Re: [Bike Shed Colour] Which CMS Should we Use for iglu.org.il / www.iglu.org.il

2009-09-23 חוט Amit Aronovitch
On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 1:26 AM, Yaron Shahrabani sh.ya...@gmail.comwrote:

 Generally I think that we should choose the one that offers the most
 consistent support in Hebrew, a project that has the best Hebrew maintenance
 level


Why? I thought this site is supposed to be the *English* portal (for Hebrew,
you can always put stuff on hamakor site or the wiki and link back). Basic
Hebrew support might be enough.

I think an important criterion is what will be most convenient for the main
maintainer/s. The less time it takes for them to learn/configure the system,
the more they can spend on contents and appearance.

   AA
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Re: [Bike Shed Colour] Which CMS Should we Use for iglu.org.il / www.iglu.org.il

2009-09-23 חוט Shlomi Fish
On Tuesday 22 Sep 2009 01:26:23 Yaron Shahrabani wrote:
 Generally I think that we should choose the one that offers the most
 consistent support in Hebrew, a project that has the best Hebrew
  maintenance level

As Amit mentioned, www.iglu.org.il will primarily be in English - not in 
Hebrew. We need good Unicode support and some rudimentary support for Bidi 
(e.g: align=right/align=left/dir=rtl/dir=ltr/etc.) but that's it.

 From my basic knowledge:
 Wikia alongside the entire MediaWiki software and plugins is pretty good
  but not maintained periodically (I'm an active translator there)
 If there are more members from the Israeli community that would like to
 contribute to the MediaWiki software I think it would be much better,
 nowadays the only technical maintainer is Rotemliss and he is doing a great
 job but he doesn't have any time for it
 

Well, MediaWiki is technically a wiki and not a blog engine, and so not what 
I'm looking for. There's also MojoMojo, which is a powerful wiki written in 
Perl:

http://mojomojo.org/

They said something about making it suitable for use as a blog and I can ping 
them about it, or ask how to contribute. MojoMojo is made out of many 
components (over 200 CPAN modules last time I checked), each one with their 
extensive tests. On the other hand, MediaWiki is monolithic, and its test 
suite (which is far from having a good coverage) still didn't run successfully 
last time I checked. And MojoMojo has some advantages over MediaWiki (but also 
vice versa).

 I think the big dilemma is between Drupal and WordPress, I personally think
 that MovableType will not satisfy the community and authors needs

Why MovableType won't?

 
 Drupal, although somewhat maintained would be to heavy for the cause...
 WordPress, although pretty simple can be very powerful and cover almost all
 needs

Maybe, but I:

1. Will need to install many plugins.

2. Will need to remember to religiously keep it up-to-date, or hope that 
Debian Stable will. WordPress had many vulnerabilities in the past due to 
sloppy coding. sloppy is in quotes because it is far too easy to write 
such dangerous code in PHP. We can easily get hit by a worm or a specialised 
hacker or something, and I'd prefer to avoid it.

There was this worm:

http://onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2003/01/28/msworm.html

It affected only MS-SQL (which isn't supposed to be exposed to the outside 
Internet) and affected only several thousands of hosts, yet slowed down the 
global Internet considerably. There are several ordered of magnitude of 
publicly accessible WordPress deployments now - making them a very attractive 
target for do-badnicks.

So I'd prefer against relying on WordPress given its poor security record and 
a possible negligence of me in maintaining it.


 
 That's my personal perspective, anyone else?

More are welcome.

 Yaron Shahrabani - CTO
 The Campus
 Web: http://www.hacampus.org.il/
 Israeli Applicable Studies Institute
 200 Hativat Yiftah St., Karmiel, Israel
 Phone Number: +972 (4) 9988508
 

Regards,

Shlomi Fish

-- 
-
Shlomi Fish   http://www.shlomifish.org/
What does Zionism mean? - http://shlom.in/def-zionism

Chuck Norris read the entire English Wikipedia in 24 hours. Twice.
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[Bike Shed Colour] Which CMS Should we Use for iglu.org.il / www.iglu.org.il

2009-09-21 חוט Shlomi Fish
Hi all!

First of all let me apologise for putting a half-arsed web site on 
www.iglu.org.il. Now I still want to transform it into a representative news-
site/blog in English for the Israeli FOSS community (of which I'm not aware of 
any, except personal ones ). This would mean that several people will have to 
cooperate on it, given posting privileges, etc.

I think something like WordPress or Movable Type ( 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movable_Type ) would be good enough, but 
something fancier like Drupal may be better. It probably needs to be in the 
Debian repositories for easy management, but I'm not an admin.

So what are our options: (let the bike shed colour war begin)

1. WordPress - lots and lots of security holes, too basic functionality by 
default; requires a bootload of plugins to convert into a usable state which 
many bloggers won't install; and has lots of bugs - it already ate some of my 
comments and refused to let me post them again, and the blog owners did not 
know what to do about it.

I think I'll pass.

2. Movable Type: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movable_Type - open source and 
GPLed and written in more secure Perl than WordPress' PHP. Historically was a 
blog system of choice for small-time bloggers and WordPress gained ground due 
to the fact that MT was not free at first.

Has fewer usable skins than WordPress, but one can always hack a WordPress 
skin into shape or customise an existing skin.

When I tried it, it left many world-writable (777 permed) files on my hard-
drive, but there may be some way to avoid it. 

3. Joomla - Drupal is considered better.

4. Drupal - may be an overkill here, does not maintain backwards compatibility 
between major versions (and only has minor versions for bug-fixes), and many 
important plugins do not work with the newest versions.

5. Naturally, there are many others:

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_content_management_systems

* http://cms.wikia.com/ (my link)

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weblog_software

And some other people and I started our own, which is not really ready for 
prime time, yet:

https://www.ohloh.net/p/catable

Anyway, if you can think of something better, please let me know. That or have 
any comments to the above.

Regards,

Shlomi Fish

-- 
-
Shlomi Fish   http://www.shlomifish.org/
The Case for File Swapping - http://shlom.in/file-swap

Chuck Norris read the entire English Wikipedia in 24 hours. Twice.
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Re: [Bike Shed Colour] Which CMS Should we Use for iglu.org.il / www.iglu.org.il

2009-09-21 חוט Yaron Shahrabani
Generally I think that we should choose the one that offers the most
consistent support in Hebrew, a project that has the best Hebrew maintenance
level
From my basic knowledge:
Wikia alongside the entire MediaWiki software and plugins is pretty good but
not maintained periodically (I'm an active translator there)
If there are more members from the Israeli community that would like to
contribute to the MediaWiki software I think it would be much better,
nowadays the only technical maintainer is Rotemliss and he is doing a great
job but he doesn't have any time for it

I think the big dilemma is between Drupal and WordPress, I personally think
that MovableType will not satisfy the community and authors needs

Drupal, although somewhat maintained would be to heavy for the cause...
WordPress, although pretty simple can be very powerful and cover almost all
needs

That's my personal perspective, anyone else?
Yaron Shahrabani - CTO
The Campus
Web: http://www.hacampus.org.il/
Israeli Applicable Studies Institute
200 Hativat Yiftah St., Karmiel, Israel
Phone Number: +972 (4) 9988508


On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 12:14 AM, Shlomi Fish shlo...@iglu.org.il wrote:

 Hi all!

 First of all let me apologise for putting a half-arsed web site on
 www.iglu.org.il. Now I still want to transform it into a representative
 news-
 site/blog in English for the Israeli FOSS community (of which I'm not aware
 of
 any, except personal ones ). This would mean that several people will have
 to
 cooperate on it, given posting privileges, etc.

 I think something like WordPress or Movable Type (
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movable_Type ) would be good enough, but
 something fancier like Drupal may be better. It probably needs to be in the
 Debian repositories for easy management, but I'm not an admin.

 So what are our options: (let the bike shed colour war begin)

 1. WordPress - lots and lots of security holes, too basic functionality by
 default; requires a bootload of plugins to convert into a usable state
 which
 many bloggers won't install; and has lots of bugs - it already ate some of
 my
 comments and refused to let me post them again, and the blog owners did not
 know what to do about it.

 I think I'll pass.

 2. Movable Type: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movable_Type - open source
 and
 GPLed and written in more secure Perl than WordPress' PHP. Historically was
 a
 blog system of choice for small-time bloggers and WordPress gained ground
 due
 to the fact that MT was not free at first.

 Has fewer usable skins than WordPress, but one can always hack a WordPress
 skin into shape or customise an existing skin.

 When I tried it, it left many world-writable (777 permed) files on my hard-
 drive, but there may be some way to avoid it.

 3. Joomla - Drupal is considered better.

 4. Drupal - may be an overkill here, does not maintain backwards
 compatibility
 between major versions (and only has minor versions for bug-fixes), and
 many
 important plugins do not work with the newest versions.

 5. Naturally, there are many others:

 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_content_management_systems

 * http://cms.wikia.com/ (my link)

 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weblog_software

 And some other people and I started our own, which is not really ready for
 prime time, yet:

 https://www.ohloh.net/p/catable

 Anyway, if you can think of something better, please let me know. That or
 have
 any comments to the above.

 Regards,

Shlomi Fish

 --
 -
 Shlomi Fish   http://www.shlomifish.org/
 The Case for File Swapping - http://shlom.in/file-swap

 Chuck Norris read the entire English Wikipedia in 24 hours. Twice.
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 Discussions mailing list
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