[tdf-discuss] Re: Just a question
On 11/3/11 10:32 AM, Marc Paré wrote: Hi Ken Le 2011-11-02 18:27, Ken Springer a écrit : Now that I know what a mockup is, that is way beyond my ability to create, without an awful lot of work at my end. The best I could do would be to provide an organizational chart of how I would arrange and link pages, with some comments on the content of the pages. In preparation for the other post I just wrote, I found a problem on the Nabble related pages. I can be on Level B of the hierarchy, click a link to go up to Level A, but then there's no link to get back down to Level B. :-) On the contrary, you comments have added to the discussion and brought out some good points. Being able to do mockups is a bonus for people who can throw one together along with their arguments, but words are still quite useful for all of us. We are still reading your recommendations. Thank you. It's nice to know that comments are appreciated. I read a lot of comments in the Mozilla groups where users wonder if anyone even cares what users think. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.6.8 Firefox 7.0.1 Thunderbird 7.0.1 LibreOffice 3.3.4 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Just a question
Hi, Marc, On 11/2/11 2:57 PM, Marc Paré wrote: Hi Ken Le 2011-11-02 11:53, Ken Springer a écrit : Hopefully, you've read my reply to Florian about the websites and potential confusion if you are at the LO site and not the TDF site. I've been watching the user forum thread in this list, most of which is beyond my understanding, and may post a comment of what I would like to see when it comes to how the whole process appears to an end user. What would a mockup consist of? We have had some discussions on revising some pages on the site and the design team is just now getting to some design changes. It may look like the TDF and LibreOffice sites were just thrown together and in part, yes, they were put together in a very short amount of time due to various reason. But, as we are ALL volunteers and help the community with our available time, some changes may seem to come slowly. But changes will eventually come around depending on the number o f people who are able to make the changes. I saw the design change discussions earlier, but simply didn't have time to post a thoughtful reply. I have noticed the new 'banner at the top of each main page, nicely done. I think one of the biggest disappointment for me, on the LO pages, is all the basic design rules that I learned about in an introductory web design class I took, were not followed. Rules, that if I didn't follow in class, I got marked down for. Sadly, most pages these days don't follow many rules. Guess where I rarely go LOL As we are a very large group, discussions about the website design were taken up on this thread and the design thread. You will have to read back on the different threads about this to catch up on what was discussed so far. More importantly, the design team has elaborated some suggested design changes stemming from past discussions with the community. For example, the downloads pages needs reworking and you the process is just now getting to the point of final review. You can see this process on the design team's whiteboard[1]. You can see some mockups on that page. I checked out the whiteboard, I do like that look. Much simpler, IMO, but gets the job done. If you feel you could contribute with concrete suggestions, feel free to join the design team and suggest some of these on that particular list. It is important that if you are going to contribute, that you do not bring objections to the discussions but rather ideas and positive suggestions relating to design. The designers will not listen nor work with people ranting negative statements as they are all volunteers and offer their help through their free time. BTW, they are an awesome bunch! I try not to rant, although my writing style may read that way to some. And I may try to offer some observations on the design, although those observations may be too late. I try to make my observation,s when viewing something computer related, as if I was the type of user who doesn't even know how the computer organizes/stores files on a hard drive. To be specific, like a friend of mine who I still don't think understands what a web browser is or does. Now that I know what a mockup is, that is way beyond my ability to create, without an awful lot of work at my end. The best I could do would be to provide an organizational chart of how I would arrange and link pages, with some comments on the content of the pages. In preparation for the other post I just wrote, I found a problem on the Nabble related pages. I can be on Level B of the hierarchy, click a link to go up to Level A, but then there's no link to get back down to Level B. :-) -- Ken Mac OS X 10.6.8 Firefox 7.0.1 Thunderbird 7.0.1 LibreOffice 3.3.4 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Just a question
Hi Ken Le 2011-11-02 18:27, Ken Springer a écrit : Now that I know what a mockup is, that is way beyond my ability to create, without an awful lot of work at my end. The best I could do would be to provide an organizational chart of how I would arrange and link pages, with some comments on the content of the pages. In preparation for the other post I just wrote, I found a problem on the Nabble related pages. I can be on Level B of the hierarchy, click a link to go up to Level A, but then there's no link to get back down to Level B. :-) On the contrary, you comments have added to the discussion and brought out some good points. Being able to do mockups is a bonus for people who can throw one together along with their arguments, but words are still quite useful for all of us. We are still reading your recommendations. Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Just a question
Hi, Marc, On 11/1/11 11:45 PM, Marc Paré wrote: Hi Ken, Le 2011-10-31 10:41, Ken Springer a écrit : On 10/31/11 4:52 AM, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hi, Jean-Paul Ghys wrote on 2011-10-30 00:41: But first a statement !Godammit !It is awfully difficult to get in touch with the LibreOffice Foundation !Remember:Kiss !This is not a claim. Just wishng to understand. And speaking in it is not. ;-) There is a contact section on the website, and all our mailing lists are listed in public. Hi, Florian, With all due respect, I have to agree with Jean-Paul. I won't go into details here, I suspect such a discussion probably should be on the website list and/or done privately in a design discussion. I will say this... If I had contracted the programmers of LO's website for an easy to use website, the only way I would pay anything for what *I* see on the site, is if the payment was court ordered. I wish I felt differently about the site. :-( Let's keep in mind that this is a community run project. If you have any suggestions, please make a list and we can discuss the merits of your suggestions along with you input. It would be nice to see a list of even a mock-up of what you would have wanted from your contractors. Keep in mind though that we will collectively decide if it will be added to the site through discussion. Make a list and mockup? You should also submit your mockup to the design team. If you have any skills in web design you could even offer to help just as you are doing here. Hopefully, you've read my reply to Florian about the websites and potential confusion if you are at the LO site and not the TDF site. I've been watching the user forum thread in this list, most of which is beyond my understanding, and may post a comment of what I would like to see when it comes to how the whole process appears to an end user. What would a mockup consist of? -- Ken Mac OS X 10.6.8 Firefox 7.0.1 Thunderbird 7.0.1 LibreOffice 3.3.4 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Just a question
Hi Ken Le 2011-11-02 11:53, Ken Springer a écrit : Hopefully, you've read my reply to Florian about the websites and potential confusion if you are at the LO site and not the TDF site. I've been watching the user forum thread in this list, most of which is beyond my understanding, and may post a comment of what I would like to see when it comes to how the whole process appears to an end user. What would a mockup consist of? We have had some discussions on revising some pages on the site and the design team is just now getting to some design changes. It may look like the TDF and LibreOffice sites were just thrown together and in part, yes, they were put together in a very short amount of time due to various reason. But, as we are ALL volunteers and help the community with our available time, some changes may seem to come slowly. But changes will eventually come around depending on the number o f people who are able to make the changes. As we are a very large group, discussions about the website design were taken up on this thread and the design thread. You will have to read back on the different threads about this to catch up on what was discussed so far. More importantly, the design team has elaborated some suggested design changes stemming from past discussions with the community. For example, the downloads pages needs reworking and you the process is just now getting to the point of final review. You can see this process on the design team's whiteboard[1]. You can see some mockups on that page. If you feel you could contribute with concrete suggestions, feel free to join the design team and suggest some of these on that particular list. It is important that if you are going to contribute, that you do not bring objections to the discussions but rather ideas and positive suggestions relating to design. The designers will not listen nor work with people ranting negative statements as they are all volunteers and offer their help through their free time. BTW, they are an awesome bunch! Note that you may also offer discussions here re: website designs as there are always lurkers from different lists listening in. Cheers, Marc [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Download_Page -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Just a question
Hi, Florian, On 10/31/11 1:44 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hi Ken, Ken Springer wrote on 2011-10-31 17:28: I won't go into details here, I suspect such a discussion probably should be on the website list and/or done privately in a design discussion. I will say this... If I had contracted the programmers of LO's website for an easy to use website, the only way I would pay anything for what *I* see on the site, is if the payment was court ordered. I wish I felt differently about the site. :-( well, I agree that the TDF website itself is a bit out of date and needs work, no doubt. Especially the mailing lists are somehow buried in other content. The LibO sites, however, look much better to me and also reference to the mailing lists. About generally getting in contact with TDF, I think that's easy: www.documentfoundation.org - Contact - click on one of the mail addresses This site I didn't know existed! I wonder if the same is true for Jean-Paul. Quite often, in the different mailing lists, you will see The Document Foundation mentioned in a message. I have always gone here, http://www.libreoffice.org/, to get information about LO. And of course, at the top of the pages, the The Document Foundation is listed directly below Libre Office. Try to find a link to The Document Foundation here. :-) It was the libreoffice.org pages that my negative comments were about, not The Document Foundation pages you mentioned. Any valueable feedback is welcome, of course. Regarding the TDF website, I indeed plan on calling the website mailing list soon to rework the content. I've only spent a few minutes on the TDF site, now, initial reaction is, very nice. Although I may have found something not quite right. But, that's for another thread/day. :-) The LibreOffice site should be as well done. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.6.8 Firefox 7.0.1 Thunderbird 7.0.1 LibreOffice 3.3.4 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Just a question
Hi Ken, Ken Springer wrote on 2011-11-01 00:07: About generally getting in contact with TDF, I think that's easy: www.documentfoundation.org - Contact - click on one of the mail addresses This site I didn't know existed! I wonder if the same is true for Jean-Paul. Quite often, in the different mailing lists, you will see The Document Foundation mentioned in a message. I have always gone here, http://www.libreoffice.org/, to get information about LO. And of course, at the top of the pages, the The Document Foundation is listed directly below Libre Office. Try to find a link to The Document Foundation here. :-) indeed, some nice button leading to the TDF site might be of help. Cc'ing the website list on this. I've only spent a few minutes on the TDF site, now, initial reaction is, very nice. Although I may have found something not quite right. But, that's for another thread/day. :-) The LibreOffice site should be as well done. In case you want to support us, help is always welcome over at the website list, and contributions are very much appreciated. :-) Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Board of Directors at The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Just a question
On 10/31/11 4:52 AM, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hi, Jean-Paul Ghys wrote on 2011-10-30 00:41: But first a statement !Godammit !It is awfully difficult to get in touch with the LibreOffice Foundation !Remember:Kiss !This is not a claim. Just wishng to understand. And speaking in it is not. ;-) There is a contact section on the website, and all our mailing lists are listed in public. Hi, Florian, With all due respect, I have to agree with Jean-Paul. I won't go into details here, I suspect such a discussion probably should be on the website list and/or done privately in a design discussion. I will say this... If I had contracted the programmers of LO's website for an easy to use website, the only way I would pay anything for what *I* see on the site, is if the payment was court ordered. I wish I felt differently about the site. :-( -- Ken Mac OS X 10.6.8 Firefox 7.0.1 Thunderbird 7.0.1 LibreOffice 3.3.4 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Just a question
Hi Ken, Le 2011-10-31 10:41, Ken Springer a écrit : On 10/31/11 4:52 AM, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hi, Jean-Paul Ghys wrote on 2011-10-30 00:41: But first a statement !Godammit !It is awfully difficult to get in touch with the LibreOffice Foundation !Remember:Kiss !This is not a claim. Just wishng to understand. And speaking in it is not. ;-) There is a contact section on the website, and all our mailing lists are listed in public. Hi, Florian, With all due respect, I have to agree with Jean-Paul. I won't go into details here, I suspect such a discussion probably should be on the website list and/or done privately in a design discussion. I will say this... If I had contracted the programmers of LO's website for an easy to use website, the only way I would pay anything for what *I* see on the site, is if the payment was court ordered. I wish I felt differently about the site. :-( Let's keep in mind that this is a community run project. If you have any suggestions, please make a list and we can discuss the merits of your suggestions along with you input. It would be nice to see a list of even a mock-up of what you would have wanted from your contractors. Keep in mind though that we will collectively decide if it will be added to the site through discussion. Make a list and mockup? You should also submit your mockup to the design team. If you have any skills in web design you could even offer to help just as you are doing here. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Just a question
On 10/29/11 4:41 PM, Jean-Paul Ghys wrote: But first a statement !Godammit !It is awfully difficult to get in touch with the LibreOffice Foundation !Remember:Kiss !This is not a claim. Just wishng to understand. And speaking in a language which is not my mother language.Can you understand this ?I was just saying - but this ismy fifth try using different email addreses- that :I cannot understand how comes Sophie Gautier has no mandate whatsoever.To my knowledge, she has always been from the very beginning a very active member first of the OpenOffice community and, from its very beginning, from the LibreOfficeFoundation.Remember: I'am not questioning the votes, just asking a question.Sincerely yours,Jean-Paul Ghys Hi, Florian, With all due respect, I have to agree with Jean-Paul. I won't go into details here, I suspect such a discussion probably should be on the website list and/or done privately in a design discussion. I will say this... If I had contracted the programmers of LO's website for an easy to use website, the only way I would pay anything for what *I* see on the site, is if the payment was court ordered. I wish I felt differently about the site. :-( -- Ken Mac OS X 10.6.8 Firefox 7.0.1 Thunderbird 7.0.1 LibreOffice 3.3.4 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
