Re: [DNG] f2fs and beowulf: installation
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 21 May 05:00:03 +0100 tux...@sapo.pt scripsit: > Citando Dr. Nikolaus Klepp : > > > Anno domini 2020 Tue, 19 May 21:56:16 +0100 > > ael scripsit: > >> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 10:35:22PM +0200, Antony Stone wrote: > >> On Tuesday 19 May 2020 at 22:30:50, ael wrote: > >> > >>> I am hoping to install beowulf onto a new laptop in a week or two. > >>> I use f2fs on several drives with good results, so I want to > >>> use it on the root partition. f2fs seems the obvious choice on ssd's. > >> > >> https://howtos.davidsebek.com/debian-f2fs.html may be what you need. > > > > Has anybody done this successfully on beowulf? I tried today but the > > kernel crashed - last message was something about it not beeing able > > to mount the root filesystem. The kernel I used was from the > > "official" rpi repository, it has f2fs built in. > > > > I haven tried yet with f2fs, but its in my list :) > Check if you compiled the kernel with f2fs support, check if rootfs is > formated with f2fs, and if the fstab partition type is f2fs.. Check on both ... and the kernel can mount f2fs partitions, if root is on ext4. It just does not like root on f2fs, which is odd. Nik > > -- Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA, CIA ... ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Felker Init: was without-systemd.org not working
Citando Steve Litt : This whole discussion balances on the definition of "shell aware". What is "shell aware?" SteveT Have you tried to write shell script code into the execution command of a systemd unit file? it doesn't work right?! Why do you think it doesn't work? For it to work you need 2 files, ... the service unit , and also a shell script, But SysVInit only needs a script, no service unit required.. so its more optimized, only a file to control something.. Why in hell would you need to create several files to control the same thing? Its stupid.. Now in relation to s6, I need yet to read about it, maybe there are improvements.. Does s6 do the same mistake as systemd, with having 2 files for the same thing? The Linux Stadard Base, have defines the LSB Headers, as a way to control the services.. And their definition was in the same file as the daemon is.. So we expect only 1 file.. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] without-systemd.org not working
Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com): > > Steve's is a classic non-testable paranoid > > It would be testable if we could put on the witness stand under oath > somebody who attended the meetings that decided to push systemd. I mean, of course, testable in the real world. Meanwhile, a skeptical observer would note at least two serious problems with your ad-hoc conspiracy hypothesis: (1) Over a decade, exactly zero departed Red Hat employees have spilled the beans on such an alleged conspiracy. (Threatening ex-employees with litigation over violating their employment confidentiality agreements doesn't actually work very well, especially given robust means of publishing corporate details without personal attribution.) (2) You didn't bother to tell a credible story about RHAT revenue, etc., i.e., how your alleged conspiracy makes non-fantasy business sense. RHAT/IBM's business model has been an open book since August 1999, when RHAT went public. Since then, it's been pretty obvious why they did what they did. When I shave the post-2010 Poettering history using Occam's Razor, I find that the parsimonious answer to why they adopted in RHEL and CentOS his system glue to be super-obvious: It's partly about their move into container-oriented cloud computing, e.g., his systemd code's utility as a cgroups manager. Among other things, IBM/RHAT famously haven't given a tinker's damn about 'Linux desktop computing' since the late 1990s, by contrast. > Conspiracies happen. So do untestable conspiracy theories. ;-> > Now here's a fact. If Redhat were on trial for foisting systemd upon the > world, you'd better believe the prosecutor would bring up the link I > proffered earlier in this thread as evidence of motive. I'm curious whether such a legal action would get dismissed _first_ for lack of standing, or for failure to state a cause of action. Oh, right: You don't actually understand civil litigation at all. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] f2fs and beowulf: installation
I forgot.. The bootloader needs support for f2fs, but since you are able to launch the kernel, it should be supported by definition( it loads the kernel into memory...so it access the block device.. ).. Citando tux...@sapo.pt: Citando Dr. Nikolaus Klepp : Anno domini 2020 Tue, 19 May 21:56:16 +0100 ael scripsit: On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 10:35:22PM +0200, Antony Stone wrote: On Tuesday 19 May 2020 at 22:30:50, ael wrote: I am hoping to install beowulf onto a new laptop in a week or two. I use f2fs on several drives with good results, so I want to use it on the root partition. f2fs seems the obvious choice on ssd's. https://howtos.davidsebek.com/debian-f2fs.html may be what you need. Has anybody done this successfully on beowulf? I tried today but the kernel crashed - last message was something about it not beeing able to mount the root filesystem. The kernel I used was from the "official" rpi repository, it has f2fs built in. I haven tried yet with f2fs, but its in my list :) Check if you compiled the kernel with f2fs support, check if rootfs is formated with f2fs, and if the fstab partition type is f2fs.. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] f2fs and beowulf: installation
Citando Dr. Nikolaus Klepp : Anno domini 2020 Tue, 19 May 21:56:16 +0100 ael scripsit: On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 10:35:22PM +0200, Antony Stone wrote: On Tuesday 19 May 2020 at 22:30:50, ael wrote: I am hoping to install beowulf onto a new laptop in a week or two. I use f2fs on several drives with good results, so I want to use it on the root partition. f2fs seems the obvious choice on ssd's. https://howtos.davidsebek.com/debian-f2fs.html may be what you need. Has anybody done this successfully on beowulf? I tried today but the kernel crashed - last message was something about it not beeing able to mount the root filesystem. The kernel I used was from the "official" rpi repository, it has f2fs built in. I haven tried yet with f2fs, but its in my list :) Check if you compiled the kernel with f2fs support, check if rootfs is formated with f2fs, and if the fstab partition type is f2fs.. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] without-systemd.org not working
On Tue, 19 May 2020 12:03:20 -0700 Rick Moen via Dng wrote: > > Presumably Steve Litt's point is that Red Hat has to make the > > internals complex so that there's complexity to shield the costomer > > from. > > Steve's is a classic non-testable paranoid It would be testable if we could put on the witness stand under oath somebody who attended the meetings that decided to push systemd. > conspiracy hypothesis. Conspiracies happen. Not every event is brought forth by a single person. I remember a time when scads of us Linux enthusiasts conspired to depose Microsoft. "Conspiracy theory" is not an insult, regardless of how people use the phrase. > These have had fans on a recurring basis in (among other places) > Steve's native USA. Let's not confuse a theory that something is caused by several people, acting together, with people spouting fact-averse, science-hostile, logically incorrect kiddiebabble. Now here's a fact. If Redhat were on trial for foisting systemd upon the world, you'd better believe the prosecutor would bring up the link I proffered earlier in this thread as evidence of motive. SteveT ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] without-systemd.org not working
On Tue, 19 May 2020 07:32:24 -0400 Hendrik Boom wrote: > Presumably Steve Litt's point is that Red Hat has to make the > internals complex so that there's complexity to shield the costomer > from. That's one of my two points. The other point is a complexified Linux makes their education and certs more desired and valuable. SteveT Steve Litt May 2020 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] without-systemd.org not working
On Tue, 19 May 2020 10:29:02 +0100 Peter Duffy wrote: > Apologies for following up on my own post - just an afterthought. > > When I originally encountered systemd, the word was that it was so > pervasive that it couldn't be removed (obviously, now we know > different ;) ) > > Given the alleged non-optionality of systemd, I started to wonder > about some kind of an init system wrapper (or even jail) - an > abstraction layer which would sit between the init subsystem and the > main system, and sanitise and homogenise interactions between the > two; init systems, including systemd, could be plugged and unplugged > into the top surface as desired; the abstraction layer would manage > commands and responses (including lying to the init subsystem if the > latter tried to do something dangerous or antisocial). Oh please don't suggest this: Poettering might do it. The job of an init system (not systemd, that's a software analogy of those old electronic circuits encased in epoxy so nobody could reverse engineer them) is to: 1) Run as PID1, listening for certain 2) PID1 forks off early boot stuff to mount, unencrypt, construct devices, set up the network, and the like. 3) PID1 forks off a daemon handler. The best daemon handlers are, in my opinion, djb style process supervisors like daemontools, runit and s6. 4) Upon receipt of a certain signal, PID1 forks or execs the shutdown script. It really is just that simple. There's no need to add anything to accommodate badly behaved init system authors. SteveT Steve Litt May 2020 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Device naming: was Felker Init: was without-systemd.org not working
On Tue, 19 May 2020 00:01:35 -0700 Rick Moen via Dng wrote: > Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com): > > > Substitute the word "needlessly complex" for "overengineered" and I > > don't like it either. But 1), I don't think you'd get anywhere near > > universal agreement that by_path, by_id, etc is either > > overengineered or needlessly complex, [...] > > One interesting fact about applying _local policy_ to system > administration is that universal agreement (i.e., vetted by others > elsewhere) is neither required nor useful. I agree. The preceding sentence is the story of my life. SteveT Steve Litt May 2020 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Felker Init: was without-systemd.org not working
On Tue, 19 May 2020 04:14:05 +0100 tux...@sapo.pt wrote: > The problem is that this init systems are not shell aware. I don't know what "shell aware" means. The minute a file begins with: #!/bin/sh the rest of the text executes according to the grammar/syntax/capabilities of /bin/sh. > yes they can fork and exec a shell script, What more would anyone want? > but does the service files > or daemon files are shell based? I don't understand the preceding sentence. > No they are not, they are in a intermediate language that for example > in systemd, is not even Turing Feature complete( I am speaking about > the unit files language ).. That's systemd's problem, but a s6 run or finish script can be written in /bin/sh, or even in compiled C++ if somebody wanted a difficult life. > > I don't know much about systemd, or s6 to be honest, only a bit.. > But the s6 creator told in the devuan conference that s6 is not shell > aware, and I believe he told, there is not simple way to turn it > shell aware.. This whole discussion balances on the definition of "shell aware". What is "shell aware?" SteveT Steve Litt May 2020 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] f2fs and beowulf: installation
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 19 May 21:56:16 +0100 ael scripsit: > On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 10:35:22PM +0200, Antony Stone wrote: > > On Tuesday 19 May 2020 at 22:30:50, ael wrote: > > > > > I am hoping to install beowulf onto a new laptop in a week or two. > > > I use f2fs on several drives with good results, so I want to > > > use it on the root partition. f2fs seems the obvious choice on ssd's. > > > > https://howtos.davidsebek.com/debian-f2fs.html may be what you need. > Has anybody done this successfully on beowulf? I tried today but the kernel crashed - last message was something about it not beeing able to mount the root filesystem. The kernel I used was from the "official" rpi repository, it has f2fs built in. Nik > Thanks for that. That seems to be a workaround for the deficiences of > the debian installer, and I guess that I might have to do something like > that. But I was hoping that the devuan installer might be a bit better. > > I hope that the devuan installer already has the f2fs modules in its > initramfs: despite that howto, I think that it is only the f2fs module > itself that is needed. So that would be a simple lightweight change to > the devuan version if it is not already there. > > Then the f2fs-tools,libf2fs-format4 and libf2fs5 packages need to be > added to the pool. Is much else needed? > > I suppose that I might be able to build an installation image like that > myself and see what happens. > > ael > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > -- Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA, CIA ... ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Device naming: was Felker Init: was without-systemd.org not working
[gets reply recipient right this time, sorry for the personal email last time Rick] On Tue, 19 May 2020, Rick Moen via Dng wrote: > You did, of course, say _unique_ partition labels, which avoids that > gentleman's quite perplexing problem. The uniqueness problem is easier to manage when it's just me and my partner! And any consequences affect just the two of us. I wouldn't have dared suggest such things when I worked :-) Jim ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] without-systemd.org not working
On Mon, 18 May 2020 21:39:11 -0400 Steve Litt wrote: > I eschew Occam's Razor in favor of Litt's Razor, which can be > paraphrased "Follow the money." See also the maxim of Cassius: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cui_bono "to whom is it a benefit?" ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
