Re: [TEST] Test mailing list subscription status after a quiet period
Hi Haim, My POV is that If you build it, they will come. Nobody _needs_ posters in order to get a LUG going. Posters may be printed for W2L events, but usually (at least in Haifux) promotion of the W2L was done using simple copy-machine prints. The important thing about setting up a LUG is getting good lecturers to begin a standard, and getting good people who wish to be the core of the group. I suggest that before investing money in PR, you researched the level of interest in that regard. Previous new LUGs did not have a LUG within about 100 kilometers from them. BIUX will have Telux in the same city. Will there be enough people who want to come to BIUX? Or will the people who come to Telux just come sometimes here and sometimes there, thus reducing the number of people in each lecture? A minimal number of people is required in a lecture, otherwise the lecturer feels cheated - the lecturer has travelled for some time, wasting money and time, and nobody (or very few people) want to listen to him/her. Orna. On Sat, 31 Dec 2005, Haim Tzadok wrote: Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 02:52:17 +0200 From: Haim Tzadok [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: discussions@hamakor.org.il Cc: Omer Zak [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TEST] Test mailing list subscription status after a quiet period Dotan, I support your ideas and think this is the right way to build a good frame of work. As I mentioned in a reply to Shlomi's mail(which was practically ignored): Is there any intention from the Amuta/Vaad to proceed promoting each club continuing activities ?! In Bar-Ilan, we intend to continue with a bi-weekly lectures, from the start of the 2nd semester.(March-06) For that we need more resources (postcards, posters, CD's etc...) and of course lecturers - if anyone has any interesting subject in Linux/open source he want to present. Haim On 12/30/05, Dotan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Omer Zak wrote: At this opportunity I would like to ask the candidates for the next Hamakor Board elections to tell us exactly what they think should be done by them in their role as Board members, and what should be done in their role as acting project leaders. �¤�¨��×� � �§����× �©����� �×� ��§�� ��¢��¨ ��×��� ��§�¨�� �¢���� �- http://mirror.hamakor.org.il/archives/discussions/12-2005/2954.html ����¤�¨ �©����× ���¤� � ��� ��¢�§���× ��¤�¨���� �� �¢� � ��¨�©���× ������¨ ��� ��©�� ��©����× � ����¤��×. �� � �� �¨��� ��¢� ��¤�¨� ����§� ��× ����¨�� �©�� � ��¢�©� ����× ��� � �¨��� ��× �¤�¢���× ���¢� �� ��� � ��©��×��£ �¤�¢��� ������¨�×� ��© ����§� �©� ������× ��� ������£ �©� �¤�¨��� ����¦�¢�� ���¨�� ����¤� �¢�¦��� �©��� � �×��� ���×�¨ ���¨� ���¢�. �� � ���©�, ����� � �©����¨�� ��¤� �©��¦��� ��� � ��¤��� �� �¨���§ ��×�¤���� ��, �©����¨ ��¢� �×�¤�§��� �¦�¨�� �����× �¤���× ��¨�� �©� � ���� �¤�¨���§��� ��¤��¢� ��� ��¦��¨�× �©�� �¤��¨� �� ������ �� �©�¨��¦�� ��� ���¦��¨�£ ���§�� �¤�¨���§� �§��� �� ���×��� ��¤�¨���§� ���©. ���§ �����¨��� �©����¨�� ���¦��¨ ��× ������¨� ���×���� ��� ��¢��� ��¢��¨���× �×��� ��×����× �����¨�× �×�§�¦����× ��¨��¨� ��×����� ��©�� �� ���×� ���¤�© ���¨�� ���¤� ���× ��×�§�¦�� ������¨�× �� ��¤�¢���� ����×� �×��� �� ��� �©����¨ ��¨�� ��× ��¤�¢����× ��×��� �����¨. �� � ���©� �©��×� ���¤�© �©��� ���� ���¦� �� �� ��� �©����¨ ���×��§� �� ��©� ������� ���� �����¢ �� ��× ���×� ��¨�� ����©��× ���©��× ����¨��× ����×� �×��� ���� �� ��¦�� ����¤� ��� ���×�¨ ���©��¨� ��¤�¢���� ����¦��¨�×���× �©��� ������× �¤�¢������× �©�� ��× ����× �� ��� �¢� ����¨�× �������¦�� �©� ��¤�¢���� ��§��× ����� �����¦�� ���¨�� ��¤��¢�. ���� ��¦��� �©�� ���¢� �� ���� ���¦�¢ ���¢�©� �¤����� �©� �©��� �� ������¨�× ���� ��× �����¨�× ��¦��¨�¤�� ���� ��§��, �¢� ��� ��§�¦��× �×�§�¦�� �����¨� ���� �� ����� �©� ���� �×�� ��§�¨� ���¢��× �¢� ���¤� ��©����© ��×�§�¦��, ��� �� � ���©� �� �©�����× �©�� ��× � �¤�� ������¨�× ���×� �¤���� ��� ��© ��§�� ��©��¤��¨ �¨� ���©��. ��¢��¨ �����¨ ����� �×� ��©���¨ �¢� �§�©�¨ ��©��¨ �����§ ���×�¨ �¢� ��¤�¢���� ������� ��¤�¨���§��� �×�� � ���� �� �©�� ��� � �� � ��§��� �� ���� ����� ��� ���×�¨ �¢� ���¨��©��× �©�¢�����× ��¤� ��� �� �©���� ���¤� ��× ����� ��×
BIUX vs. TELUX (was: Re: [TEST] Test mailing list subscription status after a quiet period)
On Sat, 2005-12-31 at 12:56 +0200, Orna Agmon wrote: Previous new LUGs did not have a LUG within about 100 kilometers from them. BIUX will have Telux in the same city. Will there be enough people who want to come to BIUX? Or will the people who come to Telux just come sometimes here and sometimes there, thus reducing the number of people in each lecture? A minimal number of people is required in a lecture, otherwise the lecturer feels cheated - the lecturer has travelled for some time, wasting money and time, and nobody (or very few people) want to listen to him/her. BIUX is indeed near to TELUX for people with car or other means of transportation. However, at rush hours, transportation time between TAU and BIU can be as long as an hour, equivalent to 100Km of inter-city clear road. And LUG meetings typically start at or shortly after rush hour. So it makes sense to hold some Linux related lectures in BIU. I suggest that BIUX and TELUX coordinate their lectures and times so that at least people with too much time on their hands will be able to profitably spend their time in both TELUX and BIUX. It may also be a good idea to schedule a lecture and then let the BIUX and TELUX members vote together where they prefer to hear the lecture - TAU or BIU. Then hold the lecture where the majority prefers it. (NOTE: the above was written under the general philosophy of trying to support an activity as much as possible by finding for it means to make sense, rather than kill it due to a reason from a never-ending list of reasons and excuses.) --- Omer -- Sent from a PC running a top secret test version of Windows 97. My own blog is at http://www.livejournal.com/users/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [TEST] Test mailing list subscription status after a quiet period
Orna Agmon wrote: Hi Haim, My POV is that If you build it, they will come. Nobody _needs_ posters in order to get a LUG going. Posters may be printed for W2L events, but usually (at least in Haifux) promotion of the W2L was done using simple copy-machine prints. And ofcourse the time of the LUG coordinator/s. The important thing about setting up a LUG is getting good lecturers to begin a standard, and getting good people who wish to be the core of the group. I suggest that before investing money in PR, you researched the level of interest in that regard. In the JLC there are almost two paralel courses going - the 1st is the common weekdays afternoon lectures which requires lecturers as mentioned but we also have a wired Saturday night meetings tradition going on which allows those who can't come to the lecture to enjoy the community atmosphere and participate in other activities. I guess theses Saturday night meetings are much like the Tapuz forum meetings and naturaly it does not require lecturers and relay mostly on some sort of community. Previous new LUGs did not have a LUG within about 100 kilometers from them. BIUX will have Telux in the same city. Will there be enough people who want to come to BIUX? Or will the people who come to Telux just come sometimes here and sometimes there, thus reducing the number of people in each lecture? A minimal number of people is required in a lecture, otherwise the lecturer feels cheated - the lecturer has travelled for some time, wasting money and time, and nobody (or very few people) want to listen to him/her. To be honest we had two lectures canceled in the JLC due to lack of audiance and despite being far from otehr LUGS and indeed it was no fun, not for the lecturers and not for me. I guess the secret is to keep going, FOSS is gaining more interest with every year/month/week and consistent LUG activity will pay sooner or later. Anyway, back to the point I raised before, I hope letting the activists choose where the budget they get goes will let them come up with creative ideas and solutions that will finnaly push FOSS, in general, forward. Dotan - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Wikipedia and Wallapedia
On 2005-12-30 19:12, Orna Agmon wrote: Wallapedia http://pedia.walla.co.il/ has taken a snapshot of Wikipedia content (which is under the GFDL) and is presenting it on its site. The wikipedia pages are presented with the footer Copyright 2004 walla! All rights reserved in addition to the GFDL. Legally that's fine. Walla indeed has the copyright for some elements of the page (e.g., the formatting markup); and they do distribute it under the GFDL. However, at the bottom of the page they also have a link to תנאי השימוש באתר (http://friends.walla.co.il/ts.cgi?tsscript=disclaimer), which are not GFDL-compliant. That's a clear GFDL violation. They are also in violation of Section 3 (Copying in Quantity) since they do not provide the transparent version (editable Wiki source) of the articles. If anyone arranges a legal approach, you may count me in as a (currently pseudonymous) copyright holder. wallapedia does not present author credits, which is in violation of the GFDL. That part is far from clear, alas. Under Section 4 of the GFDL (Modification) they must list the original authors, and also preserve the warranty disclaimers; they do neither. But Walla can claim to have used the Document under Section 2 (Verbatim Copying), and if Document is taken to be just the article text per se then they would be in compliance this section. [1] The problem is that the GFDL and Wikipedia don't define the scope of the Document. Is it each paragraph by itself, or the article text, or the full article page, or the article page and its associated History and Talk pages, or maybe the whole site? The definition of Document in the GFDL (any [...] manual or work [that] contains a notice placed by the copyright holder saying it can be distributed under the terms of this License) sheds little light on this question. [2] The omission of a useful definition of Document and Modified work is a serious issue and greatly weakens the ability to enforce the GFDL on Wikipedia material. It may not have been much of an issue for regular books (for which, clearly, the GFDL was designed), but it's surprising to see such gaping holes in a license drafted just 3 years ago. In the unlikely case that this wasn't discussed before, maybe it should be brought up in the relevant Wikipedia cabals. BTW, does this have anything to do with Hamakor? Eran [1] Actually under Israeli law Walla may still have to provide author information due to the moral right requirements, but this is weakened by permission for verbatim copying of a Document that itself contains no authorship information; it's also country-specific. [2] You can claim that the smallest Wikipedia unit which literally contains a notice is the full article page, including its formatting and footer. This may be technically correct, but far from being sufficiently clear and obvious to guarantee successful enforcement. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Wikipedia and Wallapedia
שלום לכולם, ובעיקר לחברי וועדת האתיקה המכובדים.
(השורה הקודמת כוללת הומור פרטי).
אני חושב שכל עוד מאייתים את השם של ווקפדיה נכון, הרי זה משובח.
אולי אפשר למצוא תת סעיף ואפילו סעיף שלם שלא בדיוק מתיישבים עם העיצוב
המכוער או השם הדוחה שהם בחרו לפרויקט.
אבל בעיני כל זה משני לעובדה שאחד האתרים הגדולים במדינה נותן לגיטמציה
לפרויקט חופשי.
נכון, שבעיני ואני משער שבעיני רבים, ווקפדיה היא זו המעניקה לגיטמציה
לוואלה, אבל אני חושב שהמאבק העיקרי הוא דעת הקהל. ככול שיותר אנשים יחשפו
לאיכות של פרויקטים חופשיים, כך הלגיטמציה של רעיון החופש בעיני הציבור
תלך ותגדל. אם הפרויקט של וואלה יחשוף עוד אנשים לאיכות המוצרים שהקוד
הפתוח מנפיק, אז הרווח הוא נקי.
בכלל, הרעיון של להעתיק תכנים מווקפדיה במקום פשוט להפנות לשם אנשים הוא
דבילי במהותו. וויקי עושה את מה שהוא עושה באופן נהדר, משום שהממשק הוא
חלק מהרעיון. מה שוואלה עשו זה לקחת ממשק חופשי ולשים עליו משקפיים
קניניים. אבל אפשר להתייחס לזה כמו להריץ אופן אופיס תחת חלונות. סה"כ שלב
לקראת הדבר האמיתי.
אם ynet יתחילו עכשיו להזיע ובזכות זה עוד מידע יצא לחופשי, אם האתרים
הבורגניים בארץ יבינו שהקוד הפתוח הוא עוצמה ולתמוך בו יתרום להם, אז
דיינו.
אגב, חשבתם על זה שאם מקשיבים למעבד בזמן שהוא עובד, אפשר לפענח את המידע
העובר דרכו?
יום טוב.
רם-און.
Eran Tromer wrote:
On 2005-12-30 19:12, Orna Agmon wrote:
Wallapedia http://pedia.walla.co.il/ has taken a snapshot of Wikipedia
content (which is under the GFDL) and is presenting it on its site. The
wikipedia pages are presented with the footer "Copyright 2004 walla! All
rights reserved" in addition to the GFDL.
Legally that's fine. Walla indeed has the copyright for some elements of
the page (e.g., the formatting markup); and they do distribute it under
the GFDL.
However, at the bottom of the page they also have a link to "תנאי השימוש
באתר" (http://friends.walla.co.il/ts.cgi?tsscript=disclaimer), which are
not GFDL-compliant. That's a clear GFDL violation.
They are also in violation of Section 3 ("Copying in Quantity") since
they do not provide the transparent version (editable Wiki source) of
the articles.
If anyone arranges a legal approach, you may count me in as a (currently
pseudonymous) copyright holder.
wallapedia does not present author credits, which is in violation of the GFDL.
That part is far from clear, alas.
Under Section 4 of the GFDL (Modification) they must list the original
authors, and also preserve the warranty disclaimers; they do neither.
But Walla can claim to have used the Document under Section 2 (Verbatim
Copying), and if "Document" is taken to be just the article text per se
then they would be in compliance this section. [1]
The problem is that the GFDL and Wikipedia don't define the scope of the
"Document". Is it each paragraph by itself, or the article text, or the
full article page, or the article page and its associated History and
Talk pages, or maybe the whole site? The definition of "Document" in the
GFDL ("any [...] manual or work [that] contains a notice placed by the
copyright holder saying it can be distributed under the terms of this
License") sheds little light on this question. [2]
The omission of a useful definition of "Document" and "Modified work" is
a serious issue and greatly weakens the ability to enforce the GFDL on
Wikipedia material. It may not have been much of an issue for regular
books (for which, clearly, the GFDL was designed), but it's surprising
to see such gaping holes in a license drafted just 3 years ago.
In the unlikely case that this wasn't discussed before, maybe it should
be brought up in the relevant Wikipedia cabals.
BTW, does this have anything to do with Hamakor?
Eran
[1] Actually under Israeli law Walla may still have to provide author
information due to the "moral right" requirements, but this is weakened
by permission for verbatim copying of a "Document" that itself contains
no authorship information; it's also country-specific.
[2] You can claim that the smallest Wikipedia unit which literally
"contains a notice" is the full article page, including its formatting
and footer. This may be technically correct, but far from being
sufficiently clear and obvious to guarantee successful enforcement.
-
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For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Wikipedia and Wallapedia
On 2005-12-31 20:54, Ram-on Agmon wrote: אני חושב שכל עוד מאייתים את השם של ווקפדיה נכון, הרי זה משובח. [...] אבל בעיני כל זה משני לעובדה שאחד האתרים הגדולים במדינה נותן לגיטמציה לפרויקט חופשי. [...] אבל אני חושב שהמאבק העיקרי הוא דעת הקהל. ככול שיותר אנשים יחשפו לאיכות של פרויקטים חופשיים, כך הלגיטמציה של רעיון החופש בעיני הציבור תלך ותגדל. אם הפרויקט של וואלה יחשוף עוד אנשים לאיכות המוצרים שהקוד הפתוח מנפיק, אז הרווח הוא נקי. הלגיטימציה והחשיפה מוגבלים כאן ליודעי דבר, שכן ואללה! לא מציינים את מקור המידע, וגם כותבים במפורש שהתוכן אינו חופשי (באחד משני הקישורים המשפטיים). ערן Sysop, Northern Castle BBS - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Wikipedia and Wallapedia
הי ערן. בדף הראשון יש הפניה לרשיון של גנו, ובנוסף לזה בקשה לתרומות עבור ויקיפדיה וקישור לאתר התרומות של ויקמדיה. לי זה נראה סבבה מכל בחינה שהיא. גם אם קיימת בעיה, המסלול הנכון להערכתי הוא לפנות אליהם ולא ללכת לבית המשפט. בתי משפט זו הדרך היקרה, הלא יעילה והמעיקה שאפשר להעלות על הדעת. אני חושב שאם יש בעיה (שלא הצלחתי לשים לב אליה) הרי היא נוצרה בשגג בתום לב. רם-און E=MC^2 ֳֳNagasaki Japan Eran Tromer wrote: On 2005-12-31 20:54, Ram-on Agmon wrote: אני חושב שכל עוד מאייתים את השם של ווקפדיה נכון, הרי זה משובח. [...] אבל בעיני כל זה משני לעובדה שאחד האתרים הגדולים במדינה נותן לגיטמציה לפרויקט חופשי. [...] אבל אני חושב שהמאבק העיקרי הוא דעת הקהל. ככול שיותר אנשים יחשפו לאיכות של פרויקטים חופשיים, כך הלגיטמציה של רעיון החופש בעיני הציבור תלך ותגדל. אם הפרויקט של וואלה יחשוף עוד אנשים לאיכות המוצרים שהקוד הפתוח מנפיק, אז הרווח הוא נקי. הלגיטימציה והחשיפה מוגבלים כאן ליודעי דבר, שכן "ואללה!" לא מציינים את מקור המידע, וגם כותבים במפורש שהתוכן אינו חופשי (באחד משני הקישורים המשפטיים). ערן Sysop, Northern Castle BBS - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Wikipedia and Wallapedia
Hi Ram-on, The donation request is temporary - it will soon not be on wikipedia pages either. There is a discussion about this on the Wikipedia Miznon (in Hebrew): http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%95%D7%99%D7%A7%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%93%D7%99%D7%94:%D7%9E%D7%96%D7%A0%D7%95%D7%9F Everybody is invited. Orna. On Sun, 1 Jan 2006, Ram-on Agmon wrote: Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 00:18:15 +0200 From: Ram-on Agmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Eran Tromer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Orna Agmon [EMAIL PROTECTED], discussions@hamakor.org.il Subject: Re: Wikipedia and Wallapedia �� �¢�¨�. ���£ ��¨��©�� ��© ��¤� �� ��¨�©��� �©� �� �, ��� ����£ ��� ��§�©� ��×�¨����× �¢���¨ ���§��¤��� ��§��©��¨ ���×�¨ ��×�¨����× �©� ���§����. �� �� � �¨�� ����� ��� ���� � �©���. �� �� �§����× ��¢��, ������� �� ��� ���¢�¨��×� ��� ��¤� ��× ����� ��� ����× ����× ���©�¤�. ��×� ��©�¤� �� ���¨� ���§�¨�, ��� ��¢��� ����¢��§� �©��¤�©�¨ ���¢���× �¢� ���¢�×. �� � ���©� �©�� ��© ��¢�� (�©�� ��¦���×� ��©�� �� ����) ��¨� ��� � ��¦�¨� ��©�� ��×�� ��. �¨�-��� E=MC^2 �³�³Nagasaki Japan Eran Tromer wrote: On 2005-12-31 20:54, Ram-on Agmon wrote: �� � ���©� �©�� �¢�� �����×�� ��× ��©� �©� ���§�¤��� � ���, ��¨� �� ��©���. [...] ��� ��¢�� � �� �� ��©� � ��¢���� �©��� ���×�¨�� ������� ����� � � ��×� ������¦�� ��¤�¨���§� ���¤�©�. [...] ��� �� � ���©� �©�����§ ��¢��§�¨� ��� ��¢�× ��§��. ���� �©���×�¨ �� �©�� ���©�¤� ������× �©� �¤�¨���§��� ���¤�©���, �� �������¦�� �©� �¨�¢��� ����¤�© ��¢�� � ��¦����¨ �×�� ��×���. �� ��¤�¨���§� �©� ����� ���©��£ �¢�� �� �©�� ������× ����¦�¨�� �©��§�� ��¤�×�� �� �¤��§, �� ��¨��� ��� � �§�. ��������¦�� ����©��¤� ������� ��� �����¢� ���¨, �©�� �����! �� ��¦��� �� ��× ��§��¨ �����¢, ��� ���×��� ���¤��¨�© �©��×��� ��� � ���¤�©� (���� ��©� � ��§��©��¨�� ���©�¤����). �¢�¨� Sysop, Northern Castle BBS - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Orna. -- Orna Agmon http://ladypine.org/ http://haifux.org/~ladypine/ ICQ: 348759096 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Wikipedia and Wallapedia
הי, On 2006-01-01 00:18, Ram-on Agmon wrote: בדף הראשון יש הפניה לרשיון של גנו, ובנוסף לזה בקשה לתרומות עבור ויקיפדיה וקישור לאתר התרומות של ויקמדיה. זה לא מבהיר כלל כי מקור המידע הוא ויקיפדיה, לא מעלים את הקישור המשפטי השני אשר אוסר על הפצה, ולא משנה את העובדה ש-ואללה! מפרה את זכויות היוצרים של התורמים לויקיפדיה מהבחינות הנוספות שפרטתי קודם. לי זה נראה סבבה מכל בחינה שהיא. יפה, אם כך תוכל להעניק ל-ואללה! רשות להתשתמש כרצונם בערכים אשר אתה כתבת (לבדך). גם אם קיימת בעיה, המסלול הנכון להערכתי הוא לפנות אליהם ולא ללכת לבית המשפט. בתי משפט זו הדרך היקרה, הלא יעילה והמעיקה שאפשר להעלות על הדעת. כמובן, אבל פנייה כזו צריכה להבהיר שיש מאחוריה אנשים אמיתיים המחזיקים בזכויות יוצרים רלוונטיות. אני חושב שאם יש בעיה (שלא הצלחתי לשים לב אליה) הרי היא נוצרה בשגג בתום לב. כן, כולנו מדי פעם מעתיקים שלושים אלף ערכים אנציקלופדיים ושוכחים לתת קרדיט. לא נורא, קורה. ערן - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
