Re: Upcoming Contributing to the Django Docs Workshops

[Daniele Procida]

moshe nahmias wrote:

>Can you check to make sure I registered for the workshop? I didn't get
>any confirmation or link to where I should connect.
>I registered with the email I sent this message.
>Or should I register again to make sure? I assume duplicates are less welcome

The form doesn't send out confirmations I think.

Daniele

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Re: Upcoming Contributing to the Django Docs Workshops

[Daniele Procida]

Carlton Gibson wrote:

>Daniele Procida will be leading a couple of free workshops on
>contributing to the Django docs, and learning the Diátaxis framework for
>documentation. 
>
>These will be over the next two Wednesdays, the 16th and 23rd of June,
>at different times to be available as many timezones as possible. 
>
>There's a sign-up form, with more information here: 
>
>https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1WC0mXNEf7kwDaS_3Q1d5WeQz5dJM8A1fWvna-_UrkNw

Hi folks. Thanks for the interest in these workshops. There has been very good 
take-up but we have room for a few more people on each day without the risk of 
having too many.

I'll be starting a new job in early July, but before then I'll have some extra 
time to dedicate to people working on Django documentation, and I'd be really 
pleased to make as much impact with this as possible - so please sign up with 
the link above if you're interested.

Daniele

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Security releases for django CMS 3.4, 3.5, 3.6 and 3.7

[Daniele Procida]

Hi folks. 

We have released security updates for django CMS versions 3.7.x, 3.6.x, 3.5.x 
and 3.4.x to address medium-level vulnerabilities. We recommend updating to 
version 3.7.4, 3.6.1, 3.5.4 or 3.4.7.



The updated releases are now available from our GitHub repository 
 and PyPI for installation via Pip. 

Divio users can also update their django CMS installations via the Control 
Panel.

Thanks to Sahil Dhar for the detailed report.

Sahil discovered that django CMS does not validate plugin_type parameter while 
generating the error messages for invalid plugin types. The vulnerability 
allows an attacker to execute arbitrary JavaScript code in the web browser of 
an affected user.

Please see the relevant commits on GitHub for more information about the 
vulnerability and mitigation.

As ever, we remind our users and contributors that all security reports, 
patches and concerns be addressed only to our security team by email, at 
secur...@django-cms.org.

Please do not use GitHub, our email lists or IRC to report, address or 
otherwise discuss matters relating to security.

Regards to all on behalf of the django CMS team,

Daniele

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Re: The blacklist / master issue

[Daniele Procida]

Tom Carrick wrote:

>I don't think there is an easy answer here, and I open this can of worms
>somewhat reluctantly. I do think Luke is correct that we should be
>concerned with our credibility if we wrongly change this, but I'm also
>worried about our credibility if we don't.

There are plenty of black-something terms in English that are both negative and 
have nothing whatsoever to do with race. The black and the dark are those 
things that are hidden and sinister, as contrasted with those that are in the 
light and open to scrutiny (black magic, dark arts, black legs, blackguards, 
blackmail, etc).

I think it would look pretty silly to confuse meanings that refer to what's 
shadowy and obscure with things that have racial overtones, and I think we 
should steer well clear of that. It's not at all like metaphors such as 
master/slave. 

If we made such a change and tried to justify it on the grounds of a connection 
between race and the word "black" in those terms, we'd be rightly laughed at.

1000 neckbeards would immediately come out of the woodwork having done some 
basic web searches going 'neeer neeer neeer, the Django Software Foundation 
overflowing with snowflakes who think that "blacklist" means [etc etc etc]', 
and who has the stomach for that? 

Even choosing to do it on the basis of the potential for offence seems to be a 
fairly flimsy argument.

On the other hand, we can do whatever the hell we like. 

We don't have to justify anything to anyone. If we want to change words in 
*our* framework, it's absolutely nobody's business but our own.

If black members of the DSF or the community are disheartened that the word 
"black" gets to refer to so many negative things and are bothered when they see 
them in Django, then that alone is sufficient justification. 

If we want a reason for changing "blacklist" (or whatever), it's that people in 
our community said they would feel better about it and asked to have it 
changed. 

Acknowledging how someone feels about something and acting because you care 
about their feelings seems to be a respectful thing to do.

"We did it because we felt like it" is an utterly unanswerable justification.

The DSF has credibility because the software is first rate, the foundation is 
well-governed and the community is an international example of decency and 
kindness. Things like this become credible because the DSF chooses to do them - 
it's not the other way round.

Daniele

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Re: Unsolicited mentorship requests

[Daniele Procida]

Elena Williams wrote:

>Just want to bring this up in case it's a "Thing"[tm] now, that I have
>missed: this last week I've had 3 different non-Australia non-female-
>presenting individuals who I don't know solicit me privately on social
>media for personal Django "mentorship". Frankly it's made me feel pretty
>uncomfortable, but I've never been approached like this so rather than
>just ruminating I thought I should just ask around if any one is
>familiar with this happening? It's just several in a short window of
>time seemed like a weird pattern.

That seems unusual, to me at least.

I also get contacted regularly about all kinds of things, but not in such a 
pattern.

Is there something off about the tone, or the assumptions?

One never really knows where one's name has been shared, and what expectations 
have been formed. I have in the past felt bothered by such things without 
always being able to put my finger on why.

Asking for personal mentorship without an introduction or explanation certainly 
seems a bit weird, and I would not like it either.

Regards,

Daniele

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RELEASE: django CMS 3.6

[Daniele Procida]

I'm very pleased to inform you that django CMS 3.6 is now officially available.



3.6 brings with it full support for Django 2.x, and drops support for Python 
2.7.

More details in the article above and in our changelog: 
.

django CMS 3.6 has been a year in the making. Thanks go to the whole team of 
contributors - everyone who has contributed, in small ways or large, whether 
it's code, documentation, tests, bug-reports or feedback.

Especial thanks are due to Angelo Dini and Bartosz Płóciennik who worked very 
hard to get it to the final release.

On behalf of all the django CMS team,

Daniele


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Re: BitBounce Spam Replies From the Mailing List

[Daniele Procida]

On Sun, Jan 6, 2019, Aymeric Augustin  
wrote:

>[[ I'm adding BitBounce support to this discussion, even though I expect
>I'll just get one more of their spam -- "we'll ignore the spam problem we
>cause to you until you pay money to us". ]]

>Here's one possible solution:
>
>- we export the individual email addresses of django-developers
>subscribers -- assuming Google Groups allows that

Unfortunately, there are too many members on the list, and the Export button is 
thus disabled.

>We can make tests by writing to aphiso...@gmail.com
> -- the address indirectly subscribed to
>django-developers that we're trying to remove.

I've tried various ways to search though the list members for a potential 
match, to no avail so far.

 suggests that  is a 
Reddit user with a fascination with cryptocurrencies.

I cannot imagine how much unwanted email BitBounce must be causing all over the 
world through this oversight - surely far more than they have ever stopped.

Daniele

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Re: BitBounce Spam Replies From the Mailing List

[Daniele Procida]

On Wed, Jan 2, 2019, Daniele Procida  wrote:

>On Tue, Jan 1, 2019, Daniele Procida  wrote:
>
>>If it continues to be an issue I will disable their receipt of email
>>temporarily. I assume I'll get the auto-replies myself to this message.
>
>One user's email receipt disabled so far; the user has been informed.

... and the other bounces from an email address that isn't even subscribed to 
the list!

That is extremely annoying.

Daniele

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Re: BitBounce Spam Replies From the Mailing List

[Daniele Procida]

On Tue, Jan 1, 2019, Daniele Procida  wrote:

>If it continues to be an issue I will disable their receipt of email
>temporarily. I assume I'll get the auto-replies myself to this message.

One user's email receipt disabled so far; the user has been informed.

Daniele

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RELEASE: django CMS 3.5.1

[Daniele Procida]

Hello everyone, we've released version 3.5.1 of django CMS.

The release contains bug-fixes, for a number of mostly minor issues.

Release notes are available at 
.

The new release is available on PyPI. On Divio Cloud, the new version of the 
django CMS Addon is currently in the Beta channel, and will shortly be moved to 
Stable.

On behalf of the django CMS team,

Daniele

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RELEASE: django CMS 3.5

[Daniele Procida]

I'm delighted to inform you that we have made the official release of django 
CMS 3.5!



Our weblog article above has most of what you need to know. 

The main thing to know is that this release of django CMS is significantly 
faster than before, especially when it comes to the user editing interface, and 
that this doesn't just make it quantitively faster, but transforms it into a 
qualitatively different, better, experience. It feels like a different tool.

You have to experience it to understand the difference it makes - but in 
practice, operations using the structure board  seem to be about one-third 
faster than previously (from > 22 seconds to < 12 seconds, as you'll see in the 
video in the article).

Our feedback from increasing numbers of large corporate users is that the 
latest version of django CMS is better-positioned than ever to give the CMS 
products traditionally used in that sector a very serious run for their money. 
For those of you who are developers, this represents new opportunities and 
possibilities for new clients.

Thanks to our magnificent team for all their work in this, especially Paulo 
Alvarado and Vadim Sikora here at Divio, who have co-ordinated development of 
backend and frontend components to achieve this. 

Thanks are also due to everyone who has contributed, in small ways or large, 
whether it's code, documentation, tests, bug-reports or feedback.

See the release notes: .

On behalf of all the django CMS team,

Daniele

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django CMS 3.5 Release Candidate 1

[Daniele Procida]

Hi everyone.

We've just issued the first release candidate version of django CMS 3.5. It's 
available from all the usual places:

GitHub: 
Download: 
Documentation: 
Release notes: 

Please report any issues you find with this release to our issue tracker at
.

This release of django CMS concentrates on usability and user-experience, by 
improving its responsiveness while performing editing operations, particularly 
those that involve updates to plugin trees.

Biggest changes of note:

* decoupling of the structure board from page rendering (you have to experience 
this to appreciate the difference it makes)
* decoupling of pages from the navigation node tree

Both bring significant speed advantages.

What's also new in 3.5

* page copy between sites
* better behaviour of the language chooser
* many bug-fixes
* ... and lots more!

Our weblog announcement: 
.

On behalf of all the django CMS development team,

Daniele

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Re: Easy pickings are not that easy for a new contributor

[Daniele Procida]

On Tue, Sep 5, 2017, Alexander Lyabah  wrote:

>A lot of articles that I've read say that I should start with ticket from 
>Easy pickings.

>The problem is that there are not that many tickets I can choose from. All 
>of them are already assign.
>
>Maybe I can start with writing tests?
>
>What should be my next step after I read all the documentation about 
>contribution?
>
>Thank you, and sorry for, possibly, stupid question.

It's not a stupid question at all. As Django has matured, the low-hanging fruit 
has all but disappeared from the tree.

It's a shame as well as being a good thing. We don't want to have open issues 
that could easily be remedied, but at the same time they are useful ways for 
new contributors to start.

Until we find a solution to this dilemma, I would:

* look at tests, as you suggest
* find parts of the documentation that seem unsatisfactory or lacking
* see if you can collaborate with somone who is already working on something, 
so that even if the issue is a larger one, there might be a more manageable 
part of it you can tackle.

Daniele

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Re: Aldryn Newsblog and Django 1.10 (or 1.11 LTS) Support

[Daniele Procida]

On Thu, Aug 10, 2017, michael.sch...@rz.uni-augsburg.de 
 wrote:

>Is there a planned release date in the near future for django 1.11 support?

Some time soon - we can't give an exact date, but we are working on it.

Daniele

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Now available: django CMS 3.4.4

[Daniele Procida]

I'm pleased to announce that version 3.4.4 is available. Many thanks to our 
core developer Paulo Alvarado who steered this release, and to all contributors.

See the weblog for more details: 


Regards,

Daniele

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Re: A New Design for the "Congratulations!" Page

[Daniele Procida]

On Tue, Apr 18, 2017, Tim Allen  wrote:

>It struck me that this page is valuable real estate

Yes it is! Firstly, I think that both your idea and design are excellent and I 
approve.

Secondly, since that space is valuable, perhaps it could also say:

This release of Django has been sponsored by . 

Django is free open-source software. Support Django's development 

The more I think about this, the less I think it's a bad idea...

Daniele

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Re: DJANGO_SETTINGS_FILE

[Daniele Procida]

On Sat, Apr 8, 2017, James Pic  wrote:

>I'm sorry you've seized the opportunity to use my effort to put a little
>joy and humor in my message to push me on the slope, sorry that it's been
>misinterpreted and that I just don't understand at all your technical
>explanation. I guess there is always that risk.

I think in these discussions the greatest risk isn't failure to understand 
something technical, but failure to understand the other person.

Given differences in timezones, language, cultural expectations etc with great 
opportunity for misunderstandings to escalate, it seems like a good idea, when 
there is any doubt, to assume that what another person is saying is friendlier 
than it appears, and that no-one is trying to win arguments by making others 
look bad.

Daniele

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Re: Django 2.0 Python version support (Python 3.6+ only?)

[Daniele Procida]

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017, Florian Apolloner  wrote:

>Not sure on how we'd put that into text, but something along the lines of 
>"we will support 3.4+ as long as feasible for us to do so" -- though I do 
>understand that this is like the same as saying: "We'll just support what 
>we want, how long we want" :D

For the purposes of being reassuring, it needs to be concrete, otherwise we're 
just moving people's doubt and uncertainty around!


It seems reasonable that Django 2.0 should continue to support Python 3.4, and 
that Django 2.1 should not. That provides a decent ledge of overlap for those 
climbing up these tricky upgrade paths to rest on and catch their breath.

Daniele

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Re: Django 2.0 Python version support (Python 3.6+ only?)

[Daniele Procida]

On Fri, Jan 6, 2017, Florian Apolloner  wrote:

>In the end (in my experience), people are using Django everywhere and part 
>of the usage also comes from the fact that it's not that hard to deploy for 
>sysadmins since python is available anywhere; compiling a new Python + 
>infrastructure around it is something else again and requires a lot of 
>change requests in some companies.

In practical terms it makes a big difference. Remember 
,
 that prompted a change of LTS policy?

*Anything* that makes the transition easier is to be welcomed, and that doesn't 
just mean technically easier, it also means easier to think about and to talk 
about to project managers and clients and web project owners. 

Reassurance in time of change counts for a great deal. When someone gets to 
spend a day or two basking in the glory of a top item on Hacker News because he 
wrote a "Don't go to Python 3" article, there is clearly some reassuring to be 
done.

If the technical cost of supporting 3.4 in Django 2.0 is not too high, I feel 
it would be valuable to have it.

The actual technical justification for keeping it may be weak, but barriers to 
adoption are not always technical ones anyway, and my preference would be to 
keep them as low as possible.

Daniele

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Re: Creating page types programatically

[Daniele Procida]

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016, Patrick Heneghan  wrote:

>It might help for me to explain this in context - for example, I'm going to 
>have a "post type" called "blog", which should have title and content 
>fields, and then "event", which should have additional location, date, and 
>time fields.

Hi Patrick.

I hadn't realised that by Page Type you meant, in effect, a different content 
model.

Page Types in django CMS are a way to take a snapshot of a page for resuse, to 
save you having to re-do a complex layout that you often reuse.

If you want to manage weblog content, or events, use a weblog or events 
application, so that instead of shoe-horning information into unsuitable 
containers, you can have models that are designed to hold it in the most useful 
way.

Other CMSes (like Wagtail and Mezzanine) extend their pages in the way you 
describe, but django CMS has always avoided that as a core principle.

Daniele

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Re: What about to add a page copied signal?!

[Daniele Procida]

On Wed, Jul 27, 2016, Philippe O. Wagner  wrote:

>We are missing a signal that will be fired after a page was copied using 
>page.copy_page? 
>Would this be helpful for anybody else?

What is the exact use-case? Is it:

* a user-triggered copy action via the web interface
* a copy invoked via the CMS's APIs, by an external application
* a copy action triggered by publishing a page
* something else?

I can imagine that you might want it in one of the first two cases, but not the 
third, for example, but I don't think the mechanism actually distinguishes 
between the different ways it might be called.

Daniele

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Re: Resolved: wontfix is not productive

[Daniele Procida]

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016, Charlie Hayes  wrote:

>How does the Django team know how many developers would use a feature like 
>this when said developers never get a chance to use it? Django includes a 
>lot of inane features that many fewer developers would use compared to 
>this. The documentation for all of Django is already pretty bad (it's 
>poorly organized, poorly hyperlinked, uses bad examples, etc, regardless of 
>what others say); blocking a PR from acceptance because the documentation 
>doesn't measure up to the bar set in practice is illogical.

Please don't be rude. 

You'd like the almost entirely unpaid volunteers in the team to listen 
sympathetically to your concerns; don't begin by insulting their work.

Most people think that Django's documenation is exemplary. I don't think you'll 
find anyone who shares your opinion of it. In any case, a great deal of once 
again almost entirely unremunerated effort has gone into it, just like the rest 
of Django.

You may even be right about the need for this feature, but no-one on the team 
is paid enough to deal with people who insult them, so it doesn't matter 
whether you are or not.

>Practically every site that prints numbers to the screen (read: all sites) 
>could benefit from features like this. If the work is incomplete, let 
>someone take over or explain what else needs to be implemented before 
>acceptance is gained. Closing it as won't fix is irrational and discourages 
>the community (and adoption of the framework).

Feel free to reopen the proposal with a clear picture of what you think is 
needed and how you think the need should be met, but be prepared to state the 
case well. And more courteously please. Nobody on the team is obliged to deal 
with the expression of your anger.

Daniele

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Re: Form field labels change proposal

[Daniele Procida]

On Sat, Jul 2, 2016, Sergei Maertens  wrote:

>I've talked with some other core developers at the sprint, and the proposed 
>flow is more in line with the initial proposal again:
>
>* The deprecation cycle would include a settings (let's call it 
>CAPFIRST_MODELFORM_LABEL), defaulting to False (the new behaviour). Users 
>who wish to keep the old behaviour for a while set this to True
>* The capfirst calls (there are 2 relevant ones) are replaced by wrappers 
>that check the CAPFIRST_MODELFORM_LABEL setting. If it's set to True, the 
>real capfirst is applied to field.verbose_name, else the raw 
>field.verbose_name is returned.
>* The Django admin css can be updated to include the CSS rule, so it looks 
>still the same. Drawback is that this breaks tests if people are actively 
>checking the labels/HTML for forms. The recommended approach here is to 
>provide the capitalized strings in verbose_name
>* For the front-end, the example CSS can be documented, or the option to 
>capitalize the verbose_name.
>
>Note that the new behaviour would be the default in the setting.

We've discussed this at the sprint; this seems like a pretty good approach to 
me. I'm not convinced by the label names, but that's a detail.

>One other drawback I just thought of is that validation errors sometimes 
>include the verbose_name (I think). This can look weird if the 
>end-developer has specified a capitalized verbose_name, but that's also the 
>case already. The recommended approach here would be to do the capitalizing 
>in CSS.

I think the main issue here is the possibility of weird-looking sentences 
coming out generally, but especially in languages that follow different rules 
from English.

Daniele

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Re: change commit message format to present tense?

[Daniele Procida]

On Mon, Jun 27, 2016, Reinout van Rees  wrote:

>Op 26-06-16 om 05:31 schreef Kevin Christopher Henry:
>> If anyone's put off by the hectoring tone of the imperative mood, it
>> might be better to think of it as the indicative mood. That is:
>>
>> (This will) "add password validation to prevent the usage of...".
>>
>> rather than
>>
>> (You must) "add password validation to prevent the usage of..."!
>
>"It might be better to think of it as...": it is exactly this extra 
>thinkwork that everyone reading the messages has to do. We write it once 
>and read it many times: what should we optimize for?
>In our source code, the answer is clearly that you should optimize for 
>readability.
>Why is it suddenly different for commit messages?

I'm inclined to agree with Reinout that a descriptive message makes more sense 
and is easier to understand than one written in the form of an instruction.

Why would a log record be written as an imperative?

"Updated gnools" tells you what has happened (and even "Updates gnools" is a 
label saying what the thing it's attached to will do).

"Update gnools" would make sense as the label for an interface button, but not 
really as a record in a log.

Apart from consistency with Git's own messages, I don't really see the 
advantage.

Daniele

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Re: change commit message format to present tense?

[Daniele Procida]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016, Jon Dufresne  wrote:

>On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Carl Meyer  wrote:
>
>> To be clear, the recommended git style is not present tense, it is
>> imperative mood. So it should _not_ be "Fixes #12345 -- Regulates the
>> frobnicator", it should be "Fix #12345 -- Regulate the frobnicator."
>>
>
>Do you have a link to an authoritative source stating this as the
>recommended style or is it just common knowledge?
>
>I'm not arguing against the proposal (in fact, I agree with it), I'm just
>curious if there is documentation to support one style over the other.

Lately I keep being recommended .

The most compelling reason is that Git itself uses the imperative mood:

Merge branch ...

Revert ...

Daniele

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Re: Extending JSONField serialization

[Daniele Procida]

On Wed, Jun 22, 2016, Marcin Nowak  wrote:

>On Tuesday, January 5, 2016 at 5:29:14 PM UTC+1, Tim Graham wrote:
>>
>> This came up in a ticket a couple days ago: 
>> https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/25995

>May I ask why this ticket was resolved just by adding some information to 
>the documentation?

It's not resolved - the ticket is open, and Accepted.

>I do not understand why some 3rd party package has some significance here.

While it remains unresolved, that's useful information.

Daniele

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Re: Help! ImportError: No module named ...

[Daniele Procida]

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016, Damián LLuch Castelli  wrote:

>Hi, It is the first time I write here. Sorry for the beginner question.

This is not the correct place for questions like this. 

You'll get answers to questions like this on the django-users email list, 
 - the web interface is 
. 

The list you've posted to is django-developers, which is for the discussion of 
the development of Django itself. 

You might also find the #django IRC channel on irc.freenode.net helpful. 

Daniele

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Re: Getting DNS error when trying to access URL

[Daniele Procida]

On Mon, Feb 22, 2016, blogit...@gmail.com  wrote:

>I am keep getting DNS error when trying to access my site some thing to do 
>with DNS since it keep giving me error in some times of day. 
>http://www.matchmate.ca

Sorry, I approved this spam by mistake.

Daniele

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Re: Vote on Jira as bugtracker

[Daniele Procida]

On Thu, Jan 7, 2016, Yamila Moreno  wrote:

>I'm Yamila, part of Taiga Team and Kaleidos (the company that develops 
>Taiga.io). We're very happy to be as a "completely hypothetical" candidate 
>for a new bugtracker. Taiga (a Django and open source project) being used 
>by django-dev would be huge :)
>
>I just wanted to let you know that me or anyone in our team would be glad 
>to answer any question about the product, saas or installation, migrating 
>issues or anything related. No strings attached, of course!!!

Thanks Yamila.

Are you already familiar with Trac and the way we use it?

Key things are:

* integration with GitHub (tickets, login)
* integration with Django Project login
* integration with site styling
* workflow

(I expect I've missed something.)

What scope is there for automated migration? 

And perhaps users familiar both with Taiga and our Trac might be able to 
comment too?

Daniele

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Re: Vote on Jira as bugtracker

[Daniele Procida]

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016, Daniele Procida <dani...@vurt.org> wrote:

>By all means it's useful to get votes on something like this, even
>before we consider those questions, because if enough people want
>something it's always possible - but be aware that simply getting lots
>of votes for it would only ever be the first and easiest step.

While we're in the realm of the completely hypothetical, if I were going to 
find myself enthusiastic about moving to a new development tracking platform, 
it would be Taiga. <https://taiga.io>

It's written in Django, by a company that actively supports the Django 
community. It's open-source.  The people who develop it are approachable and 
friendly. It has a nice name.

Daniele

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Re: Vote on Jira as bugtracker

[Daniele Procida]

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016, Victor Sosa  wrote:

>I felt like lost using trac; it is kind of messy. I just don't feel
>comfortable 
>with it. 
>I see so many open source project using Jira that is just natural. Search 
>is easy, categorize is easy, look through the all issues and task is quick. 
>
>I would like to propose a vote on Jira as the bugtracker for this project. 
>Just vote + or - to see how many people agree on this.

Hi Victor. It's a reasonable proposition, but it's not simply a case of 
choosing what would be nicer: we also have to make it work in our 
infrastructure - and that's a huge effort.

How, for example, would we migrate the many thousands of tickets from Trac to 
JIRA?

How would JIRA be integrated into our current deployment infrastructure?

By all means it's useful to get votes on something like this, even before we 
consider those questions, because if enough people want something it's always 
possible - but be aware that simply getting lots of votes for it would only 
ever be the first and easiest step.

Having said that: I prefer Trac to JIRA. It's simpler, and faster. 

Daniele

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Re: structural & functional review of django documentation

[Daniele Procida]

On Mon, Dec 28, 2015, Samuel Bishop  wrote:

>I think the general concept would be covered by either creating a "fourth 
>division". So we would go from "topics", "reference", and "how-to", to 
>"topics", "reference", "how-to", and "implementation"/"internals"/"APIs"/etc
>Or enhancing the content in the reference section so that in addition to 
>our existing handwritten documentation, we expose the 'api-docs' tree as an 
>addendum to the reference section.

The main existing sections are:

* tutorials (/intro)

Tutorials take the new user by the hand through a series of steps. The 
important thing isn't to explain all the steps, but to achieve something useful 
with a minimum of effort. 

After every step of a tutorial, the user should have something that works, even 
if they barely understand what is happening (and it's not necessary for them to 
understand, that can come later. What matters is that they are successful).

* how-to guides (/howto)

How-to guides are recipes that take the user through steps in key subjects. 
They are more advanced than tutorials and assume a lot more about what the user 
already knows than tutorials do, and unlike documents in the tutorial they can 
stand alone.  

* discussion and explanation (/topic)

Aimed at explaining (at a fairly high level) rather than doing.

* reference (/ref)

Technical reference for APIs, key models and so on. It doesn't need to explain 
so much as describe and instruct.


I don't know who came up with this structure in Django, but whoever did got it 
absolutely right.

The structure doesn't confuse teaching with explaining, and understands why 
tutorials should be concerned with concrete and particular rather than abstract 
and general matters. It understands the difference between explaning how to 
achieve something and explaining how something works. And so on.

I think that the structure of the documentation as much as its content is what 
makes it so good, but also that it's structure is obvious - so I am surprised 
that not everyone finds it so obvious. If that's the case then I agree it 
should be made more explicit.

Daniele

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Re: User notification by email of account detail changes

[Daniele Procida]

On Sun, Nov 15, 2015, Baptiste Mispelon  wrote:

>For your djangoproject account, you can change your display name and 
>email there: https://www.djangoproject.com/accounts/edit/.

Heh, thanks, not even Florian was aware of that.

Is this documented somewhere?

Daniele

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User notification by email of account detail changes

[Daniele Procida]

I've been discussing with Florian on IRC a suggestion for improved account 
security.

On many sites, you will get a message a message like this:

>Hello evildmp,
>
>We wanted to let you know that your GitHub password was changed.
>
>If you did not perform this action, you can recover access by entering
>dani...@vurt.org into the form at https://github.com/password_reset.
>
>To see this and other security events for your account, visit https://
>github.com/settings/security.
>
>If you run into problems, please contact support by visiting https://
>github.com/contact or replying to this email.

(In fact my gumtree.com account was compromised, and this mechanism is how I 
learned about it, and was able to alert Gumtree and have a fraudulent 
advertisment removed from my account within minutes).

A similar thing would be valuable in Django, to help improve the security of 
all Django accounts and sites.

I am not sure how it could or should be implemented; Florian suggests as part 
of a more general audit framework.

On a related matter, my djangoproject.com account has an associated email 
address (not the same one as at code.djangoproject.com) but I don't think I am 
able to change that.

Daniele

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Re: simplifying the install page

[Daniele Procida]

On Fri, Sep 25, 2015, Tim Graham  wrote:

>The install page mentions several different ways to install Django, from 
>pip install (recommended), to `setup.py install`, to symlinking the Django 
>checkout in your site-packages. Do you see any reason to keep the latter 
>methods instead of recommending pip all the time? 
>
>https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.8/topics/install/

I can't see any good reason to keep symlink method, but maybe I am missing 
something.

I'd prefer to see the use of virtualenv built-in to the process from the very 
start, and a quickstart version of the instructions as the first thing that 
people see:

virtualenv django-virtualenv
source django-virtualenv/bin/activate
pip install django

I know that's not so simple, and that Windows users need to do something a bit 
different, but at least seeing something that simple near the top of the 
document would be a promise that installation *can* be that easy.

Daniele

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Re: Django's docs application as a reusable app

[Daniele Procida]

On Fri, Aug 14, 2015, Jannis Leidel <lei...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Daniele,
>
>> On 14 Aug 2015, at 13:56, Daniele Procida <dani...@vurt.org> wrote:
>> 
>> We've been looking at the application used by the Django Project to
>build and manage the Sphinx documentation:
>
>When you say we, who is that?

We = Divio, http://divio.ch, and associated projects such as django CMS.

>I'm not eager to collaborate at this point as it would essentially come
>close to a rewrite and we're already short staffed on the Django
>websites team. If you'd turn it into a separate package the amount of
>customization and glue code to reintegrate it into the Django site code
>would be more work for us than we currently can handle. But at least the
>license is the same as Django's so feel free to use it however you like.
>Just please understand that you'd probably be on your own.
>
>In relation to that, have you looked at alternatives like
>
>- https://pypi.python.org/pypi/django-sphinxdoc/
>- https://pypi.python.org/pypi/django-docs
>- https://github.com/rtfd/readthedocs.org

Yes, we're looking at various ways of doing it, of which this is one.

>Of course there is also the commercial offer from the ReadTheDocs folk
>at https://readthedocs.com/ that should be interesting for businesses
>that aim at using Sphinx for documentation. I hear that Eric and the
>others at RTD are good people and would welcome input from you.

They certainly are - we use RTD a lot, and love it, and in fact we sponsor it 
too.

Thanks for the feedback.

Daniele

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Django's docs application as a reusable app

[Daniele Procida]

We've been looking at the application used by the Django Project to build and 
manage the Sphinx documentation:



We want similar functionality for some of our own websites, because doing it 
this way is a much more seamless way than having documentation hosted on Read 
the Docs, particularly from the point of view of the styling.

So, we want to explore the possibility of turning the application into a 
reusable application, that can easily be dropped into a Django-based website to 
build Sphinx documentation.

The application currently is quite tied into the deployment environment and 
configuration of the Django Project website, so some of the work will be be to 
abstract it from that.

A reusable version of the application will be useful for the many people who 
have Django sites and Sphinx documentation. It could be useful for the Django 
Project too, because abstracting its configuration and environment conditions 
will presumably make it easier to deploy the Django Project site in a different 
environment in the future.

If anyone's interested in being involved in this, let me know.

Regards,

Daniele

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Re: TabularInline

[Daniele Procida]

On Fri, Mar 13, 2015, Rodrigo Ancavil  wrote:

>Can I display model's function fields on a TabularInline? 

Hi Rodrigo.

You'll get answers to questions like this on the django-users email list, 
 - the web interface is 
. 

The list you've posted to is django-developers, which is for the discussion of 
the development of Django itself.

You might also find the #django IRC channel on irc.freenode.net helpful.

Daniele


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Re: Django documentation doesn't show correctly in any browser

[Daniele Procida]

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015, Some Developer  wrote:

>Any suggestions? I'm pretty sure I can't be the only one who is having 
>issues.

It's not looking like that for me, no idea what's happening for you.

Daniele

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Re: Updating logging docs

[Daniele Procida]

On Tue, Dec 30, 2014, Lee Trout  wrote:

>I'd like to see a mention of the defaults existing in
>`django.utils.log.DEFAULT_LOGGING` *at a minimum*. Given the desire to
>understand the entire technical scope I think it would be worth repeating
>the default settings in the default logging configuration heading at the
>bottom of the page (and toss a comment in django.utils.log that if it's
>updated remember to update the docs).
>
>Thoughts?

I think that logging needs a proper step-by-step how-to, not more topic or 
reference documentation. That would make the existing documentation far more 
meaningful.

It's something I've been meaning to look at for a couple of years at least, but 
I'm not actually any closer to it.

Daniele

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Re: How to Display the number of active users in Django Site with IP address

[Daniele Procida]

On Sun, Dec 21, 2014, Avinash Kunuje  wrote:

>How to Display the number of active users in Django Site with IP address

Hello Avinash. 

You'll get answers to questions like this on the django-users email list, 
 - the web interface is 
. 

The list you've posted to is django-developers, which is for the discussion of 
the development of Django itself.

You might also find the #django IRC channel on irc.freenode.net helpful.

Daniele


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Re: ANN: Django website redesign launched

[Daniele Procida]

On Wed, Dec 17, 2014, Rob  wrote:

>On Tuesday, December 16, 2014 5:58:00 PM UTC-5, Christian Schmitt wrote:
>>
>> Somehow I hate it. The website is the worst website I've seen since a long 
>> time.
>> The contrast is really aweful.
>> The issue Tracker got unusable due to the colors that aren't focused on 
>> readability.
>>
>
>Clearly.  My audit extension flags 47 contrast problems on the home page 
>alone.  The site is not very accessible contrast wise.
>
>Doesn't look like a designer or a graphic guy had his hands on that.
>>
>
>It clearly had a designer,  but they don't grok usability.
>
>I hate to be "that guy" but this is not really an improvement other than it 
>works on mobile now ...

We'd hate you to be "that guy" too. However, so far you are "that guy", since 
merely announcing that you have identified numerous accessibility issues is 
useless. 

The repository is . It's all open. 
If you're able to suggest or make improvements, you know what to do if you want 
to stop being "that guy".

Daniele

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Re: ANN: Django website redesign launched

[Daniele Procida]

On Wed, Dec 17, 2014, Torsten Bronger  wrote:

>> In the meantime I have removed you from our email lists, since
>> your tone is not welcome here. Please don't come back unless you
>> can communicate in a more acceptable way.
>
>Is this customary procedure on this mailing list in such cases?

People are very rarely as discourteous as that, so it doesn't happen often.

We have a code of conduct for the community 
.

>Normally one simply ignores postings/authors one doesn't like.

It wasn't something I simply didn't "like". It was unkind and disparaging 
remarks (not to mention aimed at people who had put in a lot of collaborative 
effort on behalf of the community, and at their work).

It's not acceptable here and won't be tolerated, whoever is making the remarks 
or whom they're aimed at.
 
>I hope that banned users don't have the answers to my questions.  ;-)
>Besides, a sock puppet is made in minutes ...

He's not banned; he's welcome back here at any time. It's the tone that's not 
permitted.

Daniele

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Re: ANN: Django website redesign launched

[Daniele Procida]

On Tue, Dec 16, 2014, Schmitt, Christian  wrote:

>Somehow I hate it. The website is the worst website I've seen since a long
>time.
>The contrast is really aweful.
>The issue Tracker got unusable due to the colors that aren't focused on
>readability.
>
>Overall it looks like a mess, just to have a new design.
>
>Doesn't look like a designer or a graphic guy had his hands on that.
>I can't realized why some should replace a good and usable design which had
>some practical usage and also a good readability with the "thing" we have
>now.
>
>Sorry but I will stick to the old docs as for now or use the PDF ones with
>my custom style (since your colors are aweful, too).
>
>Django should focus on a clear design which is helpful for readability and
>not this stupid mess.

As the message you replied to indicated, various people worked very hard on 
this. 

Your comments are unkind and hurtful, and also completely useless, since they 
don't identify a single specific problem or improvement.

Here's the code ; you're welcome 
to help improve it if you can.

In the meantime I have removed you from our email lists, since your tone is not 
welcome here. Please don't come back unless you can communicate in a more 
acceptable way.

Daniele

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Re: Proposal: Prevent data loss in the admin

[Daniele Procida]

On Mon, Dec 8, 2014, Rune Kaagaard  wrote:

>I've made a branch that adds optimistic concurrency control to the admin: 
>https://github.com/runekaagaard/django-lock-the-admin/compare/adminlock. It 
>works for the main change object and inlines and has tests. All tests 
>passes with postgres and sqlite.

I like the concept.

I would prefer however to see something like:

3 items on this page have been updated by another user while you were 
editing them.

You can:

* see the other user's changes[link] in a new browser window, and apply 
your changes there, or
* refresh this pages[link] (Warning! your changes here will be lost!) 
and reapply your changes here

This way the user is invited to compare the differences and to copy their 
changes over, rather than simply lose them.

Daniele

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Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

[Daniele Procida]

On Wed, Sep 10, 2014, Josh Smeaton  wrote:

>Perhaps the wording could then be closer to the intent. Something like "if 
>a member of the Django community is treated abusively by another member of 
>the Django community outside of a Django forum, and is reported, it will 
>warrant investigation and may result in action".

The problematic behaviour doesn't need to be reported, and it doesn't need to 
be either by a member of the community or towards a member of the community.

I know at least a couple of individuals whose behaviour in other spaces means 
that they would be watched very closely if they turned up at one of our events, 
even if they haven't yet caused any Django-related problems.

Of course it's true that reported problems will be investigated, but that 
process is described in some detail already elsewhere.

Daniele

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Re: Django 1.7 migrations and third-party imports

[Daniele Procida]

On Tue, Sep 9, 2014, Greg Brown  wrote:

>Moving over to the new migrations, I noticed that whenever I
>create a migration involving a custom model field, it imports that field
>at the top of the migration. The South docs were always quite firm about
>not doing this sort of thing, in case the code changed in the future. Is
>this a design decision, i.e. we now expected to make sure imports in our
>migration files always work in the future?

Hi Greg,

You'll get answers to your questions on the django-users email list, 
 - the web interface is 
. 

The list you've posted to is django-developers, an email list is for the 
discussion of the development of Django itself.

You might also find helpful the #django IRC channel on irc.freenode.net.

Daniele

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Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

[Daniele Procida]

On Tue, Sep 9, 2014, Alex Gaynor  wrote:

>When Jacob and I originally drafted the CoC, we specifically included an
>enumeration of some disallowed behaviors on the recommendation of the Ada
>Initiative -- it was their view that the list helped to minimize rules
>lawyering, whereby someone attempts to explain how they could not have
>known their behavior was disallowed.

It's important to list things like this. The fact that it's impossible to list 
every possible one is not a good reason not to list some.

No-one thinks that their behaviour is objectionable, otherwise they wouldn't be 
doing it. Explicitly mentioning particular examples of behaviour helps make it 
harder for someone to "not realise" that what they are doing is unwelcome.

Daniele

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Re: The greatest proposal yet: rename this damn group

[Daniele Procida]

On Tue, Sep 9, 2014, Thomas Leo  wrote:

>> and in most cases one has the impression that successfully finding a 
>place to
>> ask a question and writing a message expressing their question about 
>Django
>> development is an achievement in itself for them.
>
>This seems rather condescending to new Django users.

I wasn't referring to new Django users, but people for whom it is a significant 
extra effort to read and write in English.

Daniele

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Re: The greatest proposal yet: rename this damn group

[Daniele Procida]

On Tue, Sep 9, 2014, Robert Grant  wrote:

>Totally agree Daniele. I don't know how other people experience the group, 
>but I actually didn't see the email address, and didn't even look at the 
>URL.

I'm not sure how much effect any of this will have.

We get a few (I'd say about three or four) messages a week to django-developers 
that should have gone to django-users.

They are almost all from people whose first language is clearly not English, 
and in most cases one has the impression that successfully finding a place to 
ask a question and writing a message expressing their question about Django 
development is an achievement in itself for them.

As long as this email list is the first one that appears in a web serch for 
things like "django developer email list", it's going to be where their 
messages get sent.

It may actually have more effect to change the name and description of 
django-users, to "For developers working with Django" and "Discussion group for 
developers working with the Django web framework: djangoproject.com. New 
members and beginners are welcome".

Daniele

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Re: The greatest proposal yet: rename this damn group

[Daniele Procida]

On Tue, Sep 9, 2014, Russell Keith-Magee  wrote:

>As a matter of formality, I'd like to put this through the technical board
>so that it isn't just a fiat decision by the handful of people motivated to
>participate in this discussion.

By the way, there are three related pieces of information (in Manage > 
Information > General information):

Group name: Django developers

Group email address: django-developers (can't be changed)

Group description: Discussion group for Django developers. This group is used 
for discussion of developing Django itself, not user questions; Please use 
django-users for issues regarding using the framework, questions for the Django 
user community outreach, etc.


The description's the easy one, but I don't think it's going to make a huge 
amount of difference. I doubt it's what catches people's attention. I'd suggest 
something shorter like:

Discussion group for the development of Django and contribution to the 
project. For questions about and help with Django, please use 
django-users.

The group name is the problematic one. If it matches the email address; it's 
misleading; if it doesn't, it's confusing.

Daniele

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Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

[Daniele Procida]

On Mon, Sep 8, 2014, Benjamin Scherrey  wrote:

>I thought I made my objections pretty clear in my original email but I'll
>attempt to be more pedantic about it now. The specific language in the PR
>86 is:
>
>"In addition, violations of this code outside these spaces may affect a
>person's ability to participate within them." for both faq.html and
>index.html.
>
>I disagree with your assertion "that only makes explicit something that was
>already the case" because that's a) not how I read it and b) completely
>impossible to reasonably enforce or expect.

I can assure you that if we became aware of someone's problematic behaviour 
then depending on the behaviour we could do anything from keeping a careful eye 
on the individual to - in extreme cases - banning them from participation.

"Violations of this code outside these spaces may affect a person's ability to 
participate within them" is correct. It doesn't mean that action will be taken, 
but that it may be.

That's already the case. If a known harrasser subscribes starts posting to one 
of our email lists, we might have a quiet word with them, just for example.  

>I hope that what is occurring is
>simply a matter of "I don't think it means what you think it means" but
>what you're really saying here is that all people on this planet must
>comply with our "code of conduct" at all times in all places or risk being
>removed from our community - right after, mind you ironically, claiming to
>support an encourage the participation of all individuals. 

Being removed from the community would be the last, not the first, course of 
action.

>So what is this
>code of conduct that we're imposing on all of humanity for the salvation of
>the world?

You've had your points answered twice already, politely both times. If you want 
to make sarcastic remarks for your own amusement, don't expect any more replies.

Daniele

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Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

[Daniele Procida]

On Mon, Sep 8, 2014, Benjamin Scherrey  wrote:

>Nothing you've written disagrees with what I said, nor do you address
>the core concern I bring up about the "change of substance" which is chock
>full of opportunities for the law of unintended consequences to come up and
>bite us all. 

What in your opinion is (or was) the "change of substance" in 
?

I didn't see any but a very minor one, that only makes explicit something that 
was already the case.

>Re-reading the existing documents, I find that this language
>introduces an entirely different tone to the language of these policies
>and, again, implies some dangerous precedents beyond what the writers may
>intend.

Which language in pull request 86?

Daniele

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Re: Two proposals for the Django Code of Conduct.

[Daniele Procida]

On Sun, Sep 7, 2014, Benjamin Scherrey  wrote:

>Number 84 sounds fine. #86 is just looking for trouble. You were wise in 84
>to keep it positive and not enumerate a list of "banned" behaviour. To have
>86 be anything beyond providing a weapon to be used by anyone looking to be
>"victimized" in order to silence those whom they disagree with, you would
>have to absolutely list the behaviours you don't want to tolerate. Frankly
>84 is about toleration and acceptance whereas 86 can do nothing but
>increase intolerance ultimately.

The only change of substance in 
 is the addition of one 
sentence:

In addition, violations of this code outside these spaces may affect a 
person's ability to participate within them.

which is the case already - this just makes it explicit.

"May affect" give us plenty of scope for a measured and proportionate response 
- it may just mean we watch them more carefully.

Daniele

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Re: Documentation tool

[Daniele Procida]

On Fri, Sep 5, 2014, Daniel Chimeno  wrote:

>I'm looking for a documentation tool for my django project.
>Something like JavaDoc or PHPDoc, to be able to generate a HTML|PDF with the
>models, views, urls..
>I've used sphinx to non-related Django projects, but I've never tried with 
>Django.

Hi Daniel.

You'll get answers to your questions on the django-users email list, 
 - the web interface is 
. 

The list you've posted to is django-developers, an email list is for the 
discussion of the development of Django itself.

You might also find helpful the #django IRC channel on irc.freenode.net.

Having said that, Sphinx is an excellent tool for DJango docs.

I hope that helps,

Daniele


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Re: Requiring GitHub login for actions on Trac

[Daniele Procida]

On Thu, Aug 7, 2014, Schmitt, Christian  wrote:

>Currently we already live in a world were everything gets connected. And
>that is really awful. One must consider that Github is definitely a target
>for intelligence agencies. And I don't mean the NSA only.
>Maybe I'm a little bit too paranoid but at the current state of the
>internet we shouldn't try to connect everything, just it is easier to login.

The purpose isn't to make it easier to login - it's to make it harder for 
people to flood Trac with spam. Maintaining that is a real pain in the neck. 

This isn't just about convenience, it's about a significant quantity of work 
just to clean up other people's abuse and to keep the system reasonably clean.

If someone has the time and energy to keep Trac free of spam, that would be a 
solution - but I'd prefer to find a solution that didn't waste valuable human 
time and energy.

Daniele

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Re: querry to pass jquery variable value to django template, please responce me need help one of yours...

[Daniele Procida]

On Fri, Aug 1, 2014, Jaiprakash Singh  wrote:

>unfortunately, i am not able find the solution, so require some hints from 
>all of  u guys

You'll get answers to your questions on the django-users email list, 
 - the web interface is 
. 

The list you've posted to is django-developers, an email list is for the 
discussion of the development of Django itself.

You might also find helpful the #django IRC channel on irc.freenode.net.

I hope that helps,

Daniele

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Re: deprecate contrib.webdesign? (#22789)

[Daniele Procida]

On Fri, Jul 11, 2014, Tim Graham  wrote:

>It provides the lorem template tag. The functionality has not changed in 7 
>years and it has 20 commits in its history which are mostly maintenance 
>oriented (pep8, adding app loading compatibility).

As long as it's not getting in anyone's way, and is not imposing a maintenance 
burden, I would simply leave it alone as much as possible.

There's bound to be someone who loves it dearly and uses it regularly. Let's 
not spoil their day!

Daniele

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Re: django less compilation to empty css

[Daniele Procida]

On Wed, Jul 9, 2014, Muneeb Ahmed  wrote:

> I have gone through a no of tutorials but cant able to compile less to css 
>What is the best technique to compile less to css in django. (Static 
>precomiler, yui, e.t.c)

You'll get answers to your questions on the django-users email list, 
 - the web interface is 
. 

The list you've posted to is django-developers, an email list is for the 
discussion of the development of Django itself.

You might also find helpful the #django IRC channel on irc.freenode.net.

I hope that helps,

Daniele


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Re: Problem in doing Calcultion in django Application

[Daniele Procida]

On Wed, Jun 18, 2014, Muskan arora  wrote:

>I have a problem in calculating Sum.
> my models.py is as follows :-

You'll get answers to your questions on the django-users email list, 
 - the web interface is 
. 

The list you've posted to is django-developers, an email list is for the 
discussion of the development of Django itself.

You might also find helpful the #django IRC channel on irc.freenode.net.

I hope that helps,

Daniele

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Re: Ready for checkin

[Daniele Procida]

On Mon, Jun 16, 2014, Greg Chapple  wrote:

>Would "Ready for merge" not be a more appropriate term? 

Well no - because it isn't ready for merge. It may well be far from ready. 
Ironically "ready for checking" is closer to the intended meaning.

Daniele

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Ready for checkin

[Daniele Procida]

"Ready For Check-in" appears in the docs once; "Ready for Checkin" appears five 
times, and on Trac.

Can we change it universally to "Ready for check-in"? Or better "Ready for core 
team review"?

What's wrong with "checkin":

* it's incorrect
* I've more than once read it and imagined it must be a mispelling of "checking"
* it looks like it might be the name of a town in the Balkans

But also it's not immediately obvious what "checkin" (or indeed "check-in") 
means; it sounds like it might involve formally accepting something into the 
system, and so I'd actually prefer something like "Ready for core team review".

Daniele

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Re: Using Exisitng Database on PhpMyAdmin with Python and Django

[Daniele Procida]

On Sat, May 31, 2014, Olouge Eya Ekolle  wrote:

>How can I connect my existing MySQL database created on XAMPP to my 
>Python/Django project? 

You'll get answers to your questions on the django-users email list, 
 - the web interface is 
. 

The list you've posted to is django-developers, an email list is for the 
discussion of the development of Django itself.

You might also find helpful the #django IRC channel on irc.freenode.net.

I hope that helps,

Daniele

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Re: "Master/slave terminology"

[Daniele Procida]

On Tue, May 27, 2014, Andromeda Yelton  wrote:

>Which is a little beside the point as the process for merging PRs is not,
>in fact, democracy.  But is also fantastic, because I've spent the last
>week reading TRAC and hanging out here and talking to lots of people trying
>to figure out if Django will be a safe place for me to contribute.  And
>when I see that large a fraction of commenters come down on the side of
>inclusivity, I feel like "django developer" is a hat I can put on.

If we get a single more person contributing to Django as a result, I would 
consider this whole episode as being entirely worth it.

Not that I think it's a sustainable strategy in the long term, of course.

Daniele

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Re: "Master/slave terminology" (was: Master/slave trolling pull request accepted to django master branch)

[Daniele Procida]

On Tue, May 27, 2014, Meira  wrote:

>> This second commit was discussed in a Trac ticket and everyone (even you!) 
>> was welcome to give their opinion. 
>>
>
>That's all nice and good, but why is the discussion taking the course of 
>whether or not we're accepting the second commit? It is clearly better than 
>the first. The question is, why the first commit was accepted. 

A human being saw the patch, made the judgement in good faith that it should be 
accepted into core, and merged it.

I don't really see why you say that "why" is the question - it doesn't seem a 
very important one.

Daniele

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Re: "Master/slave terminology" (was: Master/slave trolling pull request accepted to django master branch)

[Daniele Procida]

On Tue, May 27, 2014, Meira  wrote:

>Sorry, I accidentally sent a private reply :) I'll try to repeat it here 
>for others.

I have replied, privately, but I wanted to add publicly:

>The community is trying to protect the django project from the attack of 
>people who seek no good for django. Please stop the confrontation, this 
>will not help anyone. The feedback from the community is the most valuable 
>thing django has, do not ignore it.

We won't - I promise. The feedback - even when it's expressed testily or in 
exasperation - is not just appreciated, but received gratefully. The same goes 
for patches or contributions, *including the ones that are not accepted*.

The Django Project and the Django community are not in my mind two different 
things.

>Calling me angry, uncivil, referring to my way of putting things as 
>inappropriate, suggesting that my tone might disengage people - those are 
>signs of your own anger, if I may suggest. I made no assumptions about you 
>personally or any other of the django maintainers, and I would appreciate 
>if you adopt a similar approach.

You are right and I apologise for making those remarks.

Daniele

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"Master/slave terminology" (was: Master/slave trolling pull request accepted to django master branch)

[Daniele Procida]

On Tue, May 27, 2014, Meira  wrote:

>As some of you may have notice, a hot discussion is happening in the 
>comments of this pull request: https://github.com/django/django/pull/2692

If by "hot discussion" you mean silly pictures and noisy accusations...

There is a discussion to be had about this subject, which is why you were 
invited to start one.

You're clearly very angry about it, I don't know why, but if you'd like other 
people to participate in your discussion I suggest you stop making uncivil 
remarks in it - like "trolling" and "insane" - and state your case in a way 
that makes people feel like discussing it with you.

Please understand that if you're not able to moderate your own tone, you will 
not be permitted to post to this email list.

Daniele

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Re: Revisiting multiline tags

[Daniele Procida]

On Thu, Apr 3, 2014, Carl  wrote:

>As someone said earlier in the thread, making Python programmers deal with 
>long lines seems like some special form of torture ;)

My own use case is this:

{% with placeholder_width=960 generic_main_width=523 
sidebar_image_size="294x196" entity_image_size="445x384" 
entity_map_size="445x100" person_map_size="445x100" sidebar_map_size="296x100" 
person_image_size="460x460" person_thumbnail_size="40x40" 
lightbox_max_dimension=600 plugin_thumbnail_size="75x75" 
place_image_size="627x418" place_map_size="294x182" body_heading_level=2 %}

Now that's very horrible to read.

This would be much nicer:

{% with 
placeholder_width=960 
generic_main_width=523 
sidebar_image_size="294x196" 
entity_image_size="445x384" 
entity_map_size="445x100" 
person_map_size="445x100" 
sidebar_map_size="296x100" 
person_image_size="460x460" 
person_thumbnail_size="40x40" 
lightbox_max_dimension=600 
plugin_thumbnail_size="75x75" 
place_image_size="627x418" 
place_map_size="294x182" 
body_heading_level=2 
%}

And yes, there is a good reason for wanting to use {% with %} in this way!

Daniele

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Re: Django admin, 'Save as new' option, duplicate m2m relations

[Daniele Procida]

On Tue, Dec 10, 2013, Gheorghe Chirica  wrote:

>I have a simple model which have few m2m relations.
>
>Now, I enabled option in admin panel to duplicate model so, "Save as new" 
>option.
>
>It saves my model as a new one, no problem  with that.
>
>But I want to duplicate m2m relations I have for original model, so new 
>model will have new m2m relations inserted.
>
>I don't need the new model object to refer the same m2m as original one, 
>because when I "save as new" I change some data
>
>and I need new entries for this m2m relations.
>
>
>Can someone guide me how can i achieve this and where to look for it.

Hi Gheorghe. You'll get answers to your questions on the django-users email 
list,  - the web interface is 
. 

The list you've posted to is django-developers, an email list is for the 
discussion of the development of Django itself.

You might also find helpful the #django IRC channel on irc.freenode.net.

I hope that helps,

Daniele

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Re: How to install Django?

[Daniele Procida]

You'll get answers to your questions on the django-users email list, 
 - the web interface is 
. 

The list you've posted to is django-developers, an email list is for the 
discussion of the development of Django itself.

You might also find helpful the #django IRC channel on irc.freenode.net.

I hope that helps,

Daniele

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Django Weekend Cardiff

[Daniele Procida]

(With apologies if you have already seen this on another email list or 
newsgroup.)

The UK's first-ever Django conference will take place on the 7th-9th February 
2014 in Cardiff, Wales.



The programme for the event:

Friday: tutorials and demonstrations (also open to the public)
Saturday: talks
Sunday: code sprints and clinics

The conference is Django-focused, but all of all aspects of Python fall within 
its remit - particularly in the tutorials and workshops.

A venue has been booked at Cardiff University.

Registration and ticket sales will open soon, as well as a call for papers.

To be a success, the conference needs the support of:

*   people in Wales, the UK and beyond who will participate as attendees or 
volunteers
*   speakers who'd like to give talks or conduct tutorials
*   organisations locally and internationally willing to provide sponsorship or 
other support

If you can offer support in any of these capacities, please get in touch.

One of the aims of the conference is to establish it as an annual event that 
will raise the profile in Wales of open-source software in general and  Python 
in particular, and also bolster the local open-source software community here. 

Above all, however, the intention is to establish the Django Weekend in Cardiff 
as a meaningful and enjoyable date in the Django/Python calendar.

We'll publish updates on our website, our Twitter account 
 and elsewhere as appropriate.

Daniele

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Re: Django-Should I be here?

[Daniele Procida]

On Sun, Nov 3, 2013, zobcl...@gmail.com  wrote:

>I need a web application to do the following:
>
>1. Authenticate a user (approx. 500 users) then show the user a list of 
>registered devices within the servers dhcpd.conf file. 
>
>2. Offer the user the option to delete an existing device.
>
>3. Offer the user the option to add a device 
>  - under this option I would like to set parameters of the dhcpd.conf 
>file in the background to "USER-device-HOSTGROUP" or something of that 
>nature. 
>  - A place for users to enter their MAC addresses
>
>4. and finally submit their request. Upon submit, the request would be 
>aggregated as per the parameters, appended to the dhcpd.conf file, and the 
>isc-dhcpd-server would be reset "applying" the changes 
>requested.
>
>Is Django the place for me, using python?

Yes, there's no reason you couldn't use Django to write such a web application, 
especially if you already have some familiarity with Python. 

I suggest starting with the Django tutorial: 
 which will quickly 
give you an idea of how several parts of your project might be tackled using 
Django.

You'll get answers to your questions on the django-users email list, 
 - the web interface is 
. 

The list you've posted to is django-developers, an email list is for the 
discussion of the development of Django itself.

You might also find helpful the #django IRC channel on irc.freenode.net.

I hope that helps,

Daniele

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Re: Want create patch for smth

[Daniele Procida]

On Thu, Oct 31, 2013, Dmitriy Dmitrienko  wrote:

>My name is Dmitry. I want to create patches for smth , because in my 
>university a teacher wants to create patches for the Moodle system, but i 
>hate moodle and i don't have a choice and it's wrong.
>I am not genius of programming, but i was write two project on django.
>P.S. Not start project from documentation of django :)
>
>Have you got any issues to help me? :)

Hi Dmitriy.

Take a look at the Django issue tracker, .

You might prefer to start with tickets marked as "easy pickings": 
.

If you haven't done so already, you'll need to read the documentation on 
contributing  
and especially 
.

As well as this list, there's the #django-dev channel on irc.freenode.net for 
discussing development of Django.

Thanks,

Daniele

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Re: When to use single quotes and double quotes

[Daniele Procida]

On Sun, Oct 27, 2013, Zach Borboa  wrote:

>I'm seeing a mix of both singly- and doubly-quoted strings in django source.
>Other than docstrings wrapped in triple-double-quotes, when is it 
>appropriate
>to use double quotes instead single quotes?

As far as I understand it doesn't make any difference in Python, but apart from 
cases where what you use is dictated by the context (for example, a string with 
an apostrophe in it needs double quotes) I've wondered the same myself about 
what's preferred in Django.

Should our documentation examples prefer one rather over the other?

Daniele

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Re: Creating a minimal custom user model. Seems last_login is required. Should it be?

[Daniele Procida]

On Mon, Oct 21, 2013, Tino de Bruijn  wrote:

>@Harry, just out of curiosity, may I ask how you *do* authenticate your
>users?

I think he challenges them to a sword fight with rolled-up umbrellas.

Daniele

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Re: Creating a minimal custom user model. Seems last_login is required. Should it be?

[Daniele Procida]

On Sun, Oct 20, 2013, Harry Percival  wrote:

>I'm trying to create a minimal custom user model.  The only thing I care 
>about is email.  But it seems Django really wants me to set a last_login 
>field.  Can I avoid it somehow?
>
>I don't care about last_login!  Can this be circumvented?  Should that 
>signal be optional, or gracefully handle the case where the user model has 
>no last_login field?  Should I log this as a bug?

I can reproduce this. I can't think of a good reason why a User absolutely must 
have a last_login, so please raise a ticket.

You're probably aware already, but the User model as provided here also breaks 
the superuser creating process called by syncdb. It doesn't ask for a username, 
and goes straight to asking for an email address, at which point it raises an 
error: AttributeError: 'Manager' object has no attribute 'get_by_natural_key'. 
I don't know if you were expecting that.

The full traceback is .

Daniele

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Re: Django logo usage terms self-contradiction

[Daniele Procida]

On Fri, Oct 18, 2013, Russell Keith-Magee  wrote:

>Thanks for the heads up. The first piece of text you've indicated predates
>the second, so it needed to be updated. I've just made the change.
>
>As for there being no Section 3.1 -- I'm not sure what you're referring to
>here. I can see a Section 3 that contains 2 subsections, numbered 1 and 2;
>section 3.1 has 6 subclauses 3.1.1-3.1.6.

That's changed! 

Earlier today there was no list marker "1." for the  "You may incorporate 
the Django name into the name of any group or event, provided that:"

Maybe the re-rendering of the page restored it.

Daniele

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Django logo usage terms self-contradiction

[Daniele Procida]

"Additional text may not be added so that it appears to be part of the logo."

 section 3.2:

"A group or event may use a logo that incorporates the Django logo by adding a 
word or picture [...]"

Also, there appears to be no section 3.1 on the latter page.

Daniele

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Re: Help related executing system command from django

[Daniele Procida]

On Thu, Oct 17, 2013, Jorge Cardoso Leitão  wrote:

>I suggest you to post your question in the django-users mailing list.
>This mailing list is for the development of Django itself.

The django-users list can be found at 
.

The #django IRC channel on IRC (on irc.freenode.net) is also very helpful.

Daniele

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Re: An argument against mark_safe.

[Daniele Procida]

On Wed, Oct 16, 2013, Jonathan Slenders  wrote:

>Some people still have javascript in their templates and they use template 
>tags inside their javascript. :(

I am not sure if you're saying this is a bad thing, but it is unavoidable, 
isn't it? For example I use the Google Maps API, and I don't know of any other 
way to generate the map items dynamically than to build some of the JS for it 
using template tags. Is there a problem doing it like this, and is there a 
better way?

Daniele

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Re: ImportError: cannot import name actions

[Daniele Procida]

On Tue, Oct 15, 2013, rok  wrote:

>I thought since the 1.6 release is in the final stretch this might be 
>somewhat related to bugfixing. I posted it to the users forum.

Well it could indeed be a bug of course. Is it feasible for your to reduce it 
to something easily reproducible?

Daniele

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Re: ImportError: cannot import name actions

[Daniele Procida]

On Tue, Oct 15, 2013, rok  wrote:

>I have recently been testing the 1.6b4 tag with a new app we are
>writing, using apache and wsgi. However, I could not get rid of the
>following issue happening on every request:

You'll be better off asking this question over on the Django users email list, 
rather than here (this list is for the development of Django itself, rather 
than general usage or deployment questions).

You can sign up to the django-users list at 
.

The #django IRC channel on IRC (on irc.freenode.net) is also very helpful.

Daniele

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Re: Nginx and Ubuntu Service Define

[Daniele Procida]

On Mon, Oct 14, 2013, Muhammed TÜFEKYAPAN  wrote:

>I use digitalocean as a server. I upload my django project files on my 
>server and start to setup. Made postgresql settings etc but I can't define 
>my new project as a new service on nginx. How can I define my new projest 
>as a service and make possible to start it as "service blabla start". 
>
>When I type "service --stat?s-all" I can't see my new project now. 

Hi Muhammed. Your best bet for an answer is the django-users email list, 
 - the web interface is 
. 

The django-developers email list is for the discussion of Django itself.

You might also find helpful the #django IRC channel on irc.freenode.net, and 
the #nginx channel is helpful too but I am not sure if that's where your 
solution will lie.

Good luck!



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Re: Introduction

[Daniele Procida]

On Sat, Oct 12, 2013, Jasvir Singh  wrote:

>I am Jasvir Singh, a student of Computer Science.
>5-6 months ago, I started working on django and found it is a really
>efficient tool.
>Now I want to do some development for django.
>
>Can anyone please suggest me some task/project to do.

Hi Jasvir. If you'd like to contribute to Django itself, why not have a look at 
the ticket tracker: ?

In particular you might want to choose something straightforward to begin with, 
so look for tickets marked as "easy pickings": 
.

>May I start with making some video tutorials, in which I'll explain
>how to make a poll or blog application?

That too could be a valuable contribution to the community, though it will 
probably be more work, and will probably benefit fewer people.

You have probably already done so, but if not, take a look at 


Regards,

Daniele

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Re: Proposal to end the war with flake8 warnings

[Daniele Procida]

On Wed, Oct 9, 2013, Tim Graham  wrote:

>Our docs currently state: "Note, however, that patches which only remove 
>whitespace (or only make changes for nominal PEP 8 conformance) are likely 
>to be rejected, since they only introduce noise rather than code 
>improvement. Tidy up when you're next changing code in the area." I 
>somewhat disagree, I think it's better to make cleanups in separate commits 
>so that when looking at a commit, you don't need to figure out what changes 
>are stylistic and what changes are needed for the fix.

I certainly agree with this.

Daniele

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Re: Design discussion: admin alert messages

[Daniele Procida]

On Tue, Oct 8, 2013, Ryan Allen  wrote:

>Good thought, I'll get some color test screenshots put together today.

I've used  which I thought was quite good, but 
perhaps you know of better ones.

Daniele

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IRC users invited to support PyCon Ireland Django sprinters

[Daniele Procida]

I'm running a "Don't be afraid to commit workshop" at PyCon Ireland. The 
sprints will be on 14th to 15th October - 
.

Last time it worked brilliantly well having a few active people in 
#django-sprint. If anyone can be around for the next one, that would be 
wonderful.

Thanks,

Daniele

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A policy on calling super()

[Daniele Procida]

There's some discussion of a particular class, django.views.base.View, and 
whether its __init__() should contain a super(View, self).__init__().

But there's also a wider question of whether there should be a general rule 
about this, whether the integrity of the __init__() chain should be maintained, 
and whether it matters that not all of our classes that are likely to be 
subclassed do it.

Any comments?

Daniele

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Re: Hyperlink CSS on djangoproject.com

[Daniele Procida]

On Tue, Sep 24, 2013, Marc Tamlyn  wrote:

>As someone who has color blindness (off the top of my head I can't remember
>the exact condition, but it's not simple red-green that 1 in 8 men have) it
>looks fine to me. Personally I like the distinction between the external
>and internal links.

It's not so much between internal and external links, but between links to 
documentation topics (orange, not underlined) and links to Django objects 
(green, underlined).

>My guidance for people is generally that if you aren't using the actual
>colour to denote meaning (eg Red is bad), and the colours still appear
>different in monochrome, then chances are everyone can see it OK. Maybe not
>as clear as you, but OK enough.

Yes, the contrast between links and documentation topics links (i.e. not 
underlined) seems OK, even though they are less obviously links.

Daniele

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Hyperlink CSS on djangoproject.com

[Daniele Procida]

On djangoproject.com and the docs in particular, we don't underline hyperlinks, 
though we do, with dots, if it's a hyperlink to a class or function or module.

That means users need to rely on the colour of the text to determine whether 
something is a link or not. 

It works fine for me, but I don't know how well it will work for colourblind 
users (I tested it using a simulator - 

 and it wasn't actually too bad in that).

Is there any reason not to have all links underlined, in the interestes of 
improved accessibility?

Daniele

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Re: IRC users invited to support PyCon UK Django sprinters

[Daniele Procida]

On Mon, Sep 23, 2013, Daniele Procida <dani...@vurt.org> wrote:

>At the Don't be afraid to commit workshop at PyCon UK today there were a
>lot of attendees <http://dont-be-afraid-to-commit.readthedocs.org/en/
>latest/attendance_record.html#pycon-uk-in-coventry-22nd-september-2013>
>(31 of them). 
>
>Many of them said they'd come to the Django sprint tomorrow (Monday 23rd
>September), which runs 1000-1230 and 1330-1600 UTC+1. 
>
>If anyone can be in #django-sprint to help out that would be very nice indeed.

I just want to say thanks to everyone who helped the sprinters (or even just 
popped in to say hello) on IRC, but especially Tim Graham, who was there 
throughout the day and really helped make it a success.

It was an excellent sprint. We had 14 people involved, and I think all of them 
were were first-time Django contributors. Several were people who had very 
little experience of this at all (many installed Git and set up GitHub accounts 
for the first time yesterday in the workshop), but today several pull requests 
were made and merged:

<https://github.com/django/django/commit/c81b6f7b834da8d8fbcf679679ce158173df3a05>
 
<https://github.com/django/django/commit/98e0453f00958af63b50e70990903eb6a04e1933>
<https://github.com/django/django/commit/6a30075eaa52b3d91665195a34901ac450df5bbb>
<https://github.com/django/django/commit/a53caf28bf2ab29cf4e78a968b3887ddb6d6e83d>
<https://github.com/django/django/commit/41167645b1039067127fa215d4d28296bfa4cfdc>
<https://github.com/django/django/commit/e15f7f31d048ead5453b5ee810235cf88b42b3cc>

there's one open pull request:

<https://github.com/django/django/pull/1662>

and I think a couple more people at least are still working on theirs.

Having friendly strangers on hand in the IRC channels made their first 
impressions of the Django community a very good one. There was a very positive 
(and excited, once people started getting close to making pull requests) vibe 
at our table, and some of the sprinters were beaming with delight after their 
pull requests were merged.

I was taken aback when I saw how many people had turned up for the workshop on 
Sunday 
(<http://dont-be-afraid-to-commit.readthedocs.org/en/latest/attendance_record.html#pycon-uk-in-coventry-22nd-september-2013>
 - over 30 of them), but in fact I think it was the most successful one so far.

Daniele

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IRC users invited to support PyCon UK Django sprinters

[Daniele Procida]

At the Don't be afraid to commit workshop at PyCon UK today there were a lot of 
attendees 

 (31 of them). 

Many of them said they'd come to the Django sprint tomorrow (Monday 23rd 
September), which runs 1000-1230 and 1330-1600 UTC+1. 

If anyone can be in #django-sprint to help out that would be very nice indeed.

Thanks,

Daniele

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Re: Performance Docs

[Daniele Procida]

On Fri, Sep 20, 2013, Alex Gaynor  wrote:

>I didn't follow this PR as it was in progress, but I just sat down and read
>them. I have to say I'm extremely saddened by
>https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/performance/#alternative-
>software-implementations.

See if  is less 
saddening then.

If not, can you suggest something that would work in the context of a document 
that's really intended to be an overview for users not already experienced in 
these matters (and in particular, ones who may be tempted to think "Python's 
slow! I need something faster").

Daniele

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Re: Performance optimisation documents, ticket 20877

[Daniele Procida]

On Fri, Sep 13, 2013, Florian Apolloner <f.apollo...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, September 13, 2013 4:18:05 PM UTC+2, Daniele Procida wrote:
>>
>> Any further comments would be welcomed. There's some disagreement about 
>> the appropriateness of the last section, <
>> https://github.com/django/django/pull/1463/files#L5R318> so it would be 
>> particularly usefukl to have some further opinion on that. 
>>
>
>Personally I'd remove it completely for the following reasons:
> * Especially newcomers tend to think that they need the most performant 
>system
)
> * This dual-import of libraries where you try to select the most 
>"efficient" versions quite often results in issues for those versions which 
>didn't get used by the developer

I've re-written that section now to emphasise the caveats and the need to 
verify improvements, and to de-emphasise the prospect of exciting perfromance 
gains.

Daniele

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Re: Performance optimisation documents, ticket 20877

[Daniele Procida]

On Sat, Aug 10, 2013, Daniele Procida <dani...@vurt.org> wrote:

><https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/20877>
>
>Work in progress; comments appreciated: 
><https://github.com/django/django/pull/1463>

Any further comments would be welcomed. There's some disagreement about the 
appropriateness of the last section, 
<https://github.com/django/django/pull/1463/files#L5R318> so it would be 
particularly usefukl to have some further opinion on that.

Daniele

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Re: GZipMiddleWare documentation

[Daniele Procida]

On Fri, Aug 9, 2013, Daniele Procida <dani...@vurt.org> wrote:

>What should the documents have to say on the subject now, in light of
><https://www.djangoproject.com/weblog/2013/aug/06/breach-and-django/>?
>
><https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/20887>

I'm rasising this issue again, because our documentation still suggests using 
GZipMiddleware and doesn't offer any warnings; I'd submit a pull request 
updating the documents, but I don't know enough about the subject to know what 
it should actually say.

Daniele

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Re: Django Trac ticket keywords

[Daniele Procida]

On Fri, Aug 30, 2013, Russell Keith-Magee  wrote:

> Is "afraid to commit" a different set of criteria to "easy pickings"? The
>original intention was that the easy pickings checkbox would be populated
>with tickets that were appropriate for first timers (because they were
>relatively simple in scope).

Yes - it's something like "really incredibly easy pickings"!

Some of them are even slightly artificial, things that one wouldn't normally 
raise a ticket for - a typo in the documentation for example - but having a 
ticket makes it easy for someone to go through the whole issue-fixing workflow 
without running into complications when they do it for the first time.

Daniele

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Re: version number in Django documentation URLs

[Daniele Procida]

On Fri, Aug 30, 2013, Baptiste Mispelon <bmispe...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 08/30/2013 12:10 AM, Daniele Procida wrote:
>> RTFD.org can use "latest" for the version number in docs - why don't we?
>>
>> It would be nice to be able to refer for example to <https://
>docs.djangoproject.com/en/latest/internals/release-process/>.

>https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/stable/internals/release-process/ 
>works, but I'm not sure that it's documented anywhere.

Yes, that's exactly what I was looking for, thanks!

Would it be possible to add "beta" too, or would that always be the same as 
"dev" anyway?

Daniele

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Django Trac ticket keywords

[Daniele Procida]

Would there be any objection if I used a keyword ("afraid_to_commit" or 
something) to mark tickets that I think would be suitable for first-time 
committers doing the "Don't be afraid to commit" tutorial to tackle?

That way I can provide a URL like:



that is always likely to return some suitable tickets.

Daniele

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version number in Django documentation URLs

[Daniele Procida]

RTFD.org can use "latest" for the version number in docs - why don't we?

It would be nice to be able to refer for example to 
.

Daniele

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