Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

2013-04-24 Thread Upscope
On Wednesday, April 24, 2013 02:54:48 AM Pedro wrote:
> Hi Russ
> 
> 
> upscope wrote
> 
> > I agree with his point but as I stated I do not have any MicroSoft
> > Office Software. I strictly use Linux and LibreOffice. The sample
> > document is one sent to be from Canada by a user and I've tried to
> > convince them to save it as .doc but I'm the only one so far not
> > using XP, Vista or Win 7/8. I even tried to have them send it as a
> > .pdf but that was above some of their knowledge level.
> 
> I apologize for missing that important information. Since the document
> uses several cosmetic/fancy features it makes sense for them to save
> as docx instead of doc.
> 
> If they were using Office 2010 there is an option to Send as PDF. But
> they are probably using Office 2007 and that would require installing
> a PDF printer such as PDFcreator.
> However sending the documents as PDF only works for documents which
> the addressee doesn't need to edit...
> 
> 
> upscope wrote
> 
> > I would say about 70% of the documents I receive today are .docx. I
> > have no problems with the text only ones. When I send them a
> > document I usually save it as .pdf or .doc and it is all correct.
> > its the incoming ones with graphics that I cannot control.
> 
> That is exactly the barrier I was discussing in previous emails...
> 
> I suggest that instead of sending a plain PDF, you Export as PDF and
> check the Embed OpenDocument file option. This way it behaves as a
> PDF for your addressees and you can still edit and modify using
> LibreOffice. The file is a bit larger but the advantages are obvious
> :)
> It also saves you from having to keep two separate files.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/7qfv51qpl50ofxk/Newsletter_April_2013_odf_em
> bedded.pdf
> 
> Since PDF files are probably associated with a PDF reader in your
> system, you need to open LibreOffice first and then use it to open
> the PDF ;)
> 
> Hope this helps ;)
> 
 Thanks Pedro. I was aware of the options you mentioned. I have not used 
the embeded option since two of the people I send thins two have been 
total confused and try to open it with Word. 

Evem my still uses opprice 2003 on her WIN 7 system. It works for her. 
I've told her many times to install LibreOffice and learn it, since that 
version of Word will not be supported after April next year. No Luck so 
far, she claims she does not have time to learn something new now. She 
is an Author snd constantly working on new book.

I know of several Word to pdf converts that I used in the past on Win ME 
(My last MS System).

The author of the document I posted is going to send me a PDF version, I 
post it to see if its the the pdf version from Win XP I think you posted
> 
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Thanks again 

Russ
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[tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

2013-04-24 Thread Pedro
Hi Russ


upscope wrote
> I agree with his point but as I stated I do not have any MicroSoft 
> Office Software. I strictly use Linux and LibreOffice. The sample 
> document is one sent to be from Canada by a user and I've tried to 
> convince them to save it as .doc but I'm the only one so far not using 
> XP, Vista or Win 7/8. I even tried to have them send it as a .pdf but 
> that was above some of their knowledge level.

I apologize for missing that important information. Since the document uses
several cosmetic/fancy features it makes sense for them to save as docx
instead of doc. 

If they were using Office 2010 there is an option to Send as PDF. But they
are probably using Office 2007 and that would require installing a PDF
printer such as PDFcreator.
However sending the documents as PDF only works for documents which the
addressee doesn't need to edit...


upscope wrote
> I would say about 70% of the documents I receive today are .docx. I have 
> no problems with the text only ones. When I send them a document I 
> usually save it as .pdf or .doc and it is all correct. its the incoming 
> ones with graphics that I cannot control.

That is exactly the barrier I was discussing in previous emails...

I suggest that instead of sending a plain PDF, you Export as PDF and check
the Embed OpenDocument file option. This way it behaves as a PDF for your
addressees and you can still edit and modify using LibreOffice. The file is
a bit larger but the advantages are obvious :)
It also saves you from having to keep two separate files.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7qfv51qpl50ofxk/Newsletter_April_2013_odf_embedded.pdf

Since PDF files are probably associated with a PDF reader in your system,
you need to open LibreOffice first and then use it to open the PDF ;)

Hope this helps ;)



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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

2013-04-23 Thread Upscope

On Tuesday, April 23, 2013 04:07:29 PM Pedro wrote:
> upscope wrote
> 
> >> Russ .docx was 2007 onwards. What can i help with on mac?
> > 
> > Yes I was aware of that. If you are using LO writer, see if the
> > document attached to the bug report opens displays the full graphic
> > and text. There are graphics on almost all pages and some open
> > completely but not in the right location, some only partially open,
> > etc.
> 
> Actually Jonathan's point is quite relevant. If you save the example
> document you provided in .doc format in your MS Office (instead of
> saving in docx) you will notice that actually it is quite well
> preserved and can be transferred back and forth between LibreOffice
> and MS Word.

I agree with his point but as I stated I do not have any MicroSoft 
Office Software. I strictly use Linux and LibreOffice. The sample 
document is one sent to be from Canada by a user and I've tried to 
convince them to save it as .doc but I'm the only one so far not using 
XP, Vista or Win 7/8. I even tried to have them send it as a .pdf but 
that was above some of their knowledge level.

I would say about 70% of the douments I recieve today are .docx. I have 
no problems with the text only ones. When I send them a document I 
usually save it as .pdf or .doc and it is all correct. its the incoming 
ones with graphics that I cannot control.

I doubled the memory available for LibreOffice as suggested on mailing 
list but it did not help.

I appreciate you help and comments. 

Thanks again

Russ



 
> Since the original discussion is about LibreOffice replacing Office
> 2003, then I believe it might be a realistic replacement with some
> quirks.
> 
> I should also add that a perfectly formatted document (using styles
> and page/margin limits instead of tabs and spaces) is much more
> resistant to conversions ;)
> 
> This is not an excuse to say that LibreOffice does not need to improve
> A LOT, especially with regards to Office XML formats. Currently most
> documents can not go back and forth (because LO barely supports
> Office XML and Office barely supports ODF...)
> 
> So there is room for improvement in the new file format versions but
> keeping to the old Office 2003 formats is currently the best option.
> 
> Hope this helps ;)
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/End-of-Life-support-for-MSO-2003
> -countdown-tp4050964p4051957.html Sent from the Discuss mailing list
> archive at Nabble.com.
> 
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[tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

2013-04-23 Thread Pedro
upscope wrote
>> Russ .docx was 2007 onwards. What can i help with on mac?
> Yes I was aware of that. If you are using LO writer, see if the document 
> attached to the bug report opens displays the full graphic and text. 
> There are graphics on almost all pages and some open completely but not 
> in the right location, some only partially open, etc.

Actually Jonathan's point is quite relevant. If you save the example
document you provided in .doc format in your MS Office (instead of saving in
docx) you will notice that actually it is quite well preserved and can be
transferred back and forth between LibreOffice and MS Word.

Since the original discussion is about LibreOffice replacing Office 2003,
then I believe it might be a realistic replacement with some quirks.

I should also add that a perfectly formatted document (using styles and
page/margin limits instead of tabs and spaces) is much more resistant to
conversions ;)

This is not an excuse to say that LibreOffice does not need to improve A
LOT, especially with regards to Office XML formats. Currently most documents
can not go back and forth (because LO barely supports Office XML and Office
barely supports ODF...)

So there is room for improvement in the new file format versions but keeping
to the old Office 2003 formats is currently the best option.

Hope this helps ;)



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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

2013-04-23 Thread Upscope
On Tuesday, April 23, 2013 09:43:09 PM Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> Russ .docx was 2007 onwards. What can i help with on mac?
Yes I was aware of that. If you are using LO writer, see if the document 
attached to the bug report opens displays the full graphic and text. 
There are graphics on almost all pages and some open completely but not 
in write location, some only partically open, etc.

attachment show be on this bug report.

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=63851

Russ



> 
> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Upscope  wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 23, 2013 05:23:46 PM Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
> > > Le mardi 23 avril 2013 à 07:42 -0700, Pedro a écrit :
> > > > Hi upscope
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > upscope wrote
> > > > 
> > > > > I will be glad to supply the document if it would help, and
> > > > > the
> > > > > author agrees (should be no problem). Let me know if that will
> > > > > help.>
> > > > 
> > > > Of course it helps! Please submit the document and any problems
> > > > you
> > > > find
> > > > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=LibreOffice
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > upscope wrote
> > > > 
> > > > > Thanks for your interest and I'll keep testing new version
> > > > > until
> > > > > it
> > > > > works.
> > > > 
> > > > Don't just wait for a version to work for you. Submitting  the
> > > > bugs,
> > > > documents, problems you find will increase the *chances* that
> > > > your
> > > > problems are fixed...
> > > > 
> > > > Although submitting bugs/documents is no guarantee that any
> > > > developer will look at them or fix them, NOT submitting is our
> > > > worst possible option :)
> > > 
> > > I have to concur with Pedro. Indeed, if you can it is best to
> > > submit a bug report containing the document itself and run some
> > > easy but preliminary tests: do the formatting problem remain the
> > > same with the platform (i.e mac, windows, linux... different
> > > versions of Windows?), etc.
> > > 
> > > best,
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Charles-H. Schulz
> > > Co-Founder & Director, The Document Foundation,
> > > Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
> > > Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
> > > Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
> > > discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems?
> > > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscri
> > > be/
> > > Posting guidelines + more:
> > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive:
> > > http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All
> > > messages
> > > sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
> > 
> > Search for my old bug report did not find it but did find another
> > one
> > that I submitted at the time, was against version 3.6.5.
> > 
> > I submitted a new bug on this even thought there are acouple hundred
> > bus in a search for .docx. several were sinular. I also attached
> > the document I am having trouble with now.
> > 
> > [CODE]
> > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=63851
> > [/CODE]
> > 
> > Can not do any test against Mac or Windows since I am exclusively
> > Linux. i could install XP in VirtualBOx with Office 2003 but I
> > don't think it will open .docx documents.
> > 
> > Thanks for your replies.
> > 
> > 
> > Russ
> > --
> > openSUSE 12.3(Linux 3.7.10-1.1-desktop x86_64)|KDE 4.10.2
> > "release 556"|Intel core2duo 2.5 MHZ,|8GB DDR3|GeForce
> > 8400GS(NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-310.32)
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
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> > /
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> > deleted
> 
> --
> Jonathan Aquilina
> 
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

2013-04-23 Thread Steve Edmonds


On 2013-04-24 05:22, Upscope wrote:

On Tuesday, April 23, 2013 05:23:46 PM Charles-H. Schulz wrote:

Le mardi 23 avril 2013 à 07:42 -0700, Pedro a écrit :

Hi upscope


upscope wrote


I will be glad to supply the document if it would help, and the
author agrees (should be no problem). Let me know if that will
help.>

Of course it helps! Please submit the document and any problems you
find https://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=LibreOffice


upscope wrote


Thanks for your interest and I'll keep testing new version until
it
works.

Don't just wait for a version to work for you. Submitting  the bugs,
documents, problems you find will increase the *chances* that your
problems are fixed...

Although submitting bugs/documents is no guarantee that any
developer will look at them or fix them, NOT submitting is our
worst possible option :)

I have to concur with Pedro. Indeed, if you can it is best to submit a
bug report containing the document itself and run some easy but
preliminary tests: do the formatting problem remain the same with the
platform (i.e mac, windows, linux... different versions of Windows?),
etc.

best,

--
Charles-H. Schulz
Co-Founder & Director, The Document Foundation,
Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint




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Search for my old bug report did not find it but did find another one
that I submitted at the time, was against version 3.6.5.

I submitted a new bug on this even thought there are acouple hundred bus
in a search for .docx. several were sinular. I also attached the
document I am having trouble with now.

[CODE]
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=63851
[/CODE]

Can not do any test against Mac or Windows since I am exclusively Linux.
i could install XP in VirtualBOx with Office 2003 but I don't think it
will open .docx documents.

Thanks for your replies.


Russ
Hi. I see the uploaded file is type text. I can save as a docx file and 
open it but just clicking the link opens the file as plain text. And 
yes, it is a mess like many I open.

Steve


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

2013-04-23 Thread Jonathan Aquilina
Russ .docx was 2007 onwards. What can i help with on mac?


On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Upscope  wrote:

> On Tuesday, April 23, 2013 05:23:46 PM Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
> > Le mardi 23 avril 2013 à 07:42 -0700, Pedro a écrit :
> > > Hi upscope
> > >
> > >
> > > upscope wrote
> > >
> > > > I will be glad to supply the document if it would help, and the
> > > > author agrees (should be no problem). Let me know if that will
> > > > help.>
> > > Of course it helps! Please submit the document and any problems you
> > > find https://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=LibreOffice
> > >
> > >
> > > upscope wrote
> > >
> > > > Thanks for your interest and I'll keep testing new version until
> > > > it
> > > > works.
> > >
> > > Don't just wait for a version to work for you. Submitting  the bugs,
> > > documents, problems you find will increase the *chances* that your
> > > problems are fixed...
> > >
> > > Although submitting bugs/documents is no guarantee that any
> > > developer will look at them or fix them, NOT submitting is our
> > > worst possible option :)
> > I have to concur with Pedro. Indeed, if you can it is best to submit a
> > bug report containing the document itself and run some easy but
> > preliminary tests: do the formatting problem remain the same with the
> > platform (i.e mac, windows, linux... different versions of Windows?),
> > etc.
> >
> > best,
> >
> > --
> > Charles-H. Schulz
> > Co-Founder & Director, The Document Foundation,
> > Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
> > Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
> > Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
> > discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems?
> > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > Posting guidelines + more:
> > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive:
> > http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages
> > sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
>
> Search for my old bug report did not find it but did find another one
> that I submitted at the time, was against version 3.6.5.
>
> I submitted a new bug on this even thought there are acouple hundred bus
> in a search for .docx. several were sinular. I also attached the
> document I am having trouble with now.
>
> [CODE]
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=63851
> [/CODE]
>
> Can not do any test against Mac or Windows since I am exclusively Linux.
> i could install XP in VirtualBOx with Office 2003 but I don't think it
> will open .docx documents.
>
> Thanks for your replies.
>
>
> Russ
> --
> openSUSE 12.3(Linux 3.7.10-1.1-desktop x86_64)|KDE 4.10.2
> "release 556"|Intel core2duo 2.5 MHZ,|8GB DDR3|GeForce
> 8400GS(NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-310.32)
>
>
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> deleted
>
>


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

2013-04-23 Thread Upscope
On Tuesday, April 23, 2013 05:23:46 PM Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
> Le mardi 23 avril 2013 à 07:42 -0700, Pedro a écrit :
> > Hi upscope
> > 
> > 
> > upscope wrote
> > 
> > > I will be glad to supply the document if it would help, and the
> > > author agrees (should be no problem). Let me know if that will
> > > help.> 
> > Of course it helps! Please submit the document and any problems you
> > find https://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=LibreOffice
> > 
> > 
> > upscope wrote
> > 
> > > Thanks for your interest and I'll keep testing new version until
> > > it
> > > works.
> > 
> > Don't just wait for a version to work for you. Submitting  the bugs,
> > documents, problems you find will increase the *chances* that your
> > problems are fixed...
> > 
> > Although submitting bugs/documents is no guarantee that any
> > developer will look at them or fix them, NOT submitting is our
> > worst possible option :)
> I have to concur with Pedro. Indeed, if you can it is best to submit a
> bug report containing the document itself and run some easy but
> preliminary tests: do the formatting problem remain the same with the
> platform (i.e mac, windows, linux... different versions of Windows?),
> etc.
> 
> best,
> 
> --
> Charles-H. Schulz
> Co-Founder & Director, The Document Foundation,
> Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
> Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
> Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
> discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive:
> http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages
> sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Search for my old bug report did not find it but did find another one 
that I submitted at the time, was against version 3.6.5.

I submitted a new bug on this even thought there are acouple hundred bus 
in a search for .docx. several were sinular. I also attached the 
document I am having trouble with now.

[CODE]
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=63851
[/CODE]

Can not do any test against Mac or Windows since I am exclusively Linux. 
i could install XP in VirtualBOx with Office 2003 but I don't think it 
will open .docx documents.

Thanks for your replies.


Russ
-- 
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

2013-04-23 Thread Charles-H. Schulz
Le mardi 23 avril 2013 à 07:42 -0700, Pedro a écrit :
> Hi upscope
> 
> 
> upscope wrote
> > I will be glad to supply the document if it would help, and the author 
> > agrees (should be no problem). Let me know if that will help. 
> 
> Of course it helps! Please submit the document and any problems you find
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=LibreOffice
> 
> 
> upscope wrote
> > Thanks for your interest and I'll keep testing new version until it 
> > works. 
> 
> Don't just wait for a version to work for you. Submitting  the bugs,
> documents, problems you find will increase the *chances* that your problems
> are fixed...
> 
> Although submitting bugs/documents is no guarantee that any developer will
> look at them or fix them, NOT submitting is our worst possible option :)

I have to concur with Pedro. Indeed, if you can it is best to submit a
bug report containing the document itself and run some easy but
preliminary tests: do the formatting problem remain the same with the
platform (i.e mac, windows, linux... different versions of Windows?),
etc.

best,

-- 
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Co-Founder & Director, The Document Foundation,
Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint




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[tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

2013-04-23 Thread Pedro
Hi upscope


upscope wrote
> I will be glad to supply the document if it would help, and the author 
> agrees (should be no problem). Let me know if that will help. 

Of course it helps! Please submit the document and any problems you find
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=LibreOffice


upscope wrote
> Thanks for your interest and I'll keep testing new version until it 
> works. 

Don't just wait for a version to work for you. Submitting  the bugs,
documents, problems you find will increase the *chances* that your problems
are fixed...

Although submitting bugs/documents is no guarantee that any developer will
look at them or fix them, NOT submitting is our worst possible option :)

Cheers,
Pedro



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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

2013-04-23 Thread Upscope
On Tuesday, April 23, 2013 11:11:11 AM Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
> Hello Russ,
> 
> Le lundi 22 avril 2013 à 17:40 -0700, Upscope a écrit :
> > 
> > 
> > > I remember seeing a discussion about the White Paper, and I hope
> > > that
> > > translations to other languages will be done.
> > > 
> > > That will help a lot.
> > > 
> > > Here in Canada, the Quebec government is about to spend 1.4
> > > billion $
> > > to upgrade 500,000 desktops from MSO 2003 to MSO 2013.
> > > This is only the provincial public service and does not include
> > > municipal/city-level public service with approx another 300,000.
> > > 
> > > The original intent of my message (sorry if I used the wrong
> > > mailing
> > > list) was to make a blog post to say that we as a community are
> > > aware
> > > of the end-of-life for MSO 2003 that is less than a year away, and
> > > here are some reasons why you should make the switch.
> > > 
> > > Yes, the formats are not perfect, and yes the license is free.
> > > But most important, LibreOffice has 99% (?) of the same
> > > functionalities of MSO and answers the need of 99% (?) of
> > > end-users,
> > > either individuals or business.
> > 
> > I have to disagree with the above statement. There are still
> > significant problems with .docx documents in writer. All text type
> > documents work, but recieve something with grapic in it and the
> > conversion does not work correctly. i reports this way back on 3.x
> > and 4.0. Still not fixed in 4.0.2. It occurs both in the openSUSE
> > branded version and the version direct from LibreOffice.
> > 
> > If everybody is going to be abadoning .doc this needs to be fixed. I
> > final may have found when it occurs today and will report it. (has
> > to do with text wraping around the graphic).
> > 
> > Don't get me wrong I use LibreOfiice exclusively and like it.
> > 
> > And to let you know alot of the .docx documents I get are from B.C.
> > I'm in Washinton, close neighor to them.
> 
> I think it's important to clarify Italo's comment. We don't just think
> that since we know it will never be perfect, we don't work on the
> OOXML filters. Actually there's been some massive work done on them,
> and it is an ever ongoing work. But it is also important to realize
> that OOXML is a highly complex format that we have to reimplement
> (the spec helps, but there's much more to it) and  therefore it takes
> a long time to get it right. Note that one outcome of this is that we
> get better with time (today, the MS Office formats from MS Office 97,
> 2000 or 2003 really work well) and another factor to take into
> account is how the users of both LibreOffice and MS Office actually
> use the software. Someone typing only bold letters for the title or
> paragraph headers is not going to get the best result regardless of
> the suite he/she uses.
> 
> best,
> Charles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
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I understand what you say but until I can open a newletter written on MS 
.docx and have the text and graphics be readable, it not the perfect 
solution. 

I have found if I turn off wrap tex all the graphics then appear 
correctly but the doc. text format is incorect (text is all there, just 
looses formatting). I have had no problems converting .docx text only 
documents to LO.

I will be glad to supply the document if it would help, and the author 
agrees (should be no problem). Let me know if that will help. 

Thanks for your interest and I'll keep testing new version until it 
works. 



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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

2013-04-23 Thread Charles-H. Schulz
Hello Russ,

Le lundi 22 avril 2013 à 17:40 -0700, Upscope a écrit :

> 
> > I remember seeing a discussion about the White Paper, and I hope that
> > translations to other languages will be done.
> > 
> > That will help a lot.
> > 
> > Here in Canada, the Quebec government is about to spend 1.4 billion $
> > to upgrade 500,000 desktops from MSO 2003 to MSO 2013.
> > This is only the provincial public service and does not include
> > municipal/city-level public service with approx another 300,000.
> > 
> > The original intent of my message (sorry if I used the wrong mailing
> > list) was to make a blog post to say that we as a community are aware
> > of the end-of-life for MSO 2003 that is less than a year away, and
> > here are some reasons why you should make the switch.
> > 
> > Yes, the formats are not perfect, and yes the license is free.
> > But most important, LibreOffice has 99% (?) of the same
> > functionalities of MSO and answers the need of 99% (?) of end-users,
> > either individuals or business.
> 
> I have to disagree with the above statement. There are still significant 
> problems with .docx documents in writer. All text type documents work, 
> but recieve something with grapic in it and the conversion does not work 
> correctly. i reports this way back on 3.x and 4.0. Still not fixed in 
> 4.0.2. It occurs both in the openSUSE branded version and the version 
> direct from LibreOffice.
> 
> If everybody is going to be abadoning .doc this needs to be fixed. I 
> final may have found when it occurs today and will report it. (has to do 
> with text wraping around the graphic).
> 
> Don't get me wrong I use LibreOfiice exclusively and like it. 
> 
> And to let you know alot of the .docx documents I get are from B.C. I'm 
> in Washinton, close neighor to them.

I think it's important to clarify Italo's comment. We don't just think
that since we know it will never be perfect, we don't work on the OOXML
filters. Actually there's been some massive work done on them, and it is
an ever ongoing work. But it is also important to realize that OOXML is
a highly complex format that we have to reimplement (the spec helps, but
there's much more to it) and  therefore it takes a long time to get it
right. Note that one outcome of this is that we get better with time
(today, the MS Office formats from MS Office 97, 2000 or 2003 really
work well) and another factor to take into account is how the users of
both LibreOffice and MS Office actually use the software. Someone typing
only bold letters for the title or paragraph headers is not going to get
the best result regardless of the suite he/she uses.

best,
Charles. 






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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

2013-04-22 Thread Upscope
On Monday, April 22, 2013 12:28:55 PM Immanuel Giulea wrote:

> I remember seeing a discussion about the White Paper, and I hope that
> translations to other languages will be done.
> 
> That will help a lot.
> 
> Here in Canada, the Quebec government is about to spend 1.4 billion $
> to upgrade 500,000 desktops from MSO 2003 to MSO 2013.
> This is only the provincial public service and does not include
> municipal/city-level public service with approx another 300,000.
> 
> The original intent of my message (sorry if I used the wrong mailing
> list) was to make a blog post to say that we as a community are aware
> of the end-of-life for MSO 2003 that is less than a year away, and
> here are some reasons why you should make the switch.
> 
> Yes, the formats are not perfect, and yes the license is free.
> But most important, LibreOffice has 99% (?) of the same
> functionalities of MSO and answers the need of 99% (?) of end-users,
> either individuals or business.

I have to disagree with the above statement. There are still significant 
problems with .docx documents in writer. All text type documents work, 
but recieve something with grapic in it and the conversion does not work 
correctly. i reports this way back on 3.x and 4.0. Still not fixed in 
4.0.2. It occurs both in the openSUSE branded version and the version 
direct from LibreOffice.

If everybody is going to be abadoning .doc this needs to be fixed. I 
final may have found when it occurs today and will report it. (has to do 
with text wraping around the graphic).

Don't get me wrong I use LibreOfiice exclusively and like it. 

And to let you know alot of the .docx documents I get are from B.C. I'm 
in Washinton, close neighor to them.

> LibreOffice is the alternative!
> 
> Cheers from Montreal
> 
> 
> Immanuel


Russ
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8400GS(NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-310.32)  


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

2013-04-22 Thread Italo Vignoli
On 4/22/13 6:28 PM, Immanuel Giulea wrote:

> The original intent of my message (sorry if I used the wrong mailing list)
> was to make a blog post to say that we as a community are aware of the
> end-of-life for MSO 2003 that is less than a year away, and here are some
> reasons why you should make the switch.

Don't worry, the mailing list is OK, although this might also be
interesting for marketing people. Let's elaborate the idea, because a
simple blog post is probably not enough. We should target magazines and
websites covering e-government issues, because IT people might be
reading these media. Unfortunately, politicians - who usually take the
decisions - are not reading media but are prone to MS lobby efforts.

-- 
Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com
mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it
skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

2013-04-22 Thread Immanuel Giulea
I remember seeing a discussion about the White Paper, and I hope that
translations to other languages will be done.

That will help a lot.

Here in Canada, the Quebec government is about to spend 1.4 billion $ to
upgrade 500,000 desktops from MSO 2003 to MSO 2013.
This is only the provincial public service and does not include
municipal/city-level public service with approx another 300,000.

The original intent of my message (sorry if I used the wrong mailing list)
was to make a blog post to say that we as a community are aware of the
end-of-life for MSO 2003 that is less than a year away, and here are some
reasons why you should make the switch.

Yes, the formats are not perfect, and yes the license is free.
But most important, LibreOffice has 99% (?) of the same functionalities of
MSO and answers the need of 99% (?) of end-users, either individuals or
business.

LibreOffice is the alternative!

Cheers from Montreal


Immanuel


On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Jonathan Aquilina
wrote:

> The latest tools allow one to search the keywords before actually using
> them in relation to the number of clicks as of late.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Italo Vignoli  >wrote:
>
> > On 4/22/13 4:28 PM, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> > > Italo are you planning on taking advantage of other means besides
> social
> > > networks such as google plus facebook twitter etc are you planning an
> > > advertisement campaing through google adwords?
> >
> > We can probably enhance our Google AdWords by including terms related to
> > MS Office end-of-life support, although we should make some research to
> > get the right wording. Especially when you target this kind of long
> > descriptions, Google AdWords become tricky, as you might completely miss
> > your target by choosing the wrong association.
> >
> > --
> > Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com
> > mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it
> > skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Jonathan Aquilina
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
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> deleted
>
>

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

2013-04-22 Thread Jonathan Aquilina
The latest tools allow one to search the keywords before actually using
them in relation to the number of clicks as of late.


On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Italo Vignoli wrote:

> On 4/22/13 4:28 PM, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> > Italo are you planning on taking advantage of other means besides social
> > networks such as google plus facebook twitter etc are you planning an
> > advertisement campaing through google adwords?
>
> We can probably enhance our Google AdWords by including terms related to
> MS Office end-of-life support, although we should make some research to
> get the right wording. Especially when you target this kind of long
> descriptions, Google AdWords become tricky, as you might completely miss
> your target by choosing the wrong association.
>
> --
> Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com
> mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it
> skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com
>



-- 
Jonathan Aquilina

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

2013-04-22 Thread Italo Vignoli
On 4/22/13 4:28 PM, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> Italo are you planning on taking advantage of other means besides social
> networks such as google plus facebook twitter etc are you planning an
> advertisement campaing through google adwords?

We can probably enhance our Google AdWords by including terms related to
MS Office end-of-life support, although we should make some research to
get the right wording. Especially when you target this kind of long
descriptions, Google AdWords become tricky, as you might completely miss
your target by choosing the wrong association.

-- 
Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com
mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it
skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

2013-04-22 Thread Charles-H. Schulz
Re to myself: actually the mailing list you use  is the right one but
not its label (it's not board-discuss)...

best,
Charles. 

Le lundi 22 avril 2013 à 16:28 +0200, Jonathan Aquilina a écrit :
> Italo are you planning on taking advantage of other means besides social
> networks such as google plus facebook twitter etc are you planning an
> advertisement campaing through google adwords?
> 
> That would be a great way to get the notion out there that there are
> alternatives and that LO exists. especially since the links come up when
> doing a search.
> 
> 
> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Italo Vignoli wrote:
> 
> > This mailing list is not dead, but we are all volunteers and we all have
> > a family and a work to pay our bills. Sometimes, to reply to messages it
> > takes some time.
> >
> > On 4/22/13 10:06 AM, Pedro wrote:
> >
> > > Regarding your subject, I think that LibreOffice could target those users
> > > but there are two obstacles: the file conversion is not perfect AND (most
> > > important) those users are already too used to MS Office. It is easier to
> > > convince new users to work with a different product than to teach new
> > tricks
> > > to "old dogs".
> >
> > This does not reflect the reality, where most LibreOffice (and
> > OpenOffice) users are coming from the Microsoft field, because they are
> > fed up with license costs or simply looking for an alternative (this is
> > the most frequent approach).
> >
> > The end of life for MS Office 2003 is a significant problem for
> > companies, but not for individuals. Targeting companies is definitely
> > more difficult than targeting individuals, but as far as I know most of
> > them are already trying to manage the problem - at least in Europe - and
> > many of them are looking at migrating to free software.
> >
> > TDF has published a white paper about migrating from Microsoft Office to
> > LibreOffice, which is being translated in several languages. We can use
> > such a document to educate companies and we can even make a version
> > targeted to MS Office 2003 users.
> >
> > The fact that the file conversion is not perfect is not going to change.
> > It will never be perfect, because Microsoft is deliberatedly creating
> > formats which are impossible to emulate in order to reduce the
> > interoperability (interoperability is the death of lock in, and lock in
> > is the cornerstone of Microsoft business model).
> >
> > On the other hand, placing a counter on our website would not reach the
> > potential target of MS Office 2003 users, unless they already know free
> > software and LibreOffice (which would put them in a different group).
> >
> > We should make some hard noise in the Windows environment, using social
> > media and traditional media. Let's brainstorm about a specific message
> > for this target group.
> >
> > --
> > Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com
> > mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it
> > skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com
> >
> > --
> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
> > Problems?
> > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > deleted
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jonathan Aquilina
> 
> -- 
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
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> 


-- 
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Co-Founder & Director, The Document Foundation,
Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint




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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

2013-04-22 Thread Charles-H. Schulz
Hello Jonathan,

This is the wrong list I'm afraid. But to answer your question directly:
we already are using such channels. See the various lists (marketing@)
for more info.

best,
Charles.

Le lundi 22 avril 2013 à 16:28 +0200, Jonathan Aquilina a écrit :
> Italo are you planning on taking advantage of other means besides social
> networks such as google plus facebook twitter etc are you planning an
> advertisement campaing through google adwords?
> 
> That would be a great way to get the notion out there that there are
> alternatives and that LO exists. especially since the links come up when
> doing a search.
> 
> 
> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Italo Vignoli wrote:
> 
> > This mailing list is not dead, but we are all volunteers and we all have
> > a family and a work to pay our bills. Sometimes, to reply to messages it
> > takes some time.
> >
> > On 4/22/13 10:06 AM, Pedro wrote:
> >
> > > Regarding your subject, I think that LibreOffice could target those users
> > > but there are two obstacles: the file conversion is not perfect AND (most
> > > important) those users are already too used to MS Office. It is easier to
> > > convince new users to work with a different product than to teach new
> > tricks
> > > to "old dogs".
> >
> > This does not reflect the reality, where most LibreOffice (and
> > OpenOffice) users are coming from the Microsoft field, because they are
> > fed up with license costs or simply looking for an alternative (this is
> > the most frequent approach).
> >
> > The end of life for MS Office 2003 is a significant problem for
> > companies, but not for individuals. Targeting companies is definitely
> > more difficult than targeting individuals, but as far as I know most of
> > them are already trying to manage the problem - at least in Europe - and
> > many of them are looking at migrating to free software.
> >
> > TDF has published a white paper about migrating from Microsoft Office to
> > LibreOffice, which is being translated in several languages. We can use
> > such a document to educate companies and we can even make a version
> > targeted to MS Office 2003 users.
> >
> > The fact that the file conversion is not perfect is not going to change.
> > It will never be perfect, because Microsoft is deliberatedly creating
> > formats which are impossible to emulate in order to reduce the
> > interoperability (interoperability is the death of lock in, and lock in
> > is the cornerstone of Microsoft business model).
> >
> > On the other hand, placing a counter on our website would not reach the
> > potential target of MS Office 2003 users, unless they already know free
> > software and LibreOffice (which would put them in a different group).
> >
> > We should make some hard noise in the Windows environment, using social
> > media and traditional media. Let's brainstorm about a specific message
> > for this target group.
> >
> > --
> > Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com
> > mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it
> > skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com
> >
> > --
> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
> > Problems?
> > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > deleted
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jonathan Aquilina
> 
> -- 
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> 


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

2013-04-22 Thread Jonathan Aquilina
Italo are you planning on taking advantage of other means besides social
networks such as google plus facebook twitter etc are you planning an
advertisement campaing through google adwords?

That would be a great way to get the notion out there that there are
alternatives and that LO exists. especially since the links come up when
doing a search.


On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Italo Vignoli wrote:

> This mailing list is not dead, but we are all volunteers and we all have
> a family and a work to pay our bills. Sometimes, to reply to messages it
> takes some time.
>
> On 4/22/13 10:06 AM, Pedro wrote:
>
> > Regarding your subject, I think that LibreOffice could target those users
> > but there are two obstacles: the file conversion is not perfect AND (most
> > important) those users are already too used to MS Office. It is easier to
> > convince new users to work with a different product than to teach new
> tricks
> > to "old dogs".
>
> This does not reflect the reality, where most LibreOffice (and
> OpenOffice) users are coming from the Microsoft field, because they are
> fed up with license costs or simply looking for an alternative (this is
> the most frequent approach).
>
> The end of life for MS Office 2003 is a significant problem for
> companies, but not for individuals. Targeting companies is definitely
> more difficult than targeting individuals, but as far as I know most of
> them are already trying to manage the problem - at least in Europe - and
> many of them are looking at migrating to free software.
>
> TDF has published a white paper about migrating from Microsoft Office to
> LibreOffice, which is being translated in several languages. We can use
> such a document to educate companies and we can even make a version
> targeted to MS Office 2003 users.
>
> The fact that the file conversion is not perfect is not going to change.
> It will never be perfect, because Microsoft is deliberatedly creating
> formats which are impossible to emulate in order to reduce the
> interoperability (interoperability is the death of lock in, and lock in
> is the cornerstone of Microsoft business model).
>
> On the other hand, placing a counter on our website would not reach the
> potential target of MS Office 2003 users, unless they already know free
> software and LibreOffice (which would put them in a different group).
>
> We should make some hard noise in the Windows environment, using social
> media and traditional media. Let's brainstorm about a specific message
> for this target group.
>
> --
> Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com
> mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it
> skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>



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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

2013-04-22 Thread Italo Vignoli
This mailing list is not dead, but we are all volunteers and we all have
a family and a work to pay our bills. Sometimes, to reply to messages it
takes some time.

On 4/22/13 10:06 AM, Pedro wrote:

> Regarding your subject, I think that LibreOffice could target those users
> but there are two obstacles: the file conversion is not perfect AND (most
> important) those users are already too used to MS Office. It is easier to
> convince new users to work with a different product than to teach new tricks
> to "old dogs".

This does not reflect the reality, where most LibreOffice (and
OpenOffice) users are coming from the Microsoft field, because they are
fed up with license costs or simply looking for an alternative (this is
the most frequent approach).

The end of life for MS Office 2003 is a significant problem for
companies, but not for individuals. Targeting companies is definitely
more difficult than targeting individuals, but as far as I know most of
them are already trying to manage the problem - at least in Europe - and
many of them are looking at migrating to free software.

TDF has published a white paper about migrating from Microsoft Office to
LibreOffice, which is being translated in several languages. We can use
such a document to educate companies and we can even make a version
targeted to MS Office 2003 users.

The fact that the file conversion is not perfect is not going to change.
It will never be perfect, because Microsoft is deliberatedly creating
formats which are impossible to emulate in order to reduce the
interoperability (interoperability is the death of lock in, and lock in
is the cornerstone of Microsoft business model).

On the other hand, placing a counter on our website would not reach the
potential target of MS Office 2003 users, unless they already know free
software and LibreOffice (which would put them in a different group).

We should make some hard noise in the Windows environment, using social
media and traditional media. Let's brainstorm about a specific message
for this target group.

-- 
Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com
mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it
skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com

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[tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

2013-04-22 Thread Pedro
Hi Immanuel

The Discuss mailing list is dead. It is used to post official news items but
unlike it's exciting name, there is little to no discussion  in here.

Regarding your subject, I think that LibreOffice could target those users
but there are two obstacles: the file conversion is not perfect AND (most
important) those users are already too used to MS Office. It is easier to
convince new users to work with a different product than to teach new tricks
to "old dogs".

In any case it's up to the TDF Directors to worry/answer your question :)

Cheers,
Pedro



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