Re: [DNG] Gnome?

Le 19/09/2017 à 15:00, Narcis Garcia a écrit : 1. Gnome is the desktop environment that better fits my criteria for unexperienced and normal people. Are you kidding? I consider myself an experienced user and cannot make sense of either Gnome or KDE in their "modern" incarnations.

Re: [DNG] Yunit

Le 20/09/2017 à 13:08, Nate Bargmann a écrit : I am still puzzled how a desktop GUI can depend on init system. Services, yes, an init, not so much. Excellent argument to oppose to those peole still claiming Systemd is an init system. Didier

[DNG] Yunit

Has anyone tried out Yunit on Devuan? It’s a community fork of the Unity 8 code that was abandoned after Ubuntu switched to Gnome for their next release. https://yunit.io/ https://yunit.io/yunit-packages-for-debian-stable-testing-and-unstable/

Re: [DNG] Gnome?

On Tue, 2017-09-19 at 16:04 +0200, Svante Signell wrote: > On Tue, 2017-09-19 at 15:22 +0200, Narcis Garcia wrote: > > I understand perfectly current situation with Gnome and Systemd. > > But if I cannot offer Gnome 3 to desktop users (or a fork as Mate was > > for Gnome 2), Devuan is not an

[DNG] Systemd-free => Gnome-free? [Was: Re: Gnome?

On 19.09.17 15:56, J. Fahrner wrote: > I'm wondering why people cry when they don't get Gnome and why they try to > enforce Devuan developers to offer Gnome. Devuans goal is to offer a Linux > system without systemd. Errr, Devuan's reason for _existing_ is to eschew systemd. Absolutely nothing

Re: [DNG] Systemd-free => Gnome-free? [Was: Re: Gnome?

On Wed, 2017-09-20 at 17:41 +1000, Erik Christiansen wrote: > On 19.09.17 15:56, J. Fahrner wrote: > > I'm wondering why people cry when they don't get Gnome and why they try to > > And that's not possible for Gnome, because Gnome depends on systemd. > > If you want Gnome you have to live with

Re: [DNG] Systemd-free => Gnome-free? [Was: Re: Gnome?

On 20.09.17 09:55, Svante Signell wrote: > On Wed, 2017-09-20 at 17:41 +1000, Erik Christiansen wrote: > > On 19.09.17 15:56, J. Fahrner wrote: > > > I'm wondering why people cry when they don't get Gnome and why they try to > > > > And that's not possible for Gnome, because Gnome depends on

[DNG] Why all this systemd stuff ?

After upgrading to Devuan Jessie, curiosity made me chack in Synaptic that my system did not have any infection of the systemd pox.apt search systemd I was surprised to see all those systemd packages appear in the list of instalable packages. Why are there so many ? My source list: deb

Re: [DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse

Hi there On 18/09/17 22:35, dev wrote: Anyone know if there is an Apulse package for Devuan? I thought I had it working a couple months back but now, on a different machine, I cannot find the Apulse package. I don't remember how I got it working. Checking google of course brings up the git

Re: [DNG] Yunit

> ..these https://forum.yunit.io/search.php?keywords=systemd > and https://yunit.io/?s=systemd would if anything, suggest > "systemd is not a worry here.", which might mean they might > be or become agnostic on init systems. That doesn’t surprise me, considering Ubuntu was using Unity for a

Re: [DNG] Gnome?

El 20/09/17 a les 11:48, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI ha escrit: > On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 09:02:37 +0200 > Narcis Garcia wrote: > >> Is there some published procedure to install Gnome in Devuan 8/9 ? >> I need this to migrate desktop users from Debian & Ubuntu. > > There are in the

Re: [DNG] Why all this systemd stuff ?

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 06:03:21AM -0400, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: > On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 10:29:08 +0100 > KatolaZ wrote: > > > Have you tried to install any of them? > > No, I did not; I do not either try to poke rattlesnakes with a stick > You shouldn't be

Re: [DNG] Gnome?

On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 09:02:37 +0200 Narcis Garcia wrote: > Is there some published procedure to install Gnome in Devuan 8/9 ? > I need this to migrate desktop users from Debian & Ubuntu. There are in the Devuan repo 557 packages related to Gnome, 303 of which have Gnome

Re: [DNG] Gnome?

Could Devuan project itself open a bug in bugzilla.gnome.org about issues without Systemd? El 18/09/17 a les 09:02, Narcis Garcia ha escrit: > Is there some published procedure to install Gnome in Devuan 8/9 ? > > I need this to migrate desktop users from Debian & Ubuntu. >

Re: [DNG] Yunit

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 17:44:35 +1000, Tom wrote in message <97dde69e-3904-4abe-9acf-7fa2f104b...@gmail.com>: > Has anyone tried out Yunit on Devuan? It’s a community fork of the > Unity 8 code that was abandoned after Ubuntu switched to Gnome for > their next release. > > https://yunit.io/ > >

Re: [DNG] Why all this systemd stuff ?

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 05:20:05AM -0400, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: > After upgrading to Devuan Jessie, curiosity made me chack in Synaptic that my > system did not have any infection of the systemd pox.apt search systemd > > I was surprised to see all those systemd packages appear in the list

Re: [DNG] Why all this systemd stuff ?

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 10:29:08 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message <20170920092908.gr23...@katolaz.homeunix.net>: > On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 05:20:05AM -0400, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: > > After upgrading to Devuan Jessie, curiosity made me chack in > > Synaptic that my system did not have any

Re: [DNG] Why all this systemd stuff ?

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 10:29:08 +0100 KatolaZ wrote: > Have you tried to install any of them? No, I did not; I do not either try to poke rattlesnakes with a stick Cheers, Ron. -- In order to rally people, governments need enemies. They want us to

Re: [DNG] Yunit

> On 20 Sep 2017, at 21:08, Nate Bargmann wrote: > > * On 2017 20 Sep 04:01 -0500, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > >> ..these https://forum.yunit.io/search.php?keywords=systemd >> and https://yunit.io/?s=systemd would if anything, suggest >> "systemd is not a worry here.", which might

Re: [DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 09:59:10AM -0500, dev wrote: > IIRC Jack, ALSA and Pulseaudio are three completely different software > stacks. Firefox, as compiled from mozilla, will only work with > Pulseaudio. Their official reasoning[1] was: > > "Make Pulse Audio a hard dependency on Linux so that

Re: [DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse

Quoting Adam Borowski (kilob...@angband.pl): > > I guess I am switching to Chrome. Another sad day for FOSS. > > You don't want that pile of spyware, it lacks any basic privacy extensions > Firefox has. At _least_ try Chromium before adopting a proprietary browser (Chrome). I don't know why so

Re: [DNG] Gnome?

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 11:31:38 -0400 John Franklin wrote: > That said, there are plenty who either like it or at least have > gotten used to it. If we could get Gnome working here, it would > attract more users to Devuan. Serious question: Do we want that kind of user?

Re: [DNG] Systemd-free => Gnome-free? [Was: Re: Gnome?

> On Sep 20, 2017, at 11:35 AM, Alessandro Selli > wrote: > > On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 at 11:19:51 -0400 > John Franklin wrote: > > >> Your premise that “Gnome depends on systemd” is false. The current >> *packages* may depend on systemd, but I’ll

Re: [DNG] Systemd-free => Gnome-free? [Was: Re: Gnome?

> On Sep 20, 2017, at 11:33 AM, J. Fahrner wrote: > > Am 2017-09-20 17:19, schrieb John Franklin: > >> Your premise that “Gnome depends on systemd” is false. The current >> *packages* may depend on systemd, but I’ll bet they can be patched and >> rebuilt without systemd. >>

Re: [DNG] Gnome?

On 09/18/2017 03:02 AM, Narcis Garcia wrote: > Is there some published procedure to install Gnome in Devuan 8/9 ? > > I need this to migrate desktop users from Debian & Ubuntu. > While as others have said Gnome is an intertwined mess with systemd, there has been a continuing effort by dantrell to

Re: [DNG] Systemd-free => Gnome-free? [Was: Re: Gnome?

> On Sep 20, 2017, at 4:16 AM, Erik Christiansen > wrote: > > On 20.09.17 09:55, Svante Signell wrote: >> On Wed, 2017-09-20 at 17:41 +1000, Erik Christiansen wrote: >>> On 19.09.17 15:56, J. Fahrner wrote: I'm wondering why people cry when they don't get Gnome

Re: [DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse

On 09/20/2017 04:47 AM, Rob van der Putten wrote: >> >> Anyone have it working on Devuan and Firefox 55.0.3 64bit ? > > How about FF and Jackd? > I don't use Jack myself, but a lot people do. IIRC Jack, ALSA and Pulseaudio are three completely different software stacks. Firefox, as compiled

Re: [DNG] Systemd-free => Gnome-free? [Was: Re: Gnome?

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 at 11:19:51 -0400 John Franklin wrote: > Your premise that “Gnome depends on systemd” is false. The current > *packages* may depend on systemd, but I’ll bet they can be patched and > rebuilt without systemd. > > Give it a try. Please build the gnome

Re: [DNG] Systemd-free => Gnome-free? [Was: Re: Gnome?

Am 2017-09-20 17:19, schrieb John Franklin: Your premise that “Gnome depends on systemd” is false. The current *packages* may depend on systemd, but I’ll bet they can be patched and rebuilt without systemd. Give it a try. Please build the gnome packages from scratch and report back with where

Re: [DNG] Gnome?

> On Sep 20, 2017, at 2:06 AM, Didier Kryn wrote: > > Le 19/09/2017 à 15:00, Narcis Garcia a écrit : >> 1. Gnome is the desktop environment that better fits my criteria for >> unexperienced and normal people. > >Are you kidding? I consider myself an experienced user and

Re: [DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 11:47:05AM -0700, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Adam Borowski (kilob...@angband.pl): > > > > I guess I am switching to Chrome. Another sad day for FOSS. > > > > You don't want that pile of spyware, it lacks any basic privacy extensions > > Firefox has. > > At _least_ try

Re: [DNG] Systemd-free => Gnome-free? [Was: Re: Gnome?

On 2017-09-20 15:09, zap wrote: The phase “depends on systemd” is being used in two extreme contexts here. The first is a technical context, where “apt-get install ” fails because of a dependency, and may be trivially fixed with different build options. The second is “fundamentally and

Re: [DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse

Adam Borowski - 20.09.17, 21:21: > On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 11:47:05AM -0700, Rick Moen wrote: > > Quoting Adam Borowski (kilob...@angband.pl): […] > But, chromium as in Debian/Devuan is not good either: > https://bugs.debian.org/792580 claims it phones home even in "incognito" > mode -- and not

Re: [DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse

> All web browsers suck, and take turns at being the champions of > suckatude. For the last three months, Chromium has sucked the least for > me. I felt guilty because it was a Google product, but Rick has a > point: ChromIUM is a free software product. > > If you use Google maps (I unfortunately

Re: [DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 15:42:18 -0500, dev wrote in message : > > > On 09/20/2017 01:47 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > > > > At _least_ try Chromium before adopting a proprietary browser > > (Chrome). I don't know why so many Linux users think _only_ of

Re: [DNG] Yunit

* On 2017 20 Sep 06:36 -0500, J. Fahrner wrote: > Am 2017-09-20 13:08, schrieb Nate Bargmann: > > >I am still puzzled how a desktop GUI can depend on init system. > >Services, yes, an init, not so much. > > Because systemd is not only an init system, it provides a lot of services > too. I'll

Re: [DNG] Gnome?

> On Sep 20, 2017, at 2:07 PM, Steve Litt wrote: > > On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 11:31:38 -0400 > John Franklin wrote: > > >> That said, there are plenty who either like it or at least have >> gotten used to it. If we could get Gnome working here, it

Re: [DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse

> Huh? I think uBlock Origin is superior to Adblock in every aspect. > > Thanks, I would agree adblock is much more memory intensive and ethically unsound. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org

Re: [DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse

Quoting Adam Borowski (kilob...@angband.pl): > Most people seem to be using these two names interchangeably, even though, > as you rightfully point, they do differ. I did not go into a tangent of > correcting this as it was not relevant to bashing PulseAudio. 'Ah, the rare valid point', as Josh

[DNG] Vivaldi

Since there is currently some discussion about Chrome/Chromium security concerns, is Vivaldi (based on Chromium code I understand) also affected with the same security issues? If no one knows, what procedure do I go through to determine the answer myself (with the understanding that I am

Re: [DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse

Quoting zap (calmst...@posteo.de): > I would agree adblock is much more memory intensive and ethically unsound. ABP's 'Acceptable Ads' whitelisting is pretty questionable. OTOH, it's openly documented (e.g., https://adblockplus.org/acceptable-ads) and easy to revert. Just uncheck the 'Allow

Re: [DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse

Quoting dev (devua...@gmail.com): > Because the last time I tried Chromium its functionality was about on > par with Konquerer's and I wrote it off. Perhaps it's matured nicely? Criteria and opinions differ, of course, but I'd say it's at least worth your time to recheck.

Re: [DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 11:47:05 -0700 Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Adam Borowski (kilob...@angband.pl): > > > > I guess I am switching to Chrome. Another sad day for FOSS. > > > > You don't want that pile of spyware, it lacks any basic privacy > > extensions Firefox has. >

Re: [DNG] Gnome?

On 2017-09-20 14:22, John Franklin wrote: On Sep 20, 2017, at 2:07 PM, Steve Litt wrote: On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 11:31:38 -0400 John Franklin wrote: That said, there are plenty who either like it or at least have gotten used to it. If we could get

Re: [DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse

On 09/20/2017 01:47 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > At _least_ try Chromium before adopting a proprietary browser (Chrome). > I don't know why so many Linux users think _only_ of the proprietary > Google Chrome Web browser and not the open source Chromium browser of > which Google Chrome is an odd and

Re: [DNG] Vivaldi

Le 21/09/2017 00:53, Arnt Karlsen a écrit : > On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 23:55:47 +0200, mdn wrote in message > <59c2e3e3.6010...@openmailbox.org>: > >> Le 20/09/2017 22:26, airmoose a écrit : >>> Since there is currently some discussion about Chrome/Chromium >>> security concerns, is Vivaldi (based

Re: [DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 11:30:21PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 15:42:18 -0500, dev wrote in message > : > > > > > > > On 09/20/2017 01:47 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > > > > > > > At _least_ try Chromium before adopting a

Re: [DNG] Yunit

On Wednesday 20 September 2017 at 23:41:15, Nate Bargmann wrote: > * On 2017 20 Sep 06:36 -0500, J. Fahrner wrote: > > Am 2017-09-20 13:08, schrieb Nate Bargmann: > > >I am still puzzled how a desktop GUI can depend on init system. > > >Services, yes, an init, not so much. > > > > Because

Re: [DNG] Vivaldi

Le 20/09/2017 22:26, airmoose a écrit : > Since there is currently some discussion about Chrome/Chromium security > concerns, is Vivaldi (based on Chromium code I understand) also affected > with the same security issues? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivaldi_(web_browser)

Re: [DNG] Vivaldi

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 23:55:47 +0200, mdn wrote in message <59c2e3e3.6010...@openmailbox.org>: > Le 20/09/2017 22:26, airmoose a écrit : > > Since there is currently some discussion about Chrome/Chromium > > security concerns, is Vivaldi (based on Chromium code I understand) > > also affected with

[DNG] Has anyone tried waterfox?

I may sound like a broken record, but it is the next best thing, to Icecat with one exception where it excels: the updates come much more often. it is also superior to firefox for the following reasons: * Disabled Encrypted Media Extensions (EME) (*which sometimes is enabled by default as

Re: [DNG] Systemd-free => Gnome-free? [Was: Re: Gnome?

> On Sep 20, 2017, at 4:25 PM, goli...@dyne.org wrote: > > On 2017-09-20 15:09, zap wrote: >>> The phase “depends on systemd” is being used in two extreme contexts here. >>> The first is a technical context, where “apt-get install ” fails >>> because of a dependency, and may be trivially

Re: [DNG] Systemd-free => Gnome-free? [Was: Re: Gnome?

On 2017-09-20 21:47, John Franklin wrote: On Sep 20, 2017, at 4:25 PM, goli...@dyne.org wrote: On 2017-09-20 15:09, zap wrote: The phase “depends on systemd” is being used in two extreme contexts here. The first is a technical context, where “apt-get install ” fails because of a dependency,

Re: [DNG] Systemd-free => Gnome-free? [Was: Re: Gnome?

> On Sep 20, 2017, at 10:59 PM, goli...@dyne.org wrote: > > From a search for 'network-manager' in the botbot logs. > https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan/search/?q=network-manager > Was that so hard? Yes, it is. And condescending. Why would someone look at the IRC logs of a site that they've

Re: [DNG] Systemd-free => Gnome-free? [Was: Re: Gnome?

On 2017-09-20 22:36, John Franklin wrote: On Sep 20, 2017, at 10:59 PM, goli...@dyne.org wrote: From a search for 'network-manager' in the botbot logs. https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan/search/?q=network-manager Was that so hard? Yes, it is. And condescending. Why would someone look at the

Re: [DNG] Systemd-free => Gnome-free? [Was: Re: Gnome?

On 2017-09-20 20:51, zap wrote: I would actually like network manager to have its garbage systemd dependencies removed. ___ It's already been done golinux In which version of devuan? all of them or just jessie? just curious. From a search for

Re: [DNG] Systemd-free => Gnome-free? [Was: Re: Gnome?

Quoting goli...@dyne.org (goli...@dyne.org): > Because botbot logs the #devuan irc channel where a LOT of questions > are answered and or solved. IMO every Devuan user should have it > bookmarked. It is mentioned frequently on all Devuan communication > channels - those references are pretty

Re: [DNG] Systemd-free => Gnome-free? [Was: Re: Gnome?

I would actually like network manager to have its garbage systemd >> dependencies removed. >> ___ >> > > It's already been done > > golinux > In which version of devuan? all of them or just jessie? just curious. > >

Re: [DNG] Gnome?

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 07:38:28AM -0400, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: > On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 13:35:42 +0200 > Adam Borowski wrote: > > > And yeah, an analogy that makes systemd a disease is fitting... > > I know, been refering to it for ages as a pox... It's funnier in

Re: [DNG] Gnome?

Am 2017-09-20 11:59, schrieb Narcis Garcia: I like to rely on distribution's packages and be able to open a bug when necessary about it. If Devuan's people say Gnome is not supported at all, this means I need some other way to work on this. IMHO this would be the best option for you. Why do

Re: [DNG] Gnome?

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 12:50:55PM +0200, Narcis Garcia wrote: > El 20/09/17 a les 12:43, J. Fahrner ha escrit: > > Am 2017-09-20 11:59, schrieb Narcis Garcia: > > > >> I like to rely on distribution's packages and be able to open a bug when > >> necessary about it. If Devuan's people say Gnome

Re: [DNG] Why all this systemd stuff ?

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 07:01:20AM -0400, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: > On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 11:15:11 +0100 > KatolaZ wrote: > > > > > Have you tried to install any of them? > > > > No, I did not; I do not either try to poke rattlesnakes with a stick > > > You

Re: [DNG] Why all this systemd stuff ?

Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI - 20.09.17, 07:01: > On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 11:15:11 +0100 > > KatolaZ wrote: > > > > Have you tried to install any of them? > > > > > > No, I did not; I do not either try to poke rattlesnakes with a stick > > > > You shouldn't be scared of a

Re: [DNG] Gnome?

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 13:35:42 +0200 Adam Borowski wrote: > And yeah, an analogy that makes systemd a disease is fitting... I know, been refering to it for ages as a pox... Cheers, Ron. -- Withholding information is the essence of tyranny. Control of

Re: [DNG] Gnome?

El 20/09/17 a les 12:43, J. Fahrner ha escrit: > Am 2017-09-20 11:59, schrieb Narcis Garcia: > >> I like to rely on distribution's packages and be able to open a bug when >> necessary about it. If Devuan's people say Gnome is not supported at >> all, this means I need some other way to work on

Re: [DNG] Gnome?

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 12:50:55 +0200 Narcis Garcia wrote: > I prefer the best (for me) of all worlds: No Systemd, but Yes Gnome. Which is like wanting unprotected sex, but without sexually transmitted diseases... Cheers, Ron. -- Sodd's Second Law:

Re: [DNG] Why all this systemd stuff ?

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 11:15:11 +0100 KatolaZ wrote: > > > Have you tried to install any of them? > > No, I did not; I do not either try to poke rattlesnakes with a stick > You shouldn't be scared of a toothless rattlesnake How do you know a priori that the snake is

Re: [DNG] Yunit

* On 2017 20 Sep 04:01 -0500, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > ..these https://forum.yunit.io/search.php?keywords=systemd > and https://yunit.io/?s=systemd would if anything, suggest > "systemd is not a worry here.", which might mean they might > be or become agnostic on init systems. I read the forum

Re: [DNG] Gnome?

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 07:00:06AM -0400, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: > On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 12:50:55 +0200 > Narcis Garcia wrote: > > > I prefer the best (for me) of all worlds: No Systemd, but Yes Gnome. > > Which is like wanting unprotected sex, but without sexually

Re: [DNG] Yunit

Am 2017-09-20 13:08, schrieb Nate Bargmann: I am still puzzled how a desktop GUI can depend on init system. Services, yes, an init, not so much. Because systemd is not only an init system, it provides a lot of services too. ___ Dng mailing list

Re: [DNG] Yunit

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 06:08:46 -0500, Nate wrote in message <20170920110846.ge3...@n0nb.us>: > * On 2017 20 Sep 04:01 -0500, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > ..these https://forum.yunit.io/search.php?keywords=systemd > > and https://yunit.io/?s=systemd would if anything, suggest > > "systemd is not a