Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-08-10 Thread Alex Hill
FWIW I agree with Florian: - Where the default is unsuitable for a project, it's easier to restrict the field's length in forms than to increase it in the User model. - It's hard to imagine a situation where a 100-character limit is suitable but a 150-character limit isn't. - I

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-08-10 Thread Florian Apolloner
On Wednesday, August 10, 2016 at 5:34:44 PM UTC+2, Tom Christie wrote: > > I'd always defer towards humanized limits, rather than technical limits, > so I'd suggest 100 chars seems like a decent cap. > Not trying to troll or derail, but can we please make it 150 chars? It is still kinda

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-08-10 Thread Raony Guimaraes Corrêa Do Carmo Lisboa Cardenas
Ok. I agree we can set for an increase to 100 characters :) Cheers _ Raony Guimarães Corrêa Do Carmo Lisboa Cardenas PhD in Bioinformatics email: raonyguimar...@gmail.com skype/hangouts: raonyguimaraes phone: +48 722 148 478

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-08-10 Thread Aymeric Augustin
> On 10 Aug 2016, at 17:34, Tom Christie wrote: > > I'd always defer towards humanized limits, rather than technical limits, so > I'd suggest 100 chars seems like a decent cap. Yes. Repeating my earlier message: > I’m -1 on basing the decision of “how long a last name

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-08-10 Thread Tom Christie
I'd always defer towards humanized limits, rather than technical limits, so I'd suggest 100 chars seems like a decent cap. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. To unsubscribe from this group

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-08-10 Thread Raony Guimaraes Corrêa Do Carmo Lisboa Cardenas
Hi, Now that this thread went silent for a few days, can we reach a consensus and try increase last_name to the maximum size available without breaking backward compatibility ? Please, lets make Django more available to the rest of the world. This is a small change with a huge benefit to

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-08-02 Thread Tim Allen
Our main database in my division contains about 150,000 users total - from across the world. Although the distribution is heavily weighted towards North America and Europe, we do have a fair amount of Asian schools, and one from Brazil. Many of these schools also have international students. I

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-08-02 Thread René Fleschenberg
Hi, > Anyway, it seems that this issue is bound to die in a bikeshedding fest, > so I’ll leave it there, with my apologies to Brazilian users who will > remain unable to log into Django-based websites :-( Please don't let this issue die because we cannot reach consensus between 60, 100, 192 and

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-08-02 Thread Raony Guimaraes Corrêa Do Carmo Lisboa Cardenas
Thank you Malcolm! Let's see if we can reach a consensus in a reasonable time. _ Raony Guimarães Corrêa Do Carmo Lisboa Cardenas PhD in Bioinformatics email: raonyguimar...@gmail.com skype/hangouts: raonyguimaraes phone: +48 722 148 478

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-08-02 Thread Michal Petrucha
On Tue, Aug 02, 2016 at 06:09:00PM +0300, Shai Berger wrote: > Well, there's one precedent that is quite pertinent here, and that > is AUTH_USER_MODEL. But a setting for the length of a field in a > built-in app is problematic because it would imply a migration in > that app, rather than user

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-08-02 Thread Shai Berger
Well, there's one precedent that is quite pertinent here, and that is AUTH_USER_MODEL. But a setting for the length of a field in a built-in app is problematic because it would imply a migration in that app, rather than user apps. In principle we could write the d.c.auth migration by hand to

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-08-02 Thread Aymeric Augustin
On 02 Aug 2016, at 14:23, James Pic wrote: > I understand it can sometimes be hard for you Indeed, some aspects of this discussion frustrate me and that showed in my answer. Please accept my apologies for the unwarranted aggressiveness. On an intellectual level, I

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-08-02 Thread Malcolm Box
I've opened ticket 26993 to track this - https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/26993#ticket On Friday, 29 July 2016 12:15:43 UTC+1, Raony Guimaraes Corrêa Do Carmo Lisboa Cardenas wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > For a long time I was having problems to login to djangopackages.com > using my

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-08-02 Thread Lee Trout
I thought about that before I posted. I can't remember seeing any settings that would also carry db consequences other than adding an app. (Or the db setting dict itself). On Tuesday, August 2, 2016, Malcolm Box wrote: > A setting seems like a dangerous option here, since

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-08-02 Thread Malcolm Box
A setting seems like a dangerous option here, since changing it would cause a DB migration to be required. It's not *that* hard for us to find a value and apply it. Any user that really wanted something different could create their own migration to change the default - but "leave it to the user"

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-08-02 Thread Lee Trout
I know there's always resistance to adding more settings but this seems like a candidate for a value in a setting with a sane default that a user could quickly and easily change. On Tuesday, August 2, 2016, James Pic wrote: > Thanks for your reply Aymeric. If I understand

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-08-02 Thread ludovic coues
Someone mentioned mysql not supporting nicely string of 255 unicode characters. 2016-08-02 13:42 GMT+02:00 Malcolm Box : > Hi Aymeric, > > I'm sorry that you feel this has devolved to a bikeshedding fest, that > certainly wasn't my intent, and I'd hate to see this issue die.

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-08-02 Thread Aymeric Augustin
Hello Malcolm, > On 02 Aug 2016, at 10:28, Malcolm Box wrote: > > Having read the W3C Q carefully, the relevant comment on field lengths is > "avoid limiting the field size for names in your database". Indeed. I chose to propose something else because I didn’t want the

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-08-02 Thread Raony Guimaraes Corrêa Do Carmo Lisboa Cardenas
Hi Malcolm, It seen everyone here agree 30 characters is not enough for last names and this should be changed. I also think 255 characters would cause less trouble in a sense, cause we wouldn't have to deal with this problem again until we decide to go full TextField. which is actually the

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-08-02 Thread Malcolm Box
On Monday, 1 August 2016 13:56:55 UTC+1, Aymeric Augustin wrote: > > > On 30 Jul 2016, at 23:15, Donald Stufft > wrote: > > > > See #6 of > https://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-names/ > > > I’m aware of this article. It's a

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-08-01 Thread Raony Guimaraes Corrêa Do Carmo Lisboa Cardenas
Dear all, I kind of agree with Aymeric, increasing last_name to max=60 characters would already be good enough for this proposal and should cover 99.99% of users without breaking backward compatibility. I support your idea of a built-in User model not based on first and last name. But that

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-08-01 Thread Aymeric Augustin
Hello James, > On 01 Aug 2016, at 15:03, James Pic wrote: > > Aymeric, it doesn't matter if tens of milions of names fit into your > model, it only takes one to have a issue that's going to require the > project developers to invest time in it. I’m not an adept of the

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-08-01 Thread Michael Manfre
I agree with Aymeric. Short of actual stats stating otherwise, I think we should use max_length=60 and accommodate most people on the planet out of the box without a non-trivial amount of time/effort. For those who want to go above an beyond for a handful of potential users, they can create a

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-08-01 Thread James Pic
Aymeric, it doesn't matter if tens of milions of names fit into your model, it only takes one to have a issue that's going to require the project developers to invest time in it. So I'm a bit lost about what's the most practical approach here. -- You received this message because you are

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-08-01 Thread Aymeric Augustin
> On 30 Jul 2016, at 23:15, Donald Stufft wrote: > > See #6 of > https://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-names/ I’m aware of this article. It's a entertaining read but, unlike the W3 Q mentioned earlier, it doesn’t contain actionable advice

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-07-31 Thread Curtis Maloney
As I watch this discussion I am reminded of a talk I saw a few years ago at PyConAU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_V4q0o-nKp4=PLs4CJRBY5F1KDIN6pv6daYWN_RnFOYvt0=33 -- Curtis On 01/08/16 09:34, James Pic wrote: On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 8:08 AM, Josh Smeaton wrote:

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-07-31 Thread James Pic
On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 8:08 AM, Josh Smeaton wrote: > > I think having a single name field is reasonable for the vast majority of > cases, but it fails where projects really do need to identify two names for > things like sorting or categorising. I'd be willing to

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-07-31 Thread Shai Berger
On Sunday 31 July 2016 00:15:57 Donald Stufft wrote: > > On Jul 30, 2016, at 4:40 PM, Aymeric Augustin > > wrote: > > > > I have trouble believing that a significant number of people are used to > > typing 100+ characters when inputting their name into a

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-07-30 Thread Tim Allen
+0 to extending the length, but the 255-character maximum in MySQL shouldn't be a concern since MySQL 5.0.3 (IIRC). I'm all for the ease of a length increase to the concern raised in the original post. While it would be nice to do more in the long term, that's a bigger discussion, as Aymeric

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-07-30 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Jul 30, 2016, at 4:40 PM, Aymeric Augustin > wrote: > > I have trouble believing that a significant number of people are used to > typing 100+ characters when inputting their name into a website — let alone > that a significant number of people have a

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-07-30 Thread Aymeric Augustin
Hello, > On 30 Jul 2016, at 10:52, Raony Guimaraes Corrêa Do Carmo Lisboa Cardenas > wrote: > > So I'm suggesting a change from 30 to 255 characters on last_name field, > which is the maximum possible without breaking backwards compatibility. I’m -1 on basing the

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-07-30 Thread Florian Apolloner
On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 3:25:35 PM UTC+2, Raony Guimaraes Corrêa Do Carmo Lisboa Cardenas wrote: > > So I'm suggesting a change from 30 to 255 characters on last_name field, > which is the maximum possible without breaking backwards compatibility. > Maybe on Django 3 we can propose a

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-07-30 Thread Raony Guimaraes Corrêa Do Carmo Lisboa Cardenas
Hello all, here are my thoughts after reading the discussion. @Erik You won on having the biggest name! Regarding your question about "how long is long enough", after checking other web frameworks such as rails

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-07-29 Thread James Pic
Indeed first and last name dont make sense en various culture. In the Memopol project for exampe where wé have a table of European Parliament representative we have all sorts of names including (The Earl Of) name suffix which is part of the reasons our first / last name system was completely

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-07-29 Thread Aymeric Augustin
Hello, I usually build my projects upon these recommendations, but the UX is awkward and the end result tends to be short_name = first_name and full_name = first_name + space + last_name. We could discuss the usefulness of providing an alternate user model that has short_name + full_name

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-07-29 Thread ludovic coues
The W3C have some recommandation on the question. https://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-personal-names 2016-07-29 17:47 GMT+02:00 Aymeric Augustin : > Hello, > > Indeed, Django’s default limit on last name length doesn’t work well for > Brazilians (at

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-07-29 Thread Aymeric Augustin
Hello, Indeed, Django’s default limit on last name length doesn’t work well for Brazilians (at least). Actually having a `first_name` and `last_name` field doesn’t work well in various cultures, including the US when you want a middle initial. Custom user models are the general answer to that

Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-07-29 Thread Erik Cederstrand
Hello Raony, I'm sure I'm not aware of all the implications of changing the field length, but the first question should be "how long is long enough"? In answering this question, this Quora question comes to mind: https://www.quora.com/Why-are-South-Indian-names-often-long Kind regards, Erik

Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

2016-07-29 Thread Raony Guimaraes Corrêa Do Carmo Lisboa Cardenas
Hello everyone, For a long time I was having problems to login to djangopackages.com using my github account (pydanny/djangopackages#338 ). After investigating I discovered the problem was because my surname is longer than 30 characters. I