Re: An alternate cry for help

[Bill Freeman]

I used pinax for a project several years ago.  I did not enjoy it, but
maybe it has gotten better.  Its focus, as I understood it, was to provide
a collection of apps that implemented one group's idea of a full featured
social site, and which had been tweaked to work together.  The client
required lots of specialization, and I don't think that pinax decreased my
workload.

sphene is another approach to getting a set of pre-packaged, work together
"social" tools.  I was slightly happier with sphene than with pinax, but
that still doesn't constitute and endorsement.

Folks have gotten much better, when publishing individual django apps,
about making them independent of what other apps you are using.  Putting a
site together with a few independent pip installs, and maybe writing an app
or two yourself is likely to be a more satisfying experience for most of
us.  It is also probable that if you like one or more of the apps that
pinax bolts together, that you can probably install it independent of the
overall pinax system.  (sphene does some inter app communication using
middleware, so it's parts may be less separable from the group.)

Bill

On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd] <
cal.leem...@simplicitymedialtd.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi Christos,
>
> I cannot comment directly on Pinax as I have never used it before, however
> I can give some general comments.
>
> Asking how to make a social network is the same as asking how to make a
> game, how to build a car, how to write a book etc.. it *completely* depends
> on what your end goal is, and how deep down the rabbit hole you want to go.
>
> If your end goal is to better your development skills in Python, then you
> could start out with something like this;
> http://learnpythonthehardway.org/
>
> If this is not your end goal, then you will have certain limitation. For
> example, I could use (CMS FRAMEWORK HERE) to make a very basic blog with
> zero programming skill, but extending the functionality would require
> either a pre-existing plugin, or time being spent on learning the framework
> and language.. I could possibly throw together a very quick hack, or spend
> X amount of time learning every little bit about what I'm doing.
>
> An excellent place to start looking would be on github, there are plenty
> of projects you could use for inspiration/examples to get you started.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Cal
>
> On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 7:28 AM, Christos Jonathan Hayward <
> christos.jonathan.hayw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I wrote earlier asking if someone could correct my ignorance to go from
>> Pinax building blocks to a working site. Since then, I searched Safari, and
>> found five references to Pinax, at
>> http://my.safaribooksonline.com/search?q=Pinax . One is a tangent in a
>> Django book I wrote; three are Python books I didn't write; and one is an
>> iPhone JavaScript book that includes 'pinax' in a Greek-English lexicon's
>> URL.
>>
>> I realized after posting the original post below that although I'm an
>> avid learner my ignorance of Pinax may be a bit of a challenge to
>> straighten out. So besides the possibility of educating me to really know
>> how to put Pinax sites together, could someone preassemble a complete
>> social site that just needs database setup, a syncdb, and a gunicorn
>> invocation? It would be nice to have the earlier Pinax Social Project
>> reimplemented using the new tools, as opposed to the pinax-social-project
>> which is a set of building blocks to complete a social project. It seems
>> the general approach is to turn over better and better building blocks to
>> the user, but the already-working sensible default has its merits, and I'd
>> appreciate those merits after a day of struggling with old Pinax, new
>> Pinax, borrowed Pinax, blue Pinax, not getting any responses with good
>> learning resources, and searching Safari and recognizing that O'Reilly's
>> whole Safari does not contain as much information about Pinax as the email
>> you are reading, not enough by half, and that kind of makes my ignorance a
>> less changeable condition. If I'm ignorant about Django but have the Django
>> documentation and the Django book, I can reduce my ignorance. Here I don't
>> see how I can reduce my ignorance, and my thoughts turn to an evaluation
>> that working Pinax is excellent, not-configured Pinax that you don't know
>> how to improve is worth very little, and Liferat is mediocre but works, in
>> its own special way.
>>
>> *After a day or so of losing at trying to make pinax-social-network 1.0
>> have the merits of Pinax social-project 0.5 or .7, I'd like to ask how to
>> cut with the grain instead of against it.*
>>
>> *The earlier version came as a fully functional site: you could override
>> and customize if you want, but it came "batteries included", as a room with
>> well-chosen pegs on the walls, pictures hanging on the hooks, and furniture
>> as needed. You could replace as much of the room's initial 

Re: An alternate cry for help

[Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]]

Hi Christos,

I cannot comment directly on Pinax as I have never used it before, however
I can give some general comments.

Asking how to make a social network is the same as asking how to make a
game, how to build a car, how to write a book etc.. it *completely* depends
on what your end goal is, and how deep down the rabbit hole you want to go.

If your end goal is to better your development skills in Python, then you
could start out with something like this;
http://learnpythonthehardway.org/

If this is not your end goal, then you will have certain limitation. For
example, I could use (CMS FRAMEWORK HERE) to make a very basic blog with
zero programming skill, but extending the functionality would require
either a pre-existing plugin, or time being spent on learning the framework
and language.. I could possibly throw together a very quick hack, or spend
X amount of time learning every little bit about what I'm doing.

An excellent place to start looking would be on github, there are plenty of
projects you could use for inspiration/examples to get you started.

Hope this helps

Cal

On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 7:28 AM, Christos Jonathan Hayward <
christos.jonathan.hayw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I wrote earlier asking if someone could correct my ignorance to go from
> Pinax building blocks to a working site. Since then, I searched Safari, and
> found five references to Pinax, at
> http://my.safaribooksonline.com/search?q=Pinax . One is a tangent in a
> Django book I wrote; three are Python books I didn't write; and one is an
> iPhone JavaScript book that includes 'pinax' in a Greek-English lexicon's
> URL.
>
> I realized after posting the original post below that although I'm an avid
> learner my ignorance of Pinax may be a bit of a challenge to straighten
> out. So besides the possibility of educating me to really know how to put
> Pinax sites together, could someone preassemble a complete social site that
> just needs database setup, a syncdb, and a gunicorn invocation? It would be
> nice to have the earlier Pinax Social Project reimplemented using the new
> tools, as opposed to the pinax-social-project which is a set of building
> blocks to complete a social project. It seems the general approach is to
> turn over better and better building blocks to the user, but the
> already-working sensible default has its merits, and I'd appreciate those
> merits after a day of struggling with old Pinax, new Pinax, borrowed Pinax,
> blue Pinax, not getting any responses with good learning resources, and
> searching Safari and recognizing that O'Reilly's whole Safari does not
> contain as much information about Pinax as the email you are reading, not
> enough by half, and that kind of makes my ignorance a less changeable
> condition. If I'm ignorant about Django but have the Django documentation
> and the Django book, I can reduce my ignorance. Here I don't see how I can
> reduce my ignorance, and my thoughts turn to an evaluation that working
> Pinax is excellent, not-configured Pinax that you don't know how to improve
> is worth very little, and Liferat is mediocre but works, in its own special
> way.
>
> *After a day or so of losing at trying to make pinax-social-network 1.0
> have the merits of Pinax social-project 0.5 or .7, I'd like to ask how to
> cut with the grain instead of against it.*
>
> *The earlier version came as a fully functional site: you could override
> and customize if you want, but it came "batteries included", as a room with
> well-chosen pegs on the walls, pictures hanging on the hooks, and furniture
> as needed. You could replace as much of the room's initial contents as you
> wanted, but it came as a furnished room.*
>
> *Pinax-social-network 1.0 is not a furnished room. It has pegs, and the
> pegs are about as well-placed as you could ask for, but if you want
> pictures on those pegs, it's on you to put pictures on the pegs. And there
> is space you can put furniture in the room; the room is left empty so you
> can put whatever furniture you want in. And the room comes with elegantly
> placed lorem ipsum graffiti on the walls, to motivate you to paint or
> wallpaper the walls to meet your taste. It comes "batteries removed."*
>
> *So... what are the resources, and how does one go about, making a social
> network here? Do I just take it as a bit of Django putty? I expect I'd do a
> lot of reinventing the wheel if I just use Django knowledge. Is there a
> tutorial that shows how to make a live site out of one of Pinax's projects?
> *
>
> *I spent a bit of time reading about Liferat Liferay before remembering
> how painful it was even when I knew it well. The problem here may just be
> that I am ignorant about Pinax, and ignorance is a changeable condition.*
>
> *So let's say I know something about Python, something about Django and
> something about older, fully assembled versions of Pinax, but not how to
> take a starter Pinax project and make a finished site out of it. I'm
> ignorant on that 

An alternate cry for help

[Christos Jonathan Hayward]

I wrote earlier asking if someone could correct my ignorance to go from
Pinax building blocks to a working site. Since then, I searched Safari, and
found five references to Pinax, at
http://my.safaribooksonline.com/search?q=Pinax . One is a tangent in a
Django book I wrote; three are Python books I didn't write; and one is an
iPhone JavaScript book that includes 'pinax' in a Greek-English lexicon's
URL.

I realized after posting the original post below that although I'm an avid
learner my ignorance of Pinax may be a bit of a challenge to straighten
out. So besides the possibility of educating me to really know how to put
Pinax sites together, could someone preassemble a complete social site that
just needs database setup, a syncdb, and a gunicorn invocation? It would be
nice to have the earlier Pinax Social Project reimplemented using the new
tools, as opposed to the pinax-social-project which is a set of building
blocks to complete a social project. It seems the general approach is to
turn over better and better building blocks to the user, but the
already-working sensible default has its merits, and I'd appreciate those
merits after a day of struggling with old Pinax, new Pinax, borrowed Pinax,
blue Pinax, not getting any responses with good learning resources, and
searching Safari and recognizing that O'Reilly's whole Safari does not
contain as much information about Pinax as the email you are reading, not
enough by half, and that kind of makes my ignorance a less changeable
condition. If I'm ignorant about Django but have the Django documentation
and the Django book, I can reduce my ignorance. Here I don't see how I can
reduce my ignorance, and my thoughts turn to an evaluation that working
Pinax is excellent, not-configured Pinax that you don't know how to improve
is worth very little, and Liferat is mediocre but works, in its own special
way.

*After a day or so of losing at trying to make pinax-social-network 1.0
have the merits of Pinax social-project 0.5 or .7, I'd like to ask how to
cut with the grain instead of against it.*

*The earlier version came as a fully functional site: you could override
and customize if you want, but it came "batteries included", as a room with
well-chosen pegs on the walls, pictures hanging on the hooks, and furniture
as needed. You could replace as much of the room's initial contents as you
wanted, but it came as a furnished room.*

*Pinax-social-network 1.0 is not a furnished room. It has pegs, and the
pegs are about as well-placed as you could ask for, but if you want
pictures on those pegs, it's on you to put pictures on the pegs. And there
is space you can put furniture in the room; the room is left empty so you
can put whatever furniture you want in. And the room comes with elegantly
placed lorem ipsum graffiti on the walls, to motivate you to paint or
wallpaper the walls to meet your taste. It comes "batteries removed."*

*So... what are the resources, and how does one go about, making a social
network here? Do I just take it as a bit of Django putty? I expect I'd do a
lot of reinventing the wheel if I just use Django knowledge. Is there a
tutorial that shows how to make a live site out of one of Pinax's projects?*

*I spent a bit of time reading about Liferat Liferay before remembering how
painful it was even when I knew it well. The problem here may just be that
I am ignorant about Pinax, and ignorance is a changeable condition.*

*So let's say I know something about Python, something about Django and
something about older, fully assembled versions of Pinax, but not how to
take a starter Pinax project and make a finished site out of it. I'm
ignorant on that point. How can I cure my ignorance? What resources are out
there so I can get what was so easily in reach in older versions of Pinax?*

-- 
[image: Christos Jonathan Hayward] 
Christos Jonathan Hayward, an Orthodox Christian author.

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