Re: DEP 0008 (Formatting using Black) is accepted
I'm disappointed to learn that this was merged without a healthy debate on the deps repo. On Friday, May 10, 2019 at 8:53:44 PM UTC-5, Andrew Godwin wrote: > > One quick clarification - when I said "stable (1.0)" release, I in fact > meant the first release that the Black project officially marks as stable. > > Black doesn't use versioning that would result in a stable release being > called 1.0, as far as I know, given they are on 19.3b0 right now! > > Andrew > > On Friday, May 10, 2019 at 6:46:37 PM UTC-7, Andrew Godwin wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> The Technical Board has voted on DEP 0008 ( >> https://github.com/django/deps/blob/master/accepted/0008-black.rst), >> after the extensive discussion here and the updates done as a result. >> >> The board voted in favour, and so I've moved the DEP into the accepted >> directory. >> >> One of the key changes to the proposal was to wait until Black got to a >> stable (1.0) release, so it will sit in "accepted" until that happens, at >> which point we will do the implementation (including the big reformat >> itself) and then move the DEP to "final". >> >> There's no hard timeline on when Black will hit a stable release, but >> it's very close; there are a few changes we'd like to make sure are >> included when we reformat Django, such as keeping lists with trailing >> commas on multiple lines (https://github.com/python/black/pull/826). >> That's why we're waiting for the stable release rather than reformatting >> now. >> >> Thanks to everyone who chimed in on the discussion - this was not an easy >> decision, and the feedback helped a lot to work out what was best for us. >> >> I also want to personally thank Herman Schistad, for prompting this >> discussion, and Aymeric Augustin, for his work on writing and updating the >> DEP! >> >> Yours in auto-formatting, >> Andrew >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to django-developers@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/django-developers. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/8f6f5de0-f489-4271-9c2e-af3b0a97f365%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Potential suspension of Channels development
Hi Andrew RE: > I feel, is that is solves the wrong problem - it's focused on WebSockets, > which is a niche feature that a few people are happy we provide but most > people have no practical use for. > To me, Websockets is the defining use case for using Django Channels. From a user POV, saying that Channels is focused on the wrong problem (websockets) is like saying Django is too focused on HTTP. When I have selected Channels (vs other tools), my rationale was not: "*I need a general purpose async platform and it would be great if it worked with Websockets, ZeromQ and played nice with Django...*" (therefore Django Channels vs Tornado vs ...) rather my rationale is more like: "*I need to build real time features with Websockets using Django..*" (therefore Django Channels). On Sunday, January 20, 2019 at 5:27:39 PM UTC-6, Andrew Godwin wrote: > > > > On Sat, Jan 19, 2019 at 12:13 PM Carlton Gibson > wrote: > >> Hey Andrew. >> >> I've been thinking a lot about this. You clearly shouldn't be maintaining >> Channels single-handedly indefinitely. >> >> I know Channels started out separately, but, it's time to think about >> what, if anything of channels, is to be brought into core, or become THE >> WAY we do things or... Yes, we need more hands, but there's a bunch of >> people who can help out, and at least part of the problem is your out there >> in the wings by yourself (with not much visibility.) >> >> Q: How does Channels fit into the "Django Async Roadmap"? >> >> To the extent that it does, I think there's a case for asking the board >> and the DSF more widely to throw everything we've got behind making sure >> it's properly resourced. >> > > The main problem with Channels, I feel, is that is solves the wrong > problem - it's focused on WebSockets, which is a niche feature that a few > people are happy we provide but most people have no practical use for. > > Instead, I think Django should focus on a good async path for HTTP - > views, ORM, templates, and the like. This is what I want to get done if I > can get my time and energy back! > > >> I presume you DON'T offer support on the issue tracker, and point people >> to other channels? I'd be happy to "straight-bat" obvious tickets away. >> (Michael's offer to recieve is valuable there.) >> > > I do try to do this - I wrote a standard page last year to help out with > batting away (https://channels.readthedocs.io/en/latest/support.html) - > but sometimes it's hard to triage the bug from the support request. Your > help there would be most appreciated, and yes, I should add Michael's offer > to that support page. > > >> >> "...and weird WebSocket client bugs." >> >> Can I ask you to explain what you mean there? (Point to a ticket maybe.) >> What kind of query do you get? Is there a particular knack to working out >> if it's a valid bug or not? (Or is it apparent?) >> > > I don't want to single anyone out, as it's not their fault, but bugs like > this: https://github.com/django/daphne/issues/244 > > This person did the work and figured it out for the most part, but lots of > bugs that complex and confusing come in with just the first part of the > issue and I'm left wondering if it's their browser, their server, their > Python install or actually Channels. > > At some point, I wake up every morning to 5-6 emails from the various > projects and it overwhelms, as I'm sure you've encountered. Even the bugs > are nasty enough that I don't feel like fixing them once I've figured out > they're actually bugs. > > >> >> Thanks for all you work here. Legend. >> > > And thank you for your response and help :) > > Andrew > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to django-developers@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/django-developers. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/699c6cf1-7747-421b-bd73-a2b3665b2e17%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Potential suspension of Channels development
Hi Andrew, We have a pretty active Django channel in our Slack group if you would like to direct all support requests there in the meantime. Many of us including myself are using Django Channels in production can help with basic support questions. Take care of yourself and thanks for everything you've already done! https://pyslackers.com/ On Thursday, January 17, 2019 at 12:07:06 PM UTC-6, Andrew Godwin wrote: > > Hi all, > > I'm writing to you all to update you on the current situation of Channels > and related libraries (channels-redis and Daphne) and potentially ask for > help. > > I've been the sole maintainer of these projects for quite a while and it > has become unsustainable - all of my energy is taken up fielding issues and > support requests and I haven't been able to even get myself to start > looking at Django async stuff because of it. > > Given that, if nobody else can step forward to take over, I'll have to put > those three projects (Channels, channels-redis, and Daphne) into an > explicit maintenance mode where they only accept security requests via the > normal security@ route, and start the process of retiring them as active > Django projects, as I don't want to give the impression they're still > maintained if they're not. > > (note: the asgiref project is still fine and should probably move out of > Django to its own effort at some point giving the growing set of ASGI tools) > > If people are willing to take over maintenance, I'm happy to help explain > some things but I don't have the bandwidth to bring someone completely up > from scratch, so I can't help mentor someone who is totally new to > maintaining open-source Python (sorry!). > > Once I recover a bit from the burnout I'll be able to come back and help > with the really complex bugs; the main thing I need out of is the seemingly > endless support requests and weird WebSocket client bugs. > > My personal deadline for this is two weeks, on February 1st. If you want > to help out, please feel free to reply either here or get in touch with me > personally to chat about what's involved. > > Andrew > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to django-developers@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/django-developers. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/c14ad575-d72f-4e0e-910c-60afea1b7d4c%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
