Re: [Dng] The result of my learning in the last few days

On 25/05/15 04:28, Anto wrote: Hello Everybody, I have learnt a lot in the last few days about some tiny parts in the development of packages for Debian based distros. The result of that is on https://git.devuan.org/anto/gentoo-eudev. . . As the above link is publicly available on this

Re: [Dng] OT: separate GUI from commands (was: Re: The more things change, the more they remain the same

Hi Steve, excellent feedback as always :) On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 4:41 PM, Steve Litt wrote: > On Wed, 27 May 2015 14:27:17 -0400 > Jude Nelson wrote: > > > > I've been thinking about the general form of this problem (and a > > general solution) for months, and I think I'm almost ready to provi

Re: [Dng] OT: separate GUI from commands

On 05/27/2015 02:27 PM, Jude Nelson wrote: Hi Hendrik, On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 6:12 AM, Hendrik Boom > wrote: On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 03:32:00PM +0200, Laurent Bercot wrote: > As a rule of thumb, developers should always use the smallest possible

Re: [Dng] OT: separate GUI from commands (was: Re: The more things change, the more they remain the same

Hi Hendrik, On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 12:35 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 02:27:17PM -0400, Jude Nelson wrote: > > Hi Hendrik, > > > ... (much snipped) (I'm sorry, I hadn't meant to take you away from > vdev for the amount of time it took to write this lengthy and > interestin

Re: [Dng] OT: separate GUI from commands (was: Re: The more things change, the more they remain the same

On Wed, 27 May 2015 14:27:17 -0400 Jude Nelson wrote: > I've been thinking about the general form of this problem (and a > general solution) for months, and I think I'm almost ready to provide > a formal design document. > > [The Problem] > Many programs couple the business logic to the present

Re: [Dng] OT: separate GUI from commands (was: Re: The more things change, the more they remain the same

On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 02:27:17PM -0400, Jude Nelson wrote: > Hi Hendrik, > ... (much snipped) (I'm sorry, I hadn't meant to take you away from vdev for the amount of time it took to write this lengthy and interesting reply) > > An interesting consequence of structuring applications this wa

Re: [Dng] OT: separate GUI from commands

On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 04:54:53PM +0200, Laurent Bercot wrote: > On 27/05/2015 12:12, Hendrik Boom wrote: > >I'm in the process of writing (yet) a(nother) editor and output formatter, > >and on reading this, I started to wonder -- just how could one separate > >a command-line version from the UI?

Re: [Dng] OT: separate GUI from commands

On 27/05/2015 14:54, Laurent Bercot wrote: On 27/05/2015 12:12, Hendrik Boom wrote: I'm in the process of writing (yet) a(nother) editor and output formatter, and on reading this, I started to wonder -- just how could one separate a command-line version from the UI? I can see that the output fo

Re: [Dng] OT: separate GUI from commands (was: Re: The more things change, the more they remain the same

Hi Hendrik, On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 6:12 AM, Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 03:32:00PM +0200, Laurent Bercot wrote: > > > As a rule of thumb, developers should always use the smallest possible > > amount of dependencies for a project, and clearly separate layers - e.g. > > if a p

Re: [Dng] The more things change, the more they remain the same

On 27/05/2015 17:46, Anto wrote: And I have been using OpenWRT for years This is exactly akin to using a distribution, even if you recompile it from source: it hides the real costs such as software dependencies, because it precisely does all the hard work for you. OpenWRT is a great project,

Re: [Dng] vdev status update (May 25 2015)

On 27/05/15 19:06, Jude Nelson wrote: Hi Anto, On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 6:19 AM, Anto > wrote: On 25/05/15 18:29, Jude Nelson wrote: Hey everyone, I have the latest news for vdev: . . Thoughts and feedback to the above w

Re: [Dng] The more things change, the more they remain the same

On 27/05/2015 17:51, Irrwahn wrote: No intention to lessen your main point, but that last observation does not come as a surprise. Development systems inherently have an installation overhead compared to simple runtime environments, it's always been that way. Oh, definitely. My router doesn't

Re: [Dng] vdev status update (May 25 2015)

Hi Anto, On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 6:19 AM, Anto wrote: > > > On 25/05/15 18:29, Jude Nelson wrote: > >> Hey everyone, >> >> I have the latest news for vdev: >> >> . > > . > >> Thoughts and feedback to the above welcome :) >> -Jude >> >> > Thanks a lot Jude for all your efforts. > > Since you pu

Re: [Dng] OT: separate GUI from commands (was: Re: The more things change, the more they remain the same

Hi, Hendrik. Your post reminds me of a chapter in "The Art of Unix Programming", by Eric Steven Raymond, which I always recommend. http://catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/ El 2015-05-27 06:12, Hendrik Boom escribió: ... I am testing the limits of the advice to separate interaction from command l

Re: [Dng] OT: separate GUI from commands (was: Re: The more things change, the more they remain the same

On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 06:12:15AM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 03:32:00PM +0200, Laurent Bercot wrote: > > > As a rule of thumb, developers should always use the smallest possible > > amount of dependencies for a project, and clearly separate layers - e.g. > > if a projec

Re: [Dng] The more things change, the more they remain the same

Laurent Bercot wrote on 27.05.2015 17:15: > On 27/05/2015 16:49, Didier Kryn wrote: >> I am slowly trying to assemble a minimal Linux development >> environment and the number of tools you need to just compile a C >> program is unbelievable. Clearly, the majority of developpers don't >> care about

Re: [Dng] The more things change, the more they remain the same

On 27/05/15 17:15, Laurent Bercot wrote: On 27/05/2015 16:49, Didier Kryn wrote: I am slowly trying to assemble a minimal Linux development environment and the number of tools you need to just compile a C program is unbelievable. Clearly, the majority of developpers don't care about simplicity

Re: [Dng] The more things change, the more they remain the same

On 27/05/2015 16:49, Didier Kryn wrote: I am slowly trying to assemble a minimal Linux development environment and the number of tools you need to just compile a C program is unbelievable. Clearly, the majority of developpers don't care about simplicity. Amen to that. I built my home router

Re: [Dng] OT: separate GUI from commands

On 27/05/2015 12:12, Hendrik Boom wrote: I'm in the process of writing (yet) a(nother) editor and output formatter, and on reading this, I started to wonder -- just how could one separate a command-line version from the UI? I can see that the output formatter can be so separated (and very useful

Re: [Dng] The more things change, the more they remain the same

Le 27/05/2015 15:32, Laurent Bercot a écrit : On a development machine, it is easy to always get the newest, shiniest tool, and quickly make a project work using that tool. But dependencies are a cost, a cost that is mostly hidden to developers, and also mostly hidden to users with a lot of hard

[Dng] OT: separate GUI from commands (was: Re: The more things change, the more they remain the same

On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 03:32:00PM +0200, Laurent Bercot wrote: > As a rule of thumb, developers should always use the smallest possible > amount of dependencies for a project, and clearly separate layers - e.g. > if a project comes with an engine and a GUI, then the engine should come > as a com

Re: [Dng] The more things change, the more they remain the same

On 24/05/2015 00:17, Steve Litt wrote: http://troubleshooters.com/linux/politics_of_dependencies.htm Well written, Steve. I liked the article. :) I would argue that arrogance isn't so much the problem as carelessness. It's actually a good idea to stand your ground against external pressure w

Re: [Dng] The more things change, the more they remain the same

Steve Litt wrote on 24.05.2015 00:17: > http://troubleshooters.com/linux/politics_of_dependencies.htm Thanks for the read. Now, if only we could burn the last paragraph of the article in the retinas of certain "developers". Cheers, Urban ___ Dng mailin

Re: [Dng] vdev status update (May 25 2015)

On 25/05/15 18:29, Jude Nelson wrote: Hey everyone, I have the latest news for vdev: . . Thoughts and feedback to the above welcome :) -Jude Thanks a lot Jude for all your efforts. Since you put a big fat warning "**CURRENTLY BROKEN. DO NOT ATTEMPT. WE ARE MIGRATING TO .DEB PACKAGES