Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 07:54:33 +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: [...] > I think it is a mistake to expect a few lines of code written in > whatever language to outperform other init projects written in several > thousand lines of code that are well debugged and mature. The place > for these little

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

Hi, << If 16 lines of C pose a mystery, one should look for another hobby. Or get a clue already. >> I was NOT referring to 16 lines of code, but to the source code for established inits like sysvinit, runit and systemd. If *at the first glance*, these projects do not instill some feeling of awe,

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

Hi, << The part I am wondering about has to do with what kind of model actual sysvinit follows. In regular devuan, I see that my daemons are children of PID 1 which is /sbin/init. >> As far as I have understood, /sbin/init calls /etc/init.d/rc X to load the OS which means it is the script that

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 04:55:40PM +0200, Irrwahn wrote: > > It's this arrogant attitude of "alright, got it, easy enough, > now I'm gonna improve on it" without bothering to actually > get to the bottom of even the basic concepts behind it, that > brought us systemd and other crap. If you

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 15:31:28 +0200 Irrwahn wrote: > As for the educational value: I fail to see what good does learning > things already proven wrong. I don't know what got proven wrong, but as a result of this thread, the average DNG inhabitant now knows as much about init

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 12:56:16 -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 04:55:40PM +0200, Irrwahn wrote: >> >> It's this arrogant attitude of "alright, got it, easy enough, >> now I'm gonna improve on it" without bothering to actually >> get to the bottom of even the basic concepts

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 12:02:35 +0200 Didier Kryn wrote: > However I think init must do more on the long run than reaping > zombies. It should ensure in some way that at least someone can login > to the system to do something, for example it should supervise a > supervisor, or

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 20:01:37 +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: > On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 04:55:40PM +0200, Irrwahn wrote: >> >> It's this arrogant attitude of "alright, got it, easy enough, >> now I'm gonna improve on it" without bothering to actually >> get to the bottom of even the basic concepts

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 16:55:40 +0200 Irrwahn wrote: > A minimal PID1 (written in whatever language) is not an init > system. Everyone should note the preceding sentence. A lot of people use PID1 and "init" interchangeably, and that's wrong and leads to problems. As a matter

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

On 06/17/2016 09:36 PM, KatolaZ wrote: [snip] > Unfortunately, system initialisation is really a bit more complicated > than that, whether you like it or not. [snip] Is there a concise summary somewhere of what system initialization entails? Or is it dependent on accumulated experience and not

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 20:19:40 +0200 Irrwahn wrote: > Far from it. You are humiliating yourself by showing more than > just reluctance to accept anything beyond your preconceptions. Urban, let it go. Edward has a different way of going about stuff than you. No biggy.

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 04:55:40PM +0200, Irrwahn wrote: > > It's this arrogant attitude of "alright, got it, easy enough, > now I'm gonna improve on it" without bothering to actually > get to the bottom of even the basic concepts behind it, that > brought us systemd and other crap. If you keep

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 21:40:11 +0300 Lars Noodén wrote: > On 06/17/2016 09:36 PM, KatolaZ wrote: > [snip] > > Unfortunately, system initialisation is really a bit more > > complicated than that, whether you like it or not. > [snip] > > Is there a concise summary somewhere

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 09:40:11PM +0300, Lars Noodén wrote: > On 06/17/2016 09:36 PM, KatolaZ wrote: > [snip] > > Unfortunately, system initialisation is really a bit more complicated > > than that, whether you like it or not. > [snip] > > Is there a concise summary somewhere of what system

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 03:02:54PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > KatolaZ wrote: > [cut] > > I am sorry to look harsh here, but what the DNG list might have > > "learned" from this "experiment" is just to create a process which > > forks a child and wait forever for its

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 08:19:12PM +0100, KatolaZ wrote: > Then you can provide any other alternative definition of "init > system", but if there is no procedure that does those things for you, > then you have to manually do those tasks, at each reboot. In that case > the 12-lines init might just

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 02:14:10PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 15:31:28 +0200 > Irrwahn wrote: > > > As for the educational value: I fail to see what good does learning > > things already proven wrong. > > I don't know what got proven wrong, but as a

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 09:25:06PM +0100, KatolaZ wrote: > On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 09:44:56PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote: > > Specifying init=/bin/bash via grub on the cmdline is a common rescue > > technique for systems with a broken init. Guess what init implementation > > needs to be rescued

Re: [DNG] LXC template for Devuan

On 2016-06-13 08:23, Jaromil wrote: > > hi, > > On Mon, 13 Jun 2016, Simon Walter wrote: > > > I've made an account on git.devuan.org (user: smwltr) How do you want to do > > this? Shall I fork your repo and apply a patch and then send you a pull > > request? > > we can create a group (named

[DNG] still zram

Sometime ago i asked here about zram - and got good advice. On one laptop i have it running and all is fine. But on this unfortunate Sony i have problems: When i tried to install zram as on the other machine i discovered that zram module is not enabled at all: zgrep ZRAM /proc/config.gz

Re: [DNG] LXC template for Devuan

Hi Folks, I fixed a subtle bug in the lxc-devuan template which causes some packages to be reinstalled. In the original download function, the 'packages' variable (used by: debootstrap --include=$packages ...) leaks to the post_process function causing packages to be reinstalled. It's my

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 09:44:56PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote: > On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 08:19:12PM +0100, KatolaZ wrote: > > Then you can provide any other alternative definition of "init > > system", but if there is no procedure that does those things for you, > > then you have to manually do

[DNG] a debian vs devuan problem

By chance i discovered a kind of a compatibility problem: Since i'm still struggling with my setup (kernel modules are missing, machine tends to get very hot etc. pp.) i wanted to checkup which graphic driver would be the best and i installed and tried to run nvidia-detect - which gave me the

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

Hi, So, in essence I am being told to get away as otherwise I would be ruining my reputation or coding broken code by design. I will recount what I did when GRUB2 started insisting on using scripts. As I have a multiboot system, I understood immediately that the 'new' GRUB version could become a

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

On Fri, 2016-06-17 at 20:19 +0100, KatolaZ wrote: > On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 03:02:54PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > Well, if your definition of "initialisation" is just "getting > something that can boot and shut down without requiring journal > restores or fsck", then I don't see why Edward is

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 19:36:49 +0100 KatolaZ wrote: > On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 02:14:10PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 15:31:28 +0200 > > Irrwahn wrote: > > > > > As for the educational value: I fail to see what good does > > >

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 07:48:11PM +0100, KatolaZ wrote: > > I would say that nowadays things like: > > - Mounting filesystems > - Configuring networking > - Configuring consoles > - Launching daemons for different services > - Offering logins > > are all part fo what I consider "system

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

On 06/17/2016 04:25 PM, KatolaZ wrote: On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 09:44:56PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote: >On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 08:19:12PM +0100, KatolaZ wrote: > >Then you can provide any other alternative definition of "init > >system", but if there is no procedure

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

Hi, So to replace my car's battery, I have to first have an understanding like that of a car engineer. What I am being repeatedly battered to accept, is the irrationality that the whole always entirely affects the parts! I take this as an attack on my intelligence: this is insulting my

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 16:09:00 +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: > Hi, > > << > If 16 lines of C pose a mystery, one should look for another hobby. > Or get a clue already. >>> > I was NOT referring to 16 lines of code, but to the source code for > established inits like sysvinit, runit and systemd.

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

Le 17/06/2016 14:44, Joel Roth a écrit : Edward Bartolo wrote: >PID 1 should fork only once to run the first script that loads the >operating system. Once execution enters the infinite loop there is no >way of it jumping to somewhere else. I'm guessing the loop doesn't actually loop, as the

[DNG] polkit - which one?

Thanks to my installation hassle i had an a bit close look to some installed modules. So i saw, that with the basic install + X (i did not install any specific desktop, but only with the --no-install-recommends option: xorg, jwm, menu, lxdm) is already pulled in the gnome-polkit. I do not know,

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 17:42:39 +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: >> what the heck did you think the >> last line of Felker's original code did? > Felker's last line: > return execve("/etc/rc", (char *[]){ "rc", 0 }, (char *[]){ 0 }); > > In Devuan rc is found in /etc/init.d meaning I had to edit the

Re: [DNG] Devuan migrate and install

On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 12:12:07 -0400 aitor_czr wrote: [snip] > 6) Clean the content generated by the failed attempt and try again: > > apt-get autoremove > make build_cdrom_isolinux > > The initrd.gz and the vmlinuz will be generated in the dest folder :) Ok, but will

Re: [DNG] polkit - which one?

On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 16:21:35 +0200, Emninger wrote: > Thanks to my installation hassle i had an a bit close look to some > installed modules. So i saw, that with the basic install + X (i did not > install any specific desktop, but only with the --no-install-recommends > option: xorg, jwm, menu,

Re: [DNG] Mini init script written in Perl boots.

Hi, << what the heck did you think the last line of Felker's original code did? >> Felker's last line: return execve("/etc/rc", (char *[]){ "rc", 0 }, (char *[]){ 0 }); In Devuan rc is found in /etc/init.d meaning I had to edit the code. Second, to load XFCE4.10 I had to also call "rc 2".

Re: [DNG] Devuan migrate and install

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 06:13:59PM +0200, richard lucassen wrote: [cut] > > Anyway, Debian has such an option and I think it would be very valuable > if such an initrd.gz/vmlinuz would be available from the Devuan > mirrors. This will make Devuan being available through many PXE boot > servers