Re: [Discuss] Are there any no-cost vm's still out there?
On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 5:15 AM, Edward Ned Harvey (blu) b...@nedharvey.com wrote: From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces+blu=nedharvey@blu.org] On Behalf Of Bill Horne My question: does VMWare or Virtualbox still offer no-cost software for home/personal use? I'd like to run both Linux and Windows 7 (for all the usual reasons), but I don't know if I can do it without paying for a VM. TIA. For a desktop, no-cost, you have: Virtualbox on any platform. VMWare Player on windows or linux. Since there's only one no-cost option on a mac, the question becomes - is it worthwhile to pay for Fusion or Parallels on the mac? And I say yes if you use it on time that you're paid to be working. No, if you're a student who just wants to do cool stuff for free. For a server, I would recommend nothing other than VMWare ESXi. Xen is crap, Virtualbox sucks for servers, I'll just mention MS in passing... And what else is there? Sure you could do something like KVM on a linux host, but why would you? In that case, replace the linux host with ESXi on bare metal, and make the linux host actually a guest. Re: using KVM (or Xen) You would use them because you want to be the next Amazon or Rackspace. It's clear that large organizations get real work done using these products. I'm sure they all have real problems, but they apparently have benefits as well. The question is what is your use case. (The VirtualBox one seems nasty, OTOH, I've never had that problem in my casual use of VB.) Re: question of accelerated graphics (from a separate thread) hardware accelerated graphics != direct hardware access While I can understand there might be some times that direct hardware access is needed for a VM, it seems to me that is opening up a huge potential problem from a security (and reliability of host OS) perspective. Personally, I would prefer a virtualized graphics stack as long as it fully supports current graphics programming interfaces at a reasonable performance level. From what I've seen VMWare seems to be the best at doing this. For whatever reason, although stable for me; VB has never worked for me for more intensive graphics. Bill Bogstad ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Are there any no-cost vm's still out there?
On 2/13/2015 3:11 AM, Bill Bogstad wrote: Re: question of accelerated graphics (from a separate thread) hardware accelerated graphics != direct hardware access They are synonymous. Linux DRI exists to enable graphics acceleration (among other related things): http://dri.sourceforge.net/doc/DRIintro.html While I can understand there might be some times that direct hardware access is needed for a VM, it seems to me that is opening up a huge potential problem from a security (and reliability of host OS) perspective. Personally, You're right. That's one of the reasons why Xen does not have full DRI support. On the other hand you don't get GPGPU processing and you can't do anything serious with OpenGL rendering. Lack of DRI makes the former impossible and the latter prohibitively slow. There are some DRI pass through hacks for Xen but they aren't especially reliable. -- Rich P. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Are there any no-cost vm's still out there?
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 4:57 PM, Joe Polcari j...@polcari.com wrote: Says it's fixed? Except it's not. It was moved to a different bug, re-opened, and there aren't status updates other than me too comments. https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/12264 shows the bug as re-opened although it was 'fixed' 15 months ago by Frank. -Original Message- From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces+joe=polcari@blu.org] On Behalf Of Greg Rundlett (freephile) Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 1:51 PM To: Jack Coats Cc: BLU Discussion List Subject: Re: [Discuss] Are there any no-cost vm's still out there? I've been using VirtualBox, but need to check out Xen because VirtualBox locks up hard due to a 3-yr old networking bug that isn't getting any attention. https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/10624 https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/12264 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Are there any no-cost vm's still out there?
Like Xen (xenproject.org)? On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Bill Horne b...@horne.net wrote: I'm starting a new thread instead of hijacking the os x = poop thread. Eric Chadbourne wrote: Hi Ed, How do you like vmware? I’ve been using virtualbox for years but I heard recently there’s only one dev really maintaining it. Too big a project for that. I wonder if it will be discontinued soon? My question: does VMWare or Virtualbox still offer no-cost software for home/personal use? I'd like to run both Linux and Windows 7 (for all the usual reasons), but I don't know if I can do it without paying for a VM. TIA. Bill -- E. William Horne 339-364-8487 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- ... Jack Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart... Colossians 3:23 Anyone who has never made a mistake, has never tried anything new. - Albert Einstein You don't manage people; you manage things. You lead people. - Admiral Grace Hopper, USN Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn. - Ben Franklin ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Are there any no-cost vm's still out there?
VirtualBox -Original Message- From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces+joe=polcari@blu.org] On Behalf Of Bill Horne Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 12:37 PM To: BLU Discussion List Subject: [Discuss] Are there any no-cost vm's still out there? I'm starting a new thread instead of hijacking the os x = poop thread. Eric Chadbourne wrote: Hi Ed, How do you like vmware? I've been using virtualbox for years but I heard recently there's only one dev really maintaining it. Too big a project for that. I wonder if it will be discontinued soon? My question: does VMWare or Virtualbox still offer no-cost software for home/personal use? I'd like to run both Linux and Windows 7 (for all the usual reasons), but I don't know if I can do it without paying for a VM. TIA. Bill -- E. William Horne 339-364-8487 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Are there any no-cost vm's still out there?
I've been using VirtualBox, but need to check out Xen because VirtualBox locks up hard due to a 3-yr old networking bug that isn't getting any attention. https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/10624 https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/12264 Greg Rundlett http://eQuality-Tech.com http://freephile.org On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 1:40 PM, Jack Coats j...@coats.org wrote: Like Xen (xenproject.org)? On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Bill Horne b...@horne.net wrote: I'm starting a new thread instead of hijacking the os x = poop thread. Eric Chadbourne wrote: Hi Ed, How do you like vmware? I've been using virtualbox for years but I heard recently there's only one dev really maintaining it. Too big a project for that. I wonder if it will be discontinued soon? My question: does VMWare or Virtualbox still offer no-cost software for home/personal use? I'd like to run both Linux and Windows 7 (for all the usual reasons), but I don't know if I can do it without paying for a VM. TIA. Bill -- E. William Horne 339-364-8487 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- ... Jack Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart... Colossians 3:23 Anyone who has never made a mistake, has never tried anything new. - Albert Einstein You don't manage people; you manage things. You lead people. - Admiral Grace Hopper, USN Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn. - Ben Franklin ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Are there any no-cost vm's still out there?
On 2/12/2015 1:40 PM, Edward Ned Harvey (blu) wrote: From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces+blu=nedharvey@blu.org] On Behalf Of Eric Chadbourne How do you like vmware? I’ve been using virtualbox for years but I heard recently there’s only one dev really maintaining it. Too big a project for that. I wonder if it will be discontinued soon? Virtualbox is really good for a free product. But if you use it all day every day, as a professional, then there's no question about it, vmware fusion and parallels are better. More features, better reliability, better performance. Fusion and Parallels are each better in their own ways - ultimately it's a wash between the two. They're both fine. Being a techy person, I prefer the vmware style over the parallels style. I'm curious: please give your reasons for and against each vendor, and tell us what your experience was installing and debugging each. TIA. Bill -- E. William Horne 339-364-8487 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Are there any no-cost vm's still out there?
Says it's fixed? -Original Message- From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces+joe=polcari@blu.org] On Behalf Of Greg Rundlett (freephile) Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 1:51 PM To: Jack Coats Cc: BLU Discussion List Subject: Re: [Discuss] Are there any no-cost vm's still out there? I've been using VirtualBox, but need to check out Xen because VirtualBox locks up hard due to a 3-yr old networking bug that isn't getting any attention. https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/10624 https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/12264 Greg Rundlett http://eQuality-Tech.com http://freephile.org On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 1:40 PM, Jack Coats j...@coats.org wrote: Like Xen (xenproject.org)? On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Bill Horne b...@horne.net wrote: I'm starting a new thread instead of hijacking the os x = poop thread. Eric Chadbourne wrote: Hi Ed, How do you like vmware? I've been using virtualbox for years but I heard recently there's only one dev really maintaining it. Too big a project for that. I wonder if it will be discontinued soon? My question: does VMWare or Virtualbox still offer no-cost software for home/personal use? I'd like to run both Linux and Windows 7 (for all the usual reasons), but I don't know if I can do it without paying for a VM. TIA. Bill -- E. William Horne 339-364-8487 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- ... Jack Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart... Colossians 3:23 Anyone who has never made a mistake, has never tried anything new. - Albert Einstein You don't manage people; you manage things. You lead people. - Admiral Grace Hopper, USN Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn. - Ben Franklin ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Are there any no-cost vm's still out there?
If you want to run Windows as a VM on a Linux host, there's always KVM. It's all native Linux, no proprietary licenses to worry about. I've used it to run Linux guest VMs, but a quick google search turns up a bunch of links about running a Windows 7 guest under KVM. On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Bill Horne b...@horne.net wrote: I'm starting a new thread instead of hijacking the os x = poop thread. Eric Chadbourne wrote: Hi Ed, How do you like vmware? I’ve been using virtualbox for years but I heard recently there’s only one dev really maintaining it. Too big a project for that. I wonder if it will be discontinued soon? My question: does VMWare or Virtualbox still offer no-cost software for home/personal use? I'd like to run both Linux and Windows 7 (for all the usual reasons), but I don't know if I can do it without paying for a VM. TIA. Bill -- E. William Horne 339-364-8487 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux Unix Email: abre...@gmail.com / WWW http://www.abreau.net / PGP-Key-ID 0x920063C6 PGP-Key-Fingerprint A5AD 6BE1 FEFE 8E4F 5C23 C2D0 E885 E17C 9200 63C6 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Are there any no-cost vm's still out there?
On 2/12/2015 4:57 PM, Joe Polcari wrote: Says it's fixed? Three years to fix a bug that crashes the VM and takes out the host with it. No, I had to stop using VirtualBox because of this bug and a three year turnaround on a fix isn't going to get me to change my mind about not using it. VMware offers a free version of VMware Player for personal use. It's a lot like what VMware Workstation was before Workstation became an enterprise-grade product. I'm partial to VMware's products for desktop use because they maintain feature parity across concurrent releases, something that Parallels doesn't (at least didn't last time I checked which was a few years ago) which complicates copying VMs between different host operating systems. Xen is really nice for what it is but it isn't something that I would use for a personal box. While it starts with GRUB and a Linux kernel, the dom0 which controls the domU's is itself a virtualized environment running above the Xen hypervisor. As such it does not have direct access to the hardware so no accelerated graphics and sometimes no audio. Xen is most excellent for virtualizing servers. KVM is probably better for a personal box since you have a Linux kernel running on the bare metal instead of a Xen hypervisor. -- Rich P. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Are there any no-cost vm's still out there?
From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces+blu=nedharvey@blu.org] On Behalf Of Bill Horne My question: does VMWare or Virtualbox still offer no-cost software for home/personal use? I'd like to run both Linux and Windows 7 (for all the usual reasons), but I don't know if I can do it without paying for a VM. TIA. For a desktop, no-cost, you have: Virtualbox on any platform. VMWare Player on windows or linux. Since there's only one no-cost option on a mac, the question becomes - is it worthwhile to pay for Fusion or Parallels on the mac? And I say yes if you use it on time that you're paid to be working. No, if you're a student who just wants to do cool stuff for free. For a server, I would recommend nothing other than VMWare ESXi. Xen is crap, Virtualbox sucks for servers, I'll just mention MS in passing... And what else is there? Sure you could do something like KVM on a linux host, but why would you? In that case, replace the linux host with ESXi on bare metal, and make the linux host actually a guest. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
