Stanley A. Klein skl...@cpcug.org wrote:
Windows and Mac are fundamentally single user systems that have added
capabilities for multiple users and are intended to be used with
proprietary software. Those considerations lead to minimal dependencies
among packages (each proprietary provider
On Mon, 14 Apr 2008, Greg Ewing wrote:
John J Lee wrote:
If you have a network connection, about the only reason for not wanting an
app to be installed is that it has changed the behaviour of your system
somehow, just by being in the installed state.
If you have a continuous high-speed
On Sun, 13 Apr 2008, Greg Ewing wrote:
John J Lee wrote:
It allows you to think about uninstallation as delete the app == delete
the file
But 0install doesn't do that, as far as I can tell -- it
still keeps the data in some mysterious form and location
known only to itself, and requires
John J Lee wrote:
If you have a network connection, about the only reason for not wanting
an app to be installed is that it has changed the behaviour of your
system somehow, just by being in the installed state.
If you have a continuous high-speed network connection and
aren't concerned
On Sat, 12 Apr 2008, Greg Ewing wrote:
John J Lee wrote:
I keep hoping that someday Linux will support something
like MacOSX application bundles and frameworks,
Not the same, but something like:
http://0install.net/
That looks interesting, but I'm not sure I'd quite
call it something
John J Lee wrote:
It allows you to think about uninstallation as delete the app ==
delete the file
But 0install doesn't do that, as far as I can tell -- it
still keeps the data in some mysterious form and location
known only to itself, and requires you to use special tools
to install/remove
John J Lee wrote:
I keep hoping that someday Linux will support something
like MacOSX application bundles and frameworks,
Not the same, but something like:
http://0install.net/
That looks interesting, but I'm not sure I'd quite
call it something like. It looks like another case
of adding
On Wed, April 9, 2008 10:05 pm, Greg Ewing [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:59:39 +1200
From: Greg Ewing [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Distutils] how to easily consume just the parts of eggs
that are good for you
To: distutils-sig@python.org
Paul
On Thu, April 10, 2008 10:47 am, Paul Moore wrote:
On 10/04/2008, Stanley A. Klein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In summary, Python is being used on systems that have very different
underlying OS use cases. To some extent, the natural use case for
Python
is closest to that of Linux/Unix.
At 03:48 PM 4/10/2008 -0500, Dave Peterson wrote:
Stanley A. Klein wrote:
On Wed, 2008-04-09 at 18:17 -0500, Dave Peterson wrote:
I think I can sum up any further points by simply asking: Should it
be safe to assume I can distribute my application via eggs /
easy_install just because it is written
Phillip J. Eby wrote:
At 03:48 PM 4/10/2008 -0500, Dave Peterson wrote:
Stanley A. Klein wrote:
On Wed, 2008-04-09 at 18:17 -0500, Dave Peterson wrote:
I think I can sum up any further points by simply asking: Should it
be safe to assume I can distribute my application via eggs /
On Wed, Apr 09, 2008 at 11:37:07AM +1000, Ben Finney wrote:
zooko [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I am skeptical that prorgammers are going to be willing to use a new
database format. They already have a database -- their filesystem --
and they already have the tools to control it -- mv, rm, and
On Wed, Apr 09, 2008 at 12:41:32AM -0400, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
The way to achieve a database for Python would be to provide tools for
conversion of eggs to rpms and debs,
Such tools already exist, although the conversion takes place from
source distributions rather than egg distributions.
At 10:00 AM 4/9/2008 +0200, Gael Varoquaux wrote:
On Wed, Apr 09, 2008 at 12:41:32AM -0400, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
The way to achieve a database for Python would be to provide tools for
conversion of eggs to rpms and debs,
Such tools already exist, although the conversion takes place from
On Wed, April 9, 2008 12:41 am, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
At 10:49 PM 4/8/2008 -0400, Stanley A. Klein wrote:
On Tue, April 8, 2008 9:37 pm, Ben Finney
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 11:37:07 +1000
From: Ben Finney [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Distutils] how to easily
On 09/04/2008, Stanley A. Klein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
IMHO, the main system without a package manager is Windows. A reasonable
way to deal with Windows would be to create a package manager for it that
could be used by Python and anyone else who wanted to use it. The package
manager
All my development is done on Linux. I use Windows very minimally (such
as for tax preparation) and unless forced to do so for specific
circumstances (such as submittal to grants.gov) do not expose Windows to
the Internet.
In the future there may possibly arise a need for us to port some
At 11:52 AM 4/9/2008 -0400, Stanley A. Klein wrote:
However, are you implying that the installation information for Python egg
packages accesses and coordinates with the rpm database?
Yes, when the information isn't stripped out. Try a more recent Fedora.
IMHO, the main system without a
On Wed, April 9, 2008 3:19 pm, Gael Varoquaux wrote:
On Wed, Apr 09, 2008 at 02:26:31PM -0400, Stanley A. Klein wrote:
The rpm and deb package managers (and their yum and other higher level
dependency managers) do a lot of things:
1. They install packages and maintain databases of what
On Wed, Apr 09, 2008 at 02:26:31PM -0400, Stanley A. Klein wrote:
I don't know what Windows add/remove
programs function does, but all it might do is to run the executable to
install packages and record the installation (as was previously done by
third party programs) to facilitate clean
On Wed, April 9, 2008 3:40 pm, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
At 11:52 AM 4/9/2008 -0400, Stanley A. Klein wrote:
However, are you implying that the installation information for Python
egg
packages accesses and coordinates with the rpm database?
Yes, when the information isn't stripped out. Try a more
On Wed, April 9, 2008 4:27 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 21:21:09 +0100
From: Floris Bruynooghe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Distutils] how to easily consume just the parts of eggs
thatare good for you
To: distutils-sig@python.org
On Wed, Apr
At 04:43 PM 4/9/2008 -0400, Stanley A. Klein wrote:
I don't understand what you mean by shared environments and development
environments.
I mean that in a shared or development environment, a system packager
isn't useful, since it expects things to live in *one* place, and
usually to have
On Apr 9, 2008, at 6:00 AM, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
By the way, if these tools work well, they are priceless!
I haven't had need to use any of them, so I don't really know.
They are easydeb [1] and stddeb [2]. The former appears to be
incomplete and unmaintained. The latter appears to be
On 09/04/2008, Stanley A. Klein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think you raise an interesting issue: What is a package manager?
My (very simplistic) answer is that it's whatever someone uses to
manage packages. What level of functionality it has is irrelevant, as
long as it suits an individual's
Stanley A. Klein [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
IMHO, the main system without a package manager is Windows.
AFAICT the MacOS platform also lacks in this area.
A reasonable way to deal with Windows would be to create a package
manager for it that could be used by Python and anyone else who
wanted
On 09/04/2008, Ben Finney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Stanley A. Klein [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
A reasonable way to deal with Windows would be to create a package
manager for it that could be used by Python and anyone else who
wanted to use it. [...] This is primarily a Windows problem, not
On Wed, Apr 09, 2008 at 11:46:19PM +0100, Paul Moore wrote:
I find this whole discussion hugely confusing, because a lot of people
are stating opinions about environments which it seems they don't use,
or know much about. I don't know how to avoid this, but it does make
it highly unlikely that
On Wed, Apr 09, 2008 at 11:52:08PM +0100, Paul Moore wrote:
And I would say that Windows doesn't have a problem. Are any Windows
users proposing building a package management system for Windows
(Python-specific or otherwise)? It's a genuine question - is this
something that Windows users are
At 12:51 AM 4/10/2008 +0200, Gael Varoquaux wrote:
On Wed, Apr 09, 2008 at 11:46:19PM +0100, Paul Moore wrote:
I find this whole discussion hugely confusing, because a lot of people
are stating opinions about environments which it seems they don't use,
or know much about. I don't know how to
On Wed, 2008-04-09 at 18:17 -0500, Dave Peterson wrote:
I think I can sum up any further points by simply asking: Should it
be safe to assume I can distribute my application via eggs /
easy_install just because it is written in Python?
I think that based on this discussion the bottom line
On Tue, April 8, 2008 9:37 pm, Ben Finney
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 11:37:07 +1000
From: Ben Finney [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Distutils] how to easily consume just the parts of eggs
thatare good for you
To: Distutils-Sig@Python.Org
zooko [EMAIL
At 10:49 PM 4/8/2008 -0400, Stanley A. Klein wrote:
On Tue, April 8, 2008 9:37 pm, Ben Finney
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 11:37:07 +1000
From: Ben Finney [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Distutils] how to easily consume just the parts of eggs
thatare good
Folks:
Here is a simple proposal: make the standard Python import
mechanism notice eggs on the PYTHONPATH and insert them (into the
*same* location) on the sys.path.
This eliminates the #1 problem with eggs -- that they don't easily
work when installing them into places other than your
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