Re: PPIG discuss: Documentation for large systems

2007-11-06 Thread Derek M Jones
Ruven, I have just been given the assignment of investigating techniques for documenting a 1.5 million line system. Who will be the reader of these documents? If the readers are going to be software developers working on the source do you think the exercise will be cost effective? After all,

Re: PPIG discuss: Documentation for large systems

2007-11-06 Thread Ruven E Brooks
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 11/06/2007 10:21:14 AM: Who will be the reader of these documents? If the readers are going to be software developers working on the source do you think the exercise will be cost effective? After all, if there are only going to be a few readers and they are only

Re: PPIG discuss: Documentation for large systems

2007-11-06 Thread Daniel Ratiu
If you could have a 20 page initial document on the internal structure of this system, what would that document contain? My own initial thought was some kind of box-and-line major subsystems document but the exact semantics of the boxes and the lines is still open.   Beside the major

Re: PPIG discuss: Documentation for large systems

2007-11-06 Thread Frank Wales
Ruven E Brooks wrote: I have just been given the assignment of investigating techniques for documenting a 1.5 million line system. Suppose that you were hired (at an outrageous salary, of course) to be the chief architect of this system. If you could have a 20 page initial document on the

Re: PPIG discuss: Documentation for large systems

2007-11-06 Thread Andrew Walenstein
Ruven E Brooks wrote: Suppose that you were hired (at an outrageous salary, of course) to be the chief architect of this system. If you could have a 20 page initial document on the internal structure of this system, what would that document contain?... Other thoughts, suggestions are welcome.

Re: PPIG discuss: Documentation for large systems

2007-11-06 Thread William Billingsley
Ruven, I'm a man with a hammer, so I'm interested in finding out whether your problem might be a nail... From the issue you've described (it's difficult to know where to start and what to read), it sounds like the shortage is not in the detailed documentation per se, but in an

Re: PPIG discuss: Documentation for large systems

2007-11-06 Thread Michael Kölling
On 6 Nov 2007, at 18:53, Boris Ouretskey wrote: Anyway to document large system it is obligatory to use wiki pages (and a lot of time of cause) and give all the company an opportunity to participate in the process. Wiki? Obligatory?? I don't believe in wikis at all. I know there is

RE: PPIG discuss: Documentation for large systems

2007-11-06 Thread Boris Ouretskey
For the first document I'd rather have a presentation with notes. They seem to convey high level information more effectively. Anyway to document large system it is obligatory to use wiki pages (and a lot of time of cause) and give all the company an opportunity to participate in the process.

RE: PPIG discuss: Documentation for large systems

2007-11-06 Thread Brad Myers
Ruven, Do you have documentation or citations for any of your claims and figures? It would be helpful for motivating our research program. Thanks, Brad A. Myers Professor Human Computer Interaction Institute School of Computer Science Carnegie Mellon University 5000 Forbes Avenue Pittsburgh,

RE: PPIG discuss: Documentation for large systems

2007-11-06 Thread Boris Ouretskey
I have to agree with you that wiki methodology adoption depends heavily on companies' (organization) culture, but so is anything else. Though the question of How to document a large system - is too general to answer , I still see wikis as very powerful method to accumulate and maintain

Re: PPIG discuss: Documentation for large systems

2007-11-06 Thread Andrew Walenstein
Gaspar, Alessio (USF Lakeland) wrote: I can understand the love'em / hate'm positions regarding wikis, however I couldn't help but notice that some of the arguments below are very close to what used to be said by corporations about open source projects and development methodologies All wikis

RE: PPIG discuss: Documentation for large systems

2007-11-06 Thread Gaspar, Alessio (USF Lakeland)
I can understand the love'em / hate'm positions regarding wikis, however I couldn't help but notice that some of the arguments below are very close to what used to be said by corporations about open source projects and development methodologies All wikis don't have to be wikipedias; they can

RE: PPIG discuss: Documentation for large systems

2007-11-06 Thread Boris Ouretskey
Gergely, Firstly Michael's response was related to wiki's in general and not to wiki's in corporation. So my example was going to show that at least in some cases it works fine and for that matter cannot be considered as myth. Secondly denying completely fun, professionalism

Re: PPIG discuss: Documentation for large systems

2007-11-06 Thread Gergely Buday
Michael wrote: The result, much more often than not in my experience, is a document that nobody takes responsibility for, that has very weak overall structure, and random level of detail over various parts. No guarantee that important information is represented appropriately at all. I'd