Re: [DNG] [OT] Signature filtering (was: Devuan 3.0 Orca Problem)

[spiralofhope]

On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 19:03:13 -0700
Rick Moen  wrote:

> flush-left two hyhens plus a single space character, and
> then immediate a hard return

Oh, I didn't know about the single space.

Thanks for that, and the rest.  Getting lore and detail is a challenge
for me for the older stuff, because there's just so much opinion to
wade through on the contemporary internet.


> Of course, if you're using, say, the internal IMAP4 support of Claw
> Mail, then you aren't using a separate MDA, and cannot leverage an
> MDA's filtering functions.

This is my case.  There is a filtering feature that can have a trigger
made to execute an external program.  It might be an interesting
exercise for me to make something now that I know more.

It also might be interesting for me to create a list of the non-standard
signatures (by their separator, or by the whole block of text) to be
treated the same way, allowing me to set aside the signature of known
regulars.

I've also still got lists of hand-collected taglines from my youth, and
I wonder if I can figure out how to insert random entries.


> McQ!  (4x80)

Now I understand this.  :)

As an aside, the RFC suggests a limit of 75, even for a signature, since
this leaves space for quoting.






Some research notes for others.


Standard for interchange of USENET messages:

  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc1036/

"Son of 1036":

  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc1849/

There's a lot of interesting stuff, but page 22 has:

   ...  If a poster or posting agent does append
   a signature to an article, the signature SHOULD be preceded with a
   delimiter line containing (only) two hyphens (ASCII 45) followed by
   one blank (ASCII 32).  Posting agents SHOULD limit the length of
   signatures, since verbose excess bordering on abuse is common if no
   restraint is imposed; 4 lines is a common limit.

also, on page 23:

  NOTE: Four 75-column lines of signature text is 300 characters,
  which is ample to convey name and mail-address information in all
  but the most bizarre situations.
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Re: [DNG] [OT] Signature filtering (was: Devuan 3.0 Orca Problem)

[Rick Moen]

Quoting spiralofhope (spiralofh...@spiralofhope.com):

> Incoming musing..
> 
> 
> I haven't investigated the solution for email, but I would assume that
> many email clients can filter out signatures.

Frequently asked question, frequently given answer.

The prevailing convention as to .signature format is in 'Son of RFC
1036', originating in, but not specific to, Usenet netnews.  (I.e., it
is also a social convention for e-mail.)  The preceding delimiter for a 
.signature is a flush-left two hyhens plus a single space character, and
then immediate a hard return -- a problematic choice for several
reasons, but it's the convention we have.

By prevailing convention, the user is free to use the following four
lines of up to 80 characters each for personal expression.

It follows that readers who for whatever reason wish to suppress the
display of received .signature blocks can do so with a trivial filter
recipe.  If they cannot figure out how to implement such a filter with
their current software, they are free to change to different software in
which they can do it.

It is consider, by prevailing convention, gauche and clueless to
complain about someone else's .signature that immediately follows a Son
of RFC 1036-compliant '-- 'delimiter and is not excessively huge, because
it's within the power of that person to suppress .signature display with
a filtering script or MUA-internal .sigs-on / .sigs-off configuration
toggle, if such is provided.  (But see below about advertising
typically evading this control method.)

The Internet, being the Internet, is well supplied with vocal people who
for sundry reasons dislike or indignantly refuse to comply with this
social convention, and/or claim it is obsolete or inapplicable because
blah blah blah blah blah.  It nonetheless exists and persists, like
other netiquette guidelines.

The 4-lines, 80-columns limit on .signature size is called the 'McQuary
Limit', by the way, after George McQuary, one of the leading lights of 
newsgroup alt.fan.warlord, where ludicrously excessive ('warlordable')
.signatures were creatively mocked on Usenet, back in its glory days.
Some of us therefore still put 'McQ!' into our .signatures as a nod to
the McQuary Limit and as a reminder that good taste and self-restraint
(the basis of netiquette) is still a good idea.

As to (specifically) _advertising_ autoinserted by some (noxious)
software, I would be extremely surprised if it were ever inserted after a
standards-compliant delimiter, let alone inside a McQuary-compliant .sig
-- because the aim of advertising is to force everyone's attention,
hence it is routine for such advertising to completely disregard
netiquette.  And one gathers that the firms are also too clueless.

Therefore, filtering such advertising on the mail-receiving end becomes
more of a one-off problem, and a reason why a user who spews it onto the
Internet will tend to be viewed with disapproval until he/she fixes the
gaffe being committed in his/her name.  (In other words, 'I didn't do
that; Avast Antivirus did!' isn't an excuse.)


> However, when I went looking through my email client (Claws Mail [1]) I
> couldn't find anything obvious!  Maybe I didn't look hard enough.

Although this is not my problem (see above), you might consider
filtering .signatures via your mail delivery agent (MDA), whatever 
that is.

Of course, if you're using, say, the internal IMAP4 support of Claw
Mail, then you aren't using a separate MDA, and cannot leverage an MDA's 
filtering functions.

-- 
Cheers,My pid is Inigo Montoya.  You kill -9
Rick Moen  my parent process.  Prepare to vi.
r...@linuxmafia.com
McQ!  (4x80)
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Re: [DNG] Devuan 3.0 Orca Problem

[Gregory Nowak]

On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 07:04:25PM -0700, David Hoff Jr wrote:
> I have install Beowulf to a 32 bit Acer netbook using the text
> >installer with speech. I have speech in the text console but no speech
> >with Orca in the GUI desktop including the login screen. In the GUI
> >Desktop terminal I can bring up the Orca preferences with Orca -r -s
> >and find that in the second tab page there is nothing in the Voice
> >type, Speech System or Speech synthasizer boxes.
> >
> >
> >Any suggestions how to fix this. I do have other sounds, just no
> >speech from Orca.

You need to make the following configuration changes:

1. in /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf there is a line which reads:

#xserver-share=false

Uncomment it to read:

xserver-share=false

This is documented in bugs 432 and 493. The necessary change is
already made to the lightdm package in proposed-updates, and will be
part of devuan 3.1 when that happens.

2. Add user lightdm to the audio group. This is documented in bug 494
   and will happen in devuan unstable eventually. Keep an ear on it
   here:



3. In /etc/speech-dispatcher/speechd.conf find the line which says:

# AudioOutputMethod "pulseaudio"

and change it to say:

 AudioOutputMethod "libao"

I will be filing a bug on this soon. Fixing this will require forking
and maintaining the speech-dispatcher package from debian with the
above change in speechd.conf. This isn't something I can take on right
now. If someone else would like to, that would be good.

The easiest way to bring these changes in to effect would be to reboot
your system. You should have speech at this point at the login screen,
and in the graphical console. If you don't, let us know, and we can
try to figure out why. You didn't specify which graphical desktop you
installed, so I'm assuming mate, which is the most accessible. If you
went with xfce, changes 1 and 2 above won't help you since slim not
lightdm is the login manager.

Greg


-- 
web site: http://www.gregn.net
gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
skype: gregn1
(authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts.

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[DNG] [OT] Signature filtering (was: Devuan 3.0 Orca Problem)

[spiralofhope]

Incoming musing..


I haven't investigated the solution for email, but I would assume that
many email clients can filter out signatures.

However, when I went looking through my email client (Claws Mail [1]) I
couldn't find anything obvious!  Maybe I didn't look hard enough.

  - Perhaps I could find (or make) a plugin to show/hide (by default)
signatures based on content after various symbols (like dashes).

Bad ideas:

  - Script a solution to just remove content, summoned by a hotkey.  I
do this to let me raw-edit emails with control-e (so I can add
notes in them)
  - Have a pre-processor on each email as it's received.

These are bad ideas because they're destructive modifications.  Backups
are possible, but then you'd have to somehow know if destroyed content
is actually valuable to view.  Maybe the backups could be inserted as
attachments to each email that was thought to have a signature.

It would be awesome if that was implemented at the mailing list server
(mailman) level as a configuration option.  I checked, and at least
for this list it doesn't exist.  I'd argue that signatures are common
enough to justify implementing this complexity.

Signatures are a very old notion.  They are trivially hidden on most
forums because a signature is implemented as a separate text field.  In
old offline mail readers [2] (like Blue Wave [3] as I recall) it was
possible to hide such things.. but the idea might not have survived.



--

(this text is actually an example of a signature)

[1] Claws Mail
  https://www.claws-mail.org/
  my notes:  https://blog.spiralofhope.com/?p=4509

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offline_reader

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Wave_(mail_reader)
   my notes (minor):  https://blog.spiralofhope.com/?p=24393
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Re: [DNG] "Free" email accounts: was Devuan 3.0 Orca Problem

[Curtis Maurand via Dng]

I'm happy to sell you a domain name with email.  hit me up offlist.

--Curtis

On 7/24/20 11:24 AM, Steve Litt wrote:

Even better than tweaking Juno, for a tiny $15.00/year, buy a real
domain name. Almost all domain registrars offer at least one email
address with a functional, no-advertising email account.

For a nickel a day you can have an email address that makes you look
competent and professional, and doesn't inconvenience recipients with
ads, and generally subjects recipients to less dkim/dmarc hassles. Hey,
I'm a frugal guy, some say I'm downright cheap, but giving up one small
Starbucks coffee *per month* more than pays for a domain with email.

SteveT


On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 09:08:10 -0500
goli...@devuan.org wrote:


It is possible to opt out of that on Juno. You'll have to dig down to
find it though and every so often, they will try to turn it back on.
Very sneaky . . .

On 2020-07-24 08:21, Gabe Stanton via Dng wrote:

Sorry I don't have anything helpful regarding orca, but that looks
like an advertisement in your signature.
Are advertisements in signatures allowed in this list?
I think advertisements of any sort should be banned from this list.
I don't read (and occasionally participate on) this list to be
advertised a news source. I have enough people vying for my
attention already, this list should be free from that kind of stuff.
Gabe

On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 19:04 -0700, David Hoff Jr wrote:

 I have install Beowulf to a 32
   bit Acer netbook using the text


   

installer with
 speech. I have speech in the text console but no speech


 with Orca in the GUI desktop including the login screen.
In the
 GUI


 Desktop terminal I can bring up the Orca preferences with
Orca
 -r -s


 and find that in the second tab page there is nothing in
the
 Voice


 type, Speech System or Speech synthasizer boxes.






 Any suggestions how to fix this. I do have other sounds,
just no


 speech from Orca.


  

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--
Best Regards Curtis Maurand
mailto:cur...@maurand.com
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Re: [DNG] Devuan 3.0 Orca Problem

[Steve Litt]

Yes, I thought you were behaving like a jerk *UNTIL* I saw the volume
and content of the ad. The ad included something with American
politics, which is just sooo inappropriate for an international
technical list. Nothing jerky about objecting to *that particular* ad.

SteveT

On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 09:04:38 -0600
Gabe Stanton via Dng  wrote:

> Sorry if I sounded like a jerk, I don't intend to be one.
> Advertisements just tend to irritate me, like nails on a chalkboard.
> 
> On Fri, 2020-07-24 at 09:08 -0500, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
> > It is possible to opt out of that on Juno. You'll have to dig down
> > to 
> > find it though and every so often, they will try to turn it back
> > on. Very sneaky . . .
> > 
> > On 2020-07-24 08:21, Gabe Stanton via Dng wrote:  
> > > Sorry I don't have anything helpful regarding orca, but that looks
> > > like
> > > an advertisement in your signature.
> > > Are advertisements in signatures allowed in this list?
> > > I think advertisements of any sort should be banned from this
> > > list. I
> > > don't read (and occasionally participate on) this list to be
> > > advertised
> > > a news source. I have enough people vying for my attention
> > > already, this list should be free from that kind of stuff.
> > > Gabe
> > > 
> > > On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 19:04 -0700, David Hoff Jr wrote:  
> > > > I have install Beowulf to a 32
> > > >   bit Acer netbook using the text
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >   
> > > > > installer with
> > > > > speech. I have speech in the text console but no
> > > > > speech
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > with Orca in the GUI desktop including the login
> > > > > screen. In
> > > > > the
> > > > > GUI
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Desktop terminal I can bring up the Orca preferences
> > > > > with
> > > > > Orca
> > > > > -r -s
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > and find that in the second tab page there is nothing
> > > > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > Voice
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > type, Speech System or Speech synthasizer boxes.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Any suggestions how to fix this. I do have other
> > > > > sounds,
> > > > > just no
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > speech from Orca.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > >   
> > ___
> > Dng mailing list
> > Dng@lists.dyne.org
> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng  
> 
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[DNG] "Free" email accounts: was Devuan 3.0 Orca Problem

[Steve Litt]

Even better than tweaking Juno, for a tiny $15.00/year, buy a real
domain name. Almost all domain registrars offer at least one email
address with a functional, no-advertising email account.

For a nickel a day you can have an email address that makes you look
competent and professional, and doesn't inconvenience recipients with
ads, and generally subjects recipients to less dkim/dmarc hassles. Hey,
I'm a frugal guy, some say I'm downright cheap, but giving up one small
Starbucks coffee *per month* more than pays for a domain with email.

SteveT


On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 09:08:10 -0500
goli...@devuan.org wrote:

> It is possible to opt out of that on Juno. You'll have to dig down to 
> find it though and every so often, they will try to turn it back on. 
> Very sneaky . . .
> 
> On 2020-07-24 08:21, Gabe Stanton via Dng wrote:
> > Sorry I don't have anything helpful regarding orca, but that looks
> > like an advertisement in your signature.
> > Are advertisements in signatures allowed in this list?
> > I think advertisements of any sort should be banned from this list.
> > I don't read (and occasionally participate on) this list to be
> > advertised a news source. I have enough people vying for my
> > attention already, this list should be free from that kind of stuff.
> > Gabe
> > 
> > On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 19:04 -0700, David Hoff Jr wrote:  
> >> I have install Beowulf to a 32
> >>   bit Acer netbook using the text
> >> 
> >> 
> >>   
> >> > installer with
> >> > speech. I have speech in the text console but no speech
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > with Orca in the GUI desktop including the login screen.
> >> > In the
> >> > GUI
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Desktop terminal I can bring up the Orca preferences with
> >> > Orca
> >> > -r -s
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > and find that in the second tab page there is nothing in
> >> > the
> >> > Voice
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > type, Speech System or Speech synthasizer boxes.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Any suggestions how to fix this. I do have other sounds,
> >> > just no
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > speech from Orca.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >  
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Re: [DNG] Devuan 3.0 Orca Problem

[Gabe Stanton via Dng]

Sorry if I sounded like a jerk, I don't intend to be one.
Advertisements just tend to irritate me, like nails on a chalkboard.

On Fri, 2020-07-24 at 09:08 -0500, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
> It is possible to opt out of that on Juno. You'll have to dig down
> to 
> find it though and every so often, they will try to turn it back on. 
> Very sneaky . . .
> 
> On 2020-07-24 08:21, Gabe Stanton via Dng wrote:
> > Sorry I don't have anything helpful regarding orca, but that looks
> > like
> > an advertisement in your signature.
> > Are advertisements in signatures allowed in this list?
> > I think advertisements of any sort should be banned from this list.
> > I
> > don't read (and occasionally participate on) this list to be
> > advertised
> > a news source. I have enough people vying for my attention already,
> > this list should be free from that kind of stuff.
> > Gabe
> > 
> > On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 19:04 -0700, David Hoff Jr wrote:
> > > I have install Beowulf to a 32
> > >   bit Acer netbook using the text
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > installer with
> > > > speech. I have speech in the text console but no speech
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > with Orca in the GUI desktop including the login
> > > > screen. In
> > > > the
> > > > GUI
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Desktop terminal I can bring up the Orca preferences
> > > > with
> > > > Orca
> > > > -r -s
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > and find that in the second tab page there is nothing
> > > > in
> > > > the
> > > > Voice
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > type, Speech System or Speech synthasizer boxes.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Any suggestions how to fix this. I do have other
> > > > sounds,
> > > > just no
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > speech from Orca.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
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Re: [DNG] Devuan 3.0 Orca Problem

[golinux]

It is possible to opt out of that on Juno. You'll have to dig down to 
find it though and every so often, they will try to turn it back on. 
Very sneaky . . .


On 2020-07-24 08:21, Gabe Stanton via Dng wrote:

Sorry I don't have anything helpful regarding orca, but that looks like
an advertisement in your signature.
Are advertisements in signatures allowed in this list?
I think advertisements of any sort should be banned from this list. I
don't read (and occasionally participate on) this list to be advertised
a news source. I have enough people vying for my attention already,
this list should be free from that kind of stuff.
Gabe

On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 19:04 -0700, David Hoff Jr wrote:

I have install Beowulf to a 32
  bit Acer netbook using the text



> installer with
> speech. I have speech in the text console but no speech
>
>
> with Orca in the GUI desktop including the login screen. In
> the
> GUI
>
>
> Desktop terminal I can bring up the Orca preferences with
> Orca
> -r -s
>
>
> and find that in the second tab page there is nothing in
> the
> Voice
>
>
> type, Speech System or Speech synthasizer boxes.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Any suggestions how to fix this. I do have other sounds,
> just no
>
>
> speech from Orca.
>
>
>

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Re: [DNG] Devuan 3.0 Orca Problem

[Gabe Stanton via Dng]

Sorry I don't have anything helpful regarding orca, but that looks like
an advertisement in your signature.
Are advertisements in signatures allowed in this list? 
I think advertisements of any sort should be banned from this list. I
don't read (and occasionally participate on) this list to be advertised
a news source. I have enough people vying for my attention already,
this list should be free from that kind of stuff.
Gabe

On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 19:04 -0700, David Hoff Jr wrote:
> I have install Beowulf to a 32
>   bit Acer netbook using the text
>   
> 
>   
> > installer with
> > speech. I have speech in the text console but no speech
> > 
> > 
> > with Orca in the GUI desktop including the login screen. In
> > the
> > GUI
> > 
> > 
> > Desktop terminal I can bring up the Orca preferences with
> > Orca
> > -r -s
> > 
> > 
> > and find that in the second tab page there is nothing in
> > the
> > Voice
> > 
> > 
> > type, Speech System or Speech synthasizer boxes.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Any suggestions how to fix this. I do have other sounds,
> > just no
> > 
> > 
> > speech from Orca.
> > 
> > 
> >   
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Top News - Sponsored By NewserSeattle Goes Deep for Name of New NHL
> TeamJacksonville Convention Is OffAd With Biden, Obama Draws Trump
> Rebuke
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