plists in the directory are plmerged to create the global default plist, which is hence kept up-to-date. :-) That said, it should probably be used with restrain ;-) Presumably you have a specific example in mind where it makes particular sense (Etoile ?); but in general, I personally don't see a reason why installing a package should change some system defaults. Installing a package doesn't necessarily mean enabling it. Eg, I could be installing 10 or 20 themes or other GNUstep GUI-changing bundles, but that doesn't mean every theme that is installed must be trying to force all users to switch to it. I'd expect to have a Preferences panel somewhere where I can change my own user defaults and activate/deactivate the bundles or themes I want/don't want. Different users might activate/deactivate different bundles. I agree with you, but the packager/distribution developers need to know what they want. For example, in Debian when I install gnome-core I get nothing but a plain GNOME desktop with no theming (default GTK theme), but when I install gnome I also get a few themes and theme engines installed but only 1 is sets Clearlook as the default theme. If the themes are installed separately (outside the gnome package) nothing happens, they're just installed and it's up to you to do something. Similarly, a gnustep package might want to install some core packages and an etoile package install Camaleon and it's themes and set 1 of them as default, setup horizontal menus, etc. So I think it is more important to have a very good preference application that allow real users to configure their environment to suit their needs, including turning on/off bundles or extensions. :-) Thanks By the way, is anyone keeping notes so that this won't all disappear after the discussion dies down? What I've gotten so far is: * Seems to be a consensus in keep GNUstep with it's default theme. GlobalDomain.plist allows packagers or distributions to global define their theme if it pleases them. * Everyone seems to want a new website. Content needs to be looked over because there is a lot of old and outdated information out there confusing newcomers. ** On the same topic, people also seem to be getting detracted by the decentralized information about GNUstep. * Packages, packages, packages. Last I heard we lost the person who did the packages for the Debian project (which is really bad). I've also been slacking on the Slackware packages (lack of time and a dedicated play computer). * Code beautification? Anything I missed so far? Stefan ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Default Sounds
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 9:18 AM, David Chisnall thera...@sucs.org wrote: On 30 Jul 2009, at 14:19, Gregory Casamento wrote: Which format would be best? Anything that the new NSSound code supports. Since they only need to be a couple of seconds long, we can probably distribute them as uncompressed sounds, I'd suggest 16-bit either mono or stereo depending on the sound (the 'whooosh' sound Apple provides makes good use of stereo, flying from one side to the other, but others are essentially mono). I would recommnd 16-bit PCM WAV format (any sample rate is fine). I have backup code that can read WAV and AU/SND files without requiring and libraries. I plan on implementing them on the GSSoundSource protocol after the NSSound changes are in. This would allow reading sound even without libsndfile... libao would still be required for playback, but the plan is to deprecate that in favor of native ALSA, OSS and WINMM. AU/SND format would be fine, too. Apple provides theirs as 16-bit Integer (Big Endian - even on x86, marginally interestingly), Stereo, 44.100 kHz .aiff files. The total file size for all of the sounds is under 1MB. Someone shipping a handheld platform where space was at a very tight premium could encode them as something like vorbis if the sound input bundle supported this format to save some space. AIFF/AIFC sound is a pain to read because of the 80-bit float. Not saying it's not possible, just painful. ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
