Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [tdf-discuss] How did AOO figure it was worth $21 Million dollars a day or $7 billion per year?

2013-02-20 Thread Pedro
Italo, you are a firm defender of LibreOffice but sometimes your hate for AOO
and Rob Weir blind you and then you loose any argument.


italovignoli wrote
> Do you really believe that a Mongolian who was used to use OOo in
> Mongolian is happy to use AOO in English? This is just an example, but
> the concept is exactly the same for another 80 languages, which might be
> minor for someone speaking only English but are not minor for the people
> speaking that language.

No one mentioned updates. The statistics are for downloads per country. And
yes, there are for sure many Mongolians that speak and read English and are
happy to use a software in English. I am Portuguese but I prefer to use the
software in English.

Assuming that people can only use a software if it is available in their
native language is both absurd and paternalist.

In any case I agree with a previous argument


> Instead of advertising the value of Free Software to the public (and
> LibreOffice is Free Software as AOO also is), you only think in a
> LibreOffice versus AOO pattern. 

As a Director of the Document Foundation it would be much more interesting
if you provided similar information ABOUT LibreOffice  instead of AGAINST
AOO...



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Re: [tdf-discuss] How did AOO figure it was worth $21 Million dollars a day or $7 billion per year?

2013-02-20 Thread Charles-H. Schulz
Hello everyone,

Le mercredi 20 février 2013 à 10:03 +0100, RA Stehmann a écrit :
> Am 20.02.2013 09:22, schrieb Italo Vignoli:
> > On 2/19/13 7:59 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> > 
> >> There are two base figures: (1) the average number of AOO full-install
> >> downloads per day and (2) an estimated average price for a permanent
> >> Microsoft Office desktop license.  Rob used $150 US which is the price for
> >> Office 2013 Home and Student.  That includes service packs, etc., but not
> >> upgrades to later versions of Microsoft Office.
> > 
> > No, I have just bought a license of Office 2013 Home and Student for 79
> > Euro (I can send you a scan of the invoice). The regular price is lower
> > by 30% (at least).
> > 
> > In addition, people who were already using OOo (most of AOO user base)
> > did not switch at all from MS Office, and therefore did not save any money.
> > 
> > All migrations from MS Office during the last 12 months are to
> > LibreOffice, and this is something that AOO people know very well.
> > Instead of spreading false information (in a press release, which is
> > even worse), AOO should provide numbers about the migrations from MS
> > Office to AOO, if available.
> > 
> 
> Italo,
> 
> your objection is IMO poor.
> 
> Instead of advertising the value of Free Software to the public (and
> LibreOffice is Free Software as AOO also is), you only think in a
> LibreOffice versus AOO pattern.


Let's end this  (useless) argument right there please, and consider that
the blogpost of AOO is  informative, but that the figures expressed are
theoretical only. Otherwise, given the number of downloads from
OpenOffice.org during 10 years, we would have saved the world so much
money we  could have pretty much found the cure for cancer. :-)

Thank you,

-- 
Charles-H. Schulz
Co-Founder & Director, The Document Foundation,
Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint




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Re: [tdf-discuss] How did AOO figure it was worth $21 Million dollars a day or $7 billion per year?

2013-02-20 Thread RA Stehmann
Am 20.02.2013 09:22, schrieb Italo Vignoli:
> On 2/19/13 7:59 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> 
>> There are two base figures: (1) the average number of AOO full-install
>> downloads per day and (2) an estimated average price for a permanent
>> Microsoft Office desktop license.  Rob used $150 US which is the price for
>> Office 2013 Home and Student.  That includes service packs, etc., but not
>> upgrades to later versions of Microsoft Office.
> 
> No, I have just bought a license of Office 2013 Home and Student for 79
> Euro (I can send you a scan of the invoice). The regular price is lower
> by 30% (at least).
> 
> In addition, people who were already using OOo (most of AOO user base)
> did not switch at all from MS Office, and therefore did not save any money.
> 
> All migrations from MS Office during the last 12 months are to
> LibreOffice, and this is something that AOO people know very well.
> Instead of spreading false information (in a press release, which is
> even worse), AOO should provide numbers about the migrations from MS
> Office to AOO, if available.
> 

Italo,

your objection is IMO poor.

Instead of advertising the value of Free Software to the public (and
LibreOffice is Free Software as AOO also is), you only think in a
LibreOffice versus AOO pattern.

Regards
Michael



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Re: [tdf-discuss] How did AOO figure it was worth $21 Million dollars a day or $7 billion per year?

2013-02-20 Thread Italo Vignoli
On 2/19/13 7:59 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:

> There are two base figures: (1) the average number of AOO full-install
> downloads per day and (2) an estimated average price for a permanent
> Microsoft Office desktop license.  Rob used $150 US which is the price for
> Office 2013 Home and Student.  That includes service packs, etc., but not
> upgrades to later versions of Microsoft Office.

No, I have just bought a license of Office 2013 Home and Student for 79
Euro (I can send you a scan of the invoice). The regular price is lower
by 30% (at least).

In addition, people who were already using OOo (most of AOO user base)
did not switch at all from MS Office, and therefore did not save any money.

All migrations from MS Office during the last 12 months are to
LibreOffice, and this is something that AOO people know very well.
Instead of spreading false information (in a press release, which is
even worse), AOO should provide numbers about the migrations from MS
Office to AOO, if available.

-- 
Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com
mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it
skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [tdf-discuss] How did AOO figure it was worth $21 Million dollars a day or $7 billion per year?

2013-02-19 Thread Italo Vignoli
On 2/19/13 7:59 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> SourceForge reports downloads by country.  It appears that the number of
> languages supported does not limit the locations where the downloads happen
> (although destination country is necessarily an estimate, just as it is on
> the ClustrMap of visitors to my web sites).  

Do you really believe that a Mongolian who was used to use OOo in
Mongolian is happy to use AOO in English? This is just an example, but
the concept is exactly the same for another 80 languages, which might be
minor for someone speaking only English but are not minor for the people
speaking that language.

The update mechanism suggests the Mongolian to download the new version,
but I really wonder that the new version in English will be used at all.
Of course, the concept is difficult to explain to someone speaking only
English, and willing to spread false information.

-- 
Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com
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RE: [tdf-discuss] How did AOO figure it was worth $21 Million dollars a day or $7 billion per year?

2013-02-19 Thread Dennis E. Hamilton
I thought the article explained exactly how it was calculated: <
https://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/21_million_per_day>.  There's no need to
speculate.

There are two base figures: (1) the average number of AOO full-install
downloads per day and (2) an estimated average price for a permanent
Microsoft Office desktop license.  Rob used $150 US which is the price for
Office 2013 Home and Student.  That includes service packs, etc., but not
upgrades to later versions of Microsoft Office.

For Office 365/2013 there is a lower price -- the student price for Office
365 rental is a single $79 for a four-year "lease", which includes any
updates to the desktop products in that time.  The $99/year Office 365 Home
Premium (one rental good for noncommercial use on up to 5 machines) is
another option, including not only the Office 2013 versions of Excel, Word,
and PowerPoint, but Outlook, Access, Publisher, and OneNote (and their
updates and upgrades for as long as the rental continues).  

Since it is perhaps personal use that is the most price-sensitive case,
assuming that one download avoids a $100-$150 expense is probably not far
off for estimation purposes.  LibreOffice can use the same logic that Apache
OpenOffice did. 

-Original Message-
From: Charles-H. Schulz [mailto:charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 09:21
To: webmaster-Kracked_P_P
Cc: LibreO - Users Global; LibreO - Discuss
Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] How did AOO figure it was worth $21 Million
dollars a day or $7 billion per year?

Hello Tim,

I suspect they multiply the standard package price of MS Office and
multiply that by their numbers of stated downloads, then divide it by
365. At least that's how I would do it.

best,
Charles. 

Le mardi 19 février 2013 à 12:15 -0500, webmaster-Kracked_P_P a écrit :
> How did AOO figure out how much their version of OOo was worth per day 
> to users?
> 
> I cannot figure out any way.  Of course it makes great Marketing Copy.  
> We are giving our users some much product value, we must be the better 
> product.  FUD or what?
> 
> ---
> 
>
http://www.eweek.com/enterprise-apps/apache-openoffice-valued-at-21m-per-day
> 
>   The Apache Software Foundation (ASF) announced that Apache OpenOffice 
> has a value of $21 million a day.
> 
> ASF officials said Apache OpenOffice has averaged 131,455 downloads per 
> day since its 3.4 release last May. That represents an average value to 
> the public of $21 million per day or $7.61 billion per year, ASF said.
> 


-- 
Charles-H. Schulz
Co-Founder & Director, The Document Foundation,
Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint




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RE: [libreoffice-users] Re: [tdf-discuss] How did AOO figure it was worth $21 Million dollars a day or $7 billion per year?

2013-02-19 Thread Dennis E. Hamilton
SourceForge reports downloads by country.  It appears that the number of
languages supported does not limit the locations where the downloads happen
(although destination country is necessarily an estimate, just as it is on
the ClustrMap of visitors to my web sites).  

I assume that as language versions increase (as just happened in a refresh
of AOO 3.4.1), the proportion of downloads will improve for countries where
those languages are used/preferred by someone.

 - Dennis  

-Original Message-
From: Italo Vignoli [mailto:italo.vign...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 09:26
To: charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org
Cc: webmas...@krackedpress.com; us...@global.libreoffice.org;
discuss@documentfoundation.org
Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: [tdf-discuss] How did AOO figure it was
worth $21 Million dollars a day or $7 billion per year?

On 2/19/13 6:20 PM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:

> I suspect they multiply the standard package price of MS Office and
> multiply that by their numbers of stated downloads, then divide it by
> 365. At least that's how I would do it.

Average number of downloads per day, multiplied by 150 dollars (which is
the inflated average price of MS Office Home, as the price is less than
80 dollars now).

By the way, they claim 236 countries and territories while their
language versions are around 10% than that. Huge FUD by the master of
IBM FUD, Mister Robert Weir.

-- 
Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com
mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it
skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com

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Re: [tdf-discuss] How did AOO figure it was worth $21 Million dollars a day or $7 billion per year?

2013-02-19 Thread webmaster-Kracked_P_P


I really think we need to "advertise" the number of downloads for each 
of our versions.


Actually, if we combined them like AOO did, it would be very misleading.

How many download of 3.6.5 and 4.0.0 has there been so far.  How many 
for 3.6.4 vs. 3.6.5?  That would be useful.


Yes, there are a lot of people who get their version form the Linux 
repositories or some other downloadable site.



On 02/19/2013 12:20 PM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:

Hello Tim,

I suspect they multiply the standard package price of MS Office and
multiply that by their numbers of stated downloads, then divide it by
365. At least that's how I would do it.

best,
Charles.

Le mardi 19 février 2013 à 12:15 -0500, webmaster-Kracked_P_P a écrit :

How did AOO figure out how much their version of OOo was worth per day
to users?

I cannot figure out any way.  Of course it makes great Marketing Copy.
We are giving our users some much product value, we must be the better
product.  FUD or what?

---

http://www.eweek.com/enterprise-apps/apache-openoffice-valued-at-21m-per-day

   The Apache Software Foundation (ASF) announced that Apache OpenOffice
has a value of $21 million a day.

ASF officials said Apache OpenOffice has averaged 131,455 downloads per
day since its 3.4 release last May. That represents an average value to
the public of $21 million per day or $7.61 billion per year, ASF said.






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Re: [tdf-discuss] How did AOO figure it was worth $21 Million dollars a day or $7 billion per year?

2013-02-19 Thread Italo Vignoli
On 2/19/13 6:20 PM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:

> I suspect they multiply the standard package price of MS Office and
> multiply that by their numbers of stated downloads, then divide it by
> 365. At least that's how I would do it.

Average number of downloads per day, multiplied by 150 dollars (which is
the inflated average price of MS Office Home, as the price is less than
80 dollars now).

By the way, they claim 236 countries and territories while their
language versions are around 10% than that. Huge FUD by the master of
IBM FUD, Mister Robert Weir.

-- 
Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com
mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it
skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com

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Re: [tdf-discuss] How did AOO figure it was worth $21 Million dollars a day or $7 billion per year?

2013-02-19 Thread Charles-H. Schulz
Hello Tim,

I suspect they multiply the standard package price of MS Office and
multiply that by their numbers of stated downloads, then divide it by
365. At least that's how I would do it.

best,
Charles. 

Le mardi 19 février 2013 à 12:15 -0500, webmaster-Kracked_P_P a écrit :
> How did AOO figure out how much their version of OOo was worth per day 
> to users?
> 
> I cannot figure out any way.  Of course it makes great Marketing Copy.  
> We are giving our users some much product value, we must be the better 
> product.  FUD or what?
> 
> ---
> 
> http://www.eweek.com/enterprise-apps/apache-openoffice-valued-at-21m-per-day
> 
>   The Apache Software Foundation (ASF) announced that Apache OpenOffice 
> has a value of $21 million a day.
> 
> ASF officials said Apache OpenOffice has averaged 131,455 downloads per 
> day since its 3.4 release last May. That represents an average value to 
> the public of $21 million per day or $7.61 billion per year, ASF said.
> 


-- 
Charles-H. Schulz
Co-Founder & Director, The Document Foundation,
Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint




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