Re: [OSGeo-Edu] Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Training and certification
All, My thoughts on the Incubation process (which are in the archives over the years) was generally that it was too big a step in many cases for projects to take. I've always wondered about some sort of process that could last much longer and with many more steps in it before being declared fully matured. I've also wondered a bit about how to monitor these matured projects after the back. It seems like smaller certification steps/chunks could help here as well. You wouldn't need to require a full review of the whoile incubation process for example. This allows the community much more time to feel out and discuss a project and it's workings as well as an opportunity to guide the process where possible. The all or nothing option of the Incubation process has bothered me from day one. It also allows for at least, a rudimentary (public) history to be captured of a projects as it's developed. bobb Jody Garnett jody.garn...@gmail.com wrote: Interaction with other committees is separate to the the incubation process currently. I like the idea of the straight up reward system: - participation (provision of quick start etc gets you included on the live dvd) - provision of course materials perhaps could allow projects to participate in education initiatives The incubation process is already a MASSIVE ask. Just because it is one that has had some success please do not look at it as an opportunity to ask more from participating projects. As an example: incubation took GeoTools years to accomplish - and is taking many other projects years as well. Please don't add more work to a process already so slow is is ineffective. Is there any way to start these conversations off in the other direct? That is how can the live dvd project bring assistance to bear; or the education committee bring volunteers together to write course materials? Remember that these projects have one (and only one primary objective): bringing code together into releasable form :-) -- Jody Garnett On Sunday, 12 June 2011 at 10:56 AM, Mark Lucas wrote: On Jun 11, 2011, at 8:24 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote: Mark, Yes I agree that OSGeo-Live also provides a good framework for the periodic review of projects beyond incubation. What we have on our side is: 1. A periodic release schedule 2. A valuable business driver which attracts projects to continue to work on OSGeo-Live (namely the marketing value of each release) We do have the potential to gradually introduce review of incubation criteria into the OSGeo-Live release cycle. I was actually thinking of the reverse - incubation graduation would be contingent on getting on the OSGeo-Live disk. Agree it should be gradual, should start out as a goal. Mark ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Edu] Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Training and certification
Il 12/06/2011 02:56, Mark Lucas ha scritto: I was actually thinking of the reverse - incubation graduation would be contingent on getting on the OSGeo-Live disk. Agree it should be gradual, should start out as a goal. I think now incubating and graduated project is not very obvious to users, and it should be made more evident. BTW: why we have projects that are under incubation since so long? All the best. -- Paolo Cavallini: http://www.faunalia.it/pc ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Edu] Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Training and certification
Interaction with other committees is separate to the the incubation process currently. I like the idea of the straight up reward system: - participation (provision of quick start etc gets you included on the live dvd) - provision of course materials perhaps could allow projects to participate in education initiatives The incubation process is already a MASSIVE ask. Just because it is one that has had some success please do not look at it as an opportunity to ask more from participating projects. As an example: incubation took GeoTools years to accomplish - and is taking many other projects years as well. Please don't add more work to a process already so slow is is ineffective. Is there any way to start these conversations off in the other direct? That is how can the live dvd project bring assistance to bear; or the education committee bring volunteers together to write course materials? Remember that these projects have one (and only one primary objective): bringing code together into releasable form :-) -- Jody Garnett On Sunday, 12 June 2011 at 10:56 AM, Mark Lucas wrote: On Jun 11, 2011, at 8:24 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote: Mark, Yes I agree that OSGeo-Live also provides a good framework for the periodic review of projects beyond incubation. What we have on our side is: 1. A periodic release schedule 2. A valuable business driver which attracts projects to continue to work on OSGeo-Live (namely the marketing value of each release) We do have the potential to gradually introduce review of incubation criteria into the OSGeo-Live release cycle. I was actually thinking of the reverse - incubation graduation would be contingent on getting on the OSGeo-Live disk. Agree it should be gradual, should start out as a goal. Mark ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org (mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org) http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Edu] Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Training and certification
I do believe that we as a community have the potential to collaboratively build quality, comprehensive training material, which will provide the key backbone required to support comprehensive, internationally recognised training. (I've already mentioned this to the education and discuss email lists, as well as a few others). The idea: We already collaboratively build the OSGeo-Live DVD by tapping into targeted expertise from a wide range of domain experts. Packagers have written step by step instructions and templates for packaging, and tech writers have provided writing instructions and documentation templates, which are followed by application developers. Once developers have finished, the installers and documents are passed back for review. Why do applications contribute to OSGeo-Live? Because we have built a highly valuable marketing pipeline, (including translations, web pages and a DVD handed out at conferences and workshops). This pipeline is available with a relatively low amount of effort. We can extend this OSGeo-Live build process to also include the development of consistent training documentation. It requires: * educators to create writing guidelines and a template on how projects should write training material. * This is to be provided to developers to fill out. * We then need a technical writer / educator to review all provided material * All this needs to be coordinated * And we need supporting wiki style tools and infrastructure to be put in place This is actually very achievable, but is a bit more than a volunteer can typically take on as a hobby activity, and so I believe that a key to the success is also a funding sponsor. I have quite a bit more to say on this, but will keep it brief for the moment. On 11/06/11 00:13, Phillip Davis wrote: Charles, the GeoTech Center will be at FOSS4G this September offering the following workshops: 1. FOSS4G for Educators (Monday) 2. GTCM Course Development (Tuesday) 3. Remote Sensing DACUM (Wednesday-Thursday) to promote two goals: a) FOSS4G for higher ed and b) alignment of geospatial industry needs and academic GIS program curriculum. Our ongoing effort is the help higher education better align with the new Dept. of Labor's Geospaital Technology Competency Model (GTCM). You can see our work on building SCORM-compliant, GTCM-aligned course packs with curriculum modules here: http://www.geotechcenter.org/Education-Training/GTCM-Faculty-Development-Workshop-Summer-2011. In regards to certification, we fully support the GISCI's effort in improve their GISP certification with a competency-based exam, something they've committed to doing last week, over the next three years. Researchers with GeoTech assisted the GISCI working group that investigated the question over the past 18 months, offering our extensive research into the precise skills required by GIS technicians (and now Remote Sensing Specialist). You can view this research here: http://www.geotechcenter.org/Resources/Publications. Finally, we would like to offer our SCORM-compliant, GTCM-aligned course packs for OSGeo to help us vet and eventually disseminate beginning next May, 2012 when the results of our 2011 workshops have been properly vetted and created. The Center would offer to sit with yourself and the OSGeo board at the forthcoming FOSS4G to discuss collaboration. Phil Davis Director and PI From: edu_discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [edu_discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Charlie Schweik [cschw...@pubpol.umass.edu] Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 8:31 AM To: discuss@lists.osgeo.org Cc: OSGeo-edu Subject: [OSGeo-Edu] Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Training and certification I'm not going to weigh in on the certification question -- I don't understand the companies out there doing training and the issues raised by Cameron and others. Apologies in advance for a long posting. But I find myself puzzling about how this is linked to universities (our edu group) and the discussions about more formal relationships with universities. I teach in an Environmental Conservation department and also in a Public Policy and Administration program. I sometimes have undergrad and grad students interested in going beyond the traditional Intro to GIS course, and would love to be able to somehow offer a more advanced course that would utilize open source technologies and especially training on web-based GIS (currently we have none in our curriculum). Or enterprise-level desktop GIS that might be utilized in small local government settings (that often do not have GIS because of a lack of staffing) -- like small hilltowns in Western Massachusetts, or local governments in developing world contexts. Right now we offer both Intro to GIS courses using ArcGIS and also desktop open source, but we don't have the ability to teach the next level -- an enterprise GIS or web-based GIS. The other thing I am seeing
Re: [OSGeo-Edu] Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Training and certification
Cameron, I like this approach. Extending the excellent work on the OSGeo-Live disk can also be used as a metric for incubation of our leading projects. Tyler and I had a really good discussion in Denver a couple of weeks ago on how we might work towards improving the sponsorship/funding efforts - giving us more resources to move forward. More funding sponsors will be critical to enhancing these types of projects. Additionally, our group has been working with US government agencies over the years encouraging them to adopt open source geospatial solutions. The National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) is working an open source initiative that will be announced at foss4g in Denver. My opinion is that OSGeo has accomplished our initial goals and it is time to start thinking about financially securing its future. I look forward to discussing this further. Mark Lucas Principal Scientist RadiantBlue Technologies Inc. mlu...@radiantblue.com --- http://www.radiantblue.com http://www.ossim.org On Jun 11, 2011, at 4:16 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote: I do believe that we as a community have the potential to collaboratively build quality, comprehensive training material, which will provide the key backbone required to support comprehensive, internationally recognised training. (I've already mentioned this to the education and discuss email lists, as well as a few others). The idea: We already collaboratively build the OSGeo-Live DVD by tapping into targeted expertise from a wide range of domain experts. Packagers have written step by step instructions and templates for packaging, and tech writers have provided writing instructions and documentation templates, which are followed by application developers. Once developers have finished, the installers and documents are passed back for review. Why do applications contribute to OSGeo-Live? Because we have built a highly valuable marketing pipeline, (including translations, web pages and a DVD handed out at conferences and workshops). This pipeline is available with a relatively low amount of effort. We can extend this OSGeo-Live build process to also include the development of consistent training documentation. It requires: * educators to create writing guidelines and a template on how projects should write training material. * This is to be provided to developers to fill out. * We then need a technical writer / educator to review all provided material * All this needs to be coordinated * And we need supporting wiki style tools and infrastructure to be put in place This is actually very achievable, but is a bit more than a volunteer can typically take on as a hobby activity, and so I believe that a key to the success is also a funding sponsor. I have quite a bit more to say on this, but will keep it brief for the moment. On 11/06/11 00:13, Phillip Davis wrote: Charles, the GeoTech Center will be at FOSS4G this September offering the following workshops: 1. FOSS4G for Educators (Monday) 2. GTCM Course Development (Tuesday) 3. Remote Sensing DACUM (Wednesday-Thursday) to promote two goals: a) FOSS4G for higher ed and b) alignment of geospatial industry needs and academic GIS program curriculum. Our ongoing effort is the help higher education better align with the new Dept. of Labor's Geospaital Technology Competency Model (GTCM). You can see our work on building SCORM-compliant, GTCM-aligned course packs with curriculum modules here: http://www.geotechcenter.org/Education-Training/GTCM-Faculty-Development-Workshop-Summer-2011. In regards to certification, we fully support the GISCI's effort in improve their GISP certification with a competency-based exam, something they've committed to doing last week, over the next three years. Researchers with GeoTech assisted the GISCI working group that investigated the question over the past 18 months, offering our extensive research into the precise skills required by GIS technicians (and now Remote Sensing Specialist). You can view this research here: http://www.geotechcenter.org/Resources/Publications. Finally, we would like to offer our SCORM-compliant, GTCM-aligned course packs for OSGeo to help us vet and eventually disseminate beginning next May, 2012 when the results of our 2011 workshops have been properly vetted and created. The Center would offer to sit with yourself and the OSGeo board at the forthcoming FOSS4G to discuss collaboration. Phil Davis Director and PI From: edu_discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [edu_discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Charlie Schweik [cschw...@pubpol.umass.edu] Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 8:31 AM To: discuss@lists.osgeo.org Cc: OSGeo-edu Subject: [OSGeo-Edu] Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Training and certification I'm not going to weigh in on the certification question -- I don't
Re: [OSGeo-Edu] Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Training and certification
to discuss collaboration. Phil Davis Director and PI From: edu_discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org mailto:edu_discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [edu_discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Charlie Schweik [cschw...@pubpol.umass.edu] Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 8:31 AM To: discuss@lists.osgeo.org mailto:discuss@lists.osgeo.org Cc: OSGeo-edu Subject: [OSGeo-Edu] Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Training and certification I'm not going to weigh in on the certification question -- I don't understand the companies out there doing training and the issues raised by Cameron and others. Apologies in advance for a long posting. But I find myself puzzling about how this is linked to universities (our edu group) and the discussions about more formal relationships with universities. I teach in an Environmental Conservation department and also in a Public Policy and Administration program. I sometimes have undergrad and grad students interested in going beyond the traditional Intro to GIS course, and would love to be able to somehow offer a more advanced course that would utilize open source technologies and especially training on web-based GIS (currently we have none in our curriculum). Or enterprise-level desktop GIS that might be utilized in small local government settings (that often do not have GIS because of a lack of staffing) -- like small hilltowns in Western Massachusetts, or local governments in developing world contexts. Right now we offer both Intro to GIS courses using ArcGIS and also desktop open source, but we don't have the ability to teach the next level -- an enterprise GIS or web-based GIS. The other thing I am seeing is a movement away from standard lecture format to one where the prof might use YouTube videos or other open access content outside of class and then use class time to be more hands-on. Also there is a push at our university to try and use more open access educational material to help reduce the costs of textbooks and coursepacks on students. This leads me to my questions regarding training and this discussion. 1) How can we collectively act and utilize the expertise within OSGeo software groups and other affiliates to develop a set of training material that could be connected to university classes? Could people on this list with expertise develop modules? Could we develop, collectively, workbooks along with data and exercises that we instructors could use? If there are people out there willing to contribute to this idea, who are you and what kind of material would you be willing to contribute? For example, I would love to get some students learning how to use technology like OpenLayers or other web-based GIS technologies, but I don't have those skills so would want to offer a group independent study under my direction, where students could try and learn these kinds of technologies on their own and together, under my direction and with the support of this OSGeo network. 2) Would it be possible to develop a network of classes in affiliated institutions that are all teaching the same content in parallel, and perhaps all using one Moodle course hosted by OSGeo? In other words, have face-to-face classes running in parallel on several universities during the same time frame (e.g., Sept-December or January-May) where these classes are meeting face-to-face but then we have the ability to tie expertise and he classes together via Moodle or maybe hold some webinars by technical experts that all classes in all universities (timezones will be an issue here)? This would at least work for universities in locations where they have decent Internet connection. But the idea might be the start of the content for a proposal to educational funding agencies or foundations and I greatly appreciate the approach Cameron has done for the Free DVD in terms of having an editor who coordinates these things. Some proposal for funding would need to put forth that model. I hope these ideas are helpful and not noise Cheers Charlie Schweik UMass Amherst Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in this email, including attachments, may be privileged, proprietary, and/or confidential as provided by law. The information in this email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by replying to the email message and immediately return the email, attachments, and any and all copies to the sender. If you are not the intended recipient of this email and received it in error, please be advised that you may be subject to civil liability for any use of privileged, proprietary, and/or confidential information contained herein. ___ Edu_discuss mailing list edu_disc...@lists.osgeo.org mailto:edu_disc...@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/edu_discuss -- Cameron Shorter Geospatial
Re: [OSGeo-Edu] Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Training and certification
On Jun 11, 2011, at 8:24 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote: Mark, Yes I agree that OSGeo-Live also provides a good framework for the periodic review of projects beyond incubation. What we have on our side is: 1. A periodic release schedule 2. A valuable business driver which attracts projects to continue to work on OSGeo-Live (namely the marketing value of each release) We do have the potential to gradually introduce review of incubation criteria into the OSGeo-Live release cycle. I was actually thinking of the reverse - incubation graduation would be contingent on getting on the OSGeo-Live disk. Agree it should be gradual, should start out as a goal. Mark ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
