subject:"\[Django\] #26337\: Translations \- No fallback used if requesting english variant"

#26337: Translations - No fallback used if requesting english variant
-+-
 Reporter:  cristianocca |Owner:  nobody
 Type:   |   Status:  closed
  Cleanup/optimization   |
Component:  Documentation|  Version:  1.9
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:  fixed
 Keywords:  i18n translations| Triage Stage:  Ready for
  english|  checkin
Has patch:  1|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  0|UI/UX:  0
-+-

Comment (by Claude Paroz ):

 In [changeset:"5641a80d49d31916828ef7478af1800d0469c46a" 5641a80]:
 {{{
 #!CommitTicketReference repository=""
 revision="5641a80d49d31916828ef7478af1800d0469c46a"
 [1.10.x] Fixed #26337 -- Added i18n note about using a non-English base
 language

 Thanks Cristiano Coelho for the report and Tim Graham for the review.
 Backport of f6fefbf8cb from master.
 }}}

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Re: [Django] #26337: Translations - No fallback used if requesting english variant

#26337: Translations - No fallback used if requesting english variant
-+-
 Reporter:  cristianocca |Owner:  nobody
 Type:   |   Status:  closed
  Cleanup/optimization   |
Component:  Documentation|  Version:  1.9
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:  fixed
 Keywords:  i18n translations| Triage Stage:  Ready for
  english|  checkin
Has patch:  1|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  0|UI/UX:  0
-+-
Changes (by Claude Paroz ):

 * status:  new => closed
 * resolution:   => fixed


Comment:

 In [changeset:"f6fefbf8cb0f44126adcd052916bca4b872c565a" f6fefbf]:
 {{{
 #!CommitTicketReference repository=""
 revision="f6fefbf8cb0f44126adcd052916bca4b872c565a"
 Fixed #26337 -- Added i18n note about using a non-English base language

 Thanks Cristiano Coelho for the report and Tim Graham for the review.
 }}}

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Re: [Django] #26337: Translations - No fallback used if requesting english variant

#26337: Translations - No fallback used if requesting english variant
-+-
 Reporter:  cristianocca |Owner:  nobody
 Type:   |   Status:  new
  Cleanup/optimization   |
Component:  Documentation|  Version:  1.9
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  i18n translations| Triage Stage:  Ready for
  english|  checkin
Has patch:  1|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  0|UI/UX:  0
-+-
Changes (by timgraham):

 * stage:  Accepted => Ready for checkin


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Re: [Django] #26337: Translations - No fallback used if requesting english variant

#26337: Translations - No fallback used if requesting english variant
-+-
 Reporter:  cristianocca |Owner:  nobody
 Type:   |   Status:  new
  Cleanup/optimization   |
Component:  Documentation|  Version:  1.9
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  i18n translations| Triage Stage:  Accepted
  english|
Has patch:  1|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  0|UI/UX:  0
-+-
Changes (by claudep):

 * has_patch:  0 => 1


Comment:

 [https://github.com/django/django/pull/6688 PR]

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Re: [Django] #26337: Translations - No fallback used if requesting english variant

2016-03-11 Thread Django

#26337: Translations - No fallback used if requesting english variant
-+-
 Reporter:  cristianocca |Owner:  nobody
 Type:   |   Status:  new
  Cleanup/optimization   |
Component:  Documentation|  Version:  1.9
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  i18n translations| Triage Stage:  Accepted
  english|
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  0|UI/UX:  0
-+-

Comment (by cristianocca):

 I think that's good, and will clear any doubt of "Why I am not getting my
 texts translated" when it happens.

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Re: [Django] #26337: Translations - No fallback used if requesting english variant

2016-03-11 Thread Django

#26337: Translations - No fallback used if requesting english variant
-+-
 Reporter:  cristianocca |Owner:  nobody
 Type:   |   Status:  new
  Cleanup/optimization   |
Component:  Documentation|  Version:  1.9
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  i18n translations| Triage Stage:  Accepted
  english|
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  0|UI/UX:  0
-+-

Comment (by claudep):

 Thanks, that use case is much more realistic!

 I would suggest to add the following paragraphs under
 https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.9/topics/i18n/translation
 /#implementation-notes :
 {{{
 Non-English base language
 -

 Django makes the general assumption that the original strings in a
 translatable
 project are written in English.
 You can choose another language, but you must be aware of certain
 limitations:

 * ``gettext`` only provide two plural forms for the original messages, so
 you
   will need to also provide a translation for the base language to include
 all
   plural forms if the plural rules for the base language are different
 from
   English.

 * When an English variant is activated and English strings are missing,
 the
   fallback language will not be the :setting:`LANGUAGE_CODE` of the
 project,
   but the original strings. For example, an English user visiting a site
 which
   default language is Spanish and original strings are written in Russian
 will
   fallback to Russian, not to Spanish.
 }}}
 Thoughts?

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Re: [Django] #26337: Translations - No fallback used if requesting english variant

Comment (by cristianocca):

Hmmm, what about the use case where your msgids are in a different
language than your default language setting? This is pretty much the
reason of the hardcoded english for django.

Example again:

- default language = spanish
- msgids language = russian (russian developers making an spanish site)
- requested language = english, if you don't have an english
catalog/translation you expect to fall into the default language (as it
would with any other language that's not english).
- Actual result --> russian msgids rather than spanish translated values
because default language is never loaded.

Perhaps there can be a simplified note, something like: "Keep in mind that
due to certain framework limitations, when an english variant is
requested, it will not load the default language and will end up returning
msgids if a catalog or translation is not available"

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Re: [Django] #26337: Translations - No fallback used if requesting english variant

#26337: Translations - No fallback used if requesting english variant
-+-
 Reporter:  cristianocca |Owner:  nobody
 Type:   |   Status:  new
  Cleanup/optimization   |
Component:  Documentation|  Version:  1.9
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  i18n translations| Triage Stage:  Accepted
  english|
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  0|UI/UX:  0
-+-

Comment (by claudep):

 Replying to [comment:7 cristianocca]:
 > Example (high level, no actual code)
 >
 > - using message ids that are actually codes rather than text, but can be
 done with any case where the actual msgstr is not always the same as msgid
 for your default language (another example, if you do not use unicode
 characters as msgids for some reason like not wanting unicode on python
 code strings, so you always need the msgstr value even for default
 language for translations that have unicode characters)
 (...)

 I'm not convinced by either use case, having codes as msgid is IMHO very
 bad practice, and avoiding Unicode is a thing from the past. I really need
 a legitimate use case to accept this.

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Re: [Django] #26337: Translations - No fallback used if requesting english variant

#26337: Translations - No fallback used if requesting english variant
-+-
 Reporter:  cristianocca |Owner:  nobody
 Type:   |   Status:  new
  Cleanup/optimization   |
Component:  Documentation|  Version:  1.9
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  i18n translations| Triage Stage:  Accepted
  english|
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  0|UI/UX:  0
-+-

Comment (by cristianocca):

 Example (high level, no actual code)

 - using message ids that are actually codes rather than text, but can be
 done with any case where the actual msgstr is not always the same as msgid
 for your default language (another example, if you do not use unicode
 characters as msgids for some reason like not wanting unicode on python
 code strings, so you always need the msgstr value even for default
 language for translations that have unicode characters)

 - default language = 'en-gb'

 - translations: en-gb = { 'BUTTON_1':'Colour', 'BUTTON_2':'Monday'}, en-us
 = { 'BUTTON_1':'Color', 'BUTTON_2':''} (note how I'm lazy and I don't
 translate the BUTTON_2 msgid because 'Monday' is the same in every
 language variant so I'm ok by falling to default.

 - Client requests the 'en-gb' translation, woops it starts with 'en' so it
 won't load your default language as fallback and you never get the actual
 BUTTON_2 translation, when requested you end up with the ugly msgid.

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Re: [Django] #26337: Translations - No fallback used if requesting english variant

#26337: Translations - No fallback used if requesting english variant
-+-
 Reporter:  cristianocca |Owner:  nobody
 Type:   |   Status:  new
  Cleanup/optimization   |
Component:  Documentation|  Version:  1.9
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  i18n translations| Triage Stage:  Accepted
  english|
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  0|UI/UX:  0
-+-

Comment (by claudep):

 Not convinced :-/
 Would it be possible to provide a concrete example of what you try to
 explain, with real strings and real languages?

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Re: [Django] #26337: Translations - No fallback used if requesting english variant

#26337: Translations - No fallback used if requesting english variant
-+-
 Reporter:  cristianocca |Owner:  nobody
 Type:   |   Status:  new
  Cleanup/optimization   |
Component:  Documentation|  Version:  1.9
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  i18n translations| Triage Stage:  Accepted
  english|
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  0|UI/UX:  0
-+-

Comment (by cristianocca):

 Hi, I’m not really good at writing but here’s an attempt.

 I would put some note somewhere starting from here, probably after msgid
 and msgstr definitions:
 https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/i18n/translation/#message-
 files

 “Due to certain limitations of the GNU gettext toolset, English have a
 special treatment. Make sure all your English (and variants) translation
 files correctly define a msgstr value and do not rely on your default
 language as fallback, or you may experience unexpected results such as
 msgid being returned rather than the default language msgstr (which might
 or not be the expected result).”

 Would that work, makes any sense at all?

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Re: [Django] #26337: Translations - No fallback used if requesting english variant

#26337: Translations - No fallback used if requesting english variant
-+-
 Reporter:  cristianocca |Owner:  nobody
 Type:   |   Status:  new
  Cleanup/optimization   |
Component:  Documentation|  Version:  1.9
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  i18n translations| Triage Stage:  Accepted
  english|
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  0|UI/UX:  0
-+-
Changes (by timgraham):

 * component:  Internationalization => Documentation
 * type:  Bug => Cleanup/optimization
 * stage:  Unreviewed => Accepted


Comment:

 Could you propose some draft text?

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Re: [Django] #26337: Translations - No fallback used if requesting english variant

#26337: Translations - No fallback used if requesting english variant
-+-
 Reporter:  cristianocca |Owner:  nobody
 Type:  Bug  |   Status:  new
Component:   |  Version:  1.9
  Internationalization   |
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  i18n translations| Triage Stage:
  english|  Unreviewed
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  0|UI/UX:  0
-+-

Comment (by cristianocca):

 You are right about it being a corner case, but I think it should be at
 least mentioned in the docs and a recomendation about always having
 translation values.

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Re: [Django] #26337: Translations - No fallback used if requesting english variant