Re: Topic of board-discuss list (was: [tdf-discuss] Re: Rules of Procedure approved for TDF board of directors)

2012-10-01 Thread Charles-H. Schulz
I guess what Thorsten means is that in the case of the board discuss list
Nabble might be misconfigured. Jean Weber and David Nelson posted on it
less than a month ago, so at least it works with the standard mailing list
usage. Besides the BoD always intended to make this list a list where
members can raise gouvernance related question so it cannot be intended to
be read only for non board members.

Best,
Charles.
Le 1 oct. 2012 20:17, "Pedro"  a écrit :

> Thorsten Behrens wrote
> > No idea - if you subscribe via
>
> > board-discuss+subscribe@
>
> > , you can post w/o
> > moderation, like on every other TDF mailing list. Nabble
> > misconfiguration?
>
> It is not a misconfiguration. It is a different configuration.
>
> I think you are misinterpreting the words "Public discussion list for the
> Document Foundation board of directors". It is exactly what it means: a
> discussion list FOR the TDF BoD members ONLY with open contents (anyone can
> read for the sake of transparency), but not open participation.
>
> The Discuss list is for open participation.
>
> Cheers,
> Pedro
>
>
>
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> View this message in context:
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> Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: Topic of board-discuss list (was: [tdf-discuss] Re: Rules of Procedure approved for TDF board of directors)

2012-10-01 Thread Pedro
Thorsten Behrens wrote
> No idea - if you subscribe via

> board-discuss+subscribe@

> , you can post w/o
> moderation, like on every other TDF mailing list. Nabble
> misconfiguration?

It is not a misconfiguration. It is a different configuration.

I think you are misinterpreting the words "Public discussion list for the
Document Foundation board of directors". It is exactly what it means: a
discussion list FOR the TDF BoD members ONLY with open contents (anyone can
read for the sake of transparency), but not open participation.

The Discuss list is for open participation.

Cheers,
Pedro



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Re: Topic of board-discuss list (was: [tdf-discuss] Re: Rules of Procedure approved for TDF board of directors)

2012-10-01 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Pedro wrote:
> I'm not sure that is the idea. Otherwise you would not get the following
> message when you try to post to that list on Nabble
> 
> " Authorized Users Only
> Only authorized users can proceed in this area. You can use the form below
> to send a request to the administrators.
> Access Request
> 
No idea - if you subscribe via
board-discuss+subscr...@documentfoundation.org, you can post w/o
moderation, like on every other TDF mailing list. Nabble
misconfiguration?

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: Topic of board-discuss list (was: [tdf-discuss] Re: Rules of Procedure approved for TDF board of directors)

2012-10-01 Thread Pedro
Thorsten Behrens wrote
> terribly sorry if we ever gave that impression. Admittedly, the
> entry on http://www.documentfoundation.org/contribution/ was worded
> like that ("Public discussions of the Board of Directors"), but I'm
> rather certain it should read "List for focused interaction of the
> public with the Board of Directors" instead. Page changed
> accordingly, board-discuss in Cc: in case there's disagreement. ;)

I'm not sure that is the idea. Otherwise you would not get the following
message when you try to post to that list on Nabble

" Authorized Users Only
Only authorized users can proceed in this area. You can use the form below
to send a request to the administrators.
Access Request

Explain to the administrator(s) why you want to access this restricted area.
"

I particularly like the part "Explain why"

So I guess it was not meant for "interaction of the public". Maybe
"interaction of the members" at best...

Regards,
Pedro



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Topic of board-discuss list (was: [tdf-discuss] Re: Rules of Procedure approved for TDF board of directors)

2012-10-01 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Marc Paré wrote:
> Thanks. I am subscribed to that list, but was not aware that the
> membership was allowed to join in. I thought that that particular
> list was for board discussion only by board members only.
> 
Hi Marc,

terribly sorry if we ever gave that impression. Admittedly, the
entry on http://www.documentfoundation.org/contribution/ was worded
like that ("Public discussions of the Board of Directors"), but I'm
rather certain it should read "List for focused interaction of the
public with the Board of Directors" instead. Page changed
accordingly, board-discuss in Cc: in case there's disagreement. ;)

All of that notwithstanding, point taken to spread the word a bit
wider next time such things are on the agenda.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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[tdf-discuss] Re: Rules of Procedure approved for TDF board of directors

2012-10-01 Thread Marc Paré

Le 2012-09-30 17:35, Thorsten Behrens a écrit :

Marc Paré wrote:

Here is my feedback after having read the document:


Thanks a lot Marc for your very detailed review. Since the board has
already approved the earlier version, would you be ok if we table
your suggestions for a little while? It's not unlikely we'll have to
update the rules of procedure in the near future.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten



Sure, I guess.

I am not saying that all of my suggestions are correct, but, the 
document is now up for public display for the world to view and to 
disseminate. Most of my suggestions are grammatical in nature, except 
for the one which deals with the term of "director" which may require a 
change in substance.


Cheers,

Marc


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[tdf-discuss] Re: Rules of Procedure approved for TDF board of directors

2012-10-01 Thread Marc Paré

Le 2012-09-30 17:41, Thorsten Behrens a écrit :

Marc Paré wrote:

Is is just me or has this announcement not been passed on GMane? It
shows in the regular mailing list that I receive in my inbox, but
does not show at all on my GMane which is what I monitor.


Hi Marc,

it seems to be there now:

  http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.steering-discuss/2721


BTW ... when it says "after a public discussion and community
feedback", I could not find this on the discussion list. Or have I
missed something? Where was this discussed and gotten community
feedback?


On the board-discuss list. Feedback welcome on that approach, but
that's where we tend to have focused discussions on board matters.

It is a good list to subscribe to anyway, e.g. board meeting minutes
get sent to that list as well.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten



Thanks. I am subscribed to that list, but was not aware that the 
membership was allowed to join in. I thought that that particular list 
was for board discussion only by board members only.


Cheers,

Marc

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Rules of Procedure approved for TDF board of directors

2012-09-30 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Marc Paré wrote:
> Is is just me or has this announcement not been passed on GMane? It
> shows in the regular mailing list that I receive in my inbox, but
> does not show at all on my GMane which is what I monitor.
>
Hi Marc,

it seems to be there now:

 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.steering-discuss/2721

> BTW ... when it says "after a public discussion and community
> feedback", I could not find this on the discussion list. Or have I
> missed something? Where was this discussed and gotten community
> feedback?
> 
On the board-discuss list. Feedback welcome on that approach, but
that's where we tend to have focused discussions on board matters.

It is a good list to subscribe to anyway, e.g. board meeting minutes
get sent to that list as well.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Rules of Procedure approved for TDF board of directors

2012-09-30 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Marc Paré wrote:
> Here is my feedback after having read the document:
> 
Thanks a lot Marc for your very detailed review. Since the board has
already approved the earlier version, would you be ok if we table
your suggestions for a little while? It's not unlikely we'll have to
update the rules of procedure in the near future.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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[tdf-discuss] Re: Rules of Procedure approved for TDF board of directors

2012-09-30 Thread Marc Paré

Here is my feedback after having read the document:

The overall format is fine, however, the title format should be the same 
throughout. In EN, titles are usually capitalized and should follow 
these conventional rules[1] -- ALL section titles should be checked to 
follow these rules.


=

Processes -> "3. The rules of procedure can enter into effect earliest 
after approval by the board accord ..."


Suggestion: "The rules of procedure can enter into effect at the 
earliest time after approval by the board ..."


Reason: I believe your are attempting to use earliest as an adjective 
(superlative) and adjectives are usually not used by themselves. Other 
options could be "at the earliest convenience". No need to use accord as 
approval has already established that the board has agreed to this.


=

* The rules of procedure must not conflict with TDF statutes. In such 
cases, the conflicting parts are overridden by whatever is mandated by 
the statutes.


Suggestion: "In such cases, the conflicting parts are overridden by the 
corresponding statutes."


Reason: Statutes by definition are normally mandated, there is no need 
to state the obvious as it becomes redundant.


=

* Capitalize title by EN convention

Decision Making and Responsibilities

=

Basic principle - all members of the board of directors participate in 
all board matters by voting. As such, the principle of joint management 
is maintained.


Suggest: "Basic principle - All members of the board of directors 
participate in all board matters by voting. As such, the principle of 
joint management is maintained."


or

my preference: "Basic principle - All members of the board of directors 
participate in all board matters by voting, and, as such, the principle 
of joint management is maintained."


Reason: Capitalize the "All", my preference -- just being picky, but 
would seem to suit best the first exclamatory statement.


=

"Internally, the board has decided on the following split of 
responsibilities:"


Suggest: Replace "split" to "division" as this more translatable and 
less of an EN coloquialism.


=

"For decisions affecting daily operations, and if the vote happens 
electronically via email, for values of less than € 500, or an 
equivalent contractual liability, not answering in the vote thread for 
longer than 2 business days (for reasons including absence and illness) 
counts towards approval."


Suggest: "Where a vote is conducted via email, and, where votes are left 
unanswered in the corresponding thread for a period exceeding 2 business 
days (for reasons including those of absence and illness), unanswered 
votes will count towards an approval. This applies for decisions 
affecting the daily operations, or, of requests to the board where the 
amount concerned is of less than € 500, or, of requests to the board 
that are of an equivalent contractual liability."


Reason: Run on sentence that needs to be reformed.

=

"By simple majority, the board can delegate tasks"

Suggest: "The board can delegate tasks by simple majority."

Reason: Not sure why the sentence was broken up in the first place. As 
both halves of the sentence seem just as important, the sentence should 
then be put back in the right order in order to make it a clear and 
"to-the-point" statement.


=

"Those delegated tasks may have a budget assigned."

Suggest: "Those delegated tasks may have an assigned budget."

Reason: Dangling participle makes the sentence confusing. Sentence also 
needs a period.


=

"Delegated tasks have mandatory reporting and disclosure requirements 
towards the board, including disposition of funds, and achievement of 
objectives."


Suggest: "Members, who have been delegated tasks, may have mandatory 
reporting and disclosure requirements, reporting of the disposition of 
funds (where applicable), and, reporting of the achievement of task 
objectives. These are to be reported to the board"


Reason: "towards" makes the sentence confusing. Breaking up the list of 
obligations also lends itself to confusion.


=

Section 4. introduces a new word "director" which has not been defined 
in the document. What does "director" define or her/his obligations?


Suggest: The "director" title should be defined in a prior section 
somewhere.


=

"It is the sole discretion of the board to setup committees, tasked to 
prepare decisions for the board. Committees can only advise, the 
ultimate decision authority and responsibility lies with the board."


Suggest: "The ultimate "decision authority" and the ownersh

[tdf-discuss] Re: Rules of Procedure approved for TDF board of directors

2012-09-29 Thread Marc Paré
Is is just me or has this announcement not been passed on GMane? It 
shows in the regular mailing list that I receive in my inbox, but does 
not show at all on my GMane which is what I monitor. Is it because it 
carries an attachment?


It this is so, then it means that community members on GMane are not 
getting all of the announcement, and, in this case an important 
announcement for the membership.


BTW ... when it says "after a public discussion and community feedback", 
I could not find this on the discussion list. Or have I missed 
something? Where was this discussed and gotten community feedback?


Cheers,

Marc


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