On this topic of how to help people make the move from procedural to more oo-like development, I started to say the following in my last reply, but decided it deserved a new subject.
Also, I know some people don't bother to read a note that's more than a paragraph or two, so I didn't want what I was saying to Cam in the last note to be missed. :-) For those really interested, and especially if you too have struggled with that move (or are concerned for those who have), please read on. I'll welcome your thoughts. I've always thought it would be great to see a discussion of patterns that reaches across the ways they may be used by CFers of all stripes, leading those unfamiliar with objects into a natural progression to understanding their use, as tied to patterns also. Naturally that's tough to do in a single user group meeting, and really in a single audience. There are different ways and levels to reach, so a progressive series would be best. That's probably better left to more of a class, or perhaps a repeating series of user group meetings. For a live group, it may be too much to expect to devote more than a couple of meetings to such an effort, but it would be a great thing for the CF Meetup (coldfusionmeetup.com), if anyone's ever interested in tackling it. It would be a great contribution to the community, and one I've thought to do, but honestly I'm a part of the crowd that still doesn't quite get OO and frameworks. There, I said it. :-) I've explained that it was partly because I no longer build apps from scratch, and rather help those who already have them, so I've not needed to make that choice. I've pointed out that I was focused on BD from 2003-2006, and really not building any apps during that time, when the community was so vigorously making the move to this new development paradigm. I've also pointed out (in JDJ articles in 2001, available at carehart.org/articles) that the move to J2EE and java/OO paradigms was going to be tough for CFers in general, who were for so long such procedural folks. I almost feel about it like I do calculus. That was the only class I ever failed in college (otherwise I was a b+ student). There was just something about it that never quite clicked, and I took it 3 times! I wonder sometimes if there's just some key missing ingredient to help people like me to make the leap. Clearly, many others have. It may well just be the need to dive in to the deep end and struggle until you can swim. Again, if I had to create enterprise apps for a living, I'd certainly consider that approach even on some small test project. For now, though, it's just not been worth the time for me. If there's any good news from all this, it keeps me at a level where I can observe presentations of such "higher math" that might lead more traditional programmers to stumble. I don't mind representing them. :-) And indeed, it's what motivated my response to Cam's initial note. I wonder sometimes how many others are out there of the same mind, but just reluctant to admit it, for fear of looking like a boob and a luddite. Fortunately, I really feel confident that how I got to where I am is explainable, so I don't mind admitting it. :-) And I should add that I've read several books on Java, OO, frameworks, patterns, both generic and CF-specific. I still fail to see the help for making the progression that I sense is needed. And indeed, that was a complaint I leveled in the JDJ articles 7 years ago. Others chimed in with comments then agreeing, and I wonder sometimes if the problem really has gotten any better, or if people still have little choice but to "dive into the deep end". But like I said, a set of talks to help bring people along in that path of progression would be a great contribution to the community. I guess the question some would ask is how many people really need it. If one thinks most have made the leap, then I can understand feeling that the rest just need to be left behind. I think it actually represents a far greater percent of the CF community, that choose to remain quiet about their sense of having been left behind. I really don't think it's their fault, and I think someone could make some good money helping solve the problem. I'd be interested in helping, if anyone's interested. /charlie ------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -------------------------------------------------------------
