Re: revisiting the Python version support policy

[Jason Johns]

In addition, with tools like https://github.com/pyenv/pyenv available that make 
changing the currently applicable python version in any given shell extremely 
easy, I feel pinning support to a specific operating system version, however 
stable, is not the optimal approach 

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Re: Fellow Reports - January 2019

[Tim Graham]

Week ending January 19, 2019

Triaged

---

https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/17904 - Custom permissions on proxy 
model no longer created (fixed)

https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30113 - Ignoring body with 
application/json payload causes HTTP 400 (duplicate)

https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30107 - Cached template loader's 
cache_key() method has unused dirs_prefix variable (fixed)

https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30118 - Add support for filter 
arguments in queryset.exists() and queryset.count() (wontfix)

Authored

--

https://github.com/django/django/pull/10864 - Fixed #30116 -- Dropped 
support for Python 3.5.

Reviewed/committed

--

https://github.com/django/django/pull/10840 - Refs #28478 -- Adjusted 
prevention of connections to disallowed databases.

https://github.com/django/django/pull/10764 - Refs #28643 -- Used database 
function compatibility mixins for aggregates.

https://github.com/django/django/pull/8981 - Fixed #9475 -- Allowed 
RelatedManager.add(), create(), etc. for m2m with a through model.

https://github.com/django/django/pull/10381 - Fixed #11154, #22270 -- Made 
proxy model permissions use correct content type.
https://github.com/django/django/pull/10171 - Fixed #20147 -- Added 
HttpRequest.headers.

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Re: revisiting the Python version support policy

[Ryan Hiebert]

I don't feel like my voice should have much weight, but I think that the
policy as written is better. Debian aims to be stable long term, and for us
to match Debian, especially when not in our LTS releases, seems excessive
to me.

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 9:56 AM Tim Graham  wrote:

> When deciding when to drop support for Python 2 in Django, there was
> consensus to adopt this Python version support policy [0]: "Typically, we
> will support a Python version up to and including the first Django LTS
> release whose security support ends after security support for that version
> of Python ends. For example, Python 3.3 security support ends September
> 2017 and Django 1.8 LTS security support ends April 2018. Therefore Django
> 1.8 is the last version to support Python 3.3."
>
> Since then, we didn't abide by this policy when dropping Python 3.4,
> mainly because Debian stable still used Python 3.4 at the time and Claude
> argued that some people like him would have difficulty contributing to
> Django if they had to install another version of Python [1].
>
> Based on the policy, it's time to drop support for Python 3.5 in the
> master branch (Django 3.0) -- with Django 2.2 LTS supported until April
> 2022 and Python 3.5 supported until September 2020). I created a ticket [2]
> and PR [3] for dropping support for Python 3.5 [2], however, Claude
> commented, "I'm not so enthusiast to drop Python 3.5 now (it is still the
> default version in Debian stable). Couldn't this be done in Django 3.1
> instead?"
>
> Are you in favor of amending the Python support version policy to account
> for the Python version in Debian stable?
>
> [0]
> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/faq/install/#what-python-version-can-i-use-with-django
> [1]
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/django-developers/4rbVKJYm8DI/TTh3i04pBQAJ
> [2] https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30116
> [3] https://github.com/django/django/pull/10864
>
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Re: Potential suspension of Channels development

[Andrew Godwin]

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 4:34 AM Michael Martinez <
writemichaelmarti...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Andrew
>
> To me, Websockets is the defining use case for using Django Channels. From
> a user POV, saying that Channels is focused on the wrong problem
> (websockets) is like saying Django is too focused on HTTP.
>
> When I have selected Channels (vs other tools), my rationale was not:
>
> "*I need a general purpose async platform and it would be great if it
> worked with Websockets, ZeromQ and played nice with Django...*"
> (therefore Django Channels vs Tornado vs ...)
>
>
> rather my rationale is more like:
>
> "*I need to build real time features with Websockets using Django..*"
> (therefore Django Channels).
>
>
>

Oh, I totally get that, and Channels does well at providing WebSockets -
the problem is that it's still an area with a lot less interest and also
one I personally have no use for at the moment. Those things combined mean
that WebSockets is not something I'm really interested in supporting for
free right now; I'd have to be paid to work on it (as I was with the
Mozilla grant for a lot of Channels' development).

Andrew

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revisiting the Python version support policy

[Tim Graham]

When deciding when to drop support for Python 2 in Django, there was 
consensus to adopt this Python version support policy [0]: "Typically, we 
will support a Python version up to and including the first Django LTS 
release whose security support ends after security support for that version 
of Python ends. For example, Python 3.3 security support ends September 
2017 and Django 1.8 LTS security support ends April 2018. Therefore Django 
1.8 is the last version to support Python 3.3."

Since then, we didn't abide by this policy when dropping Python 3.4, mainly 
because Debian stable still used Python 3.4 at the time and Claude argued 
that some people like him would have difficulty contributing to Django if 
they had to install another version of Python [1].

Based on the policy, it's time to drop support for Python 3.5 in the master 
branch (Django 3.0) -- with Django 2.2 LTS supported until April 2022 and 
Python 3.5 supported until September 2020). I created a ticket [2] and PR 
[3] for dropping support for Python 3.5 [2], however, Claude commented, 
"I'm not so enthusiast to drop Python 3.5 now (it is still the default 
version in Debian stable). Couldn't this be done in Django 3.1 instead?"

Are you in favor of amending the Python support version policy to account 
for the Python version in Debian stable?

[0] 
https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/faq/install/#what-python-version-can-i-use-with-django
[1] 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/django-developers/4rbVKJYm8DI/TTh3i04pBQAJ
[2] https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30116
[3] https://github.com/django/django/pull/10864

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Re: Fellow Reports -- January 2019

[Carlton Gibson]

Hi All 

Calendar Week 3 -- ending 20 January.


Released Django 2.2a1. 


Triaged:

https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30089 -- TestClient doesnt 
accept data with duplicate keys (SELECT multiple) (Accepted)
https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30115 -- inspectdb on SQLite crashes 
with TypeError: unhashable type: dict (Accepted)
https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30114 -- Strange ValidationError 
issue (Invalid)
https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30090 -- Cannot reverse MySQL DB 
migration when model has unique_together and one of the fields has 
db_index=True (needsinfo)
https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30098 -- Permit using packages 
(directories) in custom django-admin commands. (wontfix)
https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30104 -- Need filtering by Window 
expression (Invalid)
https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30095 -- System check error for 
tuples in model field choices (Accepted)



Reviewed:

https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30111 -- AppRegistryNotReady-Error 
when having contrib.postgres in INSTALLED_APPS
https://github.com/django/django/pull/10692 -- Refs #17198 -- Detected 
existing total ordering in admin changelist.
https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30102 -- Optimize the 
`page_not_found` view after #30070



Authored:

https://github.com/django/django/pull/10855 -- Refs #30102 -- Added comment 
on use of Template without placeholders in default page_not_found view.


Kind Regards,

Carlton

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Re: Messages without text in the messages framework

[Sebastian Lechner]

Alright, thanks for the clarification.  I've already asked this question 
on Stack Overflow and will now try the same on the django-users mailing 
list.


On 20/01/2019 18:39, Adam Johnson wrote:
This mailing list is for the development of Django itself, not for 
support using Django. Please use the django-users mailing list for 
that, or IRC #django on freenode, or a site like Stack Overflow.


On Sat, 19 Jan 2019 at 16:00, Sebastian Lechner > wrote:


Dear Django developer community,

often I would like to trigger a message to the user with the
message rendered dynamically in the client-side JS code. I use the
message framework's tags to differentiate between the different
messages in JS.

Usually, I will define the message's text on the client side as
well, making it unnecessary to define the message text in the
Django backend. My first idea was to set the message text
parameter to "None" or the empty string when calling add_message.

Unfortunately, it seems that this will lead to the message beging
discarded. Is there are another way to send a message without text
(but a number of tags) with the messages framework?

Best regards
Sebastian

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Re: Potential suspension of Channels development

[Michael Martinez]

Hi Andrew

RE:
 

>  I feel, is that is solves the wrong problem - it's focused on WebSockets, 
> which is a niche feature that a few people are happy we provide but most 
> people have no practical use for.
>

To me, Websockets is the defining use case for using Django Channels. From 
a user POV, saying that Channels is focused on the wrong problem 
(websockets) is like saying Django is too focused on HTTP.

When I have selected Channels (vs other tools), my rationale was not:

"*I need a general purpose async platform and it would be great if it 
worked with Websockets, ZeromQ and played nice with Django...*" (therefore 
Django Channels vs Tornado vs ...)


rather my rationale is more like: 

"*I need to build real time features with Websockets using Django..*" 
(therefore Django Channels).

 


On Sunday, January 20, 2019 at 5:27:39 PM UTC-6, Andrew Godwin wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 19, 2019 at 12:13 PM Carlton Gibson  > wrote:
>
>> Hey Andrew. 
>>
>> I've been thinking a lot about this. You clearly shouldn't be maintaining 
>> Channels single-handedly indefinitely. 
>>  
>> I know Channels started out separately, but, it's time to think about 
>> what, if anything of channels, is to be brought into core, or become THE 
>> WAY we do things or... Yes, we need more hands, but there's a bunch of 
>> people who can help out, and at least part of the problem is your out there 
>> in the wings by yourself (with not much visibility.) 
>>
>> Q: How does Channels fit into the "Django Async Roadmap"? 
>>
>> To the extent that it does, I think there's a case for asking the board 
>> and the DSF more widely to throw everything we've got behind making sure 
>> it's properly resourced. 
>>
>
> The main problem with Channels, I feel, is that is solves the wrong 
> problem - it's focused on WebSockets, which is a niche feature that a few 
> people are happy we provide but most people have no practical use for.
>
> Instead, I think Django should focus on a good async path for HTTP - 
> views, ORM, templates, and the like. This is what I want to get done if I 
> can get my time and energy back!
>
>
>> I presume you DON'T offer support on the issue tracker, and point people 
>> to other channels? I'd be happy to "straight-bat" obvious tickets away. 
>> (Michael's offer to recieve is valuable there.) 
>>
>
> I do try to do this - I wrote a standard page last year to help out with 
> batting away (https://channels.readthedocs.io/en/latest/support.html) - 
> but sometimes it's hard to triage the bug from the support request. Your 
> help there would be most appreciated, and yes, I should add Michael's offer 
> to that support page.
>  
>
>>
>> "...and weird WebSocket client bugs."
>>
>> Can I ask you to explain what you mean there? (Point to a ticket maybe.) 
>> What kind of query do you get? Is there a particular knack to working out 
>> if it's a valid bug or not? (Or is it apparent?)
>>
>
> I don't want to single anyone out, as it's not their fault, but bugs like 
> this: https://github.com/django/daphne/issues/244
>
> This person did the work and figured it out for the most part, but lots of 
> bugs that complex and confusing come in with just the first part of the 
> issue and I'm left wondering if it's their browser, their server, their 
> Python install or actually Channels.
>
> At some point, I wake up every morning to 5-6 emails from the various 
> projects and it overwhelms, as I'm sure you've encountered. Even the bugs 
> are nasty enough that I don't feel like fixing them once I've figured out 
> they're actually bugs.
>  
>
>>
>> Thanks for all you work here. Legend.  
>>
>
> And thank you for your response and help :)
>
> Andrew 
>

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Re: Potential suspension of Channels development

[Guilhem Saurel]

Hi Andrew,

Have you considered Jazzband (https://jazzband.co/) for this ?

Guilhem.

Le jeudi 17 janvier 2019 19:07:06 UTC+1, Andrew Godwin a écrit :
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm writing to you all to update you on the current situation of Channels 
> and related libraries (channels-redis and Daphne) and potentially ask for 
> help.
>
> I've been the sole maintainer of these projects for quite a while and it 
> has become unsustainable - all of my energy is taken up fielding issues and 
> support requests and I haven't been able to even get myself to start 
> looking at Django async stuff because of it.
>
> Given that, if nobody else can step forward to take over, I'll have to put 
> those three projects (Channels, channels-redis, and Daphne) into an 
> explicit maintenance mode where they only accept security requests via the 
> normal security@ route, and start the process of retiring them as active 
> Django projects, as I don't want to give the impression they're still 
> maintained if they're not.
>
> (note: the asgiref project is still fine and should probably move out of 
> Django to its own effort at some point giving the growing set of ASGI tools)
>
> If people are willing to take over maintenance, I'm happy to help explain 
> some things but I don't have the bandwidth to bring someone completely up 
> from scratch, so I can't help mentor someone who is totally new to 
> maintaining open-source Python (sorry!).
>
> Once I recover a bit from the burnout I'll be able to come back and help 
> with the really complex bugs; the main thing I need out of is the seemingly 
> endless support requests and weird WebSocket client bugs.
>
> My personal deadline for this is two weeks, on February 1st. If you want 
> to help out, please feel free to reply either here or get in touch with me 
> personally to chat about what's involved.
>
> Andrew
>

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Re: Introduction GSoC

[oussama boumaad]

am sorry Noumbissi
you're a very welcome fellow .

On Jan 21 2019, at 9:42 am, Noumbissi Valere  wrote:
> Thanks Carlton.
>
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 9:38 AM Carlton Gibson  (mailto:carlton.gib...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > Hi Folks.
> >
> > First off: can we please keep it civil. Let's offer positive responses 
> > where possible. Thanks
> >
> > There's no harm in people asking for help: there is a contributing guide, 
> > but if folks aren't finding it, perhaps we need a bigger sign-post.
> >
> > So...
> >
> > The place to begin is here: 
> > https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/internals/contributing/
> >
> > See the Development Dashboard: https://dashboard.djangoproject.com
> >
> > Looking at Unreviewed Tickets on the issue tracker and helping to Triage 
> > them is super helpful.
> > That's a good place to get familiar.
> >
> > That doesn't make a GSoC project, so looking through Accepted tickets (take 
> > your time! )
> > would be a good place to look for ideas.
> >
> > I don't think we have a ready list of GSoC-scale project ideas we can point 
> > you to I'm afraid. (Anyone?)
> >
> > I hope that at least gets you started.
> >
> > Welcome aboard!
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> >
> > Carlton
> >
> >
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Re: Introduction GSoC

[Noumbissi Valere]

Thanks Carlton.

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 9:38 AM Carlton Gibson 
wrote:

> Hi Folks.
>
> First off: can we please keep it civil. Let's offer positive responses
> where possible. Thanks
>
> There's no harm in people asking for help: there is a contributing guide,
> but if folks aren't finding it, perhaps we need a bigger sign-post.
>
> So...
>
> The place to begin is here:
> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/internals/contributing/
>
> See the Development Dashboard: https://dashboard.djangoproject.com
>
> Looking at Unreviewed Tickets on the issue tracker and helping to Triage
> them is super helpful.
> That's a good place to get familiar.
>
> That doesn't make a GSoC project, so looking through Accepted tickets
> (take your time! )
> would be a good place to look for ideas.
>
> I don't think we have a ready list of GSoC-scale project ideas we can
> point you to I'm afraid. (Anyone?)
>
> I hope that at least gets you started.
>
> Welcome aboard!
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Carlton
>
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Re: Introduction GSoC

[Carlton Gibson]

Hi Folks. 

First off: can we please keep it civil. Let's offer positive responses 
where possible. Thanks 

There's no harm in people asking for help: there is a contributing guide, 
but if folks aren't finding it, perhaps we need a bigger sign-post.  

So...

The place to begin is 
here: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/internals/contributing/

See the Development Dashboard: https://dashboard.djangoproject.com

Looking at Unreviewed Tickets on the issue tracker and helping to Triage 
them is super helpful. 
That's a good place to get familiar. 

That doesn't make a GSoC project, so looking through Accepted tickets (take 
your time! ) 
would be a good place to look for ideas. 

I don't think we have a ready list of GSoC-scale project ideas we can point 
you to I'm afraid. (Anyone?)

I hope that at least gets you started. 

Welcome aboard! 

Kind Regards,

Carlton

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Re: Introduction GSoC

[oussama boumaad]

Hello Noumbissi ,

I think you're skilled in python but you're not enough skilled in "" GOOGLEing" 
.
you can start with the officiel django tutorial.

https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/2.1/intro/tutorial01/
Best regards.
On Jan 21 2019, at 1:50 am, noumbissival...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hello Everyone! Am Noumbissi Valere, a student from Cameroon. Am skilled in 
> python and have used django to build some web apps. Am new to open source and 
> will love to contribute to django, hoping to participate for GSoC this Year. 
> Please can anyone help me on how to get started?
>
>
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