Re: [Distutils] PEP 517: Open questions around artifact export directories

On 13 June 2017 at 08:55, Nathaniel Smith wrote: > On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 3:34 PM, Paul Moore wrote: >> But honestly, I think we're at the point where someone just needs to >> make a decision - there's very little compelling evidence either way. > > I was the original PEP author, but Thomas has

Re: [Distutils] PEP 517: Open questions around artifact export directories

On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 4:41 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: > > On Jun 12, 2017, at 7:18 PM, Nathaniel Smith wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: > >> >> On Jun 12, 2017, at 6:36 PM, Nathaniel Smith wrote >> >> Another point is that tools that you might have in your build

Re: [Distutils] PEP 517: Open questions around artifact export directories

> On Jun 12, 2017, at 7:18 PM, Nathaniel Smith wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Donald Stufft > wrote: > >> On Jun 12, 2017, at 6:36 PM, Nathaniel Smith > > wrote >> Another point is that tools that you might have in your build pipelin

Re: [Distutils] PEP 517: Open questions around artifact export directories

On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: > > On Jun 12, 2017, at 6:36 PM, Nathaniel Smith wrote > > Another point is that tools that you might have in your build pipeline > -- like auditwheel -- currently use wheel files as their interchange > format, so you might end up having to z

Re: [Distutils] PEP 517: Open questions around artifact export directories

On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 3:34 PM, Paul Moore wrote: > But honestly, I think we're at the point where someone just needs to > make a decision - there's very little compelling evidence either way. I was the original PEP author, but Thomas has mostly taken it over at this point, so I'm not sure how m

Re: [Distutils] PEP 517: Open questions around artifact export directories

> On Jun 12, 2017, at 6:36 PM, Nathaniel Smith wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 1:57 PM, Thomas Kluyver wrote: >> On Mon, Jun 12, 2017, at 09:45 PM, Daniel Holth wrote: >> >> I think all my wheel generators except bdist_wheel build the zipfile >> directly. >> >> >> There is a certain appea

Re: [Distutils] PEP 517: Open questions around artifact export directories

> On Jun 12, 2017, at 6:34 PM, Paul Moore wrote: > > On 12 June 2017 at 21:57, Thomas Kluyver wrote: >> There is a certain appeal to using the zipped .whl file as the canonical >> format for all tools that produce or consume wheels, rather than defining a >> closely related but distinct 'unpack

Re: [Distutils] PEP 517: Open questions around artifact export directories

On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 1:57 PM, Thomas Kluyver wrote: > On Mon, Jun 12, 2017, at 09:45 PM, Daniel Holth wrote: > > I think all my wheel generators except bdist_wheel build the zipfile > directly. > > > There is a certain appeal to using the zipped .whl file as the canonical > format for all tools

Re: [Distutils] PEP 517: Open questions around artifact export directories

On 12 June 2017 at 21:57, Thomas Kluyver wrote: > There is a certain appeal to using the zipped .whl file as the canonical > format for all tools that produce or consume wheels, rather than defining a > closely related but distinct 'unpacked wheel' format. A directory and a zip > file do not have

Re: [Distutils] PEP 517: Open questions around artifact export directories

> On Jun 12, 2017, at 6:10 PM, Thomas Kluyver wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 12, 2017, at 10:23 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: >> because it allows the front ends more flexibility in how they use the wheels > > I don't get this? Why is it more flexible? I went into some detail here: https://mail.python.org

Re: [Distutils] PEP 517: Open questions around artifact export directories

On Mon, Jun 12, 2017, at 10:23 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: > because it allows the front ends more flexibility in how they use > the wheels I don't get this? Why is it more flexible? > and allows us to avoid doing work, making the process involved faster > for everyone. This is true so long as backen

Re: [Distutils] PEP 517: Open questions around artifact export directories

> On Jun 12, 2017, at 5:21 PM, Thomas Kluyver wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 12, 2017, at 10:09 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: >> It’s pretty hard to screw up zipping up a directory. > > If you want reproducible builds, it's very easy to screw up, and your > response doesn't inspire confidence that frontend

Re: [Distutils] PEP 517: Open questions around artifact export directories

On Mon, Jun 12, 2017, at 10:09 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: > It’s pretty hard to screw up zipping up a directory. If you want reproducible builds, it's very easy to screw up, and your response doesn't inspire confidence that frontends will do it carefully. But I see flit mainly as something you use d

Re: [Distutils] PEP 517: Open questions around artifact export directories

> On Jun 12, 2017, at 5:05 PM, Daniel Holth wrote: > > Yes, and I worry that certain front ends will generate the zipfile > incorrectly. Better to do it in the back end. It’s pretty hard to screw up zipping up a directory. — Donald Stufft ___ D

Re: [Distutils] PEP 517: Open questions around artifact export directories

Yes, and I worry that certain front ends will generate the zipfile incorrectly. Better to do it in the back end. On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 4:57 PM Thomas Kluyver wrote: > On Mon, Jun 12, 2017, at 09:45 PM, Daniel Holth wrote: > > I think all my wheel generators except bdist_wheel build the zipfile

Re: [Distutils] PEP 517: Open questions around artifact export directories

On Mon, Jun 12, 2017, at 09:45 PM, Daniel Holth wrote: > I think all my wheel generators except bdist_wheel build the zipfile > directly. There is a certain appeal to using the zipped .whl file as the canonical format for all tools that produce or consume wheels, rather than defining a closely rela

Re: [Distutils] PEP 517: Open questions around artifact export directories

On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 4:41 PM Donald Stufft wrote: > > On Jun 12, 2017, at 4:36 PM, Daniel Holth wrote: > > It's certainly easier to build a zipfile correctly than to build a > directory tree. Might even be faster if your filesystem is slow. Surely if > there are multiple *.dist-info it is an

Re: [Distutils] PEP 517: Open questions around artifact export directories

It's certainly easier to build a zipfile correctly than to build a directory tree. Might even be faster if your filesystem is slow. Surely if there are multiple *.dist-info it is an error? On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 4:15 PM Donald Stufft wrote: > On Jun 12, 2017, at 4:01 PM, Thomas Kluyver wrote:

Re: [Distutils] PEP 517: Open questions around artifact export directories

Once I thought it might be useful to define 'wheel internal manifest' (whim) format which would just be a list or mapping that looks like [('category', source path or filelike, destination path), ... ], since that is basically what wheel is doing, putting paths in categories. Then you get the data

Re: [Distutils] PEP 517: Open questions around artifact export directories

> On Jun 12, 2017, at 4:36 PM, Daniel Holth wrote: > > It's certainly easier to build a zipfile correctly than to build a directory > tree. Might even be faster if your filesystem is slow. Surely if there are > multiple *.dist-info it is an error? > Sure, but it’s an error that we currently

Re: [Distutils] PEP 517: Open questions around artifact export directories

> On Jun 12, 2017, at 4:01 PM, Thomas Kluyver wrote: > > On Sat, Jun 10, 2017, at 06:14 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: >> Thomas - I agree with Donald's reasoning here, so would you mind >> updating the PEP accordingly? > > I've done so here: > https://github.com/python/peps/pull/290 > > There are st

Re: [Distutils] PEP 517: Open questions around artifact export directories

On Sat, Jun 10, 2017, at 06:14 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > Thomas - I agree with Donald's reasoning here, so would you mind > updating the PEP accordingly? I've done so here: https://github.com/python/peps/pull/290 There are still a couple of questions on which I wasn't quite sure what the consensu