Re: [Distutils] ANNOUNCE: Sunsetting of uploading to the legacy PyPI/TestPyPI

2017-06-24 Thread Thomas Kluyver 
For reference, I switched the default upload server for flit in version
0.11.

On Sat, Jun 24, 2017, at 08:45 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On 24 June 2017 at 15:24, Nick Coghlan  wrote:
> > https://packaging.python.org/guides/tool-recommendations/ is missing a
> > section on "Publishing platform" that explains the migration that is
> > currently in progress and covers what pypi.org currently handles
> > better than pypi.python.org (publishing), which should still use
> > pypi.python.org (downloading due to server bandwidth availability,
> > package management UI), and those where it doesn't matter much which
> > you use (browsing).
> 
> The new "Publishing Platform Migration" section is now live:
> https://packaging.python.org/guides/tool-recommendations/#publishing-platform-migration
> 
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> 
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Re: [Distutils] ANNOUNCE: Sunsetting of uploading to the legacy PyPI/TestPyPI

2017-06-24 Thread Nick Coghlan 
On 24 June 2017 at 15:24, Nick Coghlan  wrote:
> https://packaging.python.org/guides/tool-recommendations/ is missing a
> section on "Publishing platform" that explains the migration that is
> currently in progress and covers what pypi.org currently handles
> better than pypi.python.org (publishing), which should still use
> pypi.python.org (downloading due to server bandwidth availability,
> package management UI), and those where it doesn't matter much which
> you use (browsing).

The new "Publishing Platform Migration" section is now live:
https://packaging.python.org/guides/tool-recommendations/#publishing-platform-migration

Cheers,
Nick.

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Re: [Distutils] Finishing up PEP 517

2017-06-24 Thread Thomas Kluyver 
I have prepared a PR against the PEP adding get_build_sdist_requires ,
and renaming a couple of the other hooks for clarity
(get_build_wheel_requires, prepare_build_wheel_files):

https://github.com/python/peps/pull/297
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Re: [Distutils] Can u provide metadata about the PyPI

2017-06-24 Thread Matt Joyce 
https://kirankoduru.github.io/python/pypi-stats.html

this may be relevant to your interests.  some of the pypi info is available
on google big table.

On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 5:02 AM, Priya Lakshmi 
wrote:

> Respected Python expert
>
> I just want a help. Can u provide us the metadata available about the
> modules in PyPI giant database. For example, we want the number of packages
> available, the number of downloads for each package, etc
> So we can think of doing some good maintenance work.
>
> thank you.
> G Priyalakshmi
> Assistant Professor (Selection Grade)
> Department of Applied Mathematics and Computational Sciences
> PSG College of Technology
> Coimbatore
>
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[Distutils] Provide separate development and documentation URLs in PyPI metadata?

2017-06-24 Thread Brett Cannon 
When you go to PyPI.org for a project you will find a link to the
"homepage". Now for some projects that's their development site, e.g.
GitHub URL. For others it's their documentation site, e.g. Read the Docs.
And not all projects link to both from their PyPI page (e.g. yesterday I
noticed flit didn't directly link to its doc site, although Thomas fixed
this when I pointed it out).

So my question/idea is if it would make sense to have separate, explicit
development and documentation URLs in the PyPI metadata? For me that would
make a project's PyPI page a true homepage as I would know that no matter
what I could find where it's developed or where the docs are by going to
PyPI. This compares to now where either I gamble and go to PyPI in hopes
the developer provided the link there or hope I craft the right search on
Google (which based on my search yesterday for [Sphinx makefile] shows I
don't always succeed at).

Anyway, just an idea I had based on my flit experience yesterday plus a
tweet sent to me. (And if PyPI already supports this somehow then Thomas
should brace for the feature request from me .)
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Re: [Distutils] ANNOUNCE: Sunsetting of uploading to the legacy PyPI/TestPyPI

2017-06-24 Thread Ben Finney 
Randy Syring  writes:

> […] would it hurt to have an "provisional" area to the key projects
> list that makes people aware of the projects without "blessing" them
> as Key Projects.

It might hurt, yes. I am already quite confused by what is meant to be
done in the Brave New World described in this thread.

Pointing to a document that gives a set of tools is helpful – now I have
only the confusion of figuring out whether all my development and
deployment environments can use those – but that document becomes *less*
useful as you add more decisions I need to make.

> The whole point of that section of the guide is to raise awareness,
> yes?

That describes the purpose of an announcement like this. I'm now aware
of the change that's looming.

On the conitrary, the point of the section of the guide, for a user like
me, is to *simplify* the actions I need to take to survive the
transition.

Adding more options to decide between, however well-intentioned, will
work against that purpose.

-- 
 \   “You could augment an earwig to the point where it understood |
  `\ nuclear physics, but it would still be a very stupid thing to |
_o__)  do!” —The Doctor, _The Two Doctors_ |
Ben Finney

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Re: [Distutils] Provide separate development and documentation URLs in PyPI metadata?

2017-06-24 Thread Donald Stufft 
PyPI supports arbitrary key => URL mappings called project urls. The best way 
to implement this is probably to expose that feature with maybe  some 
recommended keys to use (to avoid docs vs documentation fracture etc). As far 
as I know disutils2 was the only thing to ever support them. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 24, 2017, at 1:34 PM, Brett Cannon  wrote:
> 
> When you go to PyPI.org for a project you will find a link to the "homepage". 
> Now for some projects that's their development site, e.g. GitHub URL. For 
> others it's their documentation site, e.g. Read the Docs. And not all 
> projects link to both from their PyPI page (e.g. yesterday I noticed flit 
> didn't directly link to its doc site, although Thomas fixed this when I 
> pointed it out).
> 
> So my question/idea is if it would make sense to have separate, explicit 
> development and documentation URLs in the PyPI metadata? For me that would 
> make a project's PyPI page a true homepage as I would know that no matter 
> what I could find where it's developed or where the docs are by going to 
> PyPI. This compares to now where either I gamble and go to PyPI in hopes the 
> developer provided the link there or hope I craft the right search on Google 
> (which based on my search yesterday for [Sphinx makefile] shows I don't 
> always succeed at).
> 
> Anyway, just an idea I had based on my flit experience yesterday plus a tweet 
> sent to me. (And if PyPI already supports this somehow then Thomas should 
> brace for the feature request from me .)
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Re: [Distutils] Provide separate development and documentation URLs in PyPI metadata?

2017-06-24 Thread Thomas Kluyver 
On Sat, Jun 24, 2017, at 06:34 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
> Anyway, just an idea I had based on my flit experience yesterday plus
> a tweet sent to me. (And if PyPI already supports this somehow then
> Thomas should brace for the feature request from me .)
This prompted me to go and look at the metadata PEPs. I thought the URL
fields were only 'Home-Page' and 'Download-URL', but in fact PEP 345
added a multi-use 'Project-URL' field:
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0345/#project-url-multiple-use

I quite like this idea - rather than prescribing a couple of specific
kinds of URL, it lets the project author list as many as make sense.
Perhaps we should recommend a set of common labels for URLs in this
field, e.g. 'Documentation', 'Bug tracker', 'Source repository'.
This does leave open the question of which one to put in the mandatory
'Home-Page' field (I usually use the address of the repo), and whether
to duplicate it in a 'Project-URL'.
Thomas
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Re: [Distutils] ANNOUNCE: Sunsetting of uploading to the legacy PyPI/TestPyPI

2017-06-24 Thread Jakub Wilk 

* Donald Stufft , 2017-06-23, 10:21:
Where can we find the exact versions of each that default to ‘pypi.org’ for 
uploads?


Umm. Twine 1.8.0, Python 3.4.6, 3.5.3, 3.6.0, Not sure on 2.7,


$ git tag --contains=7127b62702bd50bf44138e6f57334887cbcb5ca8
v2.7.13rc1
v2.7.13

--
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Re: [Distutils] Provide separate development and documentation URLs in PyPI metadata?

2017-06-24 Thread Donald Stufft 
It's only kind of mandatory. The spec says it is but nothing fails IIRC if you 
omit it. Perhaps we should just deprecate it and move everything to project 
urls. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 24, 2017, at 1:48 PM, Thomas Kluyver  wrote:
> 
> This does leave open the question of which one to put in the mandatory 
> 'Home-Page' field (I usually use the address of the repo), and whether to 
> duplicate it in a 'Project-URL'.

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Re: [Distutils] Provide separate development and documentation URLs in PyPI metadata?

2017-06-24 Thread Brett Cannon 
On Sat, Jun 24, 2017, 10:49 Thomas Kluyver,  wrote:

> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017, at 06:34 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
>
> Anyway, just an idea I had based on my flit experience yesterday plus a
> tweet sent to me. (And if PyPI already supports this somehow then Thomas
> should brace for the feature request from me .)
>
>
> This prompted me to go and look at the metadata PEPs. I thought the URL
> fields were only 'Home-Page' and 'Download-URL', but in fact PEP 345 added
> a multi-use 'Project-URL' field:
>
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0345/#project-url-multiple-use
>
> I quite like this idea - rather than prescribing a couple of specific
> kinds of URL, it lets the project author list as many as make sense.
> Perhaps we should recommend a set of common labels for URLs in this field,
> e.g. 'Documentation', 'Bug tracker', 'Source repository'.
>

In flit's case it could have some reasonable set of defaults supported in
the metadata section and then have a more general "URLs" section that's
more free-form.

-brett


> This does leave open the question of which one to put in the mandatory
> 'Home-Page' field (I usually use the address of the repo), and whether to
> duplicate it in a 'Project-URL'.
>
> Thomas
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Re: [Distutils] Provide separate development and documentation URLs in PyPI metadata?

2017-06-24 Thread Brett Cannon 
On Sat, Jun 24, 2017, 10:51 Donald Stufft,  wrote:

> It's only kind of mandatory. The spec says it is but nothing fails IIRC if
> you omit it. Perhaps we should just deprecate it and move everything to
> project urls.
>

That sounds reasonable toe if the flexible, general case is going to be
supported.

-Brett


> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jun 24, 2017, at 1:48 PM, Thomas Kluyver 
> wrote:
> >
> > This does leave open the question of which one to put in the mandatory
> 'Home-Page' field (I usually use the address of the repo), and whether to
> duplicate it in a 'Project-URL'.
>
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Re: [Distutils] Provide separate development and documentation URLs in PyPI metadata?

2017-06-24 Thread Nick Coghlan 
On 25 June 2017 at 03:51, Donald Stufft  wrote:
> It's only kind of mandatory. The spec says it is but nothing fails IIRC if 
> you omit it. Perhaps we should just deprecate it and move everything to 
> project urls.

That's the direction I was going in PEP 426/459:
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0459/#project-urls

The two missing pieces I now see would be recommended tags for
"Participate" and "Funding" URLs.

I'd favour "Participate" over any variant of "Contribute", as without
context, "Contribute" makes me think of financial support in the
crowdfunding/tip jar sense.

"Funding" is general enough to be suitable for crowdfunding/tip jar
links, freelancing/contracting links, and links to employer/sponsor
open source info pages.

Cheers,
Nick.

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Re: [Distutils] ANNOUNCE: Sunsetting of uploading to the legacy PyPI/TestPyPI

2017-06-24 Thread Nick Coghlan 
On 25 June 2017 at 01:18, Randy Syring  wrote:
> For what it's worth, for the projects that are almost ready to recommend,
> but not quite there (like Flit per the discussion on issue 336), would it
> hurt to have an "provisional" area to the key projects list that makes
> people aware of the projects without "blessing" them as Key Projects.  The
> whole point of that section of the guide is to raise awareness, yes?  Well
> if something like Flit is almost ready, but pending for a small reason or
> two, why not publish it anyway with some kind of "provision" label or
> something and an explanation of why the project is important, but not quite
> yet ready?

The key projects list is already aimed more at folks wanting to dive
into the details of how PyPA and the Python packaging ecosystem
actually work in practice (e.g. packaging and distlib are both listed,
and those are really only relevant to folks writing their own
packaging related tools).

The "definitely relevant to end users" list is the one at
https://packaging.python.org/guides/tool-recommendations/ (and after
discussing the idea with Thomas, we're not going to add flit there
until after its 1.0 release)

Cheers,
Nick.

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[Distutils] Can u provide metadata about the PyPI

2017-06-24 Thread Priya Lakshmi 
Respected Python expert

I just want a help. Can u provide us the metadata available about the
modules in PyPI giant database. For example, we want the number of packages
available, the number of downloads for each package, etc
So we can think of doing some good maintenance work.

thank you.
G Priyalakshmi
Assistant Professor (Selection Grade)
Department of Applied Mathematics and Computational Sciences
PSG College of Technology
Coimbatore
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Re: [Distutils] Finishing up PEP 517

2017-06-24 Thread Thomas Kluyver 
Nick has merged that PR, and the updated PEP is visible here:

https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0517/

Hopefully we're nearing a consensus on this now. If you're interested,
please do have a read through the latest version.

Thomas

On Sat, Jun 24, 2017, at 02:44 PM, Thomas Kluyver wrote:
> I have prepared a PR against the PEP adding get_build_sdist_requires ,
> and renaming a couple of the other hooks for clarity
> (get_build_wheel_requires, prepare_build_wheel_files):
> 
> https://github.com/python/peps/pull/297
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Re: [Distutils] ANNOUNCE: Sunsetting of uploading to the legacy PyPI/TestPyPI

2017-06-24 Thread Randy Syring 
For what it's worth, for the projects that are almost ready to 
recommend, but not quite there (like Flit per the discussion on issue 
336), would it hurt to have an "provisional" area to the key projects 
list that makes people aware of the projects without "blessing" them as 
Key Projects.  The whole point of that section of the guide is to raise 
awareness, yes?  Well if something like Flit is almost ready, but 
pending for a small reason or two, why not publish it anyway with some 
kind of "provision" label or something and an explanation of why the 
project is important, but not quite yet ready?


"Provisional" may not be the best term, couldn't think of a better term 
at the moment.


Just my $0.02.

*Randy Syring*
Husband | Father | Redeemed Sinner

/"For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world
and forfeit his soul?" (Mark 8:36 ESV)/

On 06/24/2017 09:15 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:

On 24 June 2017 at 18:56, Thomas Kluyver  wrote:

For reference, I switched the default upload server for flit in version
0.11.

Oh, I'd also missed that 0.11 published sdists now.

Given that, I think we should start recommending flit for new pure
Python projects (the lack of sdists was the only thing previously
making me hesitant about that), and then add it to the PyPI upload
migration list as well.

It's also missing an entry in the Key Projects list:
https://packaging.python.org/key_projects/

I've filed an issue to discuss that here:
https://github.com/pypa/python-packaging-user-guide/issues/336

We should probably add enscons to the Key Projects list as well, since
that allows folks the option of using a full pip-installable C/C++
build system as an alternative to setuptools/distutils, so I also
filed an issue to discuss that:
https://github.com/pypa/python-packaging-user-guide/issues/337

Cheers,
Nick.



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Re: [Distutils] ANNOUNCE: Sunsetting of uploading to the legacy PyPI/TestPyPI

2017-06-24 Thread Nick Coghlan 
On 24 June 2017 at 18:56, Thomas Kluyver  wrote:
> For reference, I switched the default upload server for flit in version
> 0.11.

Oh, I'd also missed that 0.11 published sdists now.

Given that, I think we should start recommending flit for new pure
Python projects (the lack of sdists was the only thing previously
making me hesitant about that), and then add it to the PyPI upload
migration list as well.

It's also missing an entry in the Key Projects list:
https://packaging.python.org/key_projects/

I've filed an issue to discuss that here:
https://github.com/pypa/python-packaging-user-guide/issues/336

We should probably add enscons to the Key Projects list as well, since
that allows folks the option of using a full pip-installable C/C++
build system as an alternative to setuptools/distutils, so I also
filed an issue to discuss that:
https://github.com/pypa/python-packaging-user-guide/issues/337

Cheers,
Nick.

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