Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-13 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 13 February 2018 at 20:07, Chris Jerdonek wrote: > On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:59 AM, Robin Becker wrote: >> I am a bit confused about the meaning of 'backfilling'. Does it mean that a >> particular manylinux will evolve in time so an early

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-13 Thread Robin Becker
On 13/02/2018 10:07, Chris Jerdonek wrote: On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:59 AM, Robin Becker wrote: I am a bit confused about the meaning of 'backfilling'. Does it mean that a particular manylinux will evolve in time so an early manylinux2010 wheel will differ from a later

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-13 Thread Chris Jerdonek
On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:59 AM, Robin Becker wrote: > I am a bit confused about the meaning of 'backfilling'. Does it mean that a > particular manylinux will evolve in time so an early manylinux2010 wheel > will differ from a later one? I think it just means that, say,

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-13 Thread Robin Becker
I am a bit confused about the meaning of 'backfilling'. Does it mean that a particular manylinux will evolve in time so an early manylinux2010 wheel will differ from a later one? -- Robin Becker ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-12 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 12 February 2018 at 07:34, Matthew Brett wrote: > On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 AM, Alex Walters wrote: >> "There is a tool that can make software run on a lot of different computers, >> but only if you build it for an ancient computer. The

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-11 Thread Matthew Brett
On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 AM, Alex Walters wrote: > Just out of curiosity, I did a little experiment. I explained this thread > to my mother. My mother is a wonderful woman, but she wouldn't know a byte > from a bite. I explained it as follows: > > "There is a tool

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-11 Thread Alex Walters
n > Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 7:15 AM > To: Mark Williams <m...@twistedmatrix.com> > Cc: Geoffrey Thomas <geo...@ldpreload.com>; DistUtils mailing list > <distutils-sig@python.org>; Mark Williams <m...@enotuniq.org> > Subject: Re: [Distutils] draft

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-11 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 10 February 2018 at 16:03, Mark Williams wrote: > On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 05:55:36PM +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote: >> By contrast, year-based CalVer maintains distro-neutrality, while also >> giving a good sense of the maximum age of compatible target platforms. >> (e.g.

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-09 Thread Mark Williams
On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 05:55:36PM +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote: > The CalVer idea first came up in the context of skipping ahead in the > numbering sequence to go straight to a baseline that supported ppc64le > and/or aarch64. Even 2014 would likely be too old for that, since > CentOS 7 didn't

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-09 Thread Mark Williams
On Mon, Feb 05, 2018 at 03:17:55PM -0600, Jonathan Helmus wrote: > On 02/03/2018 02:11 AM, Nathaniel Smith wrote: > > > Docker Images > > > - > > > > > > ``manylinux2`` Docker images based on CentOS 6.9 x86_64 and i686 are > > > provided for building binary ``linux`` wheels that can

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-09 Thread Mark Williams
On Mon, Feb 05, 2018 at 08:51:03PM -0800, Mark Williams wrote: > On Sat, Feb 03, 2018 at 12:11:51AM -0800, Nathaniel Smith wrote: > > > > We can and should use newer compiler versions than that, and probably > > upgrade them again over the course of the image's lifespan, so let's > > just drop the

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-07 Thread Mark Williams
On Wed, Feb 07, 2018 at 08:41:06PM +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > Hmm, that question prompted me to notice a flaw in the current wording > of > https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0571/#platform-detection-for-installers. > > The way that's currently worded suggests that >

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-07 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 7 February 2018 at 19:58, Robin Becker wrote: > On 07/02/2018 05:21, Alex Walters wrote: >> This is a really good point. Since pip is the main interface to packages >> for end users anyways, we can call it manylinux8675309 and it wouldn't >> really matter to users - the

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-07 Thread Robin Becker
On 07/02/2018 05:21, Alex Walters wrote: ... This is a really good point. Since pip is the main interface to packages for end users anyways, we can call it manylinux8675309 and it wouldn't really matter to users - the name only really matters to package maintainers, not users. And

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-06 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 7 February 2018 at 15:21, Alex Walters wrote: > This is a really good point. Since pip is the main interface to packages > for end users anyways, we can call it manylinux8675309 and it wouldn't > really matter to users - the name only really matters to package >

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-06 Thread Alex Walters
-Original Message- From: Alex Walters [mailto:tritium-l...@sdamon.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2018 12:21 AM To: 'Janzert' <janz...@janzert.com> Subject: RE: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2 > -Original Message- > From: Distutils-SIG [mailto:distutils-sig-bou

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-06 Thread Janzert
On 2/5/2018 16:01, Nick Coghlan wrote: Compare: - manylinux1 vs manylinux2 vs manylinux3 - manylinux2007 vs manylinux2010 vs manylinux2014 I'll leave this just as a data point (anecdote) from someone that isn't heavily involved with linux sysadmin or python packaging. Feel free to make of

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-06 Thread Joni Orponen
On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 10:01 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On 6 February 2018 at 00:35, Joni Orponen wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 2:51 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > >> > >> As an illustrative example, manylinux1 was essentially

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-06 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 6 February 2018 at 17:55, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On 6 February 2018 at 16:05, Mark Williams wrote: >> If I may, a quick question about procedure: do I continue to included >> updates to the PEP in my responses here? Or do I link to my branch on >>

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-05 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 6 February 2018 at 16:05, Mark Williams wrote: > As a counter point: presumably a `manylinux` standard that supports > those architectures will require a PEP, in which case the author(s) > will have read the preceding `manylinx` PEPs, either to actively > borrow as much

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-05 Thread Nathaniel Smith
On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 1:17 PM, Jonathan Helmus wrote: > Moving to GCC 5 and above will introduced the new libstd++ ABI. [1] The > manylinux2 standard need to define which ABI compiled libraries should be > compiled against as older version of libstdc++ will not support

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-05 Thread Mark Williams
On Mon, Feb 05, 2018 at 12:15:50PM +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > Thanks for this! > > Something we've discussed in the past is switching manylinux over to a > variant of CalVer, where the manylinux version number inherently > conveys the era of operating system compatibility that each variant is

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-05 Thread Mark Williams
On Sat, Feb 03, 2018 at 12:11:51AM -0800, Nathaniel Smith wrote: > > Huzzah! This is an amazing bit of work, and I'm glad you got that > weird email problem sorted out :-). Me too! I'd rather deal with Linux ABI fussiness than email any day of the week. > >ABI. *[Citation for UCS ABI

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-05 Thread Jonathan Helmus
On 02/03/2018 02:11 AM, Nathaniel Smith wrote: Docker Images - ``manylinux2`` Docker images based on CentOS 6.9 x86_64 and i686 are provided for building binary ``linux`` wheels that can reliably be converted to ``manylinux2`` wheels. [8]_ These images come with a full compiler

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-05 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 6 February 2018 at 00:38, Ivan Pozdeev wrote: > On 05.02.2018 16:51, Nick Coghlan wrote: >> Or, we can just put the year directly in the version number, so that >> publishers can go "I'm happy to target manylinux2010, because I'm fine >> with users of distros that are more

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-05 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 6 February 2018 at 00:35, Joni Orponen wrote: > On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 2:51 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: >> >> As an illustrative example, manylinux1 was essentially manylinux2007, >> and it's now running into problems precisely because that baseline is

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-05 Thread Thomas Kluyver
On Mon, Feb 5, 2018, at 2:38 PM, Ivan Pozdeev via Distutils-SIG wrote: > The point is, a year has negative informativity in this case. > > The very reasoning "compatible with most distributions released since > year " is flawed 'cuz it's vague and nonintuitive. Which is "most" > distributions?

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-05 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Distutils-SIG
On 05.02.2018 16:51, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 5 February 2018 at 18:03, Ivan Pozdeev via Distutils-SIG wrote: On 05.02.2018 5:15, Nick Coghlan wrote: The intended benefit of that is that it would allow folks to go ahead and propose newer manylinux variants that allow

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-05 Thread Joni Orponen
On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 2:51 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > As an illustrative example, manylinux1 was essentially manylinux2007, > and it's now running into problems precisely because that baseline is > more than a decade old. That's not obvious if all you know is the > sequential

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-05 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 5 February 2018 at 18:03, Ivan Pozdeev via Distutils-SIG wrote: > On 05.02.2018 5:15, Nick Coghlan wrote: >> The intended benefit of that is that it would allow folks to go ahead >> and propose newer manylinux variants that allow for ppc64le and >> aarch64 support as

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-05 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Distutils-SIG
On 05.02.2018 5:15, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 1 February 2018 at 10:01, Mark Williams wrote: Hi everyone! The manylinux1 platform tag has been tremendously useful, but unfortunately it's showing its age: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/distutils-sig/2017-April/030360.html

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-04 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 1 February 2018 at 10:01, Mark Williams wrote: > Hi everyone! > > The manylinux1 platform tag has been tremendously useful, but unfortunately > it's showing its age: > > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/distutils-sig/2017-April/030360.html >

Re: [Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-03 Thread Nathaniel Smith
On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 4:01 PM, Mark Williams wrote: > Hi everyone! > > The manylinux1 platform tag has been tremendously useful, but unfortunately > it's showing its age: > > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/distutils-sig/2017-April/030360.html >

[Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-02 Thread Mark Williams
Hi everyone! The manylinux1 platform tag has been tremendously useful, but unfortunately it's showing its age: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/distutils-sig/2017-April/030360.html https://mail.python.org/pipermail/wheel-builders/2016-December/000239.html Nathaniel identified a list of things

[Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-02 Thread Mark Williams
Hi everyone! The manylinux1 platform tag has been tremendously useful, but unfortunately it's showing its age: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/distutils-sig/2017-April/030360.html https://mail.python.org/pipermail/wheel-builders/2016-December/000239.html Nathaniel identified a list of things

[Distutils] draft PEP: manylinux2

2018-02-02 Thread Mark Williams
Hi everyone! The manylinux1 platform tag has been tremendously useful, but unfortunately it's showing its age: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/distutils-sig/2017-April/030360.html https://mail.python.org/pipermail/wheel-builders/2016-December/000239.html Nathaniel identified a list of things